Buying and Selling "Runs"

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > @ Sojourner

> >

> > You missed the point.. they don't get help doing it.. its done for them and they just buy a kill or a chest.. that is not an achievement.

> > It obviously does mean something to them.. otherwise why buy the run in the first place.. that right there makes your whole point moot.

> > As for me accomplishing stuff.. no wrong again.. I don't expect to accomplish the raids achievs, I don't profess to be a raid specialist, but then again I am not so desperate for it that I go pay for the final chest or the final kill of a boss.

> > That said it's about why the content was developed.. because players wanted something more challenging, higher level of skill/teamwork. That right there is why ANET allowing runs to be bought makes it a joke and invalidates the efforts of the devs to bring something to us.

> > As for your attempt at an insult.... maybe grow up a little if you can't hold discussion without resorting trying to be a tryhard.

>

> But it's like this in every MMO. I mean I know people who couldn't do certain bosses in certain games and asked their kids to do it for them. In Guild Wars 1, there were people who regularly sold specific runs as well. It's been going on for 10 years.

>

> How many people beat Liadri using a life force steal build that was eventually fixed. I had to beat Liadri without that after the fact, because I didn't know about that build at the time people used it. It doesn't make them better. It doesn't make the Liadri title more valuable or less valuable. It makes the title mean less over all. But there's no way anyone can know that someone's kid or neighbor didn't sit down and get it for them either. Or they didn't give their password to a friend or guildie. There's simply no way to know.

>

> What your title means, over all, depends on everyone playing games like this honestly. It's not an Olympic Sport and Liadri is solo content. To a lot of people cheating on that means very little. I might have used the life steal build but only became aware of it when they fixed it. I wanted the mini but I didn't enjoy the content. This year I buckled down and did it with a thief build. I STILL didn't enjoy the content. It wasn't fun for me. It was annoying and stressful and I don't feel like I accomplished anything except jumping through a hoop.

>

> I'd like legendary armor. But I don't enjoy raiding. So I won't have it, unless I pay for it, which I've yet to do. You can say well, too bad it's part of the game. But I bought this game, after some research, because raids weren't in it, and that kind of content was few and far between. I have 19 legendary weapons, and I'm working on my 20th. But I enjoy all the content that is required to get to that point. I don't like coordinating with 9 other people at their convenience or schedule to get stuff done. Not my thing and never has been.

>

> I left Rift because the end game, when I played anyway, funneled me into raids with no real option to to do anything else. Guild Wars 2 isn't like that. But there are not objects in the game I can't get without completely changing how I play and unfortunately it's not the game I signed on for. Still refuse to pay for raids though.

 

Geeps.. what Necromancer brought this thread back to life....

 

Anyhows.. whatever floats players boats I say, if ANET allow it then it's there to be abused I guess. personally I think it's a silly thing to allow and kind of invalidates the work put into to develop anything challenging, but hey if players are silly enough to pay the coin then that's on them.

I guess ANET allow it because 1 - it's a good gold sink, 2 - it likely promotes gem sales, 3 - they can't be bothered to manage the LFG system. However I would also guess goldsellers have done/are doing well out of it so there are winners and losers like in everything.

 

As for it being a GW1 thing.. yes I know, I played, still play it. Many MMO's I play/have played look more downward on the service and act on it where necessary.

 

At the end of the day it's each to their own, safe in the knowledge that ANET couldn't care less about it so get the CC and buy them gems :)

[Renoaku.4189]

Yeah it's an old post I am just rather confused after seeing and reading it.

 

It says "RMT" is illegal as in most games, but.

 

. Bit Coin is not a real world currency it's a digital currency.

. Trading other Assets IRL for currency isn't real money.

 

**Selling your Real Life time, to play games with people who pay outside should not be illegal as long as not advertised in the game itself in any form (Don't ask don't tell.)**

 

**The biggest concern is what if I bought 8000 Gems, and gave away like 4k Gold to a friend or some random stranger, what are the chances they or I would get ban assuming there is no charge-back, and then going back to runs if I run someone through a dungeon, and they give me currency that they obtained illegal through some method would I have to worry about that, assuming that people don't pay more than 200G per run anyways if that.**

 

^ Just trying to keep my account in the clear and after seeing this and a previous experience with a horrid company that life bans members who receive currency that comes from any illegal source even if the person accepting the trade had absolutely no knowledge the other user did anything that violated the games rules.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Renoaku.4189" said:

> Selling your Real Life time, to play games with people who pay outside should not be illegal as long as not advertised in the game itself in any form (Don't ask don't tell.)

