apharma.3741 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said: > ### Mesmer > > #### Skills > > - Illusion of Life: Reduced the cooldown from 120 seconds to 75 seconds in PvP and WvW > - Phantasmal Disenchanter – Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP and WvW > > #### Traits > > - Elusive Mind: This trait now applies 4 seconds of Exhaustion when breaking a stun > - Compounding Power: Reduced the outgoing damage buff per stack from 3% to 2% in PvP and WvW > - Phantasmal Force: Reduced the Might granted from 3 stacks to 2 stacks in PvP and WvW > - Mirror of Anguish: Increased cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only Source: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29690/pvp-wvw-skill-split-release/p1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaylin.1860 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 So short... Will hardly change much for Mesmers themselves. I'm more interested in the other changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Xaylin.1860" said: > So short... Will hardly change much for Mesmers themselves. I'm more interested in the other changes. Pretty much but exhaustion will at least make elusive mind less of a sure pick. It's also worth pointing out to anyone who doesn't know, exhaustion hurts mirage far more than daredevil as you won't regenerate any endurance and have no source of flat endurance given outside of adventure runes/energy sigils so all that vigor and endurance regen food they run in WvW will be useless for 4s if you break a stun. I have a feeling we will see more pDisenchanter changes in the future or even in the patch, hoping it's just a damage reduction or damage per boon removed might be a nice direction to push it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Edit - I like the solution of adding Exhaustion to Elusive Mind, although the duration of 4 seconds will have to be monitored because Mirage still only has 2 dodge bars, so it could end up being too punishing. I'd sooner see (and this benefits UC for thief as well, because as I stated in the past I believe it was excessively nerfed) Exhaustion simply modified to a 50% reduction in endurance regen (similar to weakness) rather than stopping all endurance regen. Edit on further reflection I'd rather see other solutions for EM, because of the unique situation of mirage already being able to dodge when cced such that EM becomes a detrimental effect aside from the condi cleanse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"Xaylin.1860" said: > > So short... Will hardly change much for Mesmers themselves. I'm more interested in the other changes. > > Pretty much but exhaustion will at least make elusive mind less of a sure pick. It's also worth pointing out to anyone who doesn't know, exhaustion hurts mirage far more than daredevil as you won't regenerate any endurance and have no source of flat endurance given outside of adventure runes/energy sigils so all that vigor and endurance regen food they run in WvW will be useless for 4s if you break a stun. > > I have a feeling we will see more pDisenchanter changes in the future or even in the patch, hoping it's just a damage reduction or damage per boon removed might be a nice direction to push it. I don’t think exhaustion will hurt roamers too much unless they’re fighting outnumbered. It will mean going to to decoy/blink or another similar combination as the primary stun breaks but nothing unusual there. Those running in larger groups might be. The wiki just says endurance regeneration is reduced, by how much is it reduced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaylin.1860 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I agree on EM. I also don't think it is the right way to deal with it because Mirage simply has way less Endurance than Daredevils. However, I'd rather see it nerfed for the better of the class as a whole. Hopefully we'll see less whining - although I'd argue it's not even as strong as some players might think it is. But people will probably find the next thing to complain about in no time. :s ;) And yes, Disenchanter will probably be nerfed even more. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaylin.1860 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > The wiki just says endurance regeneration is reduced, by how much is it reduced? Should be 100%? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriOri.8724 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Exhaustion for 4 seconds is pretty huge nerf considering that we don't have flat endurance regen like DD had, not to mention that mirage cloak was a heavily offensive tool for u, whereas UC was purely defensive. I wasn't that happy with it on UC either. I would much rather see EM changed entirely than have to deal with such a shitshow of an attempt to balance it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Xaylin.1860" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > The wiki just says endurance regeneration is reduced, by how much is it reduced? > > Should be 100%? > I don’t know ??