ReaverKane.7598 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Deeyra.1476" said: > > > > > @"Dabrixmgp.4758" said: > > > > > so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous? > > > > > > > > Nobody does them anymore because the rewards are poop. Simple as that. > > > > > > Rewards are close to the same they were before liquid gold nerf. > > > > Not even close... Unless you do the 8 paths to get the 5 gold and 150 tokens, you can't even compare. In average the first run in a dungeon used to yield 1.76g (1.5g+the regular 26s, with Arah going as high as 3.26g per run, and CoF only giving 1.26g), now you get 61 silver for your first run in average. that's 1.15g less. I wouldn't call it close. > > Sure you get 20 more tokens per run, but those are not very profitable now a days barring very specific conditions. > > > > Lets be fair and compare 8 paths... > > Lets assume you're doing the most profitable paths (Arah (4)+AC (3)+CM (1)) for both systems: > > > > **New system: ** > > Liquid Gold from the final reward: > > Arah = 4.52 g (3 paths give 1g daily plus 26s per path, the Forgotten path only awards 50s daily plus the 26s regular) > > AC = 2.26 g (each path awards 50s daily plus 26s) > > CM = 0.61g (each path awards 35s daily plus 26s). > > 8 paths = 7.39g > > Achievement Gold: 5g > > Total = 12.39g > > > > Tokens: 100 from each path, so 800 + 150 from achievement. Total tokens 950. > > > > **Old system:** > > Liquid gold from the final reward: > > Arah = 11.54g (3 paths gave 3g daily reward plus 26s per path, the Forgotten path awarded 1.5g daily plus the 26s) > > AC = 5.43g (each path awarded 1.55g daily plus 26s) > > CM = 1.76g (each path awarded 1.5g plus 26s) > > Total = 18.73g > > Tokens: 80 from each path, so 640 tokens. > > > > In total you'd get 6.34 more gold from dungeons than nowadays, but 310 less tokens. > > Can those 310 tokens make up for 6.34g? Not likely, unless you had the luck of dropping recipes for the more in-demand dungeon accessories, which is highly conditional. > > I take drops and tokens into account. There were solid numbers proving that current rewards are up to par with old ones but I don't feel like looking for 2 year old posts. Drops and tokens aside from the daily rewards are the same for both systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hexinx.1872 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 I like the idea of ascended dungeon armor / weapons, just put that requirement ceiling high up there. It's sad that dungeons kinda got dumped by the wayside in favor of fractals. I kinda miss some of those dungeon runs with guildies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Deeyra.1476" said: > > > > > > @"Dabrixmgp.4758" said: > > > > > > so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous? > > > > > > > > > > Nobody does them anymore because the rewards are poop. Simple as that. > > > > > > > > Rewards are close to the same they were before liquid gold nerf. > > > > > > Not even close... Unless you do the 8 paths to get the 5 gold and 150 tokens, you can't even compare. In average the first run in a dungeon used to yield 1.76g (1.5g+the regular 26s, with Arah going as high as 3.26g per run, and CoF only giving 1.26g), now you get 61 silver for your first run in average. that's 1.15g less. I wouldn't call it close. > > > Sure you get 20 more tokens per run, but those are not very profitable now a days barring very specific conditions. > > > > > > Lets be fair and compare 8 paths... > > > Lets assume you're doing the most profitable paths (Arah (4)+AC (3)+CM (1)) for both systems: > > > > > > **New system: ** > > > Liquid Gold from the final reward: > > > Arah = 4.52 g (3 paths give 1g daily plus 26s per path, the Forgotten path only awards 50s daily plus the 26s regular) > > > AC = 2.26 g (each path awards 50s daily plus 26s) > > > CM = 0.61g (each path awards 35s daily plus 26s). > > > 8 paths = 7.39g > > > Achievement Gold: 5g > > > Total = 12.39g > > > > > > Tokens: 100 from each path, so 800 + 150 from achievement. Total tokens 950. > > > > > > **Old system:** > > > Liquid gold from the final reward: > > > Arah = 11.54g (3 paths gave 3g daily reward plus 26s per path, the Forgotten path awarded 1.5g daily plus the 26s) > > > AC = 5.43g (each path awarded 1.55g daily plus 26s) > > > CM = 1.76g (each path awarded 1.5g plus 26s) > > > Total = 18.73g > > > Tokens: 80 from each path, so 640 tokens. > > > > > > In total you'd get 6.34 more gold from dungeons than nowadays, but 310 less tokens. > > > Can those 310 tokens make up for 6.34g? Not likely, unless you had the luck of dropping recipes for the more in-demand dungeon accessories, which is highly conditional. > > > > I take drops and tokens into account. There were solid numbers proving that current rewards are up to par with old ones but I don't feel like looking for 2 year old posts. > > Drops and tokens aside from the daily rewards are the same for both systems. Nope. They buffed daily tokens. Which you even mention in your calcs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinceman.4572 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > Drops and tokens aside from the daily rewards are the same for both systems. Kheldorn is right here. They buffed the tokens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffball.8307 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Every now and then I'll offer to lead a pack of full newbies through TA; new players with under 1k AP, often under leveled for the dungeon, in terrible gear. Sometimes they need my help. About half the time I don't even have to say anything, and they figure it out just fine on their own. You have a bad attitude, OP. _Literally_ be up for a challenge, rather than just following a meta to break content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > Drops and tokens aside from the daily rewards are the same for both systems. > > Kheldorn