Rank-Conquest has got to go!

[Vieux P.1238]

Yes i said it! No one else. Yeah yeah i can hear the rants & all the multi excuses vs my point. But hear this for a sec.... You got to agree. No matter how many times Anet balances the classes. No matter how many times Anet makes up new changes to matchmaking & spvp conquest. No matter how good or how new you are in this game mode. **CONQUEST WILL PUNISH YOU IF YOU DON'T GO BY THE NUMBERS.** I said it & i said it before. It takes only one player in your team to F it up. & it punishes you & the whole team no matter what. In most of the time there's no catching up. Conquest in RANK, has got to be replaced by an other game mode that does not punish the whole match for you or another that messed up. That AFK's. That Wintrade's. That hacks. There is no but's about it. Rank deserve a new look at it's core game mode & replaced by a new one. Keep conquest in unrank.

[pah.4931]

Agreed. However, I don't think any game mode will fix the problem you're talking about. Wintrading and AFKing woulds till happen in Death Matches or Capture the Flag and it would be equally as crippling. UNLESS the game was like 40v40 Alterac Valley type maps, where you have too many people to throw.

 

The problem is less game mode and more solo-q ranked system. There is no world where a solo-q random-generated team -- with ranks based on wins -- will ever be enjoyable. You hear people complaining about in almost every tier. It's doesn't create a healthy environment at all and the only result is rage (or a near nihilistic acceptance lol).

[Exciton.8942]

You know as long as it is a team-based PvP game. There will be such problems.

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"Exciton.8942" said:

> You know as long as it is a team-based PvP game. There will be such problems.

 

At certain levels you right. But i'm hopeful. I'm willing to bet that either players or Devs can be crafty anoth to design a game mode with it's map that removes all does problems. I always say, **keep it simple stupid** at first & develop from there. I can design a game mode that's a death match that involves from 1v1 to 3v3 & still be forgiven when making mistakes. I bet any of you could. & there should be a design contest to the first simple none conquest game mode that is forgiving when making mistakes. I'll Enter myself!

[whoknocks.4935]

The problem is the different skill level between the players.

It is like in a 1vs1 game mode, a first time pvp player get matched with the top pvp player obviously more experience.

 

In conquest mode the better team, the team with people with higher knowledge and skill among the 5 players wins, simple as that.

 

Let's make an example: skill and knowledge level of a single player scale from 1 to 10.

 

Your team skill level:

#1player 5

#2player 4

#3player 5

#4player 5

#You 10

Total skill level: 29

 

Opponent team skill level:

#1player 6

#2player 8

#3player 8

#4player 7

#5player 10

Total skill level: 39

 

This happens because the matchmaker can't evaluate every single person skill level and so they get mixed random, like those people got carried by scourge to plat rank, they don't actually belong even silver rank, but the matchmaker sees them as plat level and match them with other plats which very luckily are better than that player, so people are just matched random and it is impossible to have a balanced matchmaking in this gamemode unfortunately when your rank for the 80% depends on your luck on the skill of your team mates and 20% on your skill level.

[Ziggityzog.7389]

Circlequest should never have become the "main" game mode. I'm sorry it was a fun idea but it just isn't competitive. But sadly 5+ years later here we are with non competitive ranked and ATs and a failed run at ESL.

 

If only we had real PVP like gw1 and TDM then maybe gw2 pvp would have some hope.

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"whoknocks.4935" said:

> The problem is the different skill level between the players.

> It is like in a 1vs1 game mode, a first time pvp player get matched with the top pvp player obviously more experience.

>

> In conquest mode the better team, the team with people with higher knowledge and skill among the 5 players wins, simple as that.

>

> Let's make an example: skill and knowledge level of a single player scale from 1 to 10.

>

> Your team skill level:

> #1player 5

> #2player 4

> #3player 5

> #4player 5

> #You 10

> Total skill level: 29

>

> Opponent team skill level:

> #1player 6

> #2player 8

> #3player 8

> #4player 7

> #5player 10

> Total skill level: 39

>

> This happens because the matchmaker can't evaluate every single person skill level and so they get mixed random, like those people got carried by scourge to plat rank, they don't actually belong even silver rank, but the matchmaker sees them as plat level and match them with other plats which very luckily are better than that player, so people are just matched random and it is impossible to have a balanced matchmaking in this gamemode unfortunately when your rank for the 80% depends on your luck on the skill of your team mates and 20% on your skill level.

 

Nothing you said is new. It's been said before. We know all this & you need to forget skill levels & matchmaking. Cuz both don't work in conquest spvp. Skill levels or game mode does not forgive mistakes. That is why conquest has to be droped from rank & replace with something else that does forgive mistakes or skill level's. **It's all about the game mode. Nothing else. **

[Exedore.6320]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > @"Exciton.8942" said:

> > You know as long as it is a team-based PvP game. There will be such problems.