ANet sells entertainment in a specific game universe. Using resources outside that world undermines the game, because it turns it into an external transaction. Or in other words: if you want stuff in the game, play the game.

 

 

>

> The biggest concern is what if I bought 8000 Gems, and gave away like 4k Gold to a friend or some random stranger, what are the chances they or I would get ban assuming there is no charge-back, and then going back to runs if I run someone through a dungeon, and they give me currency that they obtained illegal through some method would I have to worry about that, assuming that people don't pay more than 200G per run anyways if that.

If you buy gems from ANet (or an official retailer), convert to gold, and distribute that, it's perfectly fine.

 

If someone gives you illicitly earned items or currency, then those items would be removed from your account, regardless of the reason for the transaction. That's the same as in real life: if you get paid with counterfeit money, then your skritt-out-of-luck, because you can't keep the counterfeit and no one is going to refund you. You won't be in any other sort of trouble, unless there's a pattern of you accepting illicit rewards (and that pattern could be a single transaction, if it's large enough or the source was egregious enough, e.g. all of the contents of a stolen account).

 

 

> Just trying to keep my account in the clear and after seeing this and a previous experience with a horrid company that life bans members who receive currency that comes from any illegal source even if the person accepting the trade had absolutely no knowledge the other user did anything that violated the games rules.

 

The easiest way to be sure that you're not at risk is to never accept items/currency from _anyone_, including friends. There's never a way to be sure of what they do on their side of the internet. There are reasonable and low risk variations from that stance... and less reasonable and riskier ones; it's up to you to decide how much you're willing to risk.

 

However, the idea that your account is _likely_ to be irrevocably harmed by doing the occasional trade or selling runs isn't warranted. There are many, many people who sell raids, sell CM, and sell items via the gray market without any trouble at all.

[Edgy McEdgelord.4790]

Seemingly my previous comment was too harsh on people that are currently being excluded from raid content due to skill barriers. I hereby apologize to everyone stuck in open world that I offended by saying the status quo might not be that bad as you always put it. Psh.

[Vayne.8563]

> @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > > @ Sojourner

> > >

> > > You missed the point.. they don't get help doing it.. its done for them and they just buy a kill or a chest.. that is not an achievement.

> > > It obviously does mean something to them.. otherwise why buy the run in the first place.. that right there makes your whole point moot.

> > > As for me accomplishing stuff.. no wrong again.. I don't expect to accomplish the raids achievs, I don't profess to be a raid specialist, but then again I am not so desperate for it that I go pay for the final chest or the final kill of a boss.

> > > That said it's about why the content was developed.. because players wanted something more challenging, higher level of skill/teamwork. That right there is why ANET allowing runs to be bought makes it a joke and invalidates the efforts of the devs to bring something to us.

> > > As for your attempt at an insult.... maybe grow up a little if you can't hold discussion without resorting trying to be a tryhard.

> >

> > But it's like this in every MMO. I mean I know people who couldn't do certain bosses in certain games and asked their kids to do it for them. In Guild Wars 1, there were people who regularly sold specific runs as well. It's been going on for 10 years.

> >

> > How many people beat Liadri using a life force steal build that was eventually fixed. I had to beat Liadri without that after the fact, because I didn't know about that build at the time people used it. It doesn't make them better. It doesn't make the Liadri title more valuable or less valuable. It makes the title mean less over all. But there's no way anyone can know that someone's kid or neighbor didn't sit down and get it for them either. Or they didn't give their password to a friend or guildie. There's simply no way to know.