is right here. They buffed the tokens. > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Deeyra.1476" said: > > > > > > > @"Dabrixmgp.4758" said: > > > > > > > so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous? > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody does them anymore because the rewards are poop. Simple as that. > > > > > > > > > > Rewards are close to the same they were before liquid gold nerf. > > > > > > > > Not even close... Unless you do the 8 paths to get the 5 gold and 150 tokens, you can't even compare. In average the first run in a dungeon used to yield 1.76g (1.5g+the regular 26s, with Arah going as high as 3.26g per run, and CoF only giving 1.26g), now you get 61 silver for your first run in average. that's 1.15g less. I wouldn't call it close. > > > > Sure you get 20 more tokens per run, but those are not very profitable now a days barring very specific conditions. > > > > > > > > Lets be fair and compare 8 paths... > > > > Lets assume you're doing the most profitable paths (Arah (4)+AC (3)+CM (1)) for both systems: > > > > > > > > **New system: ** > > > > Liquid Gold from the final reward: > > > > Arah = 4.52 g (3 paths give 1g daily plus 26s per path, the Forgotten path only awards 50s daily plus the 26s regular) > > > > AC = 2.26 g (each path awards 50s daily plus 26s) > > > > CM = 0.61g (each path awards 35s daily plus 26s). > > > > 8 paths = 7.39g > > > > Achievement Gold: 5g > > > > Total = 12.39g > > > > > > > > Tokens: 100 from each path, so 800 + 150 from achievement. Total tokens 950. > > > > > > > > **Old system:** > > > > Liquid gold from the final reward: > > > > Arah = 11.54g (3 paths gave 3g daily reward plus 26s per path, the Forgotten path awarded 1.5g daily plus the 26s) > > > > AC = 5.43g (each path awarded 1.55g daily plus 26s) > > > > CM = 1.76g (each path awarded 1.5g plus 26s) > > > > Total = 18.73g > > > > Tokens: 80 from each path, so 640 tokens. > > > > > > > > In total you'd get 6.34 more gold from dungeons than nowadays, but 310 less tokens. > > > > Can those 310 tokens make up for 6.34g? Not likely, unless you had the luck of dropping recipes for the more in-demand dungeon accessories, which is highly conditional. > > > > > > I take drops and tokens into account. There were solid numbers proving that current rewards are up to par with old ones but I don't feel like looking for 2 year old posts. > > > > Drops and tokens aside from the daily rewards are the same for both systems. > > Nope. They buffed daily tokens. Which you even mention in your calcs. Which are part of the daily rewards. The ones that drop from token bags are the same, as are drops. And like you said, tokens are mentioned on my calculations. And like i said an increase of 310 tokens doesn't make up for a loss of 6g. Like i said "drops and tokens **aside from the daily rewards** are the same as before". Would be nice if people read stuff before making remarks like this. Seriously, aside from looking like you don't read, what was your points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > Drops and tokens aside from the daily rewards are the same for both systems. > > > > Kheldorn is right here. They buffed the tokens. > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Deeyra.1476" said: > > > > > > > > @"Dabrixmgp.4758" said: > > > > > > > > so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody does them anymore because the rewards are poop. Simple as that. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rewards are close to the same they were before liquid gold nerf. > > > > > > > > > > Not even close... Unless you do the 8 paths to get the 5 gold and 150 tokens, you can't even compare. In average the first run in a dungeon used to yield 1.76g (1.5g+the regular 26s, with Arah going as high as 3.26g per run, and CoF only giving 1.26g), now you get 61 silver for your first run in average. that's 1.15g less. I wouldn't call it close. > > > > > Sure you get 20 more tokens per run, but those are not very profitable now a days barring very specific conditions. > > > > > > > > > > Lets be fair and compare 8 paths... > > > > > Lets assume you're doing the most profitable paths (Arah (4)+AC (3)+CM (1)) for both systems: > > > > > > > > > > **New system: ** > > > > > Liquid Gold from the final reward: > > > > > Arah = 4.52 g (3 paths give 1g daily plus 26s per path, the Forgotten path only awards 50s daily plus the 26s regular) > > > > > AC = 2.26 g (each path awards 50s daily plus 26s) > > > > > CM = 0.61g (each path awards 35s daily plus 26s). > > > > > 8 paths = 7.39g > > > > > Achievement Gold: 5g > > > > > Total = 12.39g > > > > > > > > > > Tokens: 100 from each path, so 800 + 150 from achievement. Total tokens 950. > > > > > > > > > > **Old system:** > > > > > Liquid gold from the final reward: > > > > > Arah = 11.54g (3 paths gave 3g daily reward plus 26s per path, the Forgotten path awarded 1.5g daily plus the 26s) > > > > > AC = 5.43g (each path awarded 1.55g daily plus 26s) > > > > > CM = 1.76g (each path awarded 1.5g plus 26s) > > > > > Total = 18.73g > > > > > Tokens: 80 from each path, so 640 tokens. > > > > > > > > > > In total you'd get 6.34 more gold from dungeons than nowadays, but 310 less tokens. > > > > > Can those 310 tokens make up for 6.34g? Not likely, unless you had the luck of dropping recipes for the more in-demand dungeon accessories, which is highly conditional. > > > > > > > > I take drops and tokens into account. There were solid numbers proving that current rewards are up to par with old ones but I don't feel like looking for 2 year old posts. > > > > > > Drops and tokens aside from the daily rewards are the same for both systems. > > > > Nope. They buffed daily tokens. Which you even mention in your calcs. > > Which are part of the daily rewards. > The ones that drop from token bags are the same, as are drops. And like you said, tokens are mentioned on my