So how do you find mesmer now in your respective gamemode?

[MithranArkanere.8957]

I used to need several attacks to kill a mere normal enemy in PvE with the power builds. Now I can just throw a single phantasm. Even with the mesmer that only has the Soldier gear from a level 80 booster things just die in little time. The condition mirage with an scepter+pistol/axe+torch takes a bit longer, but as soon as they use a skill they trigger confusion and die, and while it's riskier against bosses since it spams less illusions, it comes with some block and stealth to break aggro, so it's still very safe.

 

In WvW it doesn't make that much of a difference in large scale battles, but there's now no single NPC enemy that I can't solo in relatively little time. This includes even the Overgrown grub in Eternal Battlegrounds. When roaming, enemies that are alone just mostly avoid me, and those who don't just die. You basically look at them and they just die. There's no evades and condition removal spam in the world that can survive all the illusion spam or enough stacks of confusion and torment.

 

PvP is similar. Spam enough illusions, enemies run out of defensive moves. They can never reach you. They either run away and try to fight someone else, or die.

 

So it'll probably get toned down a lot next balance pass.

[otto.5684]

I started the game playing Mesmer, mainly power build in PvE, but I stopped after branching into other classes that were far more effective.

 

Right now power Mesmer in PvE is awesome =) . Good sustainability, strong ranged weapon, good burst and good mobility. Mirage is extremely strong and survivable condi spec. In PvE, unless you do not like Mesmer play style, it is a great class.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> I used to need several attacks to kill a mere normal enemy in PvE with the power builds. Now I can just throw a single phantasm. Even with the mesmer that only has the Soldier gear from a level 80 booster things just die in little time. The condition mirage with an scepter+pistol/axe+torch takes a bit longer, but as soon as they use a skill they trigger confusion and die, and while it's riskier against bosses since it spams less illusions, it comes with some block and stealth to break aggro, so it's still very safe.

>

> In WvW it doesn't make that much of a difference in large scale battles, but there's now no single NPC enemy that I can't solo in relatively little time. This includes even the Overgrown grub in Eternal Battlegrounds. When roaming, enemies that are alone just mostly avoid me, and those who don't just die. You basically look at them and they just die. There's no evades and condition removal spam in the world that can survive all the illusion spam or enough stacks of confusion and torment.

>

> PvP is similar. Spam enough illusions, enemies run out of defensive moves. They can never reach you. They either run away and try to fight someone else, or die.

>

> So it'll probably get toned down a lot next balance pass.

 

Never had an issue with open world PvE when I would go so while the time to kill a mob is a little shorter oh well. I mean, it’s open world.

 

Yeah no big difference in large scale other than alacrity. Lol why on earth do you want to solo mobs outside of camps in WvW? There’s better things to do. Your enemy roamers are either 1) not roamers and trying to get to the zerg or 2) are only “roaming” to get camps not fights. With the nerf to confusion it’s not going to kill a competent player so again we go back to options 1 and 2. Torment might with a lack of cover conditions it’s easy to negate.

 

PvP- what are you in bronze? If they’re letting you spam GS or whatever they’re horrible players. I would know because I went from bronze to gold in a day spamming GS from a distance. It’s not overpowered, it’s just they suck. Once I hit gold guess what? People actually knew how to somewhat play the game! No more mindless spamming.

 

[MithranArkanere.8957]

> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > @"MithranArkanere.8957" said:

> > I used to need several attacks to kill a mere normal enemy in PvE with the power builds. Now I can just throw a single phantasm. Even with the mesmer that only has the Soldier gear from a level 80 booster things just die in little time. The condition mirage with an scepter+pistol/axe+torch takes a bit longer, but as soon as they use a skill they trigger confusion and die, and while it's riskier against bosses since it spams less illusions, it comes with some block and stealth to break aggro, so it's still very safe.

> >

> > In WvW it doesn't make that much of a difference in large scale battles, but there's now no single NPC enemy that I can't solo in relatively little time. This includes even the Overgrown grub in Eternal Battlegrounds. When roaming, enemies that are alone just mostly avoid me, and those who don't just die. You basically look at them and they just die. There's no evades and condition removal spam in the world that can survive all the illusion spam or enough stacks of confusion and torment.

> >

> > PvP is similar. Spam enough illusions, enemies run out of defensive moves. They can never reach you. They either run away and try to fight someone else, or die.

> >

> > So it'll probably get toned down a lot next balance pass.

