Crinn.7864 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 > @"Patrick.2987" said: > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > @"Patrick.2987" said: > > > Looks like reaper buffs with well changes. Pretty nice considering other specs see nerfs mainly. > > > > Where is this reaper buff you are speaking about? > > Just because scourge gets nerfed, doesnt mean reaper gets buffed or more viable. I still think, scourge will be the dominating necro profession. > > > > If reaper would be way tankier and had way more dmg, then we could talk about a meta change > > Wells as i said. And a scourge with 30s cd shroud will never be close to a well reaper in terms of aoe pressure. Wells have 35 to 40 second cooldowns. Also F5 is not Scourge's only damage source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > Some of that is from boons, others is from the abilities themselves.Thieves can generate massive boons for ferocity and all that, and he can hit real hard, but some class has too many invulns mobility tools and ridiculously low spammable cooldowns. > Thief being able to hit hard is part of its whole play style. Its a high risk high reward profession. I think its boons are proper and where they should be minus the one trait on deadeye that gives all the boons for a short time at max stacks. But then again deadeye is much more squsih. Fury might and swiftness and vigor are not that big of a deal on thief as its main boons. If thief had tons of resistance, stability to add to that i would say yes it needs to be culled with the rest. If arena net does not want to cull boon generation then converts and rips need to be rebalanced so that boons like Stability and resistance are always targeted before any other boon. Running away from a foe with these immunity boons would be a counter play but when you play a class with no mobitliy and its main focus is boon convert/ strip to bring its foe down to its level these tools should not flop due to the fact that the enemy can boon soak to cover up the boons you really want/need to convert. > Boons need to be fixed yes for sure i agree with you, but the spammable stuff like double pistol needs to be nerfed, and i think some other thief abiltiies need to be looked at as well for pvp.I think mesmers phantasms need to be checked up to see if they can really explode their phantasms for 30k while having invuln up with mirage, and if they can, that needs to be nerfed. I personally dont think "Unload" the pistol / pistol skill does not need to be nerfed directly. I feel like it should be re touched to be very rewarding to players who use it effectively and a bit more costly to players that dont. Any easy way to do this would be to really up the initiative cost on cast so you couldn't use it more than twice at most. How ever the bonus for landing all at shots would be that almost all that initiative is given back. Maybe even cut the number of shots from 8 to 6 up the damage slightly then keep the same idea as written above. With all the tools mesmers have they should be dealing damage some what closer to the necormancer and nothing higher if anything possibly a bit less. Necros damage is killed by some argument that shroud is op and boon converts are a very strong tool. If you are going to give a profession tons of potential evades, deceptiveness by spawning tons of things to attack your foe, tons of shatters some of which make you invuln and or deal cc, stealth, blocks, the power to strip boons, condi clear for using its profession mechanic then yes its damage should drastically be reduced because if having all that its not considered to be strong utility i dont know what is. > On the other hand, i do think that Anet needs to look into see if dagger warriors is worth bringing with their chains, since they nerfed FC and 1 attack.I'¡d also like Anet to look into that thing where if you have invis and reflect up, you lose invisibility. Dagger SB is fine ideally they have very strong tools and very high damage on other players anyways. FC was nerefed for a good reason because its very strong. The fact that it will block unblockable damage from some sources (necro wells/staff marks) but not all sources (ranger unblockable attacks) to this day still blows my mind. > > Also:Necros whole thing of ground abilities which cannot be land due to terrain also needs to be fixed.Its not fun terrain blocked stuff. There are many skills that necro has that dont flow well along the ground Focus 4, GS 5, Scourge shades apparently :U > Also:I think it would benefit for necro to actually generate a few more boons, and necros are going to need to either be defined by Anet what role in support they should fit, or the idea should be scrapped and their dps increased by like 10k to be able to keep up with others in pve, since they won't have support role. Necros dont have the tools that allow them to do that and the only one that potentially does in a pvp situation is locked behind scourge but to use it your shades become several times less effective than they already are. Ideally a set of traits that removed shades all together allowing proper use of feed from corruption without hindering the rest of the spec would have worked or feed from corruption should have been a core / reaper thing in some way. In pve this trait is 100% pointless so yeah. The most necro can get is might , protection if your trait wells, and swiftness. Where as every other profession is currently running around with all 3 of those and more usually everything minus alacrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahmia.2193 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 > @"Patrick.2987" said: > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > @"Patrick.2987" said: > > > Looks like reaper buffs with well changes. Pretty nice considering other specs see nerfs mainly. > > > > Where is this reaper buff you are speaking about? > > Just because scourge gets nerfed, doesnt mean reaper gets buffed or more viable. I still think, scourge will be the dominating necro profession. > > > > If reaper would be way tankier and had way more dmg, then we could talk about a meta change > > Wells as i said. And a scourge with 30s cd shroud will never be close to a well reaper in terms of aoe pressure. Maybe you should try out power scourge. Then you'd realise it is better, for a wvw well build, than power reaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said: > > > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > > > > @"HardRider.2980" said: > > > > > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > > > > > Translation: We don't want necromancer doing anything in these game modes anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > Except in PvP Condi Scourge is still / was still kinda insane. > > > > > Yeah, but these changes do nothing at all to change that in lower levels of PvP (where people frequently die in the opening burst, so cooldowns are irrelevant) while completely removing it from higher levels. > > > > > > > > I actually doubt that the changes would remove it from PvP. You must also consider that all of the other meta builds with the except of s/d thief are getting slammed aswell. > > > > > > > > Besides it's getting harder and harder to take these "Scourge is dead" posts seriously. Literally every patch has people saying that the changes will kill Scourge in PvP and they are always wrong. People are just not realizing how well Scourge is cemented into PvP meta. > > > > > > > > > > S/D thief is also getting slammed; Pain response saw its cooldown get increased by two and a half times, and is a major reason people aren't running Daredevil for EA and can afford to run Crit Strikes, which can account for around 40% of its damage alone. > > > > > > D/P got buffed for some unknown reason. They literally buffed skill-spam on D/P by like 25% on average. > > > > > > On-topic, I did propose they effectively undo the VP/SoS/Onslaught nerfs for reaper. > > > > D/P got hit HARD. The increase to Shadowshot's initiative requirement is huge since it neuters a thief's ability to blind his opponent. The buff to heartseeker is worthless since that skill literally hangs a thief out to dry. > > > > The S/D changes are a product of the nerfs to passives game wide. > > You won't need the extra blinds... Shadow Shot on a berserker/valk build will now hit for 8-13k each on anything running some semblance of damage lmao. The initiative cost increase for the damage increase is literally a net buff, and the skill already deals proportionately too much damage for its initiative cost on top of its effects as it is. > > HS changes may not have affected much, but it seriously just begs the question "Why?" in regards to its damage being bumped and nothing else being done to make it more usable, like hitbox fixes. > > Both of these changes just making skill-less spamming stronger, which was my point. You can't make up fictional numbers to try to justify an argument. A 13k Shadowshot is not going to happen on a daily basis in PvP in this game. For it to even be feasible you are telling me thieves are currently doing 9.5k Shadowshots in today's current game. No. Stop lying and making stuff up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said: > > > > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > > > > > @"HardRider.2980" said: > > > > > > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > > > > > > Translation: We don't want necromancer doing anything in these game modes anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except in PvP Condi Scourge is still / was still kinda insane. > > > > > > Yeah, but these changes do nothing at all to change that in lower levels of PvP (where people frequently die in the opening burst, so cooldowns are irrelevant) while completely removing it from higher levels. > > > > > > > > > > I actually doubt that the changes would remove it from PvP. You must also consider that all of the other meta builds with the except of s/d thief are getting slammed aswell. > > > > > > > > > > Besides it's getting harder and harder to take these "Scourge is dead" posts seriously. Literally every patch has people saying that the changes will kill Scourge in PvP and they are always wrong. People are just not realizing how well Scourge is cemented into PvP meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > S/D thief is also getting slammed; Pain response saw its cooldown get increased by two and a half times, and is a major reason people aren't running Daredevil for EA and can afford to run Crit Strikes, which can account for around 40% of its damage alone. > > > > > > > > D/P got buffed for some unknown reason. They literally buffed skill-spam on D/P by like 25% on average. > > > > > > > > On-topic, I did propose they effectively undo the VP/SoS/Onslaught nerfs for reaper. > > > > > > D/P got hit HARD. The increase to Shadowshot's initiative requirement is huge since it neuters a thief's ability to blind his opponent. The buff to heartseeker is worthless since that skill literally hangs a thief out to dry. > > > > > > The S/D changes are a product of the nerfs to passives game wide. > > > > You won't need the extra blinds... Shadow Shot on a berserker/valk build will now hit for 8-13k each on anything running some semblance of damage lmao. The initiative cost increase for the damage increase is literally a net buff, and the skill already deals proportionately too much damage for its