calculations. > And like i said an increase of 310 tokens doesn't make up for a loss of 6g. > Like i said "drops and tokens **aside from the daily rewards** are the same as before". > Would be nice if people read stuff before making remarks like this. Seriously, aside from looking like you don't read, what was your points? > And this is why these tokens make the difference and bring current rewards close to old ones, since it's not liquid gold anymore it depends on material price but it's definitely better than right after the change. For people who don't like fractals but have at least 2 competent friends dungeon runs are still good source of gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > Drops and tokens aside from the daily rewards are the same for both systems. > > > > > > Kheldorn is right here. They buffed the tokens. > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Deeyra.1476" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Dabrixmgp.4758" said: > > > > > > > > > so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody does them anymore because the rewards are poop. Simple as that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rewards are close to the same they were before liquid gold nerf. > > > > > > > > > > > > Not even close... Unless you do the 8 paths to get the 5 gold and 150 tokens, you can't even compare. In average the first run in a dungeon used to yield 1.76g (1.5g+the regular 26s, with Arah going as high as 3.26g per run, and CoF only giving 1.26g), now you get 61 silver for your first run in average. that's 1.15g less. I wouldn't call it close. > > > > > > Sure you get 20 more tokens per run, but those are not very profitable now a days barring very specific conditions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets be fair and compare 8 paths... > > > > > > Lets assume you're doing the most profitable paths (Arah (4)+AC (3)+CM (1)) for both systems: > > > > > > > > > > > > **New system: ** > > > > > > Liquid Gold from the final reward: > > > > > > Arah = 4.52 g (3 paths give 1g daily plus 26s per path, the Forgotten path only awards 50s daily plus the 26s regular) > > > > > > AC = 2.26 g (each path awards 50s daily plus 26s) > > > > > > CM = 0.61g (each path awards 35s daily plus 26s). > > > > > > 8 paths = 7.39g > > > > > > Achievement Gold: 5g > > > > > > Total = 12.39g > > > > > > > > > > > > Tokens: 100 from each path, so 800 + 150 from achievement. Total tokens 950. > > > > > > > > > > > > **Old system:** > > > > > > Liquid gold from the final reward: > > > > > > Arah = 11.54g (3 paths gave 3g daily reward plus 26s per path, the Forgotten path awarded 1.5g daily plus the 26s) > > > > > > AC = 5.43g (each path awarded 1.55g daily plus 26s) > > > > > > CM = 1.76g (each path awarded 1.5g plus 26s) > > > > > > Total = 18.73g > > > > > > Tokens: 80 from each path, so 640 tokens. > > > > > > > > > > > > In total you'd get 6.34 more gold from dungeons than nowadays, but 310 less tokens. > > > > > > Can those 310 tokens make up for 6.34g? Not likely, unless you had the luck of dropping recipes for the more in-demand dungeon accessories, which is highly conditional. > > > > > > > > > > I take drops and tokens into account. There were solid numbers proving that current rewards are up to par with old ones but I don't feel like looking for 2 year old posts. > > > > > > > > Drops and tokens aside from the daily rewards are the same for both systems. > > > > > > Nope. They buffed daily tokens. Which you even mention in your calcs. > > > > Which are part of the daily rewards. > > The ones that drop from token bags are the same, as are drops. And like you said, tokens are mentioned on my calculations. > > And like i said an increase of 310 tokens doesn't make up for a loss of 6g. > > Like i said "drops and tokens **aside from the daily rewards** are the same as before". > > Would be nice if people read stuff before making remarks like this. Seriously, aside from looking like you don't read, what was your points? > > > > And this is why these tokens make the difference and bring current rewards close to old ones, since it's not liquid gold anymore it depends on material price but it's definitely better than right after the change. For people who don't like fractals but have at least 2 competent friends dungeon runs are still good source of gold. I **DEMONSTRATED** it doesn't!! There's 2-3 things that **might** make up for it, and those are the exclusive exotic amulets you can craft **if** you have the rewards. Nothing else is even close to the loss of income. https://gw2efficiency.com/currencies/dungeon-tokens?filter.salvageKit=blsk That's what you can get for tokens in dungeons nowadays! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > Drops and tokens aside from the daily rewards are the same for both systems. > > > > > > > > Kheldorn is right here. They buffed the tokens. > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Deeyra.1476" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Dabrixmgp.4758" said: > > > > > > > > > > so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody does them anymore because the rewards are poop. Simple as that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rewards are close to the same they were before liquid gold nerf. