Discussion about Confusion [merged]

[SaltAndLight.4652]

> @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> Moving Confusion to have condition damage contribution ticks made it a damage-over-time condition in addition to its 'hex' style punishment of using skills. We needed to make a choice as to whether or not the condition was going to be used as spammable DOT, or rarer/shorter, with more potency. We've decided to push Confusion to be burstier and once again focus on punishing skill activation. The reason for keeping any dot component is to message that you're under the effects of the condition, so you can be informed of it without looking at your buff bar.

> With that said, we'll be moving weapons like Mirage's Axe toward Torment, rather than Confusion, as soon as the process allows.

 

Thank you for your reply and the additional information. This makes sense to me conceptually. I can get over Confusion being solely viable in PVP and not being a signature condition for PVE Mesmers. I, however, do not want to have to respec all of my ascended gear, that I just spec'd to condi for Mirage, because condi is no longer viable in PVE.

 

For PVE, the skills I that I would like to see switch from Confusion to Torment are as follows:

 

* Axes of Symmetry

* Imaginary Axes

* Mind Blast

* Ether Barrage (remove the OR, and make in apply confusion in PVP and torment in PVE)

* Confusing Images

* Magic Bullet

* Crystal Sands

* Phantasmal Whaler

* Wave of Panic

* Jaunt

 

EDIT: Confusion would not necessarily have to be replaced by Torment on all of these skills. If Torment were added as an additional condition then the DoT component and flavor could still exist. Stacks of each would need to be properly balanced of course.

 

[Bofouci.1320]

> @"BrokenGlass.9356" said:

> also, why not have confuse apply damage on application, and skill usage? in pve only?

>

> this way we get the 'son skill effect' on each stack on application, then again for all stacks on skill usage.

>

> *THIS* makes it a burst condition, AND, makes it viable in PvE

 

This is what I don't get either and we can't get a good answer apparently as the answers seem to only look at the changes from a PVP/WVW perspective. As a PVE'r I don't care about notification that i have confusion on me from another player or that confusion adds penalties for using skills when applied. Having this kind of thought process apply to the PVE side of the house makes no sense at all and if the original intention was to remove confusion from the mirage axe line and replace it with Torment then why wasn't that done before the balance was pushed to the public. Speaking of Torment what ungodly number is that going to look like to make up for the loss of confusion DOT? Furthermore, since we're not looking at separation from PVP/WVW the torment DOT has to be crap; if not, the PVP balance will be off. I'm just not seeing a solution to this problem.

[ThomasC.1056]

If I can have my say, a possibly interesting solution would be : make confusion punish *next* instead of *any* skill. It'd would somehow work like aegis : you lose the condition once you use any skill. To compensate, confusion should last fairly longer, but it might be worth considering...

[Bofouci.1320]

> @"ThomasC.1056" said:

> If I can have my say, a possibly interesting solution would be : make confusion punish *next* instead of *any* skill. It'd would somehow work like aegis : you lose the condition once you use any skill. To compensate, confusion should last fairly longer, but it might be worth considering...

 

This would only matter in PVP/WVW and as is post balance works good in those environments. The issue here is what it's done to PVE play; NPC's aren't activating skills at the rate that a person playing does therefore the damage just isn't there and can't be with this model. Pre-balance mirages could DoT down NPC's nicely but with confusion as a more skill activated oriented boon we just have to hope they attack us more.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > @"Walhalla.5473" said:

> > > @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > > The "This condition remains split between PvE and PvP/WvW" part has unfortunately caused unintended confusion.

> > >

> > > To Clarify: Condition damage contribution of the damage-over-time component of confusion has been removed from ALL formats. 'Remains split' was meant to indicate that the base damage ticks are higher in PvE still, even without condition damage contribution.

> >

> > Ok Karl. First question. Why did you do this in PvE? Especially AFTER you made that condition useful in PvE in the August 2017 Patch?

> >

> > And base damage in PvE is horrible, a damage tick less than 20 in PvE is not good, you could have unsplit the base damage and it wouldn't even matter.

>

> Moving Confusion to have condition damage contribution ticks made it a damage-over-time condition in addition to its 'hex' style punishment of using skills. We needed to make a choice as to whether or not the condition was going to be used as spammable DOT, or rarer/shorter, with more potency. We've decided to push Confusion to be burstier and once again focus on punishing skill activation. The reason for keeping any dot component is to message that you're under the effects of the condition, so you can be informed of it without looking at your buff bar.

