PvP/WvW Skill Split Release

[Clownmug.8357]

I'm pleasantly surprised by these balance revisions. Glad to see those damage buffs to certain thief skills weren't permitted. Mesmer changes also seem to have been given thoughtful consideration this time. In addition to those elementalist changes, I think the goal of balancing instant attacks is finally being achieved.

[Kasdwer.3721]

> @"Clownmug.8357" said:

> I'm pleasantly surprised by these balance revisions. Glad to see those damage buffs to certain thief skills weren't permitted. Mesmer changes also seem to have been given thoughtful consideration this time. In addition to those elementalist changes, I think the goal of balancing instant attacks is finally being achieved.

yeah this pesky dp thiefs that were in every game, they sure needed these 30% dmg nerf without any compensation!

i just hope they update the list again and make the 30% into like 15% nerf or something, a 15% nerf and 30% for both main abilitys on a build that is neither even considered meta or people complained about is just suicidal

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > >

> > > Great list hmmm....are you still on board with nerfing stability on corona blast? Last update you decided to limit the stability application to actual hit rather than free stability application

> >

> > Yeah, that's still happening.

>

> Can I ask why? Are other melee classes getting their evades/blocks/stability reduced as well? I know some zerk warriors who just won't die. Or is it just holo that's getting its defenses singled out in that regard? Because engineer's Photon Forge features no blocks and no built-in evades, unlike thief or warrior. The stability is a practical necessity as it exists, and nerfing it will not push engineers towards using any of the other master tier traits.

>

> I hope you'll also consider [my suggestion to buff other parts of core engineer and scrapper](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/411445/#Comment_411445 "my suggestion to buff other parts of core engineer and scrapper") so that the class isn't completely pointless in PvP too.

 

They are in fact. Most melee class have their passive procs and stab reduced. Since you're interested in warrior, they took substantial hit with their balance stance proc going to 90s. S/D acro thief is also taking huge hit with hard to catch and instant reflex/pain response going to 40 or 90s as well. Sure they'll still proc at the first moment of the fight, but they're unlikely going to proc again unless fight drags on more than it should.

 

On the other hand corona burst is still on 6s CD with only requirement is hitting in melee range. I played holo fair bit and from my experience its not difficult to maintain 300 range for corona burst to keep stab, especially as holo most of your fight **should be** in melee range. This change just means holo can't use it before they close into enemy or proc it when getting away.

[BABE.6384]

@"Ben Phongluangtham.1065"

I am extremely disappointed with zero additional changes to renegade, and only one more to Revenant.

I have an extensive list of changes to its skills usability and strength, that I believe would make it feel balanced and strong in a team wvw/pvp setting.

and should do so without changing their strength in PvE much imo.

 

Shortbow #2 cast time should be less.

Shortbow #3 is completely useless in pvp outside of a body cleaving situation.

Shortbow #5 needs to be fixed so you can not jump over the shock wave and negate the attack. (including using leap abilities)

(In general some leap abilities jump over other skills, Holo leap vs Polaric Leap being a very frustrating and fight turning example, that I have experienced on the ele side many times.)

 

Hopefully the change to Razorclaw's Rage feels better, because honestly that skill never even felt worth casting.

 

And lastly for specific skills Citadel Bombardment could use a smaller spread or wider explosion radius,

this would allow it to be more consistent in hitting people that are ALIVE.

Otherwise less cast time and energy drain could also make it feel more worth using in a cleaving body situation, where there is no issues with it connecting to your target.

In its current form I only cast Citadel Bombardment maybe once every 5-10 pvp matches on Renegade.

 

I have had some decent success in platinum pvp with a few different renegade builds.

However it is HEAVILY impaired by its cast times with the amount of cc spam in team fights. Which does make it rather lackluster in full 5v5s, especially if you get focused.

Those two combined make it a very hard battle to get any leeching combos off with your elite, to be able to sustain with Kalla in team fights.

 

What I would actually say the WORST issue with Renegade is related to cc as well...

Whenever a summon is cc'd, even by a 1/4 sec daze. They sit around for what seems to be 2-3+ seconds before starting to do their actions again.

Two of the summons are 10 second duration, two are 6, and the elite varies.

It is completely unacceptable for some of these skills to not work for almost half of their duration because of a single small cc.

 

There is so much pvp/ small wvw potential for Renegade and its summons. It just needs a bit of love on the summons, their cast times, and the shortbow.

