The new phantasmal warden....WHY

[HelperMonkey.1056]

What sparked the change to phantasmal warden? The beauty of using focus offhand successfully was curtaining enemies together to have a phantasmal warden attack the group. Now it is single target. There is no synergy whatsoever from focus 4 to focus 5.

It was great for PvE beforehand. Now it is extremely lackluster.

Did someone in PvP cry about it or something? I haven't watched the forums in a while.

[Galeskyring.9617]

I totally agree, the warden feels disjointed on the focus with skill 4 but also feels such in addition due to the new method by which the phantoms function IE scudding after their attack to create clones, making the anti-projectile aspect of it feel next to useless as well. At least an an aoe power cleave it worked with curtain to bunch up enemy's to pool the damage but now its next to useless.

[HelperMonkey.1056]

Excellent point, I didn't even think about the projectile absorption being diminished further. Yet another reason unfortunately it has been made worse. I really hope they realized this change was a mistake. I'm already switching to sword/pistol for one of my weapon sets because the change to focus and phantoms has me cringing.

 

My favorite thing was to Curtain while casting Warden, Leap into the crowd and Blurred Frenzy. It made me feel like I had decent AoE potential

[Galeskyring.9617]

Not all of the phantoms are bad for the change, swordsman does better now and so does berserker however phantoms like duelist and warden suffer due to their core purpose being radically compromised due to the change, the warden's more then most other's. The lean to try and make mesmers shatter more but not tweak down the shatter cool downs a tad to make that so makes the purpose of the change feel half done. Warden is ruined because of it.

[bart.3687]

Wait, doesn't it shoot axes at multiple foes? I spawned it on my target yesterday at I'm pretty sure I saw axes flying to other nearby foes as well. :open_mouth:

Overall, I like it much more now. Previously, it used to die before being able to do anything, rendering the skill useless imo.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

In my opinion, a lot of the Phantasm attacks just feel lackluster, sure there is a few good one iMage for example and maybe iLock and iZerker when like fully traited and using Chroophantasma but without all of that they just dont feel like they pack enough punch for their cool down and single hit use.

[NeroBoron.7285]

Yes ist shoots axes at multiple foes, but i belive in total it only throws 12 axes, either you hit 12 times the same target or for example 3 times 4 targets. Which just sucks for an aoe skill.

 

As i mentioned already [here](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/390339/#Comment_390339 "here")

I could imagine a more lava font feeling, ground targeting, instant spawning of the phantasm, dealing damage in an aoe circle with imoblize / reflect

[bart.3687]

> @"NeroBoron.7285" said:

> Yes ist shoots axes at multiple foes, but i belive in total it only throws 12 axes, either you hit 12 times the same target or for example 3 times 4 targets. Which just sucks for an aoe skill.

>

Gotta test it out when I arrive home. That would be a little disappointing, I thought it shoots 12 axes on every nearby foe.

 

> As i mentioned already [here](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/390339/#Comment_390339 "here")

> I could imagine a more lava font feeling, ground targeting, instant spawning of the phantasm, dealing damage in an aoe circle with imoblize / reflect

 

That would be great update for Temporal Curtain instead imo. Make it a circle ground target aoe that deals damage and inflicts cripple on enemies in radius, and gives healing + swiftness to allies. That would be cool.

iWarden as ground target ability would result in focus having two ground targets, which would be clunky to my mind.

 

[NeroBoron.7285]

I just testet it in gendarran with, yep 12 shots in total, not scaling with the amount of enemies.

[bart.3687]

> @"NeroBoron.7285" said:

> I just testet it in gendarran with, yep 12 shots in total, not scaling with the amount of enemies.

 

That's poor. Now I'm wondering even more why it has 20 sec CD. It either needs to shoot 12 axes on every enemy or have reduced cd to like 15 secs untraited. Or both lol.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"bart.3687" said:

> > @"NeroBoron.7285" said:

> > I just testet it in gendarran with, yep 12 shots in total, not scaling with the amount of enemies.

>

> That's poor. Now I'm wondering even more why it has 20 sec CD. It either needs to shoot 12 axes on every enemy or have reduced cd to like 15 secs untraited. Or both lol.

 

Focus needs some attention regardless as I think it’s one of our most underperforming off hands we have currently. I can’t speak about shield as I disliked it from the get go.

 

[Wondrouswall.7169]

Hope they revert Warden back to before with cleave instead of firing axes.

[apharma.3741]

I think the warden would be better if it could be summoned on the ground so you can place it between you and what's shooting you so it blocks/reflects properly but that would make it a very rare exception of a phantasm.

[flog.3485]

I don't know what you are talking about: the rotation of warden is pretty much the same. Come close to your target(s), put down the curtain and press 5 while activating 4 again. The mobs are stacked and the warden will take the aggro while attacking every mobs you pulled from warden 4. Exactly like before the balance patch.

 

The only thing that changed is that you need to come a bit closer to your targets.

[Zoser.7245]

The big difference after testing is that, **he appears near you and then jump/teleport to a calculated position between you and your enemies depending where they are in relation to you and your target, not on your target**, plus before the patch, he was an AoE phantasm doing Damage (12x) against 3 targets in his damaging area or in other words he hit three enemies at the same time 12 times each 12x3= 36 hits in total. **Now he is a pseudo single target phantasm or a pseudo aoe one...**, he throws a single target axe or perform his melee animation hitting only 12 times random enemies or a single one inside his range 12x1 = 12 hits in total. **A big nerf in total damage against multiple objectives**. They increased the damage 22% against a single enemy, but it is a diluted damage between several enemies. Use it against a group of mobs spreaded, or goto the Heart of the Mists, where is the golem in movement, put yourself far from the static golems and select one as your target, when the golem that moves comes near you, or at some distance cast your warden, try it at different positions of the golem.