> With that said, we'll be moving weapons like Mirage's Axe toward Torment, rather than Confusion, as soon as the process allows.

 

So when are you going to reimburse all those players that have spent so much time money and effort crafting vipers gear for mirage etc.. this is a totally ridiculous way of skill/class evolution.

Face fact this was thought purely on the side of PvP and zero focus on how this is going to effect PvE players who have put so much into condi Mesmer after you finally made it useful .. only to be kicked to the side once more in favour of your pvp push.

 

Utter garbage, unnecessary change.. totally ruined ..

[Vajra.3157]

So devs plan to move Mirage's Confusion skills towards Torment. What will cause Confusion after that? Or will it be still a split between PvP and PvE? The solution will just complicate things and make Mirage lose its uniqueness.

 

Since the reason behind the balance is largely based on the PvP aspect, why don't you just keep Confusion in PvP like how it is now, and revert it back to the pre-patch in PvE?

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Bofouci.1320" said:

> > @"BrokenGlass.9356" said:

> > also, why not have confuse apply damage on application, and skill usage? in pve only?

> >

> > this way we get the 'son skill effect' on each stack on application, then again for all stacks on skill usage.

> >

> > *THIS* makes it a burst condition, AND, makes it viable in PvE

>

> This is what I don't get either and we can't get a good answer apparently as the answers seem to only look at the changes from a PVP/WVW perspective. As a PVE'r I don't care about notification that i have confusion on me from another player or that confusion adds penalties for using skills when applied. Having this kind of thought process apply to the PVE side of the house makes no sense at all and if the original intention was to remove confusion from the mirage axe line and replace it with Torment then why wasn't that done before the balance was pushed to the public. Speaking of Torment what ungodly number is that going to look like to make up for the loss of confusion DOT? Furthermore, since we're not looking at separation from PVP/WVW the torment DOT has to be crap; if not, the PVP balance will be off. I'm just not seeing a solution to this problem.

 

Simple answer.. Torment was never on the cards to replace Confusion on the Mirage or mesmer condi in general.. this is nothing more than a knee jerk reaction cos they know, we know it's a screw up born out of lack of consideration for anything PvE once more.... but hey I am sure the whales will gladly buy some gems to rebuild once more and PvP might be a little more happy around balance, not that that is the primary issue in that area anyways.. ..hacked to death, cough . cough

[Ubi.4136]

Maybe they are adding a new class later and want IT to be the best confusion source in the game.

Maybe they are just changing mesmer to torment, so they can add confusion back later as a new elite (think guardians and tomes).

Maybe they are just confused, want you to be confused, but don't want our toons to be confused.

 

Ready for this:

The likely reason that they can't change it for pvp/wvw and leave it as is for pve - is because they have NOT separated wvw from pve yet.

So, we still have only 2 game modes...pvp and pve (remember they think wvw is pve).

1. Nerfed for pvp - check.

2. Nerfed for wvw - check.

3. Left alone for pve - nope, because wvw is still using the same ruleset.

[Bofouci.1320]

This Torment axe move doesn't sound right to me.. It's already Torment heavy with auto attack chain. Tool tips in game show axe 1 Lacerating Chop skill bleeding 3-1/s 427 damage; Ethereal Chop Torment 3-1/2s 427 damage, 636 if moving; Mirror Strikes Bleeding 10-1/4s 1,280 damage/ Torment 10-1/4s 1,280 damage, 1,908 if moving.

 

Will this too be more torment; and how do they plan to make this work in PVP/WVW since skills aren't being segragated? To be a valid option we're talking about a ton of torment. Then PVP/WVW would be out of wack again.

[Ojimaru.8970]

> @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > @"Walhalla.5473" said:

> > > @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > > The "This condition remains split between PvE and PvP/WvW" part has unfortunately caused unintended confusion.

> > >

> > > To Clarify: Condition damage contribution of the damage-over-time component of confusion has been removed from ALL formats. 'Remains split' was meant to indicate that the base damage ticks are higher in PvE still, even without condition damage contribution.