 

Renegade also suffers from most Revenant stun breaks in general being too punishing imo, besides Riposting Shadows and the one in Herald which are strong.

One of my Renegade builds in pvp, uses both the mallyx and kalla legends.

The stun breaks from both of these legends lock you into an animation after stun breaking.

 

Having your stun break lock you into an animation only for that to be interrupted instantly again....

makes it feel extremely punishing to fight decent warriors, thieves, mesmers, and holos.

 

I understand that Pain Absorption and Darkrazor's Daring need to have a cast time for such a powerful effects,

but it feels very clunky to have the casts times be any longer than a 1/4 sec on the skills paired to revenants stun breaks.

Also I don't believe that the energy cost for a stun break should be more than 20 (Riposting Shadows excluded)

No other classes offensive potential is severely hampered by using its active defenses like Revenant is.

[Ithilwen.1529]

Elusive Mind applies 3 seconds of exhaustion... ? **That essentially Self counters the stun removal.**( You're still stunned, in effect. In fact you might actually be worse off. ) So basically you're using the numbers change to shut down the trait, since the split method doesn't permit you do do a pvp only version? *That's a pretty hard hit.*

 

I note also the shatter damage reductions. **Please be very careful here. Balance changes come too seldom and a radical change can cause lasting problems.**

 

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"NICENIKESHOE.7128" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > >

> > > > Great list hmmm....are you still on board with nerfing stability on corona blast? Last update you decided to limit the stability application to actual hit rather than free stability application

> > >

> > > Yeah, that's still happening.

> >

> > Can I ask why? Are other melee classes getting their evades/blocks/stability reduced as well? I know some zerk warriors who just won't die. Or is it just holo that's getting its defenses singled out in that regard? Because engineer's Photon Forge features no blocks and no built-in evades, unlike thief or warrior. The stability is a practical necessity as it exists, and nerfing it will not push engineers towards using any of the other master tier traits.

> >

> > I hope you'll also consider [my suggestion to buff other parts of core engineer and scrapper](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/411445/#Comment_411445 "my suggestion to buff other parts of core engineer and scrapper") so that the class isn't completely pointless in PvP too.

>

> They are in fact. Most melee class have their passive procs and stab reduced. Since you're interested in warrior, they took substantial hit with their balance stance proc going to 90s. S/D acro thief is also taking huge hit with hard to catch and instant reflex/pain response going to 40 or 90s as well. Sure they'll still proc at the first moment of the fight, but they're unlikely going to proc again unless fight drags on more than it should.

>

> On the other hand corona burst is still on 6s CD with only requirement is hitting in melee range. I played holo fair bit and from my experience its not difficult to maintain 300 range for corona burst to keep stab, especially as holo most of your fight **should be** in melee range. This change just means holo can't use it before they close into enemy or proc it when getting away.

 

Except holo is ALSO getting its passive procs reduced too (Reactive Lenses: 40s -> 90s ; Self-Regulating Defenses: 75s -> 90s). We're getting our defenses double-whammied for no particular reason, when they were never that high to begin with and weren't the source of people's problems with engineer. Not even warrior is seeing its full-counter getting nerfed to "on hit" procs, which is something way more people asked for, and they get CRAZY buffs for that.

 

What this means is that holo can't use a defensively oriented trait when trying to defend itself (IE running away or initiating a fight). Engineer doesn't come equipped with weapon swap, blocks, or evade-frames like warrior, thief or guardian might. Our shield's defenses are about the best we got in that line, and that's pretty iffy considering our MH's that pair with them are objectively bad (rifle is almost universally better). Our only real defenses are our utilities, passives, and stability from Corona burst. With both passive and stability taking a massive hit in that regard, our not-overwhelming defenses drop well below acceptable threshholds in PvP.

 

It's the functional equivalent of thief or warrior getting all their passive evade frames taken away.

[plushiesoda.8150]

overall this feels like the balance path the game really needed since pof release, though I feel that spellbreaker's full counter deserves a rework to put it " more in line" with your average "counter-mechanic" instead of it's current "aegis-like" nature , despite the nerfs druid pets attack scaling remains untouched (which is a bad thing and probably the main issue they had to begin with) and holo-nerfs seem a little bit too drastic, they needed a damage nerf in spvp, no doubt, but that huge? only time will tell I guess.

 

I hope that with this we will be seeing more HoT specs, but on a quick glance it seems that bunkers got completely removed from the meta (even more), also sigil of energy should be revised. It is **almost** useless, with the nerfs to mirage shouldn't it be buffed back to 50%?