initiative cost on top of its effects as it is. > > > > HS changes may not have affected much, but it seriously just begs the question "Why?" in regards to its damage being bumped and nothing else being done to make it more usable, like hitbox fixes. > > > > Both of these changes just making skill-less spamming stronger, which was my point. > > You can't make up fictional numbers to try to justify an argument. A 13k Shadowshot is not going to happen on a daily basis in PvP in this game. For it to even be feasible you are telling me thieves are currently doing 9.5k Shadowshots in today's current game. > > No. Stop lying and making stuff up. In sPvP, sure. Damage is wayyyyy lower. But so is health, and so is PI damage. In WvW? I hit 12k Shadow Shots already, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Y'all need to stop looking at these changes in a bubble ... if you look at the way other classes are getting changes as well, it indicates Anet wants to reduce access to a good number of class skills, not just Necro ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dceptaconroy.7928 Posted February 26, 2018 Share Posted February 26, 2018 Cut down on scourge effectiveness by culling boons, in effect bringing other classes to our levels, thereby not having to bother with buffing reaper as its obvious its a little tricky to get right. Everyone wins, reaper gets no silly reverse vp style buff'. Best thing to do is ask for nothing and wait it out for others to get adjusted'. Mwahaha :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinn Galen.2468 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > If reaper would be way tankier and had way more dmg, then we could talk about a meta change Why do you need more damage? Reaper has the damage. Shroud skills are painful even on guardians and warriors. Axe 2 alone can demolish squishies. What reaper needs is a reliable way to deal this damage. Revert shroud nerfs. We need those so much for survivability so we can deliver our payloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said: > > > > > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > > > > > > @"HardRider.2980" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > > > > > > > Translation: We don't want necromancer doing anything in these game modes anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except in PvP Condi Scourge is still / was still kinda insane. > > > > > > > Yeah, but these changes do nothing at all to change that in lower levels of PvP (where people frequently die in the opening burst, so cooldowns are irrelevant) while completely removing it from higher levels. > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually doubt that the changes would remove it from PvP. You must also consider that all of the other meta builds with the except of s/d thief are getting slammed aswell. > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides it's getting harder and harder to take these "Scourge is dead" posts seriously. Literally every patch has people saying that the changes will kill Scourge in PvP and they are always wrong. People are just not realizing how well Scourge is cemented into PvP meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > S/D thief is also getting slammed; Pain response saw its cooldown get increased by two and a half times, and is a major reason people aren't running Daredevil for EA and can afford to run Crit Strikes, which can account for around 40% of its damage alone. > > > > > > > > > > D/P got buffed for some unknown reason. They literally buffed skill-spam on D/P by like 25% on average. > > > > > > > > > > On-topic, I did propose they effectively undo the VP/SoS/Onslaught nerfs for reaper. > > > > > > > > D/P got hit HARD. The increase to Shadowshot's initiative requirement is huge since it neuters a thief's ability to blind his opponent. The buff to heartseeker is worthless since that skill literally hangs a thief out to dry. > > > > > > > > The S/D changes are a product of the nerfs to passives game wide. > > > > > > You won't need the extra blinds... Shadow Shot on a berserker/valk build will now hit for 8-13k each on anything running some semblance of damage lmao. The initiative cost increase for the damage increase is literally a net buff, and the skill already deals proportionately too much damage for its initiative cost on top of its effects as it is. > > > > > > HS changes may not have affected much, but it seriously just begs the question "Why?" in regards to its damage being bumped and nothing else being done to make it more usable, like hitbox fixes. > > > > > > Both of these changes just making skill-less spamming stronger, which was my point. > > > > You can't make up fictional numbers to try to justify an argument. A 13k Shadowshot is not going to happen on a daily basis in PvP in this game. For it to even be feasible you are telling me thieves are currently doing 9.5k Shadowshots in today's current game. > > > > No. Stop lying and making stuff up. > > In sPvP, sure. Damage is wayyyyy lower. But so is health, and so is PI damage. In WvW? I hit 12k Shadow Shots already, lol. WvW is a joke and an extremely perversed game mode since Anet refuses to balance it. EVERYONES damage is over the top in WvW. Your argument once again holds no merit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said: > > > > > > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > > > > > > > @"HardRider.2980" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > > > > > > > > Translation: We don't want necromancer doing anything in these game modes anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except in PvP Condi Scourge is still / was still kinda insane. > > > > > > > > Yeah, but these changes do nothing at all to change that in lower levels of PvP (where people frequently die in the opening burst, so cooldowns are irrelevant) while completely removing it from higher levels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually doubt that the changes would remove it from PvP. You must also consider that all of the other meta builds with the except of s/d thief are getting slammed aswell. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides it's getting harder and harder to take these "Scourge is dead" posts seriously. Literally every patch has people saying that the changes will kill Scourge in PvP and they are always wrong. People are just not realizing how well Scourge is cemented into PvP meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > S/D thief is also getting slammed; Pain response saw its cooldown get increased by two and a half times, and is a major reason people aren't running Daredevil for EA and can afford to run Crit Strikes, which can account for around 40% of its damage alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > D/P got buffed for some unknown reason. They literally buffed skill-spam on D/P by like 25% on average. > > > > > > > > > > > > On-topic, I did propose they effectively undo the VP/SoS/Onslaught nerfs for reaper. > > > > > > > > > > D/P got hit HARD. The increase to Shadowshot's initiative requirement is huge since it neuters a thief's ability to blind his opponent. The buff to heartseeker is worthless since that skill literally hangs a thief out to dry. > > > > > > > > > > The S/D changes are a product of the nerfs to passives game wide. > > > > > > > > You won't need the extra blinds... Shadow Shot on a berserker/valk build will now hit for 8-13k each on anything running some semblance of damage lmao. The initiative cost increase for the damage increase is literally a net buff, and the skill already deals proportionately too much damage for its initiative cost on top of its effects as it is. > > > > > > > > HS changes may not have affected much, but it seriously just begs the question "Why?" in regards to its damage being bumped and nothing else being done to make it more usable, like hitbox fixes. > > > > > > > > Both of these changes just making skill-less spamming stronger, which was my point. > > > > > > You can't make up fictional numbers to try to justify an argument. A 13k Shadowshot is not going to happen on a daily basis in PvP in this game. For it to even be feasible you are telling me thieves are currently doing 9.5k Shadowshots in today's current game. > > > > > > No. Stop lying and making stuff up. > > > > In sPvP, sure. Damage is wayyyyy lower. But so is health, and so is PI damage. In WvW? I hit 12k Shadow Shots already, lol. > > WvW is a joke and an extremely perversed game mode since Anet refuses to balance it. > > EVERYONES damage is over the top in WvW. > > Your argument once again holds no merit So we've gone from me making up numbers to playing an imbalanced game mode, as though sPvP, which prevents itself from meta adaptations most of the time and has much less diversity, is any better, lol. TBH, based on your comments above, it sounds like you spam SS and PI to win fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"HardRider.2980" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Translation: We don't want necromancer doing anything in these game modes anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except in PvP Condi Scourge is still / was still kinda insane. > > > > > > > > > Yeah, but these changes do nothing at all to change that in lower levels of PvP (where people frequently die in the opening burst, so cooldowns are irrelevant) while completely removing it from higher levels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually doubt that the changes would remove it from PvP. You must also consider that all of the other meta builds with the except of s/d thief are getting slammed aswell. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides it's getting harder and harder to take these "Scourge is dead" posts seriously. Literally every patch has people saying that the changes will kill Scourge in PvP and they are always wrong. People are just not realizing how well Scourge is cemented into PvP meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > S/D thief is also getting slammed; Pain response saw its cooldown get increased by two and a half times, and is a major reason people aren't running Daredevil for EA and can afford to run Crit Strikes, which can account for around 40% of its damage alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > D/P got buffed for some unknown reason. They literally buffed skill-spam on D/P by like 25% on average. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On-topic, I did propose they effectively undo the VP/SoS/Onslaught nerfs for reaper. > > > > > > > > > > > > D/P got hit HARD. The increase to Shadowshot's initiative requirement is huge since it neuters a thief's ability to blind his opponent. The buff to heartseeker is worthless since that skill literally hangs a thief out to dry. > > > > > > > > > > > > The S/D changes are a product of the nerfs to passives game wide. > > > > > > > > > > You won't need the extra blinds... Shadow Shot on a berserker/valk build will now hit for 8-13k each on anything running some semblance of damage lmao. The initiative cost increase for the damage increase is literally a net buff, and the skill already deals proportionately too much damage for its initiative cost on top of its effects as it is. > > > > > > > > > > HS changes may not have affected much, but it seriously just begs the question "Why?" in regards to its damage being bumped and nothing else being done to