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not even close... Unless you do the 8 paths to get the 5 gold and 150 tokens, you can't even compare. In average the first run in a dungeon used to yield 1.76g (1.5g+the regular 26s, with Arah going as high as 3.26g per run, and CoF only giving 1.26g), now you get 61 silver for your first run in average. that's 1.15g less. I wouldn't call it close. > > > > > > > Sure you get 20 more tokens per run, but those are not very profitable now a days barring very specific conditions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets be fair and compare 8 paths... > > > > > > > Lets assume you're doing the most profitable paths (Arah (4)+AC (3)+CM (1)) for both systems: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **New system: ** > > > > > > > Liquid Gold from the final reward: > > > > > > > Arah = 4.52 g (3 paths give 1g daily plus 26s per path, the Forgotten path only awards 50s daily plus the 26s regular) > > > > > > > AC = 2.26 g (each path awards 50s daily plus 26s) > > > > > > > CM = 0.61g (each path awards 35s daily plus 26s). > > > > > > > 8 paths = 7.39g > > > > > > > Achievement Gold: 5g > > > > > > > Total = 12.39g > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tokens: 100 from each path, so 800 + 150 from achievement. Total tokens 950. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **Old system:** > > > > > > > Liquid gold from the final reward: > > > > > > > Arah = 11.54g (3 paths gave 3g daily reward plus 26s per path, the Forgotten path awarded 1.5g daily plus the 26s) > > > > > > > AC = 5.43g (each path awarded 1.55g daily plus 26s) > > > > > > > CM = 1.76g (each path awarded 1.5g plus 26s) > > > > > > > Total = 18.73g > > > > > > > Tokens: 80 from each path, so 640 tokens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In total you'd get 6.34 more gold from dungeons than nowadays, but 310 less tokens. > > > > > > > Can those 310 tokens make up for 6.34g? Not likely, unless you had the luck of dropping recipes for the more in-demand dungeon accessories, which is highly conditional. > > > > > > > > > > > > I take drops and tokens into account. There were solid numbers proving that current rewards are up to par with old ones but I don't feel like looking for 2 year old posts. > > > > > > > > > > Drops and tokens aside from the daily rewards are the same for both systems. > > > > > > > > Nope. They buffed daily tokens. Which you even mention in your calcs. > > > > > > Which are part of the daily rewards. > > > The ones that drop from token bags are the same, as are drops. And like you said, tokens are mentioned on my calculations. > > > And like i said an increase of 310 tokens doesn't make up for a loss of 6g. > > > Like i said "drops and tokens **aside from the daily rewards** are the same as before". > > > Would be nice if people read stuff before making remarks like this. Seriously, aside from looking like you don't read, what was your points? > > > > > > > And this is why these tokens make the difference and bring current rewards close to old ones, since it's not liquid gold anymore it depends on material price but it's definitely better than right after the change. For people who don't like fractals but have at least 2 competent friends dungeon runs are still good source of gold. > > I **DEMONSTRATED** it doesn't!! > There's 2-3 things that **might** make up for it, and those are the exclusive exotic amulets you can craft **if** you have the rewards. Nothing else is even close to the loss of income. > https://gw2efficiency.com/currencies/dungeon-tokens?filter.salvageKit=blsk > That's what you can get for tokens in dungeons nowadays! No, because you didn't take into consideration drops and liquidating tokens. There was a research done, much better than yours, about time when they buffed rewards again. They were not exactly what we had before the nerf but close to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > Yes, but dungeons didn't really change. They are the same. It was arbitrary decision to give fractals better rewards. Not arbitrary. Anet clearly said, when asked, that the purpose of reward changes to dungeons was to make people stop running them. And "it didn't really change" is a poor argument when everything else did change. Rewardwise, dungeons _were_ left behind. Also, as someone already pointed out, the rewards _are_ worse, not only relatively, but also in absolute values. > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > No, because you didn't take into consideration drops and liquidating tokens. There was a research done, much better than yours, about time when they buffed rewards again. They were not exactly what we had before the nerf but close to it. That research assumed you had the ultra-rare recipes, which most players _do not_ have. If you don't have the recipes, those additional tokens do not make up for the loss of liquid gold, and except fo those two things, all other rewards are the same as before so can be ignored in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 > @"Deeyra.1476" said: > > @"Dabrixmgp.4758" said: > > so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous? > > Nobody does them anymore because the rewards are poop. Simple as that. The rewards are better than before (if you do 8 unique paths). People don't do them because veterans got bored of them years ago and there is so much more to do, most of which is more profitable still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > @"Vinceman.4572" said: > > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > > Drops and tokens aside from the daily rewards are the same for both systems. > > > > > > > > > > Kheldorn is right here. They buffed the tokens. > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Deeyra.1476" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Dabrixmgp.4758" said: > > > > > > > > > > > so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody does them anymore because the rewards are poop. Simple as that. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Rewards are close to the same they were before liquid gold nerf. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not even close... Unless you do the 8 paths to get the 5 gold and 150 tokens, you can't even compare. In average the first run in a dungeon used to yield 1.76g (1.5g+the regular 26s, with Arah going as high as 3.26g per run, and CoF only giving 1.26g), now you get 61 silver for your first run in average. that's 1.15g less. I wouldn't call it close. > > > > > > > > Sure you get 20 more tokens per run, but those are not very profitable now a days barring very specific conditions. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lets be fair and compare 8 paths... > > > > > > > > Lets assume you're doing the most profitable paths (Arah (4)+AC (3)+CM (1)) for both systems: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **New system: ** > > > > > > > > Liquid Gold from the final reward: > > > > > > > > Arah = 4.52 g (3 paths give 1g daily plus 26s per path, the Forgotten path only awards 50s daily plus the 26s regular) > > > > > > > > AC = 2.26 g (each path awards 50s daily plus 26s) > > > > > > > > CM = 0.61g (each path awards 35s daily plus 26s). > > > > > > > > 8 paths = 7.39g > > > > > > > > Achievement Gold: 5g > > > > > > > > Total = 12.39g > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tokens: 100 from each path, so 800 + 150 from achievement. Total tokens 950. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > **Old system:** > > > > > > > > Liquid gold from the final reward: > > > > > > > > Arah = 11.54g (3 paths gave 3g daily reward plus 26s per path, the Forgotten path awarded 1.5g daily plus the 26s) > > > > > > > > AC = 5.43g (each path awarded 1.55g daily plus 26s) > > > > > > > > CM = 1.76g (each path awarded 1.5g plus 26s) > > > > > > > > Total = 18.73g > > > > > > > > Tokens: 80 from each path, so 640 tokens. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In total you'd get 6.34 more gold from dungeons than nowadays, but 310 less tokens. > > > > > > > > Can those 310 tokens make up for 6.34g? Not likely, unless you had the luck of dropping recipes for the more in-demand dungeon accessories, which is highly conditional. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I take drops and tokens into account. There were solid numbers proving that current rewards are up to par with old ones but I don't feel like looking for 2 year old posts. > > > > > > > > > > > > Drops and tokens aside from the daily rewards are the same for both systems. > > > > > > > > > > Nope. They buffed daily tokens. Which you even mention in your calcs. > > > > > > > > Which are part of the daily rewards. > > > > The ones that drop from token bags are the same, as are drops. And like you said, tokens are mentioned on my calculations. > > > > And like i said an increase of 310 tokens doesn't make up for a loss of 6g. > > > > Like i said "drops and tokens **aside from the daily rewards** are the same as before". > > > > Would be nice if people read stuff before making remarks like this. Seriously, aside from looking like you don't read, what was your points? > > > > > > > > > > And this is why these tokens make the difference and bring current rewards close to old ones, since it's not liquid gold anymore it depends on material price but it's definitely better than right after the change. For people who don't like fractals but have at least 2 competent friends dungeon runs are still good source of gold. > > > > I **DEMONSTRATED** it doesn't!! > > There's 2-3 things that **might** make up for it, and those are the exclusive exotic amulets you can craft **if** you have the rewards. Nothing else is even close to the loss of income. > > https://gw2efficiency.com/currencies/dungeon-tokens?filter.salvageKit=blsk > > That's what you can get for tokens in dungeons nowadays! > > No, because you didn't take into consideration drops and liquidating tokens. There was a research done, much better than yours, about time when they buffed rewards again. They were not exactly what we had before the nerf but close to it. Dude seriously!? I DID take into consideration liquidating tokens. I **LINKED YOU A SUMMARY** of what you can earn with tokens. Guess what i also did research, and guess what, the results contradict your claims. Besides it doesn't take much research to reach a conclusion. The liquid gold rewards were reduced by 70% in average, and the tokens were increased by 60% on the daily reward. 180 tokens (unless you are crafting the exotic amulets, which are subject to demand, and liable to drop in price if availability increases) will land you (if you're lucky with ectos and getting an inscription) around 1 gold. The excess tokens you get now compared to the old days is 310 from rewards, if you discount the random drops which are still the same, so every 2 days you'll get an extra ~3 gold from tokens, while you're losing 3-6 gold daily! And drops are **the same** regardless of the changes in daily rewards. You can fool yourself as much as you want but numbers don't lie, and the earth ain't flat! The only advantage that the new system has is that you can get 20 tokens outside the first daily rewards, which is helpful if you're farming a specific token type, but if your objective is gaining gold, you're losing. So outside of completing collections, legendary crafting, and getting specific runes for builds, the old system was much more profitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > Yes, but dungeons didn't really change. They are the same. It was arbitrary decision to give fractals better rewards. > Not arbitrary. Anet clearly said, when asked, that the purpose of reward changes to dungeons was to make people stop running them. > > And "it didn't really change" is a poor argument when everything else did change. Rewardwise, dungeons _were_ left behind. > Also, as someone already pointed out, the rewards _are_ worse, not only relatively, but also in absolute values. > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > No, because you didn't take into consideration drops and liquidating tokens. There was a research done, much better than yours, about time when they buffed rewards again. They were not exactly what we had before the nerf but close to it. > That research assumed you had the ultra-rare recipes, which most players _do not_ have. If you don't have the recipes, those additional tokens do not make up for the