[Aza.2105]

> @"Roxanne.6140" said:

> In summary, just a whole bunch of nerfs to light armour and some buffs for heavy armour for wvw

 

Armor doesn't matter in this game.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> > @"Roxanne.6140" said:

> > In summary, just a whole bunch of nerfs to light armour and some buffs for heavy armour for wvw

>

> Armor doesn't matter in this game.

 

And what makes you think that?

[Salt Mode.3780]

so are spellbreaker's nerfs finalized?

[ArthurDent.9538]

> @"Kasdwer.3721" said:

> > @"Clownmug.8357" said:

> > I'm pleasantly surprised by these balance revisions. Glad to see those damage buffs to certain thief skills weren't permitted. Mesmer changes also seem to have been given thoughtful consideration this time. In addition to those elementalist changes, I think the goal of balancing instant attacks is finally being achieved.

> yeah this pesky dp thiefs that were in every game, they sure needed these 30% dmg nerf without any compensation!

> i just hope they update the list again and make the 30% into like 15% nerf or something, a 15% nerf and 30% for both main abilitys on a build that is neither even considered meta or people complained about is just suicidal

 

Dp was a solidly meta spec until people figured out core SD was marginally better overall so most swapped to it. Considering all other meta specs are taking huge nerfs, dp dash is way too close to the current meta's strength to leave it untouched. The nerfs are justified.

[Aza.2105]

> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > @"Roxanne.6140" said:

> > > In summary, just a whole bunch of nerfs to light armour and some buffs for heavy armour for wvw

> >

> > Armor doesn't matter in this game.

>

> And what makes you think that?

 

Because I tested it thats why. Its also why you see naked mesmers. Its why a warrior can run around with zerker amulet and still be relatively tanky. And its why when you have max toughness you still melt as if you had a non toughness build. Put it this way, damage is so high that no matter what you wear: Light, medium or heavy armor or a toughness build. You will still melt in a second or so.

 

Armor could be relevant again if they tone damage WAY down.

 

[ArthurDent.9538]

> @"BABE.6384" said:

> I am extremely disappointed with zero additional changes to renegade, and only one more to Revenant, that will in no way affect PvP.

> I have an extensive list of changes to its skills usability and strength, that I believe would make it feel balanced and strong in a team wvw/pvp setting.

> Without making it too much stronger in pve, imo.

>

> Shortbow #2 cast time should be less.

> Shortbow #3 is completely useless in pvp outside of a body cleaving situation.

> Shortbow #5 needs to be fixed so you can not jump over the shock wave and negate the attack. (including using leap abilities)

> (In general some leap abilities jump over other skills, Holo leap vs Polaric Leap being a very frustrating and fight turning example, that I have experienced on the ele side many times.)

>

> Hopefully the change to Razorclaw's Rage feels better, because honestly that skill never even felt worth casting.

>

> And lastly Citadel Bombardment could use a smaller spread or wider explosion radius,

> this would allow it to be more consistent in hitting people that are ALIVE.

> Otherwise less cast time and energy drain could also make it feel more worth using in a cleaving body situation, where there is no issues with it connecting to your target.

> In its current form I only cast Citadel Bombardment maybe once every 5-10 pvp matches on Renegade.

>

> I have had some decent success in platinum pvp with a few different renegade builds.

> However it is HEAVILY impaired by its cast times with the amount of cc spam in team fights. Which does make it rather lackluster in full 5v5s, especially if you get focused.

> Those two combined make it a very hard battle to get any leeching combos off with your elite, to be able to sustain with Kalla in team fights.

>

> What I would actually say the WORST issue with Renegade is related to cc as well...

> Whenever a summon is cc'd, even by a 1/4 sec daze. They sit around for what seems to be 2-3+ seconds before starting to do their actions again.

> Two of the summons are 10 second duration, two are 6, and the elite varies.

> It is completely unacceptable for some of these skills to not work for almost half of their duration because of a single small cc.

>

> There is so much pvp/ small wvw potential for Renegade and its summons. It just needs a bit of love on the summons, their cast times, and the shortbow.

>

> Renegade also suffers from most Revenant stun breaks in general being too punishing imo, besides Riposting Shadows and the one in Herald which are strong.

> One of my Renegade builds in pvp, use both the mallyx and kalla legends.

> The stun breaks from both of these legends lock you into an animation after stun breaking.