>

> Never had an issue with open world PvE when I would go so while the time to kill a mob is a little shorter oh well. I mean, it’s open world.

>

> Yeah no big difference in large scale other than alacrity. Lol why on earth do you want to solo mobs outside of camps in WvW? There’s better things to do. Your enemy roamers are either 1) not roamers and trying to get to the zerg or 2) are only “roaming” to get camps not fights. With the nerf to confusion it’s not going to kill a competent player so again we go back to options 1 and 2. Torment might with a lack of cover conditions it’s easy to negate.

>

> PvP- what are you in bronze? If they’re letting you spam GS or whatever they’re horrible players. I would know because I went from bronze to gold in a day spamming GS from a distance. It’s not overpowered, it’s just they suck. Once I hit gold guess what? People actually knew how to somewhat play the game! No more mindless spamming.

>

 

Being dismissive, lying and mischaracterizing the posts of other players with assumptions has never stopped problematic balance problems from being addressed. It will eventually happen. Lashing about like Zhaitan at the end fight will not change the result. It will go down eventually. It makes you wonder why people keep trying.

 

* Normal enemies do not exist only in open world. When I say "normal enemy" I mean "an enemy of normal rank". That is, one that doesn't have a rank like veteran or champion. You can find those everywhere. Among them there's some that are stronger or weaker than average, like enemies in lover level areas, an enemies meat to be killed in large amount like 'hatchlings', or how normal enemies without rank are tougher in higher tier fractals and raids. But the average normal enemy that would last several hits from phantasms stuck to them now die from a single phantasm skill, no matter which one, all work. Things die before I even get to use a shatter. What used to take 3-5 seconds like an annoying mob attacking you while you were gathering a node now it's solved with a single phantasm skill. It's just one of the many ways to show how much stronger phantasms are now, that add up as you put them together. Do not like using a normal enemy as reference? Ok, we can use champions. Those are also in most PvE areas. They also go down in little time from a few phantasms, without a single scratch on the mesmer because there's so many illusions all over enemies won't even register player characters. Hell, in Verdant Brink I could do over 150 phantasms in a couple of minutes against champions in spots with 3 adrenaline mushrooms. Possibly more, I would know if the champions there lasted enough, which they didn't. Because power phantasm mesmer is stronger than it needs to be.

* Why killing the overgrown grub? Not just killing the overgrown grub. Killing it it relatively little time. The thing takes ages to solo even with DPS builds because it's usually scaled up to nearby players in the keep. An illusion spamming mesmer with flipping soldier gear can take it down in record time, while still being safer than any other build that can also take it down. I may only have rank 1300 or so, but that does not matter. Most people can easily tell who is and who isn't a roamer. It seems to be that for you 'roamer' is someone who does it successfully. NO. Roamer is whoever is roaming. You going around in desert borderlands soloing camps, sentinels, shrines and towers? Maybe hit a keep door once in a while to distract enemies? Boom, you are a roamer, no matter how good or bad they are at it, or whether you go solo or in a small group of roamers.

* This "what are you bronze?" argument is as pointless as dismissive. Something that is problematic at one rank is to be addressed even if it wasn't for legend players. As a matter of fact, it's even more important to tone down things that work too well too often at lower ranks. The reason is pretty simple: make the entry bad, players won't enter, game mode dies. Make up any excuses you want, you know this to be true, if you say you don't, you either lie or can't see reality. And the reality is that mindlessly spamming illusions works to well, too often at most ranks in PvP. This is not my personal experience. This is what anyone sees when they open their eyes, and my own rank in this account irrelevant to that discussion.

 

[Jace al Thor.6745]

If that’s what you think then hold on it’s gonna get more dismissive!

 

So you’re QQ’ing because Mesmer can FINALLY do any kind of open would content without handicapping itself? Outside of instanced content such as raids and fractals you were doing nothing but kicking yourself in the face because of how long it took to kill a “normal” mob. But you could roll any other class and breeze through them. There’s not a thing wrong with Mesmer being able to do it too.

Champions? Veterans? So what? It’s not like other classes couldn’t solo them if they wanted to. Again, nothing wrong with Mesmer being in a good spot for PvE.

 

LOL at your second point. The only people I see ever killing veteran mobs such as the grub are the same people that come in to do dailies and the moan and groan on the forums about how they were killed by roamers, don’t think it’s fair because they only want to do dailies and want an option that makes them immune to attacks so they can do dailies.