loss of liquid gold, and except fo those two things, all other rewards are the same as before so can be ignored in comparison. Can't remember now so can't deny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oglaf.1074 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @"Oglaf.1074" said: > > To me the solution to make dungeons popular again seems so painfully obvious that I don’t understand why Anet haven’t done it already: > Because they don't want to do any work at all on dungeons, including figuring out how to balance a new set of rewards. Dungeons have perfectly fine rewards and people do them a fair bit now. They aren't as popular now because there's competition for people's time. That’s quite frankly a terrible excuse (if indeed true). The models are already there and the math required for the token cost increase would take a clever dude/dudette perhaps an afternoon of crunching to figure out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westenev.5289 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Dungeons are one trick ponys that punish first timers, and rewards skipping/speedruning. In a sense, they're like easier fractals that you learn to complete using experience and strategy rather than singular valor and meta builds. I can see why Vets or New players don't like them - New players get fed, while Vets are fed up and probably want more people playing "their" prefered content. Still, I like Dungeons - they have much less focus on positioning and dps, and reward using off-meta skills and professions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrag.9740 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Anyone who thinks dungeon rewards are better now than before is dillusional. Run all the math you want, before hot you could pug consistently good dungeon groups who actually knew how to stealth skip and blast might/one shot bosses. Now you could post the most elitist lfg and still get complete beginners who think, 'lol it wasn't even filling up so I might as well join'. The biggest nerf to dungeon rewards wasn't the gold nerf, it was telling the players to stop running them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 > @"thrag.9740" said: > Anyone who thinks dungeon rewards are better now than before is dillusional. Run all the math you want, before hot you could pug consistently good dungeon groups who actually knew how to stealth skip and blast might/one shot bosses. Now you could post the most elitist lfg and still get complete beginners who think, 'lol it wasn't even filling up so I might as well join'. The biggest nerf to dungeon rewards wasn't the gold nerf, it was telling the players to stop running them. Noone in this thread have said that dungeon rewards are better now then before have you read it at all? Its almost the same tho if you count everything not just the raw gold. Before people did cof p1 250 times a day. ( exagerated alittle) Now you have to do 8 dif paths and you can do that for the bonus chest however many times you like a day aswell. ( wont be as profitable after the first run tho) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrag.9740 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"thrag.9740" said: > > Anyone who thinks dungeon rewards are better now than before is dillusional. Run all the math you want, before hot you could pug consistently good dungeon groups who actually knew how to stealth skip and blast might/one shot bosses. Now you could post the most elitist lfg and still get complete beginners who think, 'lol it wasn't even filling up so I might as well join'. The biggest nerf to dungeon rewards wasn't the gold nerf, it was telling the players to stop running them. > > Noone in this thread have said that dungeon rewards are better now then before have you read it at all? > Its almost the same tho if you count everything not just the raw gold. > Before people did cof p1 250 times a day. ( exagerated alittle) > Now you have to do 8 dif paths and you can do that for the bonus chest however many times you like a day aswell. ( wont be as profitable after the first run tho) I originally appologized for misspeaking, but see my link below. It appears it was you who didn't read this thread at all. The fact your talking about when ppl ran cof many times a day after I mention stealth skips tells me you have no idea what your talking about, and are just quoting old stuff you saw around the old forums. I'm talking about the years prior to hot when there was a proper daily rewards system and people did large dungeon tours. You use to be able to post something like, 'arah p123 exp 80s, need 1 thief, 1 ps' and you would actually get a team that fit the description, knew how to do stealth, and you would run through constantly without any downtimes. Nowadays that lfg takes forever to fill, and more often than not, is filled with terribly unqualified players. You use to be able to hop into dungeons and just have smooth runs, now your expected to teach and explain every little thing, and if you complain about it your an elitist. Thieves running behind eles because they dont know the path rather than being leaders, ppl running condi builds, no one can use blinds, guards who cant reflect, groups that couldn't dodge lupi's aoe if you let them wipe at it for hours on end, no one has harpy feathers, no one runs potions, no one willing to kick players who are blatantly not meeting lfg standards. I was someone who ran dungeons back in that time, and I've tried running them post hot and post pof, its not even close, the community that actually knows how to do dungeons is gone, Anet saw to that personally. If your able to form a guild and build contacts, and have a predetermined time to do a full tour, sure maybe the modern rewards are competitive. But as for the much more common pug experience? Its not even close, dungeons are dead. I joined a raid lfg this week. 