>

> Having your stun break lock you into an animation only for that to be interrupted instantly again....

> makes it feel extremely punishing to fight decent warriors, thieves, mesmers, and holos.

>

> I understand that Pain Absorption and Darkrazor's Daring need to have a cast time for such a powerful effects,

> but it feels very clunky to have the casts times be any longer than a 1/4 sec on the skills paired to revenants stun breaks.

> Also I don't believe that the energy cost for a stun break should be more than 20 (Riposting Shadows excluded)

> No other classes offensive potential is severely hampered by using its active defenses like Revenant is.

 

Renegade needs a total redesign instead of number tweaks which puts it out of the scope of this update which is pure number tweaks. Also cast time changes don't really count as number tweaks as they require a animation change. Overall I am pretty content with the new list.

[dontlook.1823]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > @"dontlook.1823" said:

> > Are there going to be any PvE changes involved or is this strictly PvP/WvW?

>

> With a couple exceptions, this is PvP/WvW only.

 

Whoa! thanks for the reply! :D

[sweetrules.8359]

I see Anet wimped out on finally nerfing bunker druids in WvW. So roamers can still get punked by unkillable druids and friends. Anet, you need to nerf them, please don't back down on what needs to be done for the health of roaming. They need to be buffed elsewhere to help with zerg fighting. Right now, they are rather pointless there, but bunker druid is top tier for roaming. WvW is not just zerg fights. I know some of you play WvW, you must know that. I gave up on Warriors ever being properly balanced for roaming, but you can actually fix this problem. So please don't back down just because they are going to take losing their easy mode roaming kicking and screaming. You can't please everyone, but you would definitely make the majority of roamers happy if you don't back down on it.

[Doctor.1384]

About the forced engagement change

We still need to not have more cooldowns for rev. It seems like a small change but if we keep getting small cd increases eventually we will lose our class mechanic and just have a resource attached to generic skills. Forced engagement would be perfectly fine on a 10 second cooldown with a 10 energy cost or even a 15 energy cost. If a rev skill cant have a low cd than the skill needs to be reexamined rather then have its cost and cd manipulated.

[omgdracula.6345]

Lol @ all the people who think any thief nerfs outside of S/D are warranted. Thief has done nothing but struggled to be acceptable in the meta unless you are god tier like Sindrener.

 

At least give some compensation.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Thanks for the buffs to my thieves. Lots more air flowing between their legs.

[jhin.6574]

can you make the support players get loots if the heal or give boons to the players who do dps with out attacking the monster ? if you undstand me .

[LUST.7241]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> **Engineer**

> Skills

> • Light Strike: Reduced the damage by 40% in PvP only

> • Holo Leap: Reduced the damage by 17% in PvP only

> • Corona Burst: Reduced the Might stacks granted per pulse from 2 to 1 in PvP only

> • Holographic Shockwave: Reduced the damage by 22% in PvP only

> • Detection Pulse radius increased from 600 to 1200 in PvP and WvW.

>

> Edit: Forgot Ramage and Tornado edits in initial posting.

 

Initial post has the nerfs to the coefficient, but this seems to imply the base damage. Can you clarify? How are these percentages decided?

 

* 40% - 391 to 235.

* 17% - 704 to 584.

* 22% - 375 to 292.

 

I admit that along with the other profession changes, it might make Holosmith more favorable if Holosmith wasn't nerfed slightly...but there's an opportunity to increase Scrapper damage that would at least give it a push to be a stronger alternative to Holosmith (or even a better counter for both condi and physical damage dealers).

 

Do the _Rampage_ and Tornado edits of other professions effect Elixir X, or are those unique?

[XxsdgxX.8109]

Looks really promising, thanks ANET I'm really looking forward to this.

 

> @"witcher.3197" said:

> > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> > Hey folks!

> >

> > I've been promising a list of edits to our initial post and finally here they are! I'm hoping to get the full list re-translated and posted in all languages by mid next week.

> >

> > A few notes:

> > We'd mentioned several times that we were going to consider unsplitting some things. We decided to hold off on that for now, but we will be considering unsplits for the next full balance release.

> >

> > Keep in mind that balance is a moving target. We know we have more to do!