Now, the second part of point two- your rank means absolutely nothing. The thing with rank is anyone could get a high rank just by doing the K-Train in EOTM which is well... lol. So don’t even try to say they run because of your rank.

The other thing is that while your definition of roamer is correct, you seem to assume that they run because you’re a Mesmer. No, they run because either 1) they’re there for dailies and don’t want to fight or 2) are like half the people you find on any given map and will only fight if they outnumber you regardless of your class. This isn’t a Mesmer specific issues. I’ve been on ranger and had mesmers run into towers to avoid fights. But wait.. that doesn’t make sense because Mesmer is OP and needs nerfed right?

 

PvP- this has been talked to death since the day the game was released. Mesmer has been, and will always be, a noob killer. Do you realize how many people that are permantly stuck in low tiers would love for Mesmer to just be deleted? Lots. So balancing Mesmer around noobs is a horrible idea, the only way to truly make it noob friendly would be remove any trace of illusions. Also, PvP is essentially dead anyway. All it takes is one look at the PvP forums and que times to tell you that. Anet tried to make esports a thing, they failed because they didn’t have a viewer friendly game mode and it was hard for people not familiar with the game to follow. That combined with the lack of any significant new maps and game modes(Stronghold LOL) has essentially doomed PvP. Notice they’ve made it so you can’t 5 man que in ranked? That’s because the PvP player base has shrunk. Everyone one that wants a serious PvP game mode has moved on to other titles. The mode dying has nothing to do with whether Mesmer is good or bad, that’s on Anet. And guess what? That’s not an excuse, it’s a fact and if you can’t see that and want to blame it on Mesmer it’s not me that can’t see reality it’s you. And once again, mindlessly spamming illusions... doesn’t work. Why? Competent players already know not to try and 1v1 Mesmers. The class is s dueling spec plain and simple, it’s meant to hit hard and fast then get out much like thief. So good players already know how to counter that.

 

So, when it’s all said and done, Mesmer is in a great spot across the board. In PvE there is finally more than one build that can be played. WvW nothing has really changed outside the confusion nerf, Mesmer is still best at small scale fights and duels. PvP same thing, confusion nerf toned down the amount of condi users because it doesn’t carry as hard and power is coming back into favor but is easily shut down by competent players.

[zealex.9410]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > > > > > > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > > > > > > PvP: S+ tier.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Some Phantasms can hit for more than 50% of the average player HP with one shot (and then fire again because chrono) while the mesmer is using defensive stats and traits. It's an unbeatable 1v1 monster.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Mirage is broken too, mostly because it's impossible to CC them and they have thief-like mobility with amazing spammable burst and CCs.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Inclined to agree in many ways right now, but you gotta realize... This is the first major overhaul in GW2 for any class and as such it will take time to balance the scales. A major part of the problem in my personal opinion is that we’ve not gotten a major buff to our defensive stats since launch, whereas damage has more than tripled since.

> > > > > > We need a defensive stats overhaul to make PvP in any and all its forms, healthy again.

> > > > >

> > > > > Defensive stats are fine, just tone all classes down instead. Reduce condi and boon application across the board for a start

> > > > >

> > > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" I would say that rev needs an overhaul on this level. Their energy and legend mechanics are lazy, and need a real rework. I also think that thief would benefit a lot from a fundamental rework of how their initiative system works

> > > >

> > > > Upping everyones health in pvp and wvw is easier.

> > >

> > > Anet spent years removing stat-based defense from PvP gearing. What on earth makes you think that introducing game-wide passive defense power creep could possibly be anything but a disaster?

> >

> > Raising it to balance out the dmg that everyone deals will result in something closer to pre hot pvp and wvw. Removing defenses while upping the dmg wasnt a good way to go about it as we all saw and going to each end every skill and rebalanging its dmg amd boon condi aplication is too much work at this point.

>

> No it won't, it will just stretch out the time to kill someone marginally. Pre HoT PvP and WvW were different because builds _couldn't_ do everything at once like they can now. If they wanted to be tanky they had to sacrifice damage. If they wanted to be a glass cannon they didn't have huge amounts of passive defenses proccing every second. They didn't have dozens of dodges and evades on builds that can pump out tons of damage very quickly.

>

> Simply giving more defense to already existing builds will take us even farther away from where we were pre HoT, because it is giving even more defense to these glass cannon builds. The only real solution is to reduce how capable builds are. Reduce boon and condi output. Reduce how many things some skills are doing at once. Reduce the duration and/or size of some AoEs. Stop putting in so many skills with 1/4sec casts.