♂️ I’ve looked but maybe my google skills aren’t on par today because I’ve not seen where it gives a number just “reduced”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 The only weird thing with Mirage compared with Daredevil is that Mirage can still dodge when stunned without EM. That puts Mirage in the weird situation where picking EM is worse from an endurance regen perspective than picking IH or the other GM trait. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I don't have the choice not to break stun and still evade for 1s while maintaining endurance regen and clearing a condition. Hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaylin.1860 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Curunen.8729" said: > The only weird thing with Mirage compared with Daredevil is that Mirage can still dodge when stunned without EM. And that's why I'd argue some people are delusional when it comes to the actual benefit EM provides. :# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Xaylin.1860" said: > > @"Curunen.8729" said: > > The only weird thing with Mirage compared with Daredevil is that Mirage can still dodge when stunned without EM. > And that's why I'd argue some people are delusional when it comes to the actual benefit EM provides. :# > In wvw it makes the impossible possible - I've had some batkitten insane escapes and victories thanks to EM. And the condi clear is not to be sniffed at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apharma.3741 Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 Yeah for me one of the strongest aspects of this trait was the condition cleanse on dodge, without it you're reliant on either going insp, slotting a clear as utility or solely on jaunt which I've done but it's really punishing. Sure stunbreaking was insanely strong but personally I'd rather they removed the stunbreak aspect entirely and changed elusive mind to clear one condition on gaining mirage cloak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaylin.1860 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 It surely enables you to do some interesting gameplay. But it doesn't carry Mirage and the condition removal is just nice to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 To be honest I'd still have preferred a flat ICD of 10s on the stunbreak portion, with a clear visual tell - ie icon on status bar, aura arround player, UI effect on endurance meter, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriOri.8724 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > Yeah for me one of the strongest aspects of this trait was the condition cleanse on dodge, without it you're reliant on either going insp, slotting a clear as utility or solely on jaunt which I've done but it's really punishing. Sure stunbreaking was insanely strong but personally I'd rather they removed the stunbreak aspect entirely and changed elusive mind to clear one condition on gaining mirage cloak. I can get behind removing the stunbreak on dodge. But yea, this change effectively removes one of the only condi cleanses that mirage brings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curunen.8729 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 > @"Xaylin.1860" said: > It surely enables you to do some interesting gameplay. But it doesn't carry Mirage and the condition removal is just nice to have. More than nice - it allows not having to take any utility condi removal or Inspiration, beyond Jaunt and things like cleansing sigils. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Levetty.1279 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I agree it isn't the best way to nerf elusive mind but since PvPers think we have more dodges on Mirage then Daredevil I was expecting harsher. Either way I already don't use Elusive Mind for my WvW roaming build I've been trying out. This helps put my mind at ease that PvE Mesmer won't be gutted due to PvP complaints though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlashugged.7642 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I'm somewhat okay with this, because mirage cloak is already super strong and breaks a few rules of good gameplay. If there is an exhaustion application though, I'd prefer there to be a more elegant option for the stunbreak, so you could choose not to break the stun and still have the dodge. I would have preferred a more interesting buff for illusion of life than simply reducing its cooldown to slightly less garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musu.9205 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 well since they are going to nerf EM , maybe they can finally buff mirage trait line which is trash , only carried by EM .but i doubt it . keep in mind in pvp thread , cmc already said mesmer may need more nerfs and the list isn't final . I just hope anet doesn't do those stupid nerfs for cry from pvp noobs and send mesmer back to pre-trait rework stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICENIKESHOE.7128 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Will