>

> At certain levels you right. But i'm hopeful. I'm willing to bet that either players or Devs can be crafty anoth to design a game mode with it's map that removes all does problems. I always say, **keep it simple stupid** at first & develop from there. I can design a game mode that's a death match that involves from 1v1 to 3v3 & still be forgiven when making mistakes. I bet any of you could. & there should be a design contest to the first simple none conquest game mode that is forgiving when making mistakes. I'll Enter myself!

 

If such a game mode existed, every online team-based game would be using it. You can't design a team-based game where part of the team is inconsequential.

 

[Vieux P.1238]

Here is that word again, can't. I beg to disagree!

[Malafaia.8903]

I think evaluating players solo performance in a match and rewarding pips/ rank that way could be an improve.

[flog.3485]

Your complain thread doesn't make any sense....Any PvP team based game will have this sort of problem you are talking about.

 

In guild wars or example, any bad monk would make you team lose the game because...they could be purposefully playing bad for gold, they could be trolling with a 55 hp build, they could be using non meta build that would get wrecked against the pressure of a mesmer, an assassin or a warrior or whatever or they would be plain bad a PvP no matter the balance design choices of any devs whatsoever.

[beno.7985]

make ranked 2v2, 3v3 team deathmatch.... This is PvP.. What we have is not PvP.. its capture the point. Basicly you can say GW2 doesnt have PvP mode... So yeah.. Pls anet?

[BeLZedaR.4790]

Oh no the game mode is competitive so what you do actually matters and can impact the whole team.

The problem is not the mode is the players being bad / throwing. No one can fix the players but themselves.

[pah.4931]

> @"BeLZedaR.4790" said:

> Oh no the game mode is competitive so what you do actually matters and can impact the whole team.

> The problem is not the mode is the players being bad / throwing. No one can fix the players but themselves.

 

The game mode is fine for 5-man premade teams with comms. It's bad for solo-q ranked play.

 

Had they been introducing tons of different maps/modes over the last 5 years, PvP would be completely different today. And much, much better.

[MarshallLaw.9260]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> Yes i said it! No one else. Yeah yeah i can hear the rants & all the multi excuses vs my point. But hear this for a sec.... You got to agree. No matter how many times Anet balances the classes. No matter how many times Anet makes up new changes to matchmaking & spvp conquest. No matter how good or how new you are in this game mode. **CONQUEST WILL PUNISH YOU IF YOU DON'T GO BY THE NUMBERS.** I said it & i said it before. It takes only one player in your team to F it up. & it punishes you & the whole team no matter what. In most of the time there's no catching up. Conquest in RANK, has got to be replaced by an other game mode that does not punish the whole match for you or another that messed up. That AFK's. That Wintrade's. That hacks. There is no but's about it. Rank deserve a new look at it's core game mode & replaced by a new one. Keep conquest in unrank.

 

With all due respect, you're far from the first person to suggest this. There are plenty of other threads with the same idea.

Personally I would say a major issue with removing conquest would be the lack of alternative **feasible** ideas. Stat measuring is not as in-depth in GW2 PvP as in other games like combat-focused MOBAs. The extent to which these numbers are measured is pretty much what you see at the end of each match - the "top healing", "top offence" , etc. Most people would say these are not relative to the impact a player has on a single match. e.g. if a player gets "most kills", are they actually the best at beating people or just happen to get most last hits? As a result it is difficult to gauge the true contribution of any player.

Conquest might not be the "best" mode, but I believe death-match had more issues when that was tested.

The biggest two problems facing players in pvp are .1 other players and (to a smaller degree) .2 balance.

The first request for ANet should really be to crack down on those abusing the system and disadvantaging other un-involved players.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

One thing i will agree upon is that there should be preventive measures against camping enemy base after a won team fight.

I know that "survival of the fittest" but conquest isn't only about who fights better it also rewards cunning and map awareness. Even if you suck in a brawl, by being on top of objectives and good rotation you can still come up on top.

 

But in many games there is not such thing happening as it's just 5 bullies at entrance to your base and gg. Boring and not fun to watch.

In league of legens there are towers to prevent such "teamfight #1" stomps, making sure that if enemy team snowballs and you're getting stomped into the ground, it's only because you f-up again and again, and not because you lost first teamfight and hello, they're at your nexus now.

 

And i personally love conquest mode, prefer it far more to boring deathmatches. Capture points enforce build diversity (roamers, bunkers, decappers, snipers etc), dynamic matches (people roaming between points and map objectives make for various interesting encounters and strategies) and giving less talented fighters a shot at victory if they show to have better map awarness and coordination at getting map objectives.

 

Deathmatches usually ended if each group clumping to cluster of 5 behind a wall and then dropping ranged and aoe nukes on the enemy, hoping someone will make a mistake and they'll get a kill starting a snowball. Then off to enemy team's base door and game of siege begun....no fun.