 

That if it should happen it shouldnt touch pve. Idk whats your stance in pve balance but theres been 2+ years with encounters being balanced with the current power lvls in mind it simply too much work in pve to change anything and it wont be worth much in the end because it will just dissatisfy the players. Im all for it happening in wvw and pvp since the players dont like the current gameplay supposedly and thats gonna improve the gameplay.

[zealex.9410]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > PvP: S+ tier.

> >

> > Some Phantasms can hit for more than 50% of the average player HP with one shot (and then fire again because chrono) while the mesmer is using defensive stats and traits. It's an unbeatable 1v1 monster.

> >

> > Mirage is broken too, mostly because it's impossible to CC them and they have thief-like mobility with amazing spammable burst and CCs.

>

> clearly clueless person either live in bronze-silver may be beginning of gold

> back to topic...

> pve almost havent changed... boon bot which gives much more frustration when playing... previously never had such feeling...

> some meme'ing with dps ,seems boring

> in pvp not really much changed for chrono , still wont be seen(most likely) or missed

 

haveing a hard time here seeing whos the clueless...

[OriOri.8724]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > > > > > > > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > > > > > > > PvP: S+ tier.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Some Phantasms can hit for more than 50% of the average player HP with one shot (and then fire again because chrono) while the mesmer is using defensive stats and traits. It's an unbeatable 1v1 monster.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Mirage is broken too, mostly because it's impossible to CC them and they have thief-like mobility with amazing spammable burst and CCs.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Inclined to agree in many ways right now, but you gotta realize... This is the first major overhaul in GW2 for any class and as such it will take time to balance the scales. A major part of the problem in my personal opinion is that we’ve not gotten a major buff to our defensive stats since launch, whereas damage has more than tripled since.

> > > > > > > We need a defensive stats overhaul to make PvP in any and all its forms, healthy again.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Defensive stats are fine, just tone all classes down instead. Reduce condi and boon application across the board for a start

> > > > > >

> > > > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" I would say that rev needs an overhaul on this level. Their energy and legend mechanics are lazy, and need a real rework. I also think that thief would benefit a lot from a fundamental rework of how their initiative system works

> > > > >

> > > > > Upping everyones health in pvp and wvw is easier.

> > > >

> > > > Anet spent years removing stat-based defense from PvP gearing. What on earth makes you think that introducing game-wide passive defense power creep could possibly be anything but a disaster?

> > >

> > > Raising it to balance out the dmg that everyone deals will result in something closer to pre hot pvp and wvw. Removing defenses while upping the dmg wasnt a good way to go about it as we all saw and going to each end every skill and rebalanging its dmg amd boon condi aplication is too much work at this point.

> >

> > No it won't, it will just stretch out the time to kill someone marginally. Pre HoT PvP and WvW were different because builds _couldn't_ do everything at once like they can now. If they wanted to be tanky they had to sacrifice damage. If they wanted to be a glass cannon they didn't have huge amounts of passive defenses proccing every second. They didn't have dozens of dodges and evades on builds that can pump out tons of damage very quickly.

> >

> > Simply giving more defense to already existing builds will take us even farther away from where we were pre HoT, because it is giving even more defense to these glass cannon builds. The only real solution is to reduce how capable builds are. Reduce boon and condi output. Reduce how many things some skills are doing at once. Reduce the duration and/or size of some AoEs. Stop putting in so many skills with 1/4sec casts.

>

> That if it should happen it shouldnt touch pve. Idk whats your stance in pve balance but theres been 2+ years with encounters being balanced with the current power lvls in mind it simply too much work in pve to change anything and it wont be worth much in the end because it will just dissatisfy the players. Im all for it happening in wvw and pvp since the players dont like the current gameplay supposedly and thats gonna improve the gameplay.

 

Some monsters would need to be adjusted, but I don't think that many would have to be adjusted honestly. Raids have a pretty high margin of error with current builds, and even if the absolute top damage builds were reduced to a flat 30K, raids would still be doable within the time limit. Sure, it would require more skill due to having less room for error, but it would still be doable (and some players would prefer that, lowering the margin of error I mean).