> >

> > Ok Karl. First question. Why did you do this in PvE? Especially AFTER you made that condition useful in PvE in the August 2017 Patch?

> >

> > And base damage in PvE is horrible, a damage tick less than 20 in PvE is not good, you could have unsplit the base damage and it wouldn't even matter.

>

> Moving Confusion to have condition damage contribution ticks made it a damage-over-time condition in addition to its 'hex' style punishment of using skills. We needed to make a choice as to whether or not the condition was going to be used as spammable DOT, or rarer/shorter, with more potency. We've decided to push Confusion to be burstier and once again focus on punishing skill activation. The reason for keeping any dot component is to message that you're under the effects of the condition, so you can be informed of it without looking at your buff bar.

> With that said, we'll be moving weapons like Mirage's Axe toward Torment, rather than Confusion, as soon as the process allows.

 

This doesn't really answer the core question of _why_ the Confusion has been reverted to its state before the August 2017 patch, that had finally decoupled its PVE and PVP/WVW functionality. While the redistribution of damage weightage from the DOT to on-skill-use sounds reasonable for PVP/WVW, it has never in the entire of the game's history worked for PVE, which was most likely why Torment and Confusion were finally changed last August.

 

What's worse is that you are now saying that Mesmer's will simply be deprived more of its theme by removing more sources of Confusion from its kit, just so this change can be implemented. And all you seem to be doing is replacing it with Torment, which had no change whatsoever and remains entirely separate between game modes.

 

 

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > @"Walhalla.5473" said:

> > > @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > > The "This condition remains split between PvE and PvP/WvW" part has unfortunately caused unintended confusion.

> > >

> > > To Clarify: Condition damage contribution of the damage-over-time component of confusion has been removed from ALL formats. 'Remains split' was meant to indicate that the base damage ticks are higher in PvE still, even without condition damage contribution.

> >

> > Ok Karl. First question. Why did you do this in PvE? Especially AFTER you made that condition useful in PvE in the August 2017 Patch?

> >

> > And base damage in PvE is horrible, a damage tick less than 20 in PvE is not good, you could have unsplit the base damage and it wouldn't even matter.

>

> Moving Confusion to have condition damage contribution ticks made it a damage-over-time condition in addition to its 'hex' style punishment of using skills. We needed to make a choice as to whether or not the condition was going to be used as spammable DOT, or rarer/shorter, with more potency. We've decided to push Confusion to be burstier and once again focus on punishing skill activation. The reason for keeping any dot component is to message that you're under the effects of the condition, so you can be informed of it without looking at your buff bar.

> With that said, we'll be moving weapons like Mirage's Axe toward Torment, rather than Confusion, as soon as the process allows.

 

Wow I do not like this reply. It shows you guys as being really out of touch with Confusion tbh.

 

"hex" style punishment skills do not work on PvE mobs when they rarely use skills in the first place. It only works versus other players, or mobs with very high attack rates, which are non existent in this game. Look at burn for inspiration on a bursty condition. It has a short duration, but deals a crapton of damage while you have it. If you wanted PvE confusion to be bursty, then you should have simply lowered the duration a bit on all sources, but kept it the same as it had been , or at best slightly reshuffled the damage contribution parts of confusion.

 

Moving sources of confusion over to torment don't fix this problem, especially since I can see you guys giving torment a similar fate in the future. Even if you don't though, a large part of why confusion was so dangerous on mesmers in particular was how quickly we could stack it up. Moving our confusion over to torment results in the exact same situation, extremely high stacks of a damaging condition much too easily.

[BrokenGlass.9356]

this change *hurts*

 

for those of us that use GW2 as a primary means of unwind after a long work day, to have that suddenly thrown into chaos, and be *OUT* the money spent, without even a cursory resetting of item stats, or ANY BONE THROWN TO THE PLAYERS AT ALL... is depressing.

 

like, clinically depressing.

 

im in the process of trying to figure out which light armor class can do conditions in a reasonable way. settled on condi weavver. which ISNT META. so.... while i personally dont care about that, the raid group i try to join, will require a long winded explination of how i can still do damage, even though its not as much as power weaver on a stationary target... please dont kick me, heres my kp's and li's... yadda yadda yadda.

 

i *WAS* enjoying your game. now im floundering trying to find *SOMETHING* that fits my playstyle.