'w1234 full clear, need dps or druid'. I was with that group for about 4 hours. It would have been a sub 3 hour clear if we didn't keep having ppl leave/join. I can honestly say, since the release of hot I have never had 3 hours of dungeon pugging go anywhere near that smoothly. All the talent migrated to raids and fractals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hannelore.8153 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Even though they dropped the dungeon team I still wish that they would one day make a single QoL pass over each dungeon--add AoE indicators and things like that, it would make sure that all future generations can still enjoy them without having to rely on 'passed down ancient knowledge'. Spoilers ?? But I'm also the type of person who thinks that they should convert Arah to an open-world meta map like Dragon's Stand to do something about that horrible Zhaitan fight that stains GW2's history, but I guess I just like to wish big, however hopeless. All old content--dungeons, LS1 and similar, is pretty much considered to not officially exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrag.9740 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 > @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"thrag.9740" said: > > Anyone who thinks dungeon rewards are better now than before is dillusional. Run all the math you want, before hot you could pug consistently good dungeon groups who actually knew how to stealth skip and blast might/one shot bosses. Now you could post the most elitist lfg and still get complete beginners who think, 'lol it wasn't even filling up so I might as well join'. The biggest nerf to dungeon rewards wasn't the gold nerf, it was telling the players to stop running them. > > Noone in this thread have said that dungeon rewards are better now then before have you read it at all? Please see: > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said: > > @"Deeyra.1476" said: > > > @"Dabrixmgp.4758" said: > > > so if dungeons are tuned just fine then why does no one do them anymore? Im all for a challenge but this is ridiculous. Actually they are leveling dungeons because they do scale you down. If I want a challenge I will do T4 fractals or raids. This is a dungeon meant for level 55 players so why is it this ridiculous? > > > > Nobody does them anymore because the rewards are poop. Simple as that. > > The rewards are better than before (if you do 8 unique paths). People don't do them because veterans got bored of them years ago and there is so much more to do, most of which is more profitable still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 > @"thrag.9740" said: > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > > @"thrag.9740" said: > > > Anyone who thinks dungeon rewards are better now than before is dillusional. Run all the math you want, before hot you could pug consistently good dungeon groups who actually knew how to stealth skip and blast might/one shot bosses. Now you could post the most elitist lfg and still get complete beginners who think, 'lol it wasn't even filling up so I might as well join'. The biggest nerf to dungeon rewards wasn't the gold nerf, it was telling the players to stop running them. > > > > Noone in this thread have said that dungeon rewards are better now then before have you read it at all? > > Its almost the same tho if you count everything not just the raw gold. > > Before people did cof p1 250 times a day. ( exagerated alittle) > > Now you have to do 8 dif paths and you can do that for the bonus chest however many times you like a day aswell. ( wont be as profitable after the first run tho) > I originally appologized for misspeaking, but see my link below. It appears it was you who didn't read this thread at all. > > The fact your talking about when ppl ran cof many times a day after I mention stealth skips tells me you have no idea what your talking about, and are just quoting old stuff you saw around the old forums. I'm talking about the years prior to hot when there was a proper daily rewards system and people did large dungeon tours. You use to be able to post something like, 'arah p123 exp 80s, need 1 thief, 1 ps' and you would actually get a team that fit the description, knew how to do stealth, and you would run through constantly without any downtimes. > > Nowadays that lfg takes forever to fill, and more often than not, is filled with terribly unqualified players. You use to be able to hop into dungeons and just have smooth runs, now your expected to teach and explain every little thing, and if you complain about it your an elitist. Thieves running behind eles because they dont know the path rather than being leaders, ppl running condi builds, no one can use blinds, guards who cant reflect, groups that couldn't dodge lupi's aoe if you let them wipe at it for hours on end, no one has harpy feathers, no one runs potions, no one willing to kick players who are blatantly not meeting lfg standards. > > I was someone who ran dungeons back in that time, and I've tried running them post hot and post pof, its not even close, the community that actually knows how to do dungeons is gone, Anet saw to that personally. If your able to form a guild and build contacts, and have a predetermined time to do a full tour, sure maybe the modern rewards are competitive. But as for the much more common pug experience? Its not even close, dungeons are dead. > > I joined a raid lfg this week. 