 

For open world -

 

* Core Tyria is fine

* HoT. Personally I think that this content would still be fine, and I say that as someone who can't solo champions. But I also don't think it would be that out of place to nerf HoT mobs if every class had its damage output nerfed through various means

* PoF. Mobs are overall significantly weaker than HoT mobs are with a few exceptions. The exceptions could be addressed, but overall nothing would have to be changed.

 

For WvW, players could solo camps before elite specs were released, and that isn't going to change if classes are brought more into line with where they should be.

[zealex.9410]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > > > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > > > > > > > > PvP: S+ tier.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Some Phantasms can hit for more than 50% of the average player HP with one shot (and then fire again because chrono) while the mesmer is using defensive stats and traits. It's an unbeatable 1v1 monster.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Mirage is broken too, mostly because it's impossible to CC them and they have thief-like mobility with amazing spammable burst and CCs.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Inclined to agree in many ways right now, but you gotta realize... This is the first major overhaul in GW2 for any class and as such it will take time to balance the scales. A major part of the problem in my personal opinion is that we’ve not gotten a major buff to our defensive stats since launch, whereas damage has more than tripled since.

> > > > > > > > We need a defensive stats overhaul to make PvP in any and all its forms, healthy again.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Defensive stats are fine, just tone all classes down instead. Reduce condi and boon application across the board for a start

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" I would say that rev needs an overhaul on this level. Their energy and legend mechanics are lazy, and need a real rework. I also think that thief would benefit a lot from a fundamental rework of how their initiative system works

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Upping everyones health in pvp and wvw is easier.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anet spent years removing stat-based defense from PvP gearing. What on earth makes you think that introducing game-wide passive defense power creep could possibly be anything but a disaster?

> > > >

> > > > Raising it to balance out the dmg that everyone deals will result in something closer to pre hot pvp and wvw. Removing defenses while upping the dmg wasnt a good way to go about it as we all saw and going to each end every skill and rebalanging its dmg amd boon condi aplication is too much work at this point.

> > >

> > > No it won't, it will just stretch out the time to kill someone marginally. Pre HoT PvP and WvW were different because builds _couldn't_ do everything at once like they can now. If they wanted to be tanky they had to sacrifice damage. If they wanted to be a glass cannon they didn't have huge amounts of passive defenses proccing every second. They didn't have dozens of dodges and evades on builds that can pump out tons of damage very quickly.

> > >

> > > Simply giving more defense to already existing builds will take us even farther away from where we were pre HoT, because it is giving even more defense to these glass cannon builds. The only real solution is to reduce how capable builds are. Reduce boon and condi output. Reduce how many things some skills are doing at once. Reduce the duration and/or size of some AoEs. Stop putting in so many skills with 1/4sec casts.

> >

> > That if it should happen it shouldnt touch pve. Idk whats your stance in pve balance but theres been 2+ years with encounters being balanced with the current power lvls in mind it simply too much work in pve to change anything and it wont be worth much in the end because it will just dissatisfy the players. Im all for it happening in wvw and pvp since the players dont like the current gameplay supposedly and thats gonna improve the gameplay.

>

> Some monsters would need to be adjusted, but I don't think that many would have to be adjusted honestly. Raids have a pretty high margin of error with current builds, and even if the absolute top damage builds were reduced to a flat 30K, raids would still be doable within the time limit. Sure, it would require more skill due to having less room for error, but it would still be doable (and some players would prefer that, lowering the margin of error I mean).

>

> For open world -

>

> * Core Tyria is fine

> * HoT. Personally I think that this content would still be fine, and I say that as someone who can't solo champions. But I also don't think it would be that out of place to nerf HoT mobs if every class had its damage output nerfed through various means

> * PoF. Mobs are overall significantly weaker than HoT mobs are with a few exceptions. The exceptions could be addressed, but overall nothing would have to be changed.

>

> For WvW, players could solo camps before elite specs were released, and that isn't going to change if classes are brought more into line with where they should be.

 

New fractals and reworked would need adjusting raids would need adjusting. Players dont want kills to take extra 2 mins to clear. Again for pvp this is fine for pve its not needed.

[Imperadordf.2687]

I liked all the changes except the ones to alacrity, but after playing... it feels... brainless :pensive:

**WvW**

I ran a GS+Sword/Pistol build in WvW with Berserker gear, Scholar runes and Force/Energy sigils. Domination/Illusions/Chronomancer. iDisenchanter hitting for 11K to glasses. Stealth GS burst deletes everybody, even tanks.

 

Haven’t tried Mirage yet, but it seems like it’s sustain and overall damage is better now.