> >

> > What your title means, over all, depends on everyone playing games like this honestly. It's not an Olympic Sport and Liadri is solo content. To a lot of people cheating on that means very little. I might have used the life steal build but only became aware of it when they fixed it. I wanted the mini but I didn't enjoy the content. This year I buckled down and did it with a thief build. I STILL didn't enjoy the content. It wasn't fun for me. It was annoying and stressful and I don't feel like I accomplished anything except jumping through a hoop.

> >

> > I'd like legendary armor. But I don't enjoy raiding. So I won't have it, unless I pay for it, which I've yet to do. You can say well, too bad it's part of the game. But I bought this game, after some research, because raids weren't in it, and that kind of content was few and far between. I have 19 legendary weapons, and I'm working on my 20th. But I enjoy all the content that is required to get to that point. I don't like coordinating with 9 other people at their convenience or schedule to get stuff done. Not my thing and never has been.

> >

> > I left Rift because the end game, when I played anyway, funneled me into raids with no real option to to do anything else. Guild Wars 2 isn't like that. But there are not objects in the game I can't get without completely changing how I play and unfortunately it's not the game I signed on for. Still refuse to pay for raids though.

>

> Geeps.. what Necromancer brought this thread back to life....

>

> Anyhows.. whatever floats players boats I say, if ANET allow it then it's there to be abused I guess. personally I think it's a silly thing to allow and kind of invalidates the work put into to develop anything challenging, but hey if players are silly enough to pay the coin then that's on them.

> I guess ANET allow it because 1 - it's a good gold sink, 2 - it likely promotes gem sales, 3 - they can't be bothered to manage the LFG system. However I would also guess goldsellers have done/are doing well out of it so there are winners and losers like in everything.

>

> As for it being a GW1 thing.. yes I know, I played, still play it. Many MMO's I play/have played look more downward on the service and act on it where necessary.

>

> At the end of the day it's each to their own, safe in the knowledge that ANET couldn't care less about it so get the CC and buy them gems :)

 

I buy gems all the time, but I never convert them to gold. Nor do I need to, it's easy to make gold in the game. My issue is there's no protection buying a run, so I'm not going to do it. Anet doesn't support it, they simply don't oppose it. That's very different than saying they're okay with it.

[Talindra.4958]

Does that mean seller acc is at risk if the fund they receive is not coming from a normal clean channel .. there's no way for them to know..

From what I can understand basically the advice is not to buy or sell runs.

If there's an in game way for seller and buyer to be able to pre-register the run..and all recorded well and truly..mutually and legally accepted..If the fund was a fraud, at least seller account is protected while paid fund removed. Buyer to accept full consequences.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Talindra.4958" said:

> Does that mean seller acc is at risk if the fund they receive is not coming from a normal clean channel .. there's no way for them to know..

> From what I can understand basically the advice is not to buy or sell runs.

> If there's an in game way for seller and buyer to be able to pre-register the run..and all recorded well and truly..mutually and legally accepted..If the fund was a fraud, at least seller account is protected while paid fund removed. Buyer to accept full consequences.

 

Both parties accounts are at risk.

 

@"Vayne.8563" I never said they supported it, they have stated previously the risks involved in selling and buying of spots/runs.

I too buy gems and never convert, neither do I buy or sell runs for achievs, I see no point in buying a product and then cheat my way through it, but that's just me.

 

But still they allow it unopposed, whilst at the same time stating that the LFG system is not to be used for buying or selling of items, currency etc or advertising guild rec etc.. yet they have no issue with this practice thus creating a double standard... but they do not support the practice.

 

This double standard has benefits for ANET that likely outway the issues that come with it, hence why it is allowed but not supported.

[Vayne.8563]

> @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > Does that mean seller acc is at risk if the fund they receive is not coming from a normal clean channel .. there's no way for them to know..

> > From what I can understand basically the advice is not to buy or sell runs.

> > If there's an in game way for seller and buyer to be able to pre-register the run..and all recorded well and truly..mutually and legally accepted..If the fund was a fraud, at least seller account is protected while paid fund removed. Buyer to accept full consequences.

>

> Both parties accounts are at risk.

>

> @"Vayne.8563" I never said they supported it, they have stated previously the risks involved in selling and buying of spots/runs.

