CC Learning.

[Mewcifer.5198]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > @"TheQuickFox.3826" said:

> > CC has always meant Candy Canes to me. To any boss battle, I usually bring stacks of them, because my fellow players have great demand for them. ;)

> >

> > In other words, yes, explanation is needed. Just screaming CC is not going to bring any difference to players who do not know the abbreviation nor the concept.

>

> That is basically willful ignorance. If someone asks there is generally an explanation of what CC is. That means if someone doesn't know and doesn't ask then they have chosen to remain ignorant about the topic. You can't teach someone who doesn't want to learn.

 

If I am calling for CC and I am not seeing it happen sometimes I will try and explain what CC is really quick. Then after the event is over I will try and encourage people to do "/wiki CC" so they can learn more about what CC is and which skills have CC.

[mercury ranique.2170]

The dodge tutorial isn’t working either. I still need to explain people to not be a turret pretty often.

So it would not work. So accept that you will need to explain it over and over..

 

The only alternative would be a better tutorial. For dodging/movement I can even envision it. By giving a PvE death breakdown, with advice to move more to avoid the damage. However for cc it must be harder to put it in a tutorial. Maybe a specific thing like a hue around cc skills in battles where they are needed. A light hue for soft cc and a brighter one for hard cc. Then give the break bar the same hue when cc is needed. But point is, it will make the fight less challenging and more intuitive to succeed. Do we need such tutoring?

[Zaklex.6308]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > On the one hand, I'd say great idea (same as I've always said when something like this is suggested).

> >

> > On the other, we have several examples from LS3 and PoF where the game explains a mechanic via dialogue, provides minor puzzles requiring its use, and then people still complain that they didn't know about it when they get to the subsequent boss fight.

> >

> > So yes, ANet should provide ways for players to learn key mechanics, including breaking defiance, balling up foes, condi removal, finishers, etc. But all the same, veterans shouldn't expect that this will mean much in the long run. As the proverb says,

> > > You can give a mesmer a stun-break, but you can't make them blink.

>

> How about a button to remotely smack a ranger everytime they press the 4 key or click anywhere near a particular section of their screen? >_>

>

Are you complaining about our use of the KB skill on LB, which does not KB elites, champions or legendaries? Yes, it will KB a trash mob and a vet but I've never come across those levels with break bars, as a matter of fact I've never even seen an Elite with a break bar, and I can't knock those back with LB4...no matter how many times I try(and I make sure NOT to use when others are attacking in melee range...it annoys me too when I switch to melee).

 

 

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > On the one hand, I'd say great idea (same as I've always said when something like this is suggested).

> > >

> > > On the other, we have several examples from LS3 and PoF where the game explains a mechanic via dialogue, provides minor puzzles requiring its use, and then people still complain that they didn't know about it when they get to the subsequent boss fight.

> > >

> > > So yes, ANet should provide ways for players to learn key mechanics, including breaking defiance, balling up foes, condi removal, finishers, etc. But all the same, veterans shouldn't expect that this will mean much in the long run. As the proverb says,

> > > > You can give a mesmer a stun-break, but you can't make them blink.

> >

> > How about a button to remotely smack a ranger everytime they press the 4 key or click anywhere near a particular section of their screen? >_>

> >

> Are you complaining about our use of the KB skill on LB, which does not KB elites, champions or legendaries? Yes, it will KB a trash mob and a vet but I've never come across those levels with break bars, as a matter of fact I've never even seen an Elite with a break bar, and I can't knock those back with LB4...no matter how many times I try(and I make sure NOT to use when others are attacking in melee range...it annoys me too when I switch to melee).

>

>

 

Champion griffons in BFF have breakbars that come and go ;)

[Leviticus Lo.6178]

I think having a "learn how Crowd Control affects bosses" moment would be good to have somewhere in the storyline (as well as dodging and maybe even Combo Fields/Finishers).

 

I'm thinking at the end of the Level 40 Story arc, when the player is promoted to an official member of their Order of choice. At this point, the Order gives the player the option to accept some training to learn "new" techniques (in preparation for their next assignment), or to skip the training session so they can go ahead and select which of the minor races to assist.

 

Regardless of whether the player accepts or declines, an NPC is made available to teach these lessons at any time. Think something like setting up a test Golem, but where you can choose which lesson you want to learn.

 

**Learn about Dodging and Evasion:** Dodge through attacks and hazardous areas successfully.

1. Weapon: Dodge 3-5 weapon attacks. Melee, Short range, and Long range.

2. Areas: Dodge 3 AoE attacks. Things like Ele's Ice Shard, timed explosions, or big Cone attacks.

3. Field Course: Dodge through the hazardous fields to reach the other end of the training area.

 

**Learn about Combo Fields and Combo Finishers:** Place Combo Fields, use Combo Finishers, and create different Combinations. Training weapons are provided with Combo Finishers and Combo Fields.

1. Combo Fields: Place 3 different Combo Fields on the designated targets.

2. Combo Finishers: Use Finishers to create 5 different Combinations.

3. Combinations: The trainer requests a particular Combination effect. The player creates the Combination effect on the Target.

* Example 1 - Trainer requests Blind. The player can place a Dark Field and use a Blast or Leap Finisher, or they can place a Smoke Field and use a Projectile or Whirl Finisher.

* Example 2 - Trainer requests Burning. The player must place a Fire Field, but can use either a Projectile or Whirl Finisher.