 

**PvP**

Power Mirage is too mobile and there is almost no downside to compensate. Maybe low condition removal.

 

Condition Mirage is not that oppressive, but still not hard to play.

 

Power Chronomancer is... ugh. Unfun to play as and against.

 

**Raids**

 

Keeping up %100 uptime on Quickness + Alacrity in Raids is easier than ever.

We can no longer distort or aegis anything now.

Condition Mirage rotation is easier now.

Power Chronomancer (as DPS) is the only thing I find fun to play now due to it’s *complex* rotation.

 

They took almost everything that differs a good Mesmer from a bad Mesmer. At least to me. Lowering the skill gap will never give good results Arenanet. Never.

[Hibiskus.8294]

How i feel now after this change? Well some ppl like the change, some not...i am one of the ppl that dont like the change, before i was feeling like i had a choice: a phantasm that does some dmg, but better it takes the aggro so that i was not the target any time (ok i must given my phantasm the "more live" upgrades but that was worth it) or shatter them for one dmg burst and remove some conditions.......it was an active gameplay with lots of possibilitys and good survivability in pve....also i miss the trait for close range combat where you get regeneration from nearby phantasms........

 

Now i feel like: i must shatter all the time no matter what, just bring out as much dmg as i can, since i dont have any phantasms that could get the aggro, the clones are to fragile to hold the aggro they die fast, so shatter, shatter, shatter, lots of heal and run.....ok we have now a phamtasmal defender that taunts our enemies, but wooohooo it changes after that to a clone....also it feels like a MUST HAVE now in pve and i have the feeling that i make low dmg now compared to before...and yes i looked through the skills, optimized my build but....still i have the feeling that i die much more.....and yes i know there are ppl that figured out new builds, but thee builds are not my beloved playstyle, i cant feel the "glittering" in these builds, that made my heart say: "YES, this is me".....

 

So, my feeling is: after playing 3 years just mesmer and having a lots of fun, now i feel like i wasted 3 years on a character that is now totally not my style anymore, it makes no fun at all and it is time they bring in a class change possibility.....then 3 years again for completing a map, playing the story, bring crafting to max, farming good gear and weapons...that i dont will do...i mean: maybe i bring another character this lvl and then they decide to change it completly? No way.....

 

Mesmer dont feel like a mesmer anymore, it feels like a glass cannon with low dmg, low heal possibilitys, low surviability, maybe these changes are ok for pvp / wvw ppl, but i as pve ppl with hoards of enemies, feel like my glittering, cool mesmer is now an old, weak, no longer shining butterfly.....so i decided to play something else....i dont know what, to be honest, but gw2 has killed my only char that was that far....maybe i log in for some goodies, but active playing?...for the next weeks, i dont feel like i would do that, no changes that i hoped for happened....just some that i never imagined....and i dont like these changes........... :'(

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"Hibiskus.8294" said:

> How i feel now after this change? Well some ppl like the change, some not...i am one of the ppl that dont like the change, before i was feeling like i had a choice: a phantasm that does some dmg, but better it takes the aggro so that i was not the target any time (ok i must given my phantasm the "more live" upgrades but that was worth it) or shatter them for one dmg burst and remove some conditions.......it was an active gameplay with lots of possibilitys and good survivability in pve....also i miss the trait for close range combat where you get regeneration from nearby phantasms........

>

> Now i feel like: i must shatter all the time no matter what, just bring out as much dmg as i can, since i dont have any phantasms that could get the aggro, the clones are to fragile to hold the aggro they die fast, so shatter, shatter, shatter, lots of heal and run.....ok we have now a phamtasmal defender that taunts our enemies, but wooohooo it changes after that to a clone....also it feels like a MUST HAVE now in pve and i have the feeling that i make low dmg now compared to before...and yes i looked through the skills, optimized my build but....still i have the feeling that i die much more.....and yes i know there are ppl that figured out new builds, but thee builds are not my beloved playstyle, i cant feel the "glittering" in these builds, that made my heart say: "YES, this is me".....

>

> So, my feeling is: after playing 3 years just mesmer and having a lots of fun, now i feel like i wasted 3 years on a character that is now totally not my style anymore, it makes no fun at all and it is time they bring in a class change possibility.....then 3 years again for completing a map, playing the story, bring crafting to max, farming good gear and weapons...that i dont will do...i mean: maybe i bring another character this lvl and then they decide to change it completly? No way.....