> I too buy gems and never concert, neither do I buy or sell runs for achievs, I see no point in buying a product and then cheat my way through it, but that's just me.

>

> But still they allow it unopposed, whilst at the same time stating that the LFG system is not to be used for buying or selling of items, currency etc or advertising guild rec etc.. yet they have no issue with this practice thus creating a double standard... but they do not support the practice.

>

> This double standard has benefits for ANET that likely outway the issues that come with it, hence why it is allowed but not supported.

 

Okay, so you're saying, if I'm not mistaking you, that they're allowing this because it promotes the sale of gems to convert to cash. Nice theory.

 

Of course they also allowed it in Guild Wars 1 for as long as I can remember, which netted them no benefit at all. I know it's all cool and stuff to assume greed is the motive for pretty much everything companies do, but you know, in Guild Wars 1 it probably promoted people going to gold sellers, which is bad for the game, and they still allowed it.

 

It might simply be that it's impossible to enforce and would add a ton of customer service tickets about deals made by players, some of which would be made on voice rather than in game. They don't get involved in guild conflicts or deals between players of any kind, because they're simply not equipped to do deal with it. That's far more likely than what you're implying, particularly since they allowed it all along even with the profit motive didn't exist.

[Renoaku.4189]

I mean if they didn't want people selling runs they could just remove the ability to gift, or give currency to anyone all together.

 

No company should ban a persons account even if they accept a million gold from someone doing something illegal without the knowledge, (Removal of currency) absolutely assuming it was obtained by the party who gave it illegally, just reverse the transactions if any items traded.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Renoaku.4189" said:

> I mean if they didn't want people selling runs they could just remove the ability to gift, or give currency to anyone all together.

>

> No company should ban a persons account even if they accept a million gold from someone doing something illegal without the knowledge, (Removal of currency) absolutely assuming it was obtained by the party who gave it illegally, just reverse the transactions if any items traded.

 

No they wont reverse the transaction the gold you get for said item is deleted no item returned.

If you buy an item from a hack the item will be destroyed no gold returned.

 

Why should they encurage people to trade outside their trading post?

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"Blocki.4931" said:

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > They should of made raids like gw1. No achievements for raids, no legendary armor, just some type of currency that is dropped in the raid that is used to buy items which can be sold on the market to other players. Then nobody would buy runs, theyd just buy the items, could even make the legendary armor buyable. Everyone wins.

>

> "Here, have this content far beyond anything else in the game but you get no rewards for it"

>

> What could go wrong

 

Ironically, it would get most of itself right. If theres little to no incentive to farm it, then people won't cheese it because its still a waste of time. But what lump is pointing out is that making the tokens tradable on the market/TP eliminates the need for messing with accounts, because the currency/items they need are NOT account bound in nature. Like how in making ascended gear, you can process T2-T5 mats to make Deldrimor Ingots, but the ingots themselves can be freely traded between players with no abnormal restrictions. But when making legendary armor, you need Provisoner Tokens, Legendary Insights, and a set of collections that requires completing the majority of Raid Wings from HOT; all of which the player has to accomplish on their account themselves, and CAN NOT get these externally. Gen 2 Legendary weapons have similar problems due to them being account bound; but were nowhere near as aggressive a grind as Legendary armor ended up being.

 

Now compare that to the highest end armor in GW1, the Elite armor series (Obsidian, Luxon, Kurzik, Vabbian, etc) all of which required difficult to obtain materials, but nearly all of which could be traded for between players, or via the Rare material trader (a proto-TP merchant). Getting the armor required gather/crafting (via NPCs) the materials needed, and then presenting them to the Armor Vendor. The absolute worst case scenario is paying for an escort to clear FoW or UW to talk to the vendor that will make the armor.... otherwise you can just trade for what you need.

 

Because of how the game did things, the selling of services were extremely narrow of a market, and rarely needed to be done more then once or twice per character. Since the materials from these runs are tradable, they simply sell the materials, rather then sell the run. A Droks run only need to get the character the WP so they can fast travel themselves. For Obby armor, the only unavoidable requirement is clearing FOW once in order to talk to the Forgeman; again, only needing to be done once per char for the armor set.