make it more usable, like hitbox fixes. > > > > > > > > > > Both of these changes just making skill-less spamming stronger, which was my point. > > > > > > > > You can't make up fictional numbers to try to justify an argument. A 13k Shadowshot is not going to happen on a daily basis in PvP in this game. For it to even be feasible you are telling me thieves are currently doing 9.5k Shadowshots in today's current game. > > > > > > > > No. Stop lying and making stuff up. > > > > > > In sPvP, sure. Damage is wayyyyy lower. But so is health, and so is PI damage. In WvW? I hit 12k Shadow Shots already, lol. > > > > WvW is a joke and an extremely perversed game mode since Anet refuses to balance it. > > > > EVERYONES damage is over the top in WvW. > > > > Your argument once again holds no merit > > So we've gone from me making up numbers to playing an imbalanced game mode, as though sPvP, which prevents itself from meta adaptations most of the time and has much less diversity, is any better, lol. > > TBH, based on your comments above, it sounds like you spam SS and PI to win fights. You making up numbers and WvW being an unbalanced game mode are facts. PvP meta changes ever patch pretty much is a fact. You then try miserably to use a personal attack to solidify your position. How about you use facts instead of your feelings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"HardRider.2980" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Translation: We don't want necromancer doing anything in these game modes anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except in PvP Condi Scourge is still / was still kinda insane. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, but these changes do nothing at all to change that in lower levels of PvP (where people frequently die in the opening burst, so cooldowns are irrelevant) while completely removing it from higher levels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually doubt that the changes would remove it from PvP. You must also consider that all of the other meta builds with the except of s/d thief are getting slammed aswell. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides it's getting harder and harder to take these "Scourge is dead" posts seriously. Literally every patch has people saying that the changes will kill Scourge in PvP and they are always wrong. People are just not realizing how well Scourge is cemented into PvP meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > S/D thief is also getting slammed; Pain response saw its cooldown get increased by two and a half times, and is a major reason people aren't running Daredevil for EA and can afford to run Crit Strikes, which can account for around 40% of its damage alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > D/P got buffed for some unknown reason. They literally buffed skill-spam on D/P by like 25% on average. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On-topic, I did propose they effectively undo the VP/SoS/Onslaught nerfs for reaper. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > D/P got hit HARD. The increase to Shadowshot's initiative requirement is huge since it neuters a thief's ability to blind his opponent. The buff to heartseeker is worthless since that skill literally hangs a thief out to dry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The S/D changes are a product of the nerfs to passives game wide. > > > > > > > > > > > > You won't need the extra blinds... Shadow Shot on a berserker/valk build will now hit for 8-13k each on anything running some semblance of damage lmao. The initiative cost increase for the damage increase is literally a net buff, and the skill already deals proportionately too much damage for its initiative cost on top of its effects as it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > HS changes may not have affected much, but it seriously just begs the question "Why?" in regards to its damage being bumped and nothing else being done to make it more usable, like hitbox fixes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Both of these changes just making skill-less spamming stronger, which was my point. > > > > > > > > > > You can't make up fictional numbers to try to justify an argument. A 13k Shadowshot is not going to happen on a daily basis in PvP in this game. For it to even be feasible you are telling me thieves are currently doing 9.5k Shadowshots in today's current game. > > > > > > > > > > No. Stop lying and making stuff up. > > > > > > > > In sPvP, sure. Damage is wayyyyy lower. But so is health, and so is PI damage. In WvW? I hit 12k Shadow Shots already, lol. > > > > > > WvW is a joke and an extremely perversed game mode since Anet refuses to balance it. > > > > > > EVERYONES damage is over the top in WvW. > > > > > > Your argument once again holds no merit > > > > So we've gone from me making up numbers to playing an imbalanced game mode, as though sPvP, which prevents itself from meta adaptations most of the time and has much less diversity, is any better, lol. > > > > TBH, based on your comments above, it sounds like you spam SS and PI to win fights. > > You making up numbers and WvW being an unbalanced game mode are facts. > > PvP meta changes ever patch pretty much is a fact. > > You then try miserably to use a personal attack to solidify your position. > > How about you use facts instead of your feelings > Except my numbers aren't made up because I was talking about WvW to begin with, WvW has historically had more diversity and tighter balance among its professions, the sPvP meta rarely changes dramatically because of capture-and-hold, you attacked me first by stating my statement is invalid "once again" by an attack on my