>

> Mesmer dont feel like a mesmer anymore, it feels like a glass cannon with low dmg, low heal possibilitys, low surviability, maybe these changes are ok for pvp / wvw ppl, but i as pve ppl with hoards of enemies, feel like my glittering, cool mesmer is now an old, weak, no longer shining butterfly.....so i decided to play something else....i dont know what, to be honest, but gw2 has killed my only char that was that far....maybe i log in for some goodies, but active playing?...for the next weeks, i dont feel like i would do that, no changes that i hoped for happened....just some that i never imagined....and i dont like these changes........... :'(

 

So from what I can infer you obviously do PvE, do you just do open world, world bosses, etc or fractals/raids? What build and gear stats are you running?

The phantasm change has made life easier imo. Now you don’t have to worry about getting three phantasms was up just to do damage. You essentially fire and forget. Clones can still take aggro but the way the aggro table works you’ll get it most of the time anyway.

I fail to see how you’ve lost damage when there are people setting record benchmarks for Mesmer. Never has Mesmer had this many builds/damage available to us before, for the first time in years we’re pushing out competitive damage. Maybe it’s your build or weapon set, not sure but I’m sure someone can help you out with that. Not to mention Anet has stated in the past Mesmer was supposed to be shattering. It’s why they got rid of on clone death traits, we are supposed to shatter.

As far as survival... Anet’s going back to what they believe the purpose of Mesmer is supposed to be. A mobile, hard to hit, hits hard and fast, but once pinned weak. This was shown when they removed retaliation and blind from chaos armor and other things. There’s still an abundance of skills to use to survive. Maybe running a condi build would be best for you so you can utilize stealth to avoid aggro while managing clones. It may be slower than power and stealth isn’t optimal in PvE but you’ll survive.

 

 

[zealex.9410]

> @"Imperadordf.2687" said:

> I liked all the changes except the ones to alacrity, but after playing... it feels... brainless :pensive:

> **WvW**

> I ran a GS+Sword/Pistol build in WvW with Berserker gear, Scholar runes and Force/Energy sigils. Domination/Illusions/Chronomancer. iDisenchanter hitting for 11K to glasses. Stealth GS burst deletes everybody, even tanks.

>

> Haven’t tried Mirage yet, but it seems like it’s sustain and overall damage is better now.

>

> **PvP**

> Power Mirage is too mobile and there is almost no downside to compensate. Maybe low condition removal.

>

> Condition Mirage is not that oppressive, but still not hard to play.

>

> Power Chronomancer is... ugh. Unfun to play as and against.

>

> **Raids**

>

> Keeping up %100 uptime on Quickness + Alacrity in Raids is easier than ever.

> We can no longer distort or aegis anything now.

> Condition Mirage rotation is easier now.

> Power Chronomancer (as DPS) is the only thing I find fun to play now due to it’s *complex* rotation.

>

> They took almost everything that differs a good Mesmer from a bad Mesmer. At least to me. Lowering the skill gap will never give good results Arenanet. Never.

 

How is condition mirage easier? it literally got more buttons since the update :/ as for quickness/ alac ye its even easier which is sad.

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"zealex.9410" said:

> > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > > > > @"zealex.9410" said:

> > > > > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > > > > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > > > > > > > @"witcher.3197" said:

> > > > > > > > PvP: S+ tier.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Some Phantasms can hit for more than 50% of the average player HP with one shot (and then fire again because chrono) while the mesmer is using defensive stats and traits. It's an unbeatable 1v1 monster.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Mirage is broken too, mostly because it's impossible to CC them and they have thief-like mobility with amazing spammable burst and CCs.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Inclined to agree in many ways right now, but you gotta realize... This is the first major overhaul in GW2 for any class and as such it will take time to balance the scales. A major part of the problem in my personal opinion is that we’ve not gotten a major buff to our defensive stats since launch, whereas damage has more than tripled since.

> > > > > > > We need a defensive stats overhaul to make PvP in any and all its forms, healthy again.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Defensive stats are fine, just tone all classes down instead. Reduce condi and boon application across the board for a start

> > > > > >

> > > > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" I would say that rev needs an overhaul on this level. Their energy and legend mechanics are lazy, and need a real rework. I also think that thief would benefit a lot from a fundamental rework of how their initiative system works

> > > > >

> > > > > Upping everyones health in pvp and wvw is easier.