* Example 3 - Trainer requests Area Swiftness. The player must place a Lightning Field, and use a Blast Finisher.

 

**Learn about Crowd Control:** Practice using Crowd Control against different targets. Training weapons, gadgets, and boulders are provided.

1. Movement Impairment - 10 second timer: Target A takes 6 seconds to reach the other end. Impair Target A's movement so they don't reach the other end.

2. Daze and Interruption - 10 second timer: Target B takes 3 seconds to finish channeling an ability. Prevent Target B from channeling their skill.

3. Bosses and the Defiance Bar - No timer: Target C is invulnerable to damage unless the Defiance Bar is broken. Break Target C's Defiance Bar and defeat the target. The Defiance Bar refills every 33% of Target C's Health.

 

Of course, more mechanics, techniques, and other general gameplay things could be provided in such a way as well.

 

This way, the player is given the option to learn these mechanics without becoming a tedious requirement that has to be done for every character playthrough.

[Urud.4925]

Rather then putting tutorials (that can be skipped/not read), why don't just add a simple icon/abbreviation to the description of our skills? It would be easier and less boring to detect the skills that actually have CC effect, even for very casual players that forgot which skills their profession has, or for people that want to try a new profession and don't want to bother with guides on internet.

Something like "CC" on the upper right part of the skill description:


 

Maybe with a different colour to differentiate between hard and soft CC, blue/pink, idk..

[Sarge shot Grif.6450]

Have something block the characters progress in very first story instance, force them to pick up a bundle with different kinds of CC that they can use to clear the path and continue.

 

Centaur cage for humans,.

Pathway block by broken golems for asura.

Some large animal that will knock you back if you try to walk by it and it isn't broken.

A large fallen tree that needs to be smashed for sylvari.

A busted charr tank blocking your way for charr.

[Menadena.7482]

> @"Roelski.2697" said:

> Maybe somewhere early in the personal story. Where you have to destroy a breakbar with CC to progress the story.

 

Good in theory but in practice you would need to have temporary weapons available. Not all weapons have cc (of any type) so at the early stages of the PS people doing the story steps at the right time might not even have the required weapon(s) yet.

[Biff.5312]

I wouldn't object, but I think the way things are is fine. For example, every Shatterer event you get people explaining to everyone that they need to use cc for the breakbars on the dragon and the crystals. Your idea might mean that wouldn't be necessary, but either way the message is getting to the players. If they don't pick it up by lvl 80 I'd say they're just being wilfully ignorant.

[battledrone.8315]

> @"Ardid.7203" said:

> > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > if the majority liked that stuff, they would prolly still play the game

> > as it is, theyre purposefully making expansions for a smaller and smaller playerbase

> > most of us dont get better..we just go somewhere else,

>

> I don't know your majority, but my majority still plays the game and even CC things on a daily basis. Elaine's majority was having problems with raiding, lat time we talk about it, but she said It was just a phase. It would be interesting to know how is Joe's majority doing these days... Well I'm going to feed my pet majority now, I have to hurry if I want to visit my grandma's majority before it's too late for dinner. Bye!

>

 

12 mio players? lol

[battledrone.8315]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"battledrone.8315" said:

> > if the majority liked that stuff, they would prolly still play the game

> Numbers of players always decline for any game. New joiners are always less common than leavers. A clever game studio takes that into account and tries to do things that attract fresh blood and keep things interesting for those who remain.

>

> > as it is, theyre purposefully making expansions for a smaller and smaller playerbase

> Most of PoF is setup in ways that makes things easier for the majority. Only a tiny amount of content, worked on by a fraction of the dev team, focuses on a "smaller" playerbase... and that has attracted new players as well as retained interest for veterans.

>

> > most of us dont get better..we just go somewhere else,

> What's your evidence that "most of us" do anything in particular?

> It's true that lots of people aren't interested in changing how they do things, but it's also true that lots of people want to keep being challenged. How do you know which group is larger?

 

its called common sense, i have seen the same thing happen in every mmo for 17 years: most people always go for the easy route

a good example is the last meta they added, its new content, and its hard , BUT PEOPLE STILL PLAY THE OLDER FARMS, BECAUSE THEY GIVE BETTER LOOT

case closed

[Ardid.7203]

Yet there are people who leave a game and still keeps hating it in its forums, when it would be much easier and more rewarding for everyone to just leave. I'm not going to say its common sense, but will declare it to be the absolute truth based on the anecdotal evidence of "most of us".

[battledrone.8315]

> @"Ardid.7203" said:

> Yet there are people who leave a game and still keeps hating it in its forums, when it would be much easier and more rewarding for everyone to just leave. I'm not going to say its common sense, but will declare it to be the absolute truth based on the anecdotal evidence of "most of us".

 

"everyone" would include me and anet, so that is wrong

hint: the majority of players didnt even BUY the expansions

[Ardid.7203]

I frankly can't give you more clues about the problem with your "hint".

 

Soooo... back to topic.

 

Looking for guides explaining how to break defiance bars and CC I've noticed there aren't very new ones. Most I've found seems to date from HoT period. Also most videos aren't that good, although they do the job. It seems understanding how CC and breakbars work IS quite challenging for some people. If you are used to only 11111 all the time you actually need a teacher to be able to think a little and use CC skills on time.

 

A couple examples.

 

 

I do think it would be beneficial to have training hearts, events and minigames for breakbars in early stages, if not to actually teach people how to cc directly, at least to have a place were another player can teach the mechanic with ease.