credibility, and the conclusion of what I said above was based on your aforementioned complaints about reduced-recasting of Shadow Shot due to its increased initiative cost which "neuters a thief's ability to blind his opponent" despite a disproportionate gain in damage per cast and the fact that BP is the better blind to begin with if that's what you're trying to achieve. The PI bit and comments on spam is my mistake; for whatever reason, I got brought to this post when looking at the PI thread and thought you were complaining about both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > > > > > > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"HardRider.2980" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Translation: We don't want necromancer doing anything in these game modes anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except in PvP Condi Scourge is still / was still kinda insane. > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, but these changes do nothing at all to change that in lower levels of PvP (where people frequently die in the opening burst, so cooldowns are irrelevant) while completely removing it from higher levels. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I actually doubt that the changes would remove it from PvP. You must also consider that all of the other meta builds with the except of s/d thief are getting slammed aswell. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides it's getting harder and harder to take these "Scourge is dead" posts seriously. Literally every patch has people saying that the changes will kill Scourge in PvP and they are always wrong. People are just not realizing how well Scourge is cemented into PvP meta. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > S/D thief is also getting slammed; Pain response saw its cooldown get increased by two and a half times, and is a major reason people aren't running Daredevil for EA and can afford to run Crit Strikes, which can account for around 40% of its damage alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > D/P got buffed for some unknown reason. They literally buffed skill-spam on D/P by like 25% on average. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On-topic, I did propose they effectively undo the VP/SoS/Onslaught nerfs for reaper. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > D/P got hit HARD. The increase to Shadowshot's initiative requirement is huge since it neuters a thief's ability to blind his opponent. The buff to heartseeker is worthless since that skill literally hangs a thief out to dry. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The S/D changes are a product of the nerfs to passives game wide. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You won't need the extra blinds... Shadow Shot on a berserker/valk build will now hit for 8-13k each on anything running some semblance of damage lmao. The initiative cost increase for the damage increase is literally a net buff, and the skill already deals proportionately too much damage for its initiative cost on top of its effects as it is. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HS changes may not have affected much, but it seriously just begs the question "Why?" in regards to its damage being bumped and nothing else being done to make it more usable, like hitbox fixes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Both of these changes just making skill-less spamming stronger, which was my point. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't make up fictional numbers to try to justify an argument. A 13k Shadowshot is not going to happen on a daily basis in PvP in this game. For it to even be feasible you are telling me thieves are currently doing 9.5k Shadowshots in today's current game. > > > > > > > > > > > > No. Stop lying and making stuff up. > > > > > > > > > > In sPvP, sure. Damage is wayyyyy lower. But so is health, and so is PI damage. In WvW? I hit 12k Shadow Shots already, lol. > > > > > > > > WvW is a joke and an extremely perversed game mode since Anet refuses to balance it. > > > > > > > > EVERYONES damage is over the top in WvW. > > > > > > > > Your argument once again holds no merit > > > > > > So we've gone from me making up numbers to playing an imbalanced game mode, as though sPvP, which prevents itself from meta adaptations most of the time and has much less diversity, is any better, lol. > > > > > > TBH, based on your comments above, it sounds like you spam SS and PI to win fights. > > > > You making up numbers and WvW being an unbalanced game mode are facts. > > > > PvP meta changes ever patch pretty much is a fact. > > > > You then try miserably to use a personal attack to solidify your position. > > > > How about you use facts instead of your feelings > > > > Except my numbers aren't made up because I was talking about WvW to begin with, WvW has historically had more diversity and tighter balance among its professions, the sPvP meta rarely changes dramatically because of capture-and-hold, you attacked me first by stating my statement is invalid "once again" by an attack on my credibility, and the conclusion of what I said above was based on your aforementioned complaints about reduced-recasting of Shadow Shot due to its increased initiative cost which "neuters a thief's ability to blind his opponent" despite a disproportionate gain in damage per cast and the fact that BP is the better blind to begin with if that's what you're trying to achieve. > > The PI bit and comments on spam is my mistake; for whatever reason, I got brought to this post when looking at the PI thread and thought you were complaining about both. No WvW has historically never been balanced as stated by the Devs years ago. When