> > > >

> > > > Anet spent years removing stat-based defense from PvP gearing. What on earth makes you think that introducing game-wide passive defense power creep could possibly be anything but a disaster?

> > >

> > > Raising it to balance out the dmg that everyone deals will result in something closer to pre hot pvp and wvw. Removing defenses while upping the dmg wasnt a good way to go about it as we all saw and going to each end every skill and rebalanging its dmg amd boon condi aplication is too much work at this point.

> >

> > No it won't, it will just stretch out the time to kill someone marginally. Pre HoT PvP and WvW were different because builds _couldn't_ do everything at once like they can now. If they wanted to be tanky they had to sacrifice damage. If they wanted to be a glass cannon they didn't have huge amounts of passive defenses proccing every second. They didn't have dozens of dodges and evades on builds that can pump out tons of damage very quickly.

> >

> > Simply giving more defense to already existing builds will take us even farther away from where we were pre HoT, because it is giving even more defense to these glass cannon builds. The only real solution is to reduce how capable builds are. Reduce boon and condi output. Reduce how many things some skills are doing at once. Reduce the duration and/or size of some AoEs. Stop putting in so many skills with 1/4sec casts.

>

> That if it should happen it shouldnt touch pve. Idk whats your stance in pve balance but theres been 2+ years with encounters being balanced with the current power lvls in mind it simply too much work in pve to change anything and it wont be worth much in the end because it will just dissatisfy the players. Im all for it happening in wvw and pvp since the players dont like the current gameplay supposedly and thats gonna improve the gameplay.

 

There's no such thing as a meta or honestly even relative balance in PvE, though. It's just players continuously optimizing to make the content be completed faster. And then the toxic and exclusive communities start only demanding optimal results not because of success rate but because it's faster/optimized. You can complete the content on literally anything. It's designed to be that way.

 

For this reason, things will only ever change when there's a blatantly overpowered/underpowered set of classes. You can't achieve perfect numerical balance with any semblance of diversity in these kinds of games. It just isn't feasible on the theoretical level. That's PvE's problem, especially because basically every major encounter is approached the same: negate the big nukes with active defenses, spam boons, and then just DPS rush it down.

 

You can still solo Arah with a specific core warrior build and just facetank all the bosses while honestly barely needing to even dodge. People just don't do it because it takes 20 minutes to then kill Lupi as a 5-man. But it makes the dungeon trivially easy to the point nobody should die.

 

The only way to "balance" PvE is to balance PvP first and then make the encounters in PvE reflect PvP, and structure new PvE content to reflect the at-the-time PvP meta.

That, or completely randomize how bosses approach things such that you have no idea what to expect until the fight begins. Will the boss spam boons but have terrible base stats? Run a constant stream of immunities? Stack resistance and tons of cleanses? That's about the only way to shut down the notion of a pre-configured optimization and remove the "meta."

 

Because defenses have been powercreeped into absurdity since HoT. I played S/S warrior and mesmer with fair success because it had enough defenses from ripostes to carry me.

[OriOri.8724]

I don't agree that balancing PvP first will then lead to a more balanced PvE. Unless I misunderstood. Did you mean that by balancing classes around PvP, and in the process drastically reducing the powercreep that has happened with and since HoT, and then balancing PvE around classes that are fundamentally more balanced due to being forced to make concessions in their builds?

[Rashagar.8349]

Just coming here to say that, as a person who always preferred phantasms conceptually to clones, I actually really like the changes they implemented and am optimistic for the future.

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > > > @"Pyroatheist.9031" said:

> > > > > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said:

> > > > > Overall i feel the nerf, as well as others in my guild. Its def noticeable and i dont know what ppl are talking about with "double mind wrack" talk lol

> > > >

> > > > What nerf?

> > >

> > > The one were everyone that was running trailblazer condi or PvP condi mirage can’t stack confusion now has to regear and can’t spam confusion on people with no condi clear?

> > > Other than that I can’t think of a big nerf.

> >

> > good thing no one said anything about a "big" nerf ;)

>

> I mean, condition mirage still works without regearing, you just rely on torment instead. It's more vulnerable to condition removal due to lack of condition variety, but it's hardly a non-functional build.

 

I never said it was non-functional. You gotta read every word i type bai.

 

I stated i can feel the nerf. Less damaging cover condis, pretty much a rough overall ~60% reduced duration to condis means less overall damage. Only good thing was the phantasm on torch is fun...however the warmup is a tad too long.