Do you want Epidemic to be removed from the game?

[bLind.6278]

It doesn't need to be removed, but it should be reworked because it's either broken OP or worthless depending on the encounter. Honestly it should just be a 10s buff that copies applied debuffs from all sources to a second target or doubles the application of each condi applied for a short duration or something. The problem is that a lot of trash mobs die so quickly that epi bouncing is just irrelevant anyway.

[perilisk.1874]

I can think of lots of ways to make Epi less OP without removing it:

1) Give each stack a unique ID, clone that ID for conditions spread via Epi, and don't add a stack to a target that already has a stack with that ID.

2) Add a new "contagious" condition/effect that causes the target's condition damage to tick on allies in range, but without actually transmitting the conditions.

3) Leave the current functionality and bounce strategy, but restrict Epi to only copying stacks of poison.

4) Leave the current functionality, but halve the duration of transferred stacks.

 

Epidemic is a neat, and very situational skill. It would be a shame to remove it altogether.

[ZDragon.3046]

> @"perilisk.1874" said:

> I can think of lots of ways to make Epi less OP without removing it:

But its not op to start with its a very niche use skill which alot of people seem to think happens to be op when organized under very specific situations and setups that take extremely practice and near perfect timing to execute.

It has not changed the way the game is played, made necro the new top profession for raids, or knocked any professions out of the cycle.

 

If you communicate anything within a well enough timed coordination it can become op this is not just limited to the skill epidemic.

 

 

 

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Epidemic is fine and only supposedly OP in a single extremely niche case to the point it really should not even matter.

[Agrippa Oculus.3726]

I wouldn't mind if the skill gets a full overhaul giving us something _powerful_ that's useful everywhere and always (not just in very niche situations).

- E.G.: _doubling poison stacks on target (with some kind of a cap and/or some kind of recharge punishment the more stacks were added)._

Imo, this would still kinda live up to its name, the epidemic is very local (target only) though :).

- OR: _some kind of a jumping effect: Adds 5 stacks of poison to target and jumps to next target (900 range) receiving 4 stacks poison etc._

I mean, isn't that what's epidemic is ALL about :)

- OR: _AoE weakness (300 range), targets that already are weakened receive (a (very) small amount of) poison, burning, bleed and torment instead._

Epidemic only hits the weak souls :s muhahaha :D

 

Also, don't forget the corruption effect. Maybe even change it to _self burning_!

 

Btw, changing Epidemic **only**, is definitely not enough .... The Necro/Reaper (and in lesser extent: Scourge) is in dire need of a LOT of quality buffs or maybe even redesign!

[Amerikajinn.4635]

> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said:

> I wouldn't mind if the skill gets a full overhaul giving us something _powerful_ that's useful everywhere and always (not just in very niche situations).

 

> Also, don't forget the corruption effect. Maybe even change it to _self burning_!

>

> Btw, changing Epidemic **only**, is definitely not enough .... The Necro/Reaper (and in lesser extent: Scourge) is in dire need of a LOT of quality buffs or maybe even redesign!

 

I really don't get where the idea that Epidemic is only usable in niche situations came from, when it is applicable to the vast majority of encounters/situations in the game. You look at raids and outside of CMs there is only one fight where it truly cannot be used (Cairn), it's applicable to every fractal to some degree, open world it allows you to deal with groups of mobs, in PvP/WvW it punishes lack of resistance/dodging of the now very telegraphed projectile, etc.

 

It's really not the monster of a skill people make it out to be, and if it was truly the reason why Necro is "held back" in overall damage then the Power builds shouldn't be affected by it by merit of being unable to use Epidemic to nearly the same effectiveness. It also doesn't perform anywhere near as effectively outside of a team that is highly coordinated; while Epi-bouncing is possible in groups with no vocal communication by watching for the animation and just being familiar with when one would use Epidemic, there would still be the delay in effectiveness as a result.