 

Now compare that to a GW2 Raid, where you only get 1 per raid boss kill, 3 per wing (and charged per section), 17 per week max due to the number of raids currently available. You need 150 for the FIRST set of armor, and 300 each for each subsequent set. Thats a LOT of runs that a player would have to be carried through to buy their way to an armor set. And unlike trading materials, it costs the buyer time, runs the risk of failure or scams, and can only be done by being present during the whole thing.

 

GW1: Do run, sell the loot to traders, or trade to players. Only has 2 functions: Cosmetics and HOM Achievements (the latter of which didn't matter until GW2 gave exclusive rewards for it)

GW2: Drag player through multiple runs over multiple weeks, do multiple transactions, none of which can be secured other then a pure "trust system", and has to be done for the account to even be eligible for that set of armor.

 

PvP/WvW Armor is far less complicated, but I doubt thats stopped things like kill trading, match manipulation, or other cheesey methods to simply farm the pips due to their "participation trophy" nature. And you'd think "just doing the game mode" is low effort enough; more then enough players are too lazy (and/or hostile toward PvP) to maintain activity to keep the pips rolling. This incentive system is flat out broken, because there is NO straight forward method for exchanging things of value (ie mats, coins, or recycling drops) that they collect/obtain via other methods, for said tokens. So obviously, players are going to try and bypass this as best as they can figure out.

 

 

Other then the usual spike in trade activity and initial unmet demand driving prices up, which is typical whenever they add a new gold sink to the game...... there is NO downsides to this so long as the tokens/materials coming out of Raids are being farmed at a reliable rate. The gold sink functions as intended, raiders can convert their spoils into gold for other things, players aren't forced to create these under the tables the deals (and all the problems that come with it), and the TP being an intermediary adds a Dev targetable buffer and damage control avenue against fraudulent activities.

The only reason Anet won't do this, is because their goal is to reach a target metric in player behavior..... rewards are just the bait to lure players into the mode, and the grind/time gates are to force them to stay there a long as they think is possible to get what they want. Psychological trap on multiple fronts, and addresses one issue while completely ignoring another much more important one. On the one hand, they needed bait players into the competitive modes.... and PvE players only respond to reward incentives. On the other, the players have little incentive to acclimate to the game mode, and try to "fix the problem" of being there like they would any other farming situation..... the make the farm more efficient, and require less effort. Not enough players learn to enjoy the game mode; and often with good reason, as all of the competitive modes suffer from very damaging flaws that make modes incapable of properly self-sustaining a healthy population.

 

The myriad of conditions in the state of the game make very high end crafting/achievement projects too desirable for the wrong reasons; and thus players are treating the requirements as _barriers to be dismantled_, rather then tasks to be completed to achieve their goal.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

> > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > > Does that mean seller acc is at risk if the fund they receive is not coming from a normal clean channel .. there's no way for them to know..

> > > From what I can understand basically the advice is not to buy or sell runs.

> > > If there's an in game way for seller and buyer to be able to pre-register the run..and all recorded well and truly..mutually and legally accepted..If the fund was a fraud, at least seller account is protected while paid fund removed. Buyer to accept full consequences.

> >

> > Both parties accounts are at risk.

> >

> > @"Vayne.8563" I never said they supported it, they have stated previously the risks involved in selling and buying of spots/runs.

> > I too buy gems and never concert, neither do I buy or sell runs for achievs, I see no point in buying a product and then cheat my way through it, but that's just me.

> >

> > But still they allow it unopposed, whilst at the same time stating that the LFG system is not to be used for buying or selling of items, currency etc or advertising guild rec etc.. yet they have no issue with this practice thus creating a double standard... but they do not support the practice.

> >

> > This double standard has benefits for ANET that likely outway the issues that come with it, hence why it is allowed but not supported.

>

> Okay, so you're saying, if I'm not mistaking you, that they're allowing this because it promotes the sale of gems to convert to cash. Nice theory.

>

> Of course they also allowed it in Guild Wars 1 for as long as I can remember, which netted them no benefit at all. I know it's all cool and stuff to assume greed is the motive for pretty much everything companies do, but you know, in Guild Wars 1 it probably promoted people going to gold sellers, which is bad for the game, and they still allowed it.