 

i have a fully ascended firebrand, dont like it.... fully ascended scourge, dont like it.... fully ascended renegade.... dont like it.... fully ascended power weaver.... dont like it.

 

i *liked* (notice the past tense) my mirage.

 

@"Karl McLain.5604" i get that your world is all gw2, and so when it grows stale to you, the "need" for a change is strong. especially if you wernt happy with the confusion changes in 2017. but we dont all do gw2 40 hours a week. its not tired and old to us. the 2017 changes *were* an improvement.

 

and the ONLY people complaining are pvp folks.

 

is there some metric by which you can prove that more people were helped rather than hurt by the change?

 

cause if like 80% of the playerbase is pvp, then fine. ill eat crow. whatever.

 

but if the split is even close to 50%, then dont fuck half of us to appease the other half.

[Dwec.1852]

> @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > @"Walhalla.5473" said:

> > > @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > > The "This condition remains split between PvE and PvP/WvW" part has unfortunately caused unintended confusion.

> > >

> > > To Clarify: Condition damage contribution of the damage-over-time component of confusion has been removed from ALL formats. 'Remains split' was meant to indicate that the base damage ticks are higher in PvE still, even without condition damage contribution.

> >

> > Ok Karl. First question. Why did you do this in PvE? Especially AFTER you made that condition useful in PvE in the August 2017 Patch?

> >

> > And base damage in PvE is horrible, a damage tick less than 20 in PvE is not good, you could have unsplit the base damage and it wouldn't even matter.

>

> Moving Confusion to have condition damage contribution ticks made it a damage-over-time condition in addition to its 'hex' style punishment of using skills. We needed to make a choice as to whether or not the condition was going to be used as spammable DOT, or rarer/shorter, with more potency. We've decided to push Confusion to be burstier and once again focus on punishing skill activation. The reason for keeping any dot component is to message that you're under the effects of the condition, so you can be informed of it without looking at your buff bar.

> With that said, we'll be moving weapons like Mirage's Axe toward Torment, rather than Confusion, as soon as the process allows.

 

Hi Karl,

 

Thanks for the response it is nice to get some insight into the thought process behind these changes, at the time of this change, i am assuming the balance team were aware of what this would do to this specific weapon/build as it was one of the stronger dps meta builds. Was this discussed at any time or was the thought process more about the quality of life of the confusion condition. If this was discussed couldn't this change have been held off for PvE until the axe was reworked for the mirage at the same time to help players that are using this and avoid any backlash?

 

On another note i think the phantasm changes are excellent and the alacrity changes were very well thought out and explained. I look forward to class diversity and think this is a step in the right direction.

 

Thanks to everyone in Arenanet for your continued efforts. Remember guys nobody at Arenanet is trying to sabotage their game and not all changes are perfect overnight. Some can have unintended levels of impact and we will see what happens with time, either way my mesmer will always be my main personally.

 

Dwec

[zealex.9410]

> @"Hyper Cutter.9376" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > Confusion was just busted before this change now ot has counter play. Its up to the mesmer now to time thier skills to make sure the player will use somethig and get punished for it.

> Again, the problem is in _PVE_, where monsters attack too slowly for the damage on skill activation to matter.

 

Which i talked about in the second paragraph thanks for restating that tho.

[Bofouci.1320]

I would like to know if Crystal Sands and Jaunt are going to be reworked along with the axe skills to change from confusion to torment.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > @"Walhalla.5473" said:

> > > @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > > The "This condition remains split between PvE and PvP/WvW" part has unfortunately caused unintended confusion.

> > >

> > > To Clarify: Condition damage contribution of the damage-over-time component of confusion has been removed from ALL formats. 'Remains split' was meant to indicate that the base damage ticks are higher in PvE still, even without condition damage contribution.

> >

> > Ok Karl. First question. Why did you do this in PvE? Especially AFTER you made that condition useful in PvE in the August 2017 Patch?

> >

> > And base damage in PvE is horrible, a damage tick less than 20 in PvE is not good, you could have unsplit the base damage and it wouldn't even matter.

>

> Moving Confusion to have condition damage contribution ticks made it a damage-over-time condition in addition to its 'hex' style punishment of using skills. We needed to make a choice as to whether or not the condition was going to be used as spammable DOT, or rarer/shorter, with more potency. We've decided to push Confusion to be burstier and once again focus on punishing skill activation. The reason for keeping any dot component is to message that you're under the effects of the condition, so you can be informed of it without looking at your buff bar.