'w1234 full clear, need dps or druid'. I was with that group for about 4 hours. It would have been a sub 3 hour clear if we didn't keep having ppl leave/join. I can honestly say, since the release of hot I have never had 3 hours of dungeon pugging go anywhere near that smoothly. All the talent migrated to raids and fractals. Respect man! I used to do AC (3 paths), CM (3 path), TA (2 path), SE (2 path), CoF (1path) and CoE (3 path) in under 4 hours every day and usually I'd do some extra with 2 paths of HotW. Having the patience to go througth arah in a 3-4 hour run... Wow I didn't do that since the very early days of GW2. You really got all my respect here (and this is not sarcastic, I don't think I'd have the gut to suffer this now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Just did TA the other day, in fact I've done every path of TA in the past month with a couple of guildies who aren't particularly good at running hard content. Knowing the runs makes all the difference, but we had relatively few deaths in most of the runs, even in the Aetherblade path. Just because people don't want to figure out how to beat something doesn't mean it's not beatable. TA is a tough dungeon because of the amount of condition damage, and because people insist on running instead of killing. Running is harder for some people than others. If you killed your way through and took your time it would be a lot easier. That's how I did it the last time, because I was with a group of newbies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldirtbeard.9834 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I remember 4 manning that path with a non Zerker non Meta group prior to Heart of Thorns, I was a Hammer Guardian in Soldiers gear, there was a Thief, and two leveling players which were a Warrior and a Ranger, we died a lot but we eventually beat multiple paths. For the past 2 years I played Power Reaper exclusively because I couldn't stay alive on anything else in the Jungle. I'm not too sure what that says about you though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwolf.9571 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Dungeons aren't difficult if you have a person that knows the path guiding you. Otherwise it's a fresh learning experience! and fail like the rest of use learning in the very beginning \o/ I'm getting that point of content drought, and this thread might get me back to helping random pugs again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrag.9740 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"thrag.9740" said: > > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > > > @"thrag.9740" said: > > > > Anyone who thinks dungeon rewards are better now than before is dillusional. Run all the math you want, before hot you could pug consistently good dungeon groups who actually knew how to stealth skip and blast might/one shot bosses. Now you could post the most elitist lfg and still get complete beginners who think, 'lol it wasn't even filling up so I might as well join'. The biggest nerf to dungeon rewards wasn't the gold nerf, it was telling the players to stop running them. > > > > > > Noone in this thread have said that dungeon rewards are better now then before have you read it at all? > > > Its almost the same tho if you count everything not just the raw gold. > > > Before people did cof p1 250 times a day. ( exagerated alittle) > > > Now you have to do 8 dif paths and you can do that for the bonus chest however many times you like a day aswell. ( wont be as profitable after the first run tho) > > I originally appologized for misspeaking, but see my link below. It appears it was you who didn't read this thread at all. > > > > The fact your talking about when ppl ran cof many times a day after I mention stealth skips tells me you have no idea what your talking about, and are just quoting old stuff you saw around the old forums. I'm talking about the years prior to hot when there was a proper daily rewards system and people did large dungeon tours. You use to be able to post something like, 'arah p123 exp 80s, need 1 thief, 1 ps' and you would actually get a team that fit the description, knew how to do stealth, and you would run through constantly without any downtimes. > > > > Nowadays that lfg takes forever to fill, and more often than not, is filled with terribly unqualified players. You use to be able to hop into dungeons and just have smooth runs, now your expected to teach and explain every little thing, and if you complain about it your an elitist. Thieves running behind eles because they dont know the path rather than being leaders, ppl running condi builds, no one can use blinds, guards who cant reflect, groups that couldn't dodge lupi's aoe if you let them wipe at it for hours on end, no one has harpy feathers, no one runs potions, no one willing to kick players who are blatantly not meeting lfg standards. > > > > I was someone who ran dungeons back in that time, and I've tried running them post hot and post pof, its not even close, the community that actually knows how to do dungeons is gone, Anet saw to that personally. If your able to form a guild and build contacts, and have a predetermined time to do a full tour, sure maybe the modern rewards are competitive. But as for the much more common pug experience? Its not even close, dungeons are dead. > > > > I joined a raid lfg this week. 'w1234 full clear, need dps or druid'. I was with that group for about 4 hours. It would have been a sub 3 hour clear if we didn't keep having ppl leave/join. I can honestly say, since the release of hot I have never had 3 hours of dungeon pugging go anywhere near that smoothly. All the talent migrated to raids and fractals. > > Respect man! > > I used to do AC (3 paths), CM (3 path), TA (2 path), SE (2 path), CoF (1path) and CoE (3 path) in under 4 hours every day and usually I'd do some extra with 2 paths of HotW. Having the patience to go througth arah in a 3-4 hour run... Wow I didn't do that since the very early days of GW2. You really got all my respect here (and this is not sarcastic, I don't think I'd have the gut to suffer this now). no no no sorry, you misunderstand me. It was a raid wing 1234, so vale guardian through deimos, although realistically arah p 1234 might take just as long nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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