>

> It might simply be that it's impossible to enforce and would add a ton of customer service tickets about deals made by players, some of which would be made on voice rather than in game. They don't get involved in guild conflicts or deals between players of any kind, because they're simply not equipped to do deal with it. That's far more likely than what you're implying, particularly since they allowed it all along even with the profit motive didn't exist.

 

Stop trying to put words into mouths ..

It's not about allowing it because it promotes gem sales, but its a side effect of not disallowing it is all.

As I said I am a long time GW1 player and know it happened. Its a practice that is older than the hills, but times have changed since then. GW2 has an in game service that facilitates buying of gems and converting to gold.. GW1 did not. So by allowing an unsupported service does bring benefits for sure and likely out ways the issues the service has and will still cause and yes as I said, ANET likely does not want to have to deal with all those tickets .. I am glad we can agree on that.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

If people are trying to pay/trade for others to complete the content for them at an alarming rate, then you need to come to the conclusion that there might be something wrong with the content in terms of accessibility.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> If people are trying to pay/trade for others to complete the content for them at an alarming rate, then you need to come to the conclusion that there might be something wrong with the content in terms of accessibility.

 

Not necessarily. Some people have more coin than time to spend. Some don't.

[Renoaku.4189]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"Renoaku.4189" said:

> > I mean if they didn't want people selling runs they could just remove the ability to gift, or give currency to anyone all together.

> >

> > No company should ban a persons account even if they accept a million gold from someone doing something illegal without the knowledge, (Removal of currency) absolutely assuming it was obtained by the party who gave it illegally, just reverse the transactions if any items traded.

>

> No they wont reverse the transaction the gold you get for said item is deleted no item returned.

> If you buy an item from a hack the item will be destroyed no gold returned.

>

> Why should they encurage people to trade outside their trading post?

 

Well if a game allows player to player trading, or Trading through the mail for example then a transaction is legal.

 

For example if A player named "Bob" sells an item through a player to player transaction, and Player B trades gold they purchased from a gold sellers site or commit fraud, then Bob should not get into trouble, and the transaction should either be cancelled if they are not allowed to keep gold the item should be returned if the gold is deleted.

 

Same thing with Runs, if a person saves evidence of a player asking for a run, and a player agrees to run a person for in-game currency as long as it is within the chat-logs of a game then it is a valid transaction, and a player should not be banned just for accepting currency for a run if another person did a crime without their knowledge.

 

There is a difference between going to a 3rd party site and buying like millions of in-game currency obviously **But if Guild Wars 2 has a problem with people selling runs, or trading player 2 player then by all means remove it from the game if the GM's cannot make trading 100% Safe** Unless Bob is involved in a malicious transaction knowingly they should not get banned, or have transactions containing items deleted if currency is removed.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Renoaku.4189" said:

> > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > @"Renoaku.4189" said:

> > > I mean if they didn't want people selling runs they could just remove the ability to gift, or give currency to anyone all together.

> > >

> > > No company should ban a persons account even if they accept a million gold from someone doing something illegal without the knowledge, (Removal of currency) absolutely assuming it was obtained by the party who gave it illegally, just reverse the transactions if any items traded.

> >

> > No they wont reverse the transaction the gold you get for said item is deleted no item returned.

> > If you buy an item from a hack the item will be destroyed no gold returned.

> >

> > Why should they encurage people to trade outside their trading post?

>

> Well if a game allows player to player trading, or Trading through the mail for example then a transaction is legal.

>

> For example if A player named "Bob" sells an item through a player to player transaction, and Player B trades gold they purchased from a gold sellers site or commit fraud, then Bob should not get into trouble, and the transaction should either be cancelled if they are not allowed to keep gold the item should be returned if the gold is deleted.

>

> Same thing with Runs, if a person saves evidence of a player asking for a run, and a player agrees to run a person for in-game currency as long as it is within the chat-logs of a game then it is a valid transaction, and a player should not be banned just for accepting currency for a run if another person did a crime without their knowledge.