> With that said, we'll be moving weapons like Mirage's Axe toward Torment, rather than Confusion, as soon as the process allows.

 

Is it possible for the dot part to be affected by your condition dmg in only 1 game gamemode? If yes then i cant understand this as you guys end up creating more stuff that need abjusting down the line.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > @"Walhalla.5473" said:

> > > @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > > The "This condition remains split between PvE and PvP/WvW" part has unfortunately caused unintended confusion.

> > >

> > > To Clarify: Condition damage contribution of the damage-over-time component of confusion has been removed from ALL formats. 'Remains split' was meant to indicate that the base damage ticks are higher in PvE still, even without condition damage contribution.

> >

> > Ok Karl. First question. Why did you do this in PvE? Especially AFTER you made that condition useful in PvE in the August 2017 Patch?

> >

> > And base damage in PvE is horrible, a damage tick less than 20 in PvE is not good, you could have unsplit the base damage and it wouldn't even matter.

>

> Moving Confusion to have condition damage contribution ticks made it a damage-over-time condition in addition to its 'hex' style punishment of using skills. We needed to make a choice as to whether or not the condition was going to be used as spammable DOT, or rarer/shorter, with more potency. We've decided to push Confusion to be burstier and once again focus on punishing skill activation. The reason for keeping any dot component is to message that you're under the effects of the condition, so you can be informed of it without looking at your buff bar.

> With that said, we'll be moving weapons like Mirage's Axe toward Torment, rather than Confusion, as soon as the process allows.

You _have_ already made a decision on this once, when you changed confusion to its recent, pre-patch state. And you've made it because you, then, realized that the skill activation punishing aspect works well against players, but cannot be reasonably balanced when used against mobs. It cannot be used to control the mobs' behaviour, and the slow skill use requires that the damage per pulse would have to be ridiculously high (much higher than it is now) to be considered anything more than a curiosity and a flavour effect. Additionally, as far as i remember, you (plural, not singular, i don't remember who was saying what then) were also saying that the wide disparity between skill activation rates of different bosses (which is quite massive now, considering that we have bosses like MO that do not use skills at all) makes it impossible to balance the active damage component well in PvE.

 

Did something in the game change to make all those arguments invalid? Or are there any other considerations that make reverting the change in pve only a much worse choice than having to redo all confusion-causing skills and base them on other conditions (which would have to be a split from pvp modes anyway, or it would cause many additional unintended consequences in those modes)? Because anything short of changing most, if not all (no, it's not only the axe that is a problem) of confusion application effects from pve will not really work. Doing it halfway will only make the non-changed skills completely obsolete anyway.

 

[Bloodstealer.5978]

I know.. lets make Bleeding work the same way.. apply bleeds, but you don't bleed unless you move or try to swing your sword and open the artery...

Poison.. apply poison.. then sit back and watch players dodge roll and increase the poison damage as it sinks to their intestines

Burning - apply condition and wait for players to run around igniting the forests around them to cause the condition to take effect...

 

Do away with condition damage stat, no longer required, less stat clutter less build diversity just make it a blanket nerf and we can all go back to boring Power, Precision Ferocity.. everyone can be cardboard cut-out builds.. helps all those build sites out as well cos there will fewer builds to record.

 

Come to think of it nerf healing as well so that heals don't get applied until we run 100m, do a set of star jumps and bench press 80kg's .. there all healthy again.

[BrokenGlass.9356]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > > @"Walhalla.5473" said:

> > > > @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > > > The "This condition remains split between PvE and PvP/WvW" part has unfortunately caused unintended confusion.

> > > >

> > > > To Clarify: Condition damage contribution of the damage-over-time component of confusion has been removed from ALL formats. 'Remains split' was meant to indicate that the base damage ticks are higher in PvE still, even without condition damage contribution.

> > >

> > > Ok Karl. First question. Why did you do this in PvE? Especially AFTER you made that condition useful in PvE in the August 2017 Patch?

> > >

> > > And base damage in PvE is horrible, a damage tick less than 20 in PvE is not good, you could have unsplit the base damage and it wouldn't even matter.