[Exedore.6320]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> Here is that word again, can't. I beg to disagree!

The difference with what you're asking for is that you have two opposing goals. The essence of a team game is that all players on the team matter. But you're asking that some players don't matter.

 

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"Exedore.6320" said:

> > @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> > Here is that word again, can't. I beg to disagree!

> The difference with what you're asking for is that you have two opposing goals. The essence of a team game is that all players on the team matter. But you're asking that some players don't matter.

>

 

Where did i say that?

[ReaverKane.7598]

> @"Exciton.8942" said:

> You know as long as it is a team-based PvP game. There will be such problems.

 

But it's a team-based game where teams were disallowed.

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"ReaverKane.7598" said:

> > @"Exciton.8942" said:

> > You know as long as it is a team-based PvP game. There will be such problems.

>

> But it's a team-based game where teams were disallowed.

 

In conquest absolutely...100% right. Much less of a chance in 1v1 2v2 3v3 team death match. With some tweaking even better chances. Adding more players in a team death match will be less & less balance. Espacially with the metas. But we are talking about competitive rank. & i would settle for now for Rank 1v1 to a max 3v3 death match. Wintrade will remain as for speed hacks and all.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

who ever said at anet that conquest should be the only game mode is dead wrong. I still to this day cant understand the reasoning, and it hurts to think about how much pvp I've played even tho I don't like the mode.

there. needs. to. be. more. CHOICES!!!!!!

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"ZerotheFang.5890" said:

> all i hearing is you want an easy way out here is an idea learn the maps, maybe people stop yelling at you or better yet stay in unranked, if ranked mode leaves then most likely you will be left with a dead pvp queue so get over it get a better build or stop playing metabattle.com builds. the other mode for pvp is kinda dead and the issue i see with a lot of matches are people giving up or complaining that its someone else fault like the thief or then necro when they are the ones using a basic set up and walking into aoe and dying in 1 hit cause they selected zerker necklace and wrong rune cause they thought their pve build works in pvp or wasting time typing instead of looking at the match or sitting there in back pouting like a moba player cause they are not wining by 10 points.

>

> and for oh it because scrouge or spellbreaker or _____ class is overpowered learn to counter them by using things like range or better yet a basic power build. i have a guild mate using basic heal guardian and he can bunker and out heal most builds currently and he is in plat. so complaining about a mode needs to go says you need to go find another mode to play.

 

You think after 5 years of the same old conquest maps that the solution is the same old L2p excuse? Really? Ppl complaining about on how it's somebody fault is right. It could be there's as it could be some one elses. My point is that these conquest map will not excuse any kind of mistake done by one player on either teams at the detriment of losing any kind of leverage. I can't stop pushing the fact that conquest is an unforgiving game mode with No leeway for mistakes or noob players. & your wondering why ppl rage at this one player becuz he din't do well or played his role? No wonder there's so much frustration & toxicaty. Anet can't solve matchmaking & they can't solve balance so at least have them solve Rank Frustration by just removing Conquest entirely From Rank. & Replacing it with Rank 1v1, 2v,2 or maybe 3v3 death match. It's not gonna be perfect but i can guaranty it's gonna be better then this BS.

[Ziggityzog.7389]

It's sad when after 5+ years we are still playing speedmatch pvp. There is no skill required when all you have to do is reroll as a speedy teef with shortbow and ___ .

 

Stealth run decap, try to +1 a 1v1 fight just to stealth out and run to decap again.

 

Sorry but pvp should never have been purely circlequest. A game mode that requires 100% coordination and voice chat is not good for just random teams put together. Unless it's separate leaderboard for 2,3, and 5 person teams and a leaderboard for solo queue only then this might work.

 

But in reality fighting invisible circles to win a match doesn't make for good pvp. After playing gw1 and the epic pvp it had then coming to circlequest pvp sucks. After seasons 1-7 now I just play unranked stronghold. Least all the garbage like bots and hackers are playing in ranked.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Just.... re-enable 5 man ques. Match manipulation players throwing on your team get blocked from joining your team this way. Easy fix. Oh some players don't want to play in or against 5 man teams? Well I say that's their own fault and I have to seriously ask them this question and give them this statement:

* Question = Would you rather lose to people throwing the match or to people trying hard who actually took the time to form a real team?

* Statement = You do realize that when you lose a game to match manipulation, it's still a team of 3 to 5 guys running on alts to support 1 main who are doing it to you... premades still exist bros.

 

The only answer is to be able to block the throwing on your team = 5 man ques

[Vieux P.1238]

Sigh,.....seems some ppl forgot on how bad the 5 men team Q was. With all do respect..5 men teams did not work & was removed for good reason. & counting me, many wer glad it was. It was BaD! With a capital B.