>

> There is a difference between going to a 3rd party site and buying like millions of in-game currency obviously **But if Guild Wars 2 has a problem with people selling runs, or trading player 2 player then by all means remove it from the game if the GM's cannot make trading 100% Safe** Unless Bob is involved in a malicious transaction knowingly they should not get banned, or have transactions containing items deleted if currency is removed.

 

Dident say they would get banned for accepting illegaly bought currency just that said currency would be deleted from the sellers account.

[Eloc Freidon.5692]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > If people are trying to pay/trade for others to complete the content for them at an alarming rate, then you need to come to the conclusion that there might be something wrong with the content in terms of accessibility.

>

> Not necessarily. Some people have more coin than time to spend. Some don't.

 

That's irrelevant since the issue is that its becoming such a problem the devs have to address it publicly. I once again point out "at an alarming rate".

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @"Eloc Freidon.5692" said:

> > > If people are trying to pay/trade for others to complete the content for them at an alarming rate, then you need to come to the conclusion that there might be something wrong with the content in terms of accessibility.

> >

> > Not necessarily. Some people have more coin than time to spend. Some don't.

>

> That's irrelevant since the issue is that its becoming such a problem the devs have to address it publicly. I once again point out "at an alarming rate".

 

What exactly is the problem that the devs are addressing publicly? What is this "alarming rate"? Before raids, people sold fractal runs. Almost since raids began, people have been selling runs. If anything, the fact that raids can be sold suggest that they might be too easy, since it means only 6-8 people are required, not 10.

 

In some ways, raids are easier (for some roles) than fractals. What makes raids tricky is that it takes time for most players to get the hang of it and getting 10 people organized is always challenging. So of course, people with lots of gold who want the rewards are going to be willing to spend on runs. And of course, people who can speed clear with fewer than 10 are going to sell.

[Renoaku.4189]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"Renoaku.4189" said:

> > > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > > @"Renoaku.4189" said:

> > > > I mean if they didn't want people selling runs they could just remove the ability to gift, or give currency to anyone all together.

> > > >

> > > > No company should ban a persons account even if they accept a million gold from someone doing something illegal without the knowledge, (Removal of currency) absolutely assuming it was obtained by the party who gave it illegally, just reverse the transactions if any items traded.

> > >

> > > No they wont reverse the transaction the gold you get for said item is deleted no item returned.

> > > If you buy an item from a hack the item will be destroyed no gold returned.

> > >

> > > Why should they encurage people to trade outside their trading post?

> >

> > Well if a game allows player to player trading, or Trading through the mail for example then a transaction is legal.

> >

> > For example if A player named "Bob" sells an item through a player to player transaction, and Player B trades gold they purchased from a gold sellers site or commit fraud, then Bob should not get into trouble, and the transaction should either be cancelled if they are not allowed to keep gold the item should be returned if the gold is deleted.

> >

> > Same thing with Runs, if a person saves evidence of a player asking for a run, and a player agrees to run a person for in-game currency as long as it is within the chat-logs of a game then it is a valid transaction, and a player should not be banned just for accepting currency for a run if another person did a crime without their knowledge.

> >

> > There is a difference between going to a 3rd party site and buying like millions of in-game currency obviously **But if Guild Wars 2 has a problem with people selling runs, or trading player 2 player then by all means remove it from the game if the GM's cannot make trading 100% Safe** Unless Bob is involved in a malicious transaction knowingly they should not get banned, or have transactions containing items deleted if currency is removed.

>

> Dident say they would get banned for accepting illegaly bought currency just that said currency would be deleted from the sellers account.

 

Ah okay so if I sold some runs or something and made like 50 gold or something, I wouldn't get banned if it came from an illict source it would simply be deleted?

 

Just want to be sure, because I am very cautious at what trades I accept these days especially since I had one game company terminate an account from another game for accepting a trade in good faith which did not involve real money.

 

Pretty much all companies Know I am legitimate about my transactions with over $1,500 USD spent in BDO in a year, and previous whaling in Arche Age.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Renoaku.4189" said:

> > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > @"Renoaku.4189" said:

> > > > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > > > @"Renoaku.4189" said:

> > > > > I mean if they didn't want people selling runs they could just remove the ability to gift, or give currency to anyone all together.