> >

> > Moving Confusion to have condition damage contribution ticks made it a damage-over-time condition in addition to its 'hex' style punishment of using skills. We needed to make a choice as to whether or not the condition was going to be used as spammable DOT, or rarer/shorter, with more potency. We've decided to push Confusion to be burstier and once again focus on punishing skill activation. The reason for keeping any dot component is to message that you're under the effects of the condition, so you can be informed of it without looking at your buff bar.

> > With that said, we'll be moving weapons like Mirage's Axe toward Torment, rather than Confusion, as soon as the process allows.

> You _have_ already made a decision on this once, when you changed confusion to its recent, pre-patch state. And you've made it because you, then, realized that the skill activation punishing aspect works well against players, but cannot be reasonably balanced when used against mobs. It cannot be used to control the mobs' behaviour, and the slow skill use requires that the damage per pulse would have to be ridiculously high (much higher than it is now) to be considered anything more than a curiosity and a flavour effect. Additionally, as far as i remember, you were also saying that the wide disparity between skill activation rates of different bosses (even bigger now, considering that we have mobs like MO now that do not use skills at all) makes it impossible to balance the active damage component well in PvE.

>

> Did something in the game change to make all those arguments invalid? Or are there any other considerations that make reverting the change in pve only a much worse choice than having to redo all confusion-causing skills and base them on other conditions (which would have to be a split from pvp modes anyway, or it would cause many additional unintended consequences in those modes)? Because anything short of changing most, if not all (no, it's not only the axe that is a problem) of confusion application effects from pve will not really work. Doing it halfway will only make the non-changed skills completely obsolete anyway.

>

 

@"Karl McLain.5604"

 

did anyone bring up the fact that it was community outcry that led to the confusion change in august of 2017? in the staff meeting resulting in this most recent change, i mean.

 

when that was brought up, what rationalization was use to overcome the objections?

 

also, how many patches ahead are you guys? like, did you know during the recent condition redistribution patch about this confusion change? or were ALL those changes done with the question of confusion still 'up in the air, as a "burst" condi'? are you guys coding the torment on axe changes as we speak? and is that part of a patch containing all the buffs and nerfs (tempests defense....) this patch missed?

 

why the partial fixes where we have to wait for patches? wouldnt you think that the mesmer changes, and by extension the confusion changes should have waited until the concept was finished? this is just like when you left mirage alone, and even buffed it in the previous patch. obviously because you knew this change was coming.

 

can we please get a straight answer as to why you changed it to have a dot component before, and now have brought it back to launch's nearly useless state?

 

what about the state of the game changed?

 

also, what is keeping you guys from a full split between pve, and pvp/wvw? obviously you *can* split some things. so why the resistance to split *necessary* things?

 

i feel that i can speak for nearly all of the pve mesmer's when i say: "we dont care about confusion having a unique identity. we care about being good at pve in both power and condition builds."

[BrokenGlass.9356]

honestly guys, this is the fallout of having your condition damage system, AND being wrapped around the axle about unique identity.

 

know what gives a condi its unique identity? weather or not it has duration runes or sigils. and weather or not a class has duration traits for it.

 

in PvE poison is no different from bleeds, except for what you imagine about it. torment has its uses against trash. and burning is just burning.

 

its metrics like stack size, speed of application, and duration that should make each one unique. not some imaginary flavor thats already taken care of by your art team in the graphical effects that apply confuse.

 

jesus.

[Dozzer.1750]

> @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > @"Walhalla.5473" said:

> > > @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > > The "This condition remains split between PvE and PvP/WvW" part has unfortunately caused unintended confusion.

> > >

> > > To Clarify: Condition damage contribution of the damage-over-time component of confusion has been removed from ALL formats. 'Remains split' was meant to indicate that the base damage ticks are higher in PvE still, even without condition damage contribution.

> >

> > Ok Karl. First question. Why did you do this in PvE? Especially AFTER you made that condition useful in PvE in the August 2017 Patch?

> >

> > And base damage in PvE is horrible, a damage tick less than 20 in PvE is not good, you could have unsplit the base damage and it wouldn't even matter.