a developer comes out and states "We don't balance the game for WvW" that is the definition of an imbalanced game mode. This is fact and not arguable. What does this do to your argument about the damage of shadow shot in WvW? Completely negates it They balance the game according to the PvP game mode of conquest. As we all know this is the standard. The meta is ever changing just like any other PvP game. What you are confusing as a stale meta with is a game that has set rules & objectives. This is the same for all MOBAS, FPS, etc games as well so once again you have zero point. Now onto shadow shot and it's increase in initiative cost. The reason i'm against the increase in init cost is b/c it creates an unnecessarily bigger window of opportunity to hit a thief, higher skill floor/ceiling on the highest skill floor/ceiling class in game, and further destroys aggressive thief play. Now I should not have to break down those statements but I will if you do not understand them. As to your "credibility" and me attacking you first. No once again I am using fact instead of feelings/emotions like you. You've lobbied for years to nerf D/P so thief could get buffs to other weaponsets. Namely your favorite D/D. You continued this charade of justice during times when thief was the worst class in the game. You've lobbied for balance based on your full signet 1 shot wombo combo D/D build. This was/is the basis for all your arguments on balance. So your credibility is zero due to the preposterous opinions you have & blatant disregard of overall game health/balance in terms of PvP. My statement that you have zero credibility is not an attack, but a statement of fact that you've created for yourself. Thank You p.s. If you would like to discuss thief balance further please create a thread in the thief subforum and @ me. Otherwise this thread is about necromancers in the necromancer sub forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anchoku.8142 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Sometimes, I wonder if PvP should not be a scaled up version of Keg Brawl. That would certainly eliminate issues with build balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pah.4931 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"Jinn Galen.2468" said: > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > If reaper would be way tankier and had way more dmg, then we could talk about a meta change > > Why do you need more damage? Reaper has the damage. Shroud skills are painful even on guardians and warriors. Axe 2 alone can demolish squishies. What reaper needs is a reliable way to deal this damage. Revert shroud nerfs. We need those so much for survivability so we can deliver our payloads. > I agree here. I rarely feel as if I am not outputting enough damage. But for how slow we are, it's incredible Anet doesn't think we don't deserve more defensive abilities (or shroud to be reverted AT LEAST). The "more damage" people are usually raiders/pvers who want to make Power Reaper raid viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"pah.4931" said: > > @"Jinn Galen.2468" said: > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > If reaper would be way tankier and had way more dmg, then we could talk about a meta change > > > > Why do you need more damage? Reaper has the damage. Shroud skills are painful even on guardians and warriors. Axe 2 alone can demolish squishies. What reaper needs is a reliable way to deal this damage. Revert shroud nerfs. We need those so much for survivability so we can deliver our payloads. > > > > I agree here. I rarely feel as if I am not outputting enough damage. But for how slow we are, it's incredible Anet doesn't think we don't deserve more defensive abilities (or shroud to be reverted AT LEAST). > > The "more damage" people are usually raiders/pvers who want to make Power Reaper raid viable. Its a little about both. Anet needs to define what we should be doing:Should we only use reaper for 2 buttons or leave? or are we supposed to stay in the whole time? and if so, then reaper abilities to dps should be something. I feel like:Getting out of shroud and being stuck getting life force is a pain, and using greatsword feels sluggish. to fast moving targets who spam AOES. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"pah.4931" said: > > > @"Jinn Galen.2468" said: > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > > > If reaper would be way tankier and had way more dmg, then we could talk about a meta change > > > > > > Why do you need more damage? Reaper has the damage. Shroud skills are painful even on guardians and warriors. Axe 2 alone can demolish squishies. What reaper needs is a reliable way to deal this damage. Revert shroud nerfs. We need those so much for survivability so we can deliver our payloads. > > > > > > > I agree here. I rarely feel as if I am not outputting enough damage. But for how slow we are, it's incredible Anet doesn't think we don't deserve more defensive abilities (or shroud to be reverted AT LEAST). > > > > The "more damage" people are usually raiders/pvers who want to make Power Reaper raid viable. > > Its a little about both. > > Anet needs to define what we should be doing:Should we only use reaper for 2 buttons or leave? or are we supposed to stay in the whole time? and if so, then reaper abilities to dps should be something. > > I feel like:Getting out of shroud and being stuck getting life force is a pain, and using greatsword feels sluggish. to fast moving targets who spam AOES. That, or the build paths need to provide support for one choice or the other. The base shroud degen nerf + removal of VP + removal of SoS + nerf to CV killed off shroud builds, and the buffs to base damage