> > > > >

> > > > > No company should ban a persons account even if they accept a million gold from someone doing something illegal without the knowledge, (Removal of currency) absolutely assuming it was obtained by the party who gave it illegally, just reverse the transactions if any items traded.

> > > >

> > > > No they wont reverse the transaction the gold you get for said item is deleted no item returned.

> > > > If you buy an item from a hack the item will be destroyed no gold returned.

> > > >

> > > > Why should they encurage people to trade outside their trading post?

> > >

> > > Well if a game allows player to player trading, or Trading through the mail for example then a transaction is legal.

> > >

> > > For example if A player named "Bob" sells an item through a player to player transaction, and Player B trades gold they purchased from a gold sellers site or commit fraud, then Bob should not get into trouble, and the transaction should either be cancelled if they are not allowed to keep gold the item should be returned if the gold is deleted.

> > >

> > > Same thing with Runs, if a person saves evidence of a player asking for a run, and a player agrees to run a person for in-game currency as long as it is within the chat-logs of a game then it is a valid transaction, and a player should not be banned just for accepting currency for a run if another person did a crime without their knowledge.

> > >

> > > There is a difference between going to a 3rd party site and buying like millions of in-game currency obviously **But if Guild Wars 2 has a problem with people selling runs, or trading player 2 player then by all means remove it from the game if the GM's cannot make trading 100% Safe** Unless Bob is involved in a malicious transaction knowingly they should not get banned, or have transactions containing items deleted if currency is removed.

> >

> > Dident say they would get banned for accepting illegaly bought currency just that said currency would be deleted from the sellers account.

>

> Ah okay so if I sold some runs or something and made like 50 gold or something, I wouldn't get banned if it came from an illict source it would simply be deleted?

>

> Just want to be sure, because I am very cautious at what trades I accept these days especially since I had one game company terminate an account from another game for accepting a trade in good faith which did not involve real money.

>

> Pretty much all companies Know I am legitimate about my transactions with over $1,500 USD spent in BDO in a year, and previous whaling in Arche Age.

 

From my understanding if you sold a run that player that got its gold from a illegal site the player would be banned and the gold they doodled out would be deleted. ( so you would have got nothing) if they can see that you got gold directly from a known account that have sold illegal gold then you face consequences mate.

 

Its better for us and the game that they let known gold sellers sell to more then 1 person since then they can ban not just 1 account but alot of others that send and pool gold into that said account before they know they have been uncovered.

[Mikal Dynath.6195]

> @"Vayne.8563" said:

 

> I'd like legendary armor. But I don't enjoy raiding. So I won't have it, unless I pay for it, which I've yet to do. You can say well, too bad it's part of the game. But I bought this game, after some research, because raids weren't in it, and that kind of content was few and far between. *...* I don't like coordinating with 9 other people at their convenience or schedule to get stuff done. Not my thing and never has been.

>

> I left Rift because the end game, when I played anyway, funneled me into raids with no real option to to do anything else. Guild Wars 2 isn't like that. But there are not objects in the game I can't get without completely changing how I play and unfortunately it's not the game I signed on for. Still refuse to pay for raids though.

 

 

> @"starlinvf.1358" said:

 

> The myriad of conditions in the state of the game make very high end crafting/achievement projects too desirable for the wrong reasons; and thus players are treating the requirements as _barriers to be dismantled_, rather then tasks to be completed to achieve their goal.

 

 

I came here to join the conversation but these two already said everything I wanted to. Wanted to snip my favourite parts tho

 

[Bawi.9541]

> @"Renoaku.4189" said:

> (Don't ask don't tell.)**

 

 

I have yet to hear this saying and a legitimate concern in the same paragraph.

[Jackk.8104]

I always buy raids as soon as they are released. I tried "normal" run once and it was awful, i cant imagine that people can enjoy this kind of stuff while at the same time i see many people (including me) with expert raid titles and items. Buying the run is currently the best way to play that content and it would be nice if selling runs could get his own tab in lfg tool, so i dont have to scroll over all these "normal" groups that are wasting their time trying to do this content on their own.