> >

> > **Revenant**

> > Skills

> > • Forced Engagement: Reduced the energy cost from 25 to 10. Increased the cooldown from 10 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW

> >

> > **Thief**

> > Skills

> > • Larcenous Strike: Reduced the power coefficient from 15% in PvP and WvW

> > • We decided not to do the following buffs;

> > • Heartseeker

> > • Shadow Shot

> > • Infiltrator’s Strike

> > Traits

> > • Swindler's Equilibrium: Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW

> >

> > **Ranger**

> > Skills

> > • Seed of Life: Increased the cooldown from 1 second to 3 seconds in PvP only

> > • Rejuvenating Tides: Reduced the base healing per pulse by 15% in PvP only

> > • Solar Beam: Reduced the damage by 17% in PvP only

> > • Celestial Avatar: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP only

> > Traits

> > • Refined Toxins: Increased the cooldown from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP only

> > • Rugged Growth: Reduced the healing by 50% in PvP only

> > • Grace of the Land: Reduced the number of Might stacks applied from 3 to 2 in PvP only

> > • Fortifying Bond: Reduced duration of shared Might stacks from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only

> > • "We Heal as One!:" Reduced duration of copied Might stacks from 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only

> > • Fresh Reinforcement: Reduced shared Might duration 10 seconds to 5 seconds in PvP only

> >

> > **Engineer**

> > Skills

> > • Light Strike: Reduced the damage by 40% in PvP only

> > • Holo Leap: Reduced the damage by 17% in PvP only

> > • Corona Burst: Reduced the Might stacks granted per pulse from 2 to 1 in PvP only

> > • Holographic Shockwave: Reduced the damage by 22% in PvP only

> > • Detection Pulse radius increased from 600 to 1200 in PvP and WvW.

> >

> > **Elementalist**

> > Skills

> > • Arcane Blast: Reduced the maximum Ammo count from 3 to 2 in PvP and WvW

> > • Plasma Beam: Reduced damage by 20% in PvP and WvW

> > Traits

> > • Electric Discharge: Reduced the power by 28% in PvP and WvW

> >

> > **Mesmer**

> > Skills

> > • Phantasmal Disenchanter – Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW

> > • Illusionary Riposte: Increased the cooldown from 12 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW

> > • Illusionary Swordsman: Increased the cooldown from 15 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased the number of might stacks from 8 to 4 in PvP and WvW

> > • Mirror Blade: Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW

> > • Signet of the Ether: Reduced the cooldown from 35 seconds to 30 seconds in PvP and WvW

> > • Illusionary Counter: Reduced the cooldown from 8 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP and WvW

> > • Jaunt: Reduced damage by 50% in PvP and WvW

> > Traits

> > • Elusive Mind: This trait now applies 3 seconds of Exhaustion when breaking a stun

> > • Bountiful Disillusionment: Reduced Stability duration from 5 seconds to 3 seconds in PvP and WvW. Decreased Might stacks from 5 to 3 in PvP and WvW

> > • Mental Anguish: Reduced bonus damages from 15% and 30% to 10% and 20% respectively in PvP and WvW

> > • Confounding Suggestions: Increased cooldown from 5 seconds to 15 seconds in PvP and WvW

> >

>

> Thanks for the update, really good changes!

>

> I'm glad you went back on the thief buffs too, if there's one class that doesn't need a buff at all it's thief.

>

> There's only 2 things I'd like for you to consider, and it's regarding **revenant**.

>

> Equilibrium was a key trait of power rev in PvP and one that took planning and proper energy management. It was fairly harmless on its own, but made gameplay more interesting because proper use of this made quite the difference between good and bad revenant. This trait was removed because "it was hard to use" - things shouldn't be removed just because they need experience.

>

> Now, Equilibrium would be OP combined with the new Sword #4 burst, which ties into my second problem. With the removal of Equ and the buffs to offhand sword, it's by far the best weapon there is, maybe the only real option. even Could you consider nerfing offhand sword #4 by let's say 10-20% (one button 10k near-instant AoE that takes no skill whatsoever is not fine) and adding back Equilibrium in place of Rapid Flow, a completely useless placeholder trait?

>

> This would make it so revenants can finally have their damage back without being forced into offhand sword, while still keeping the weapon viable yet not OP even with the combined burst, AND it'd even promote trait/playstyle diversity while upping the skill ceiling!

 

And I completely agree with this, offhand sword is the only good option right now because of how busted Number 4 (Shackling Wave) is. It's really true that if Rev had high damage distributed among other skills (Equilibrium, Sword 2, Staff 5) then using offhand shield and axe could be an option again. Equilibrium and **even Staff 5 (Surge of the Mists)** were **much** harder to use than current Sword 4.