 

We have lost his real AoE, and now often, how he starts throwing the axes here and there over the enemies ... usually ends doing nothing relevant for your when he should has focused on one of your enemies and kill it or better kill 3 like before, an enemy killed doesn't hit you anymore... you know. But what we have now is a pseudo single target phantasm, imagine... It doesn't matter if you are in the mid of a group and cast it, he'll only hit a single enemy with each axe.

[flog.3485]

By design it is a defensive phantasm. The current iteration is imo way better for two reasons:

 

-the light combo field are now much more consistent because you don't have to aim your curtain skill 4 at long range like before.

-Now let's look at the utility. Untraited it blocks projectile, traited it reflects projectile. What is the point of having this sort of utility if the phantasm spawns so far away from you ?

[Zoser.7245]

> @"flog.3485" said:

> By design it is a defensive phantasm. The current iteration is imo way better for two reasons:

>

> -the light combo field are now much more consistent because you don't have to aim your curtain skill 4 at long range like before.

> -Now let's look at the utility. Untraited it blocks projectile, traited it reflects projectile. What is the point of having this sort of utility if the phantasm spawns so far away from you ?

 

Because now depending of the distance, you need to run to the warden's dome to avoid damage from your target, examples:

 

- Before, he spawned at your target absorbing or reflecting his projectiles till your enemy run/dodge and and leave the area or kill it. Now he spawns between you and your enemies, as not all projectiles fly to you in a straight line, do an arc and fly about the dome, or they can be in an higher position/terrain, so you could receive damage from your target.

 

- Another example is the siege and defenders on the walls in wvw. Now you can't cast your warden about them to destroy the abandoned siege or kill defenders on the walls, and when the siege is firing you, you'll receive the damage till you reach the dome, because of course your warden will be now unusefull less if they are as noob to target your warden instead you till you reach the dome.

 

All depends of the situation, of course, but my feeling is that we have lost a lot more that anything else, globally, including it's old AoE capability/damage, but improved defensively as long as you have the dome close by.

[trooper.2650]

What I like now is that it is easier to hide inside the dome, whereas before the target could just move away from it. Often, it used to spawn even behind the target, making it useless.

Now, cast it, move inside it and stay ranged with scepter for example, so you are nice and safe for its duration.

 

I'm ok with the change tbh

[Imperadordf.2687]

The only thing that made me sad was removing the Immobilize. Not being able to immobilize Charged Souls hit me hard. :pensive:

[trooper.2650]

> @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> The only thing that made me sad was removing the Immobilize. Not being able to immobilize Charged Souls hit me hard. :pensive:

 

Yep. The immobilize was a nice addition which made the weapon an almost viable choice for pvp too, at least in low brackets

[Zenith.7301]

It's funny that what has gimped power revenant thoroughly in Unrelenting Assault and Precision Strike has been expanded onto mesmer...why...

[zealex.9410]

> @"HelperMonkey.1056" said:

> What sparked the change to phantasmal warden? The beauty of using focus offhand successfully was curtaining enemies together to have a phantasmal warden attack the group. Now it is single target. There is no synergy whatsoever from focus 4 to focus 5.

> It was great for PvE beforehand. Now it is extremely lackluster.

> Did someone in PvP cry about it or something? I haven't watched the forums in a while.

 

W8 its single target? That doesnt make sense considering what they changed it into lol. I hope this will be fixed.

[HelperMonkey.1056]

> @"flog.3485" said:

> I don't know what you are talking about: the rotation of warden is pretty much the same. Come close to your target(s), put down the curtain and press 5 while activating 4 again. The mobs are stacked and the warden will take the aggro while attacking every mobs you pulled from warden 4. Exactly like before the balance patch.

>

> The only thing that changed is that you need to come a bit closer to your targets.

 

Are we really testing the same skill? The attack is far from the same before the patch.

 

Before, using curtain with the warden would allow it to attack the group of mobs using cleave damage - the same damage for each mob in the group. Now the damage is *split* between the group or otherwise singular - therefore making the damage aspect of the skill have no synergy w/ curtain since pulling mobs together was to benefit from the cleave. Yes, it still has utility when you pull the projectile-firing mobs together allowing the warden to absorb (or reflect if traited) but anyone can easily do the same pre-patch if they actually moved into the warden and followed it, if need be, should it move between attacks.

 

[flog.3485]

> @"HelperMonkey.1056" said:

> > @"flog.3485" said:

> > I don't know what you are talking about: the rotation of warden is pretty much the same. Come close to your target(s), put down the curtain and press 5 while activating 4 again. The mobs are stacked and the warden will take the aggro while attacking every mobs you pulled from warden 4. Exactly like before the balance patch.

> >

> > The only thing that changed is that you need to come a bit closer to your targets.

>

> Are we really testing the same skill? The attack is far from the same before the patch.

>

> Before, using curtain with the warden would allow it to attack the group of mobs using cleave damage - the same damage for each mob in the group. Now the damage is *split* between the group or otherwise singular - therefore making the damage aspect of the skill have no synergy w/ curtain since pulling mobs together was to benefit from the cleave. Yes, it still has utility when you pull the projectile-firing mobs together allowing the warden to absorb (or reflect if traited) but anyone can easily do the same pre-patch if they actually moved into the warden and followed it, if need be, should it move between attacks.

>

 

Yes the damage is split but it doesn't make it less efficient to be useful at killing mobs. And when properly traited I would like to point out it is more powerful than before I would say.

 

Another thing that happen before the patch as well. You would summon the warden and then someone push the target away from the warden range. Now the warden will chase the target because the devs actually increased its movement speed when the mob goes away from its attack range.

 

I am happy to trade some of its base damage cleave if I can make it more powerful trough traits with an increased movement utility.