have to see how EM works after nerf. Keep in mind having a stunbreak on dodge gives mesmer a lot more freedom in utility, a feature many classes would trade their valuables traits for. This also gave a lot more survival to mirages with portal, which any chrono or core mesmer would have to sacrifice stun break for. So at worst mirage is just back to similar viability to chrono but with more sustain damage and less defense in mirage. With so many passive stunbreak nerfed in other class I feel like EM should still give mirage an edge over others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlette.9684 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I don’t use EM on either my power or condi build, so from my perspective I get a buff, when fighting Mesmers that do. I’ll take it. Edit: I’m sure @"Jazz.4639" is loving that one too. :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velimere.7685 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 > @"apharma.3741" said: > > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said: > > ### Mesmer > > > > #### Skills > > > > - Illusion of Life: Reduced the cooldown from 120 seconds to 75 seconds in PvP and WvW > > - Phantasmal Disenchanter – Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP and WvW > > > > #### Traits > > > > - Elusive Mind: This trait now applies 4 seconds of Exhaustion when breaking a stun > > - Compounding Power: Reduced the outgoing damage buff per stack from 3% to 2% in PvP and WvW > > - Phantasmal Force: Reduced the Might granted from 3 stacks to 2 stacks in PvP and WvW > > - Mirror of Anguish: Increased cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only > > Source: > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29690/pvp-wvw-skill-split-release/p1 I would much rather the "breaks stun" portion of Elusive Mind have a 10-second ICD than 4 seconds of exhaustion. Mirage doesn't have baked in endurance gains like Daredevil does, nor does it have 3 endurance bars for 3 subsequent dodges; at the very least, the exhaustion should be 2 seconds and not 4 seconds on Elusive Mind. Edit: Actually, the better fix is to make Nomad's Endurance cause shatters to give 10 endurance each and for False Oasis to give 10 endurance each pulse for a total of 50 (5 endurance each pulse in PvP for a total of 25). This way the exhaustion would interact with Mirage like how it interacts with Daredevil instead of gutting the spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musu.9205 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 > @"Velimere.7685" said: > > @"apharma.3741" said: > > > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said: > > > ### Mesmer > > > > > > #### Skills > > > > > > - Illusion of Life: Reduced the cooldown from 120 seconds to 75 seconds in PvP and WvW > > > - Phantasmal Disenchanter – Increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 25 seconds in PvP and WvW > > > > > > #### Traits > > > > > > - Elusive Mind: This trait now applies 4 seconds of Exhaustion when breaking a stun > > > - Compounding Power: Reduced the outgoing damage buff per stack from 3% to 2% in PvP and WvW > > > - Phantasmal Force: Reduced the Might granted from 3 stacks to 2 stacks in PvP and WvW > > > - Mirror of Anguish: Increased cooldown from 60 seconds to 90 seconds in PvP only > > > > Source: > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29690/pvp-wvw-skill-split-release/p1 > > I would much rather the "breaks stun" portion of Elusive Mind have a 10-second ICD than 4 seconds of exhaustion. Mirage doesn't have baked in endurance gains like Daredevil does, nor does it have 3 endurance bars for 3 subsequent dodges; at the very least, the exhaustion should be 2 seconds and not 4 seconds on Elusive Mind. > > Edit: Actually, the better fix is to make Nomad's Endurance cause shatters to give 10 endurance each and for False Oasis to give 10 endurance each pulse for a total of 50 (5 endurance each pulse in PvP for a total of 25). This way the exhaustion would interact with Mirage like how it interacts with Daredevil instead of gutting the spec. agree but its anet so gg for us . i do hope they don't just stop at EM , the entire mirage trait line is trash which needs buff after EM Nerfs . also when other class got useless weapon buffs ,where are our long waited offhand sword / pistol / staff / scepter buffs (scepter may need a total rework tho )? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 If exhaustion actually mean no endurance regen for 4s, well that just mean no more EM in WvW period. Not gonna be worth picking it even for the stunbreak. No endurance regen for 4s is a death sentence vs any decent enemy considering you almost have to dodge on cd that means loooooong cd on dodge so the stunbreak wont do anything anyway because you cant dodge when you need it. But I dont really mind. Worst case scenario it just mean I take chrono for more damage or more bunker (freedom to choose runes wopwop). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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