 

So yeah right now the damage is pretty mediocre if you don't use offhand sword. I'd totally lower some of the damage on Sword 4 and redistribute it among other skills.

*Do an exchange*. Just have it on consideration for the next patch that comes after this one.

Outside of that Revenant should be fine as long as you keep tuning down many other over-performing builds.

 

Either way I'm still really glad that you went this way of tuning down everything instead of just buffing Revenant and Elementalist and thus making the powercreep worse.

 

 

[Warlord.9074]

 

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

 

> ### Warrior

> - Dagger Autoattack chain: Reduced the power coefficients from 0.55, 0.55, 0.85 to 0.4, 0.4, 0.85 (-15% overall) in PvP and WvW

 

> ### Thief

> - Dagger Autoattack chain: Reduced the power coefficients from 0.8, 0.85, 1.1 to 0.6, 0.65, 1.1 (-15% overall) in PvP and WvW

 

Warrior and Thief Dagger Auto attacks are not comparable to each other. They have zero commonality.

--Thief 3rd attack apply poison for example. -33% Heal Effectiveness **Warrior 3rd attack is just damage. **

--The Base coefficients are also different on both classes.

--the only thing they have in common is they are max 2 targets.

--Max two target skill has zero impact in WvW

 

I have no idea why your company is comparing these 2 attack chains to each other and treating them the same. It makes zero balance since at all. It may balance the warrior, not that you will find anyone who plays this game who thinks warrior dagger auto in unbalanced. But it wont balance the thief autos. How is this balance find me anyone who agrees with your company right now, and I am willing to be there are plenty of people inside anet who don't agree with you.

 

[Kitta.3657]

Make Elusive Mind have an ICD instead of exhaustion. It will still punish the player from spamming it while not hindering the whole kit of mirage which has to use it's dodges for both offensives and defensives. Also add more than 1 condition cleansed from it since I can imagine cleansing 1 condition from a 30 seconds or so GM trait to be really underwhelming.

 

Also I do not understand why you would go nerf the damage on Mirror Blade over nerfing the phantasms damage which is the big power creep that was introduced with this latest rebalancing of mesmer.

[Kasdwer.3721]

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > @"Kasdwer.3721" said:

> > > @"Clownmug.8357" said:

> > > I'm pleasantly surprised by these balance revisions. Glad to see those damage buffs to certain thief skills weren't permitted. Mesmer changes also seem to have been given thoughtful consideration this time. In addition to those elementalist changes, I think the goal of balancing instant attacks is finally being achieved.

> > yeah this pesky dp thiefs that were in every game, they sure needed these 30% dmg nerf without any compensation!

> > i just hope they update the list again and make the 30% into like 15% nerf or something, a 15% nerf and 30% for both main abilitys on a build that is neither even considered meta or people complained about is just suicidal

>

> Dp was a solidly meta spec until people figured out core SD was marginally better overall so most swapped to it. Considering all other meta specs are taking huge nerfs, dp dash is way too close to the current meta's strength to leave it untouched. The nerfs are justified.

 

i think you missunderstood something, dp was in meta because it was a good +1 with spike dmg and mobility

the aa nerf and PI nerf wont reduce these capabilities at all

but dp thief, especially in this meta, had a extrem hard time to even try to do 1n1, its suicide and every dp thief will tell you that doing 1n1 are complete worthless

now they nerf the 1n1 capabilities, where they are already struggling, even more

for me it just seems like anet want to push dp into a backstab bot only and making it complete useless outside of that

[Abelisk.4527]

> @"Kitta.3657" said:

> Make Elusive Mind have an ICD instead of exhaustion. It will still punish the player from spamming it while not hindering the whole kit of mirage which has to use it's dodges for both offensives and defensives. Also add more than 1 condition cleansed from it since I can imagine cleansing 1 condition from a 30 seconds or so GM trait to be really underwhelming.

>

> Also I do not understand why you would go nerf the damage on Mirror Blade over nerfing the phantasms damage which is the big power creep that was introduced with this latest rebalancing of mesmer.

 

But they increased the CD on Phantasmal Swordsman/Disenchanter.

 

I'm fine with Exhaustion--all it will do is cut off endurance regen. You can counter it with Distortion, Sword 2, staff 2, etc. You still have Blink and Port so you're safe. Just be careful and decide whether a stunbreak has value or not. All it does is promote thought over spam.