 

The "niche" situations for Epidemic are where it is truly the most powerful method to use, and even then there is more to the story than just Epidemic being powerful in this situation. I refer to of course Vale Guardian, which after the DnT kill popularized the Epi-comp. For Vale Guardian there are numerous factors at play here (aside from being able to Epidemic essentially off-cooldown):

* Epidemic mitigates the pressure from the seekers, allowing the group to focus entirely on dealing damage

* Barriers from the Scourges mitigate the green circle mechanic, which again allows the group to ignore it and focus on dealing damage

* Barrier application allows the group to stack all 3 Guardians and cleave them down together, making their damage a non-issue

* Barrier application also makes running a healer build a non-issue due to the barrier being more than enough to mitigate damage dealt to the tank, meaning the group can run more dps classes than a group otherwise would (in the optimal scenario)

* All of the Scourges have boon corruption, making dealing with the blue guardian quickly a non-issue

* Scourge does the vast majority of its damage from range, meaning it doesn't rely on VG standing still to deal damage, making repositioning to avoid the blue teleporting AoEs and avoiding the "active" damaging floor a non issue

* Scourge brings plenty of CC as a part of its kit, making the breakbars of VG and the split phase Guardians a non-issue

* The seekers "dying" when they respawn means a Scourge will have a much higher amount of Life Force at this fight than any other, meaning more barrier application and more damage via Dhuumfire procs

 

Combine all of these factors together with some of the most experienced players in the game and you end up with a kill that looks super efficient and makes Epidemic look extremely powerful, when in actuality there are so many factors that Scourge feeds into that make the kill very easy due to the tools Scourge brings to the table. Some of these can affect other bosses to a minor degree, but bosses like Vale Guardian, Soulless Horror and even Xera all make perfect examples of when these factors can all come into play.

 

 

 

[Funky.4861]

Without epidemic, necros would be banished from raids, fractals, wvw squads because they bring nothing to the table (apart from barrier, maybe...) apart from mediocre damage and boon-corrupts/strips. Necro damage would need to be massively buffed, by like 50% in order to compete with the likes of warrior, dragonhunter etc. Consider the huge buff to the vampiric trait, yet it is still insufficient to sustain against pretty much any incoming damage (no-one takes it).

 

If the issue is due to it's only spreading condi-damage, i'd suggest reworking one of the reaper shouts to do exactly the same but for direct damage (all direct damage on the primary target is applied to the nearest 5 targets for i don't know, 3-5 seconds?) with arcing red blobs of doom or something telegraphed and dodgeable.

[Dreddo.9865]

Epi is a necro's "trademark utility" and a necessity for condi builds. The cleave it provides is unmatched and makes a necro unique in that matter. Epi is fine look elsewhere. :)

[Jimbru.6014]

Rework it, along with the other curses, to get rid of the whole "self-inflicted conditions" shtick.

[Cregath.7628]

I think a more interactive version would be better than outright removing or nerfing it. For example, you could just cast the spell, then you have a few seconds to apply as much Conditions as you can on the target, then those conditions are evenly spread out on targets in range or something. It basically still doubles the DPS you do in that time-frame so I'd give it a big larger Cooldown too than what it actually has. The reason it's low CD is probably just because Plaguelands in relatively low CD which is the Elite Skill in the same category as Epidemic.

[Autumn.8043]

Do I like the fact that Necromancers viability in Raids and/or Fractals is almost tied to a single skill, no. Do I trust Anet to adequately compensate for the loss of said skill, also no.

[Avigrus.2871]

> @"Autumn.8043" said:

> Do I like the fact that Necromancers viability in Raids and/or Fractals is almost tied to a single skill, no. Do I trust Anet to adequately compensate for the loss of said skill, also no.

 

Pretty much this. Totally agreed.

[Tobias.8632]

Just make a trait or some other opt in thing that changes epidemic so instead of copying conditions to nearby enemies, it increases the duration of your conditions on a single enemy. Now single target dps is fix without being broken by epi bounces.

[Wizardauz.3761]

Should it be removed. No.

 

Probably should have the Radius tuned down/Number of Targets reduced. Make it more skillshot-ish. Rather something that can be cast out thoughtlessly on any target with enough condi's remotely near other people.

 

It should punish players for grouping up **Too Close**, Not punish players for grouping up at all.

 

Maybe rework a Major Grandmaster Talent in Curses to give it some of that power back that was taken away from it in order to regain its power you have to sacrifice something else entirely.

[alez.2137]

Make epidemic non dependant to other's debuff, based on power damage, unable to crit and spamable. That way it will be the main tool for multiple adds in scourge and reaper. However the damage output can be controlled more easily and it would stop being the main excuse to have the necros build like 10k-15k under the top dps classes.