just seem excessive such that really the only viable way to play with RS is by putting it into a rotation for PvE, spamming 1-5 before LF expires, and then going back to AA/Gravedigger spam. I never had a problem killing things/players with the previous damage values. The AA could have used some tweaks to have made it worth staying in shroud for, but otherwise the kit was pretty solid. If they want us to be allowed to sit in shroud, we need options for a lot of LF recovery while in shroud, which is something I did for the PvP formats, and it worked swimmingly. If they want it just as a DPS tool, reaper needs more defenses while outside of shroud, or just simply better traits and a better baseline reaper shroud. Personally, I'd really just prefer a revert of the various trait nerfs/incorporate them into base shroud (like the 7s cooldown on SoS) to not be busted on Scourge and make SR a little bit less mandatory for people not wanting to play shroud-based/aggressive bet-em-up. But the fluidity and ability to maintain pressure are critical for a melee bruiser with overall mobility to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killfil.3472 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Damnit why isnt core shroud being overalled ;-; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarrs.4831 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Scourge nerfed into the ground; not exactly surprised. That Well of Blood change, though... That's a crazy amount of health. Am I being really optimistic in seeing a revive-happy Blood/Wells Support Scourge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 > @"Sarrs.4831" said: > Scourge nerfed into the ground; not exactly surprised. > > That Well of Blood change, though... That's a crazy amount of health. Am I being really optimistic in seeing a revive-happy Blood/Wells Support Scourge? But at the same time, they heavily nerv the pull from transfusion by another 5 seconds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetatis.5418 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > @"Sarrs.4831" said: > > Scourge nerfed into the ground; not exactly surprised. > > > > That Well of Blood change, though... That's a crazy amount of health. Am I being really optimistic in seeing a revive-happy Blood/Wells Support Scourge? > > But at the same time, they heavily nerv the pull from transfusion by another 5 seconds... which is a secret "buff" for reaper again *cough* and tbh transfusion was always niche anyway. the risk of pulling people into aoes. or stacking downstates so that they are easier to get bombed is way to apparent. i would have loved the heal without the pull (always prefered that approach :-/ ). scourge will stay super strong, atleast in wvw. its more about timimng bombs then, instead of flooding the area with low cd-aoe. but teams get rewarded better if they time their cooldowns (be it the bomb, or baiting a bomb and then pushing hard with melee classes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ketsu.4569 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 lol @ people who think this will kill necro. There is a very good reason that Scourge is the only spec that has two meta rated builds on metabattle right now. The nature of shade skills being instant cast means you can still be basically playing core necro while spamming shade abilities. It's an innately overtuned design and will still be viable past these nerfs by the sheer fact that scourge is capable of doing two things at once at all times. If you actually see good top 250 rated necros play you will notice that they hardly even rely on the sand shade and it's their actual skill use and well timed execution of fear combos that kills people. If you are seriously having trouble playing scourge you may want to seriously consider learning other classes, because the reality is scourge is extremely easy to play to the point where it becomes a crutch. It is soooooo obvious when fighting a scourge which ones understand the mechanics of other classes and which ones do not. You don't have to learn anything about sPvP to be effective as scourge, and thus playing it causes you to become lazy and less aware of what's going on. Decent players notice your laziness and exploit it. Then you die. Then you come on the necro board and start performing mental gymnastic backflips to try and explain why the top rated meta build is somehow not good enough. It's just silly. Finally the icing on the cake: when a minor nerf comes along you think your class has been destroyed **when the truth is that your ability to play the game has been destroyed by playing an ezmode spec.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieSlayeR.8702 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > lol @ people who think this will kill necro. There is a very good reason that Scourge is the only spec that has two meta rated builds on metabattle right now. *metabattle* ... After the scourge nerf theres gonna be 2 reaper builds meta :b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ketsu.4569 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 reaper master rayc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anchoku.8142 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 > @"Sarrs.4831" said: > Scourge nerfed into the ground; not exactly surprised. > > That Well of Blood change, though... That's a crazy amount of health. Am I being really optimistic in seeing a revive-happy Blood/Wells Support Scourge? In a running game where clusters of allies are prime AoE targets, WoB loses a lot of effectiveness. I can see the logic in the buff outside of PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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