>

> Moving Confusion to have condition damage contribution ticks made it a damage-over-time condition in addition to its 'hex' style punishment of using skills. We needed to make a choice as to whether or not the condition was going to be used as spammable DOT, or rarer/shorter, with more potency. We've decided to push Confusion to be burstier and once again focus on punishing skill activation. The reason for keeping any dot component is to message that you're under the effects of the condition, so you can be informed of it without looking at your buff bar.

> With that said, we'll be moving weapons like Mirage's Axe toward Torment, rather than Confusion, as soon as the process allows.

 

Thanks for the update Karl. I am glad this whole topic is being looked at, although 'soon' has me a bit concerned.

 

Whilst torment is an understandable change I feel Mesmer already has a torment focused weapon in the scepter, adding axe as a second one doesn't really thrill. Also it seems odd putting torment on such a melee focused weapon as the axe. As a mirage I am meant to be the jack-in-the-box popping around the NPC not the other way around, in fact the more static they are the better really.

 

My one big request in all of this is that whatever you do please can you keep the fun in the Mirage. It's been such a refreshing change since PoF, the whole Mirage fighting style just makes me smile, so much so that I haven't touch my alts in months. Please don't kill this.

 

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > @"Walhalla.5473" said:

> > > @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > > The "This condition remains split between PvE and PvP/WvW" part has unfortunately caused unintended confusion.

> > >

> > > To Clarify: Condition damage contribution of the damage-over-time component of confusion has been removed from ALL formats. 'Remains split' was meant to indicate that the base damage ticks are higher in PvE still, even without condition damage contribution.

> >

> > Ok Karl. First question. Why did you do this in PvE? Especially AFTER you made that condition useful in PvE in the August 2017 Patch?

> >

> > And base damage in PvE is horrible, a damage tick less than 20 in PvE is not good, you could have unsplit the base damage and it wouldn't even matter.

>

> Moving Confusion to have condition damage contribution ticks made it a damage-over-time condition in addition to its 'hex' style punishment of using skills. We needed to make a choice as to whether or not the condition was going to be used as spammable DOT, or rarer/shorter, with more potency. We've decided to push Confusion to be burstier and once again focus on punishing skill activation. The reason for keeping any dot component is to message that you're under the effects of the condition, so you can be informed of it without looking at your buff bar.

> With that said, we'll be moving weapons like Mirage's Axe toward Torment, rather than Confusion, as soon as the process allows.

 

Ah, good. So releasing the nerf first was simply part of the process. Good to know! Any idea on the time frame for this update? You see I had been playing condi axe mirage exclusively the past few months and now it feels pretty broken. So I'm not too interested in playing right now until you fix this. When might we expect to see that happen? Any details available in the interim?

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"BrokenGlass.9356" said:

> i feel that i can speak for nearly all of the pve mesmer's when i say: "we dont care about confusion having a unique identity. we care about being good at pve in both power and condition builds."

 

I'd say that's a safe assumption to make. There is no way confusion can do what it's intended to do in PvE. It's a control condition...but AI does what it's going to do regardless of whether it has 0 stacks of confusion or 100. Worse, it deals pathetic damage while it fails at applying control. So, "A" for effort on attempting to make a unique condition, but you guys should probably go back to the drawing board on this idea because it simply will not work. Ever.

 

 

[Xstein.2187]

Serious question to the community. I didn't play when gw1 was around. Were hexes only used in pvp, or were they used in pve as well? If they were used in pve, why?

Seems like that's the direction they want to push it, but from only a gw2 point of view, it's impossible for me to understand why because I've only witnessed confusion being worthless in pve in this state from gw2's history.

 

p.s. also moving torment to axe rather than confusion just seems like a bandaid fix to me. Do you want, or better yet, do you think the players want a condition that's worthless in pve that is severely built in to many of a classes weapons and trait lines?

[AliamRationem.5172]

Would it be too much to ask that you guys revert this senseless change until you're ready to provide the additional changes needed to bring PvE skills that use confusion up to date? It is a really cruddy way to treat your players when you make game-breaking changes as part of a planned process and then intentionally leave everything broken for an unspecified amount of time. You knew you weren't ready to do this and you did it anyway. How about changing it back now until you're actually ready to do it the right way?

 

I am not purchasing anything else from ANet until this situation is resolved and, depending upon how this plays out, I may look elsewhere to spend my entertainment dollars. Not pleased.