Upcoming Mesmer WvW/PvP skill split.

[RabbitUp.8294]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > Yeah for me one of the strongest aspects of this trait was the condition cleanse on dodge, without it you're reliant on either going insp, slotting a clear as utility or solely on jaunt which I've done but it's really punishing. Sure stunbreaking was insanely strong but personally I'd rather they removed the stunbreak aspect entirely and changed elusive mind to clear one condition on gaining mirage cloak.

>

> I can get behind removing the stunbreak on dodge. But yea, this change effectively removes one of the only condi cleanses that mirage brings

 

So, don't use it while you are stunned and avoid the penatly?

[musu.9205]

> @"RabbitUp.8294" said:

> > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > Yeah for me one of the strongest aspects of this trait was the condition cleanse on dodge, without it you're reliant on either going insp, slotting a clear as utility or solely on jaunt which I've done but it's really punishing. Sure stunbreaking was insanely strong but personally I'd rather they removed the stunbreak aspect entirely and changed elusive mind to clear one condition on gaining mirage cloak.

> >

> > I can get behind removing the stunbreak on dodge. But yea, this change effectively removes one of the only condi cleanses that mirage brings

>

> So, don't use it while you are stunned and avoid the penatly?

 

i think the point is you can use dodge when stunned even without EM , so essentially ,after the nerf the stunbreaker part will do more punishment .but this is the only trait for condition cleanse . if that way i think most of us would prefer just keep condition cleanse and add something else than a punishment .

[Exciton.8942]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> If exhaustion actually mean no endurance regen for 4s, well that just mean no more EM in WvW period. Not gonna be worth picking it even for the stunbreak. No endurance regen for 4s is a death sentence vs any decent enemy considering you almost have to dodge on cd that means loooooong cd on dodge so the stunbreak wont do anything anyway because you cant dodge when you need it.

>

> But I dont really mind. Worst case scenario it just mean I take chrono for more damage or more bunker (freedom to choose runes wopwop).

 

I think you can deal with the nerf way easier in WvW given how strong sigil of energy is. It will be much more impactful in PvP.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Exciton.8942" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > If exhaustion actually mean no endurance regen for 4s, well that just mean no more EM in WvW period. Not gonna be worth picking it even for the stunbreak. No endurance regen for 4s is a death sentence vs any decent enemy considering you almost have to dodge on cd that means loooooong cd on dodge so the stunbreak wont do anything anyway because you cant dodge when you need it.

> >

> > But I dont really mind. Worst case scenario it just mean I take chrono for more damage or more bunker (freedom to choose runes wopwop).

>

> I think you can deal with the nerf way easier in WvW given how strong sigil of energy is. It will be much more impactful in PvP.

 

In WvW it will be more of an impact because you utilise +40% endurance regen food which gets completely nullified by exhaustion as does your vigor. Most builds already run double energy and sadly adventure runes are kinda meh for power builds. Most YouTube compilations with outnumbered fights the people are running double energy and usually was endurance regen food no matter the class because dodge spam has been so strong.

[AliamRationem.5172]

I think the EM change is a bad move. The stun break is obviously powerful, but it's much less powerful for Mirage than it would be for any other class. They can still dodge and teleport while stunned. If it's a choice between 4s exhaustion and simply riding out the stun, I think I'd rather take my chances with the stun! However, it's also a condi cleanse - something Mirage doesn't have good access to.

 

I think they should have come up with a totally different function for this trait. Mirage doesn't need a stun break on dodge.

[Curunen.8729]

If the stun/daze/cc lasts less than 1second (less than the evade duration of a dodge) then I'd rather not break it and wait it out - while maintaining endurance regen. EM will do more harm than good in such a situation.

 

Please Anet go either the ICD route (10s on stunbreak only with visual indicator), or that good suggestion of converting all cc into a daze with NO ICD (allows movement but no use of skills while dazed).

 

Or something else like EM only makes all deception skills break stun rather than dodge breaking stun.

 

Of course whatever you do, the condi cleanse on dodge must not be touched - that part is balanced.

[MikeL.8260]

Like I said before, we will find our workaround with this nerf which I agree is really big and the whinners will just look for the next thing to cry about.

ICD is actually a pretty good idea, it will "balance" EM out.

[Arlette.9684]

Next on the warrior agenta shitlist will be IH. Because why not?

[Solori.6025]

> @"Arlette.9684" said:

> Next on the warrior agenta shitlist will be IH. Because why not?

 

Actually in the pvp subsection

People are asking for nerfs to the entire mesmer kit while spewing misinformation .

I have seen nerf request for

Shatters, Stealth, jaunt, portal, mirage thrust, dodgeing in general, dodging reflects ( somehow this turned into perma reflect)

 

Most likely we will see a massive nerf to everything with no consideration to how mesmer actually plays.

So be prepared to be a PvE only class

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29818/mesmer-deceives-its-way-past-the-pvp-wvw-split#latest

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > Next on the warrior agenta shitlist will be IH. Because why not?

>

> Actually in the pvp subsection

> People are asking for nerfs to the entire mesmer kit while spewing misinformation .

> I have seen nerf request for

> Shatters, Stealth, jaunt, portal, mirage thrust, dodgeing in general, dodging reflects ( somehow this turned into perma reflect)

>

> Most likely we will see a massive nerf to everything with no consideration to how mesmer actually plays.

> So be prepared to be a PvE only class

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29818/mesmer-deceives-its-way-past-the-pvp-wvw-split#latest

 

Too be fair, given just how strong Mesmer is. IF this is all that they get in terms of nerfs (i am expecting more...) they will have gotten off VERY easy.

[Levetty.1279]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> So be prepared to be a PvE only class

Finally! =)

[Solori.6025]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > > Next on the warrior agenta shitlist will be IH. Because why not?

> >

> > Actually in the pvp subsection

> > People are asking for nerfs to the entire mesmer kit while spewing misinformation .

> > I have seen nerf request for

> > Shatters, Stealth, jaunt, portal, mirage thrust, dodgeing in general, dodging reflects ( somehow this turned into perma reflect)

> >

> > Most likely we will see a massive nerf to everything with no consideration to how mesmer actually plays.

> > So be prepared to be a PvE only class

> > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29818/mesmer-deceives-its-way-past-the-pvp-wvw-split#latest

>

> Too be fair, given just how strong Mesmer is. IF this is all that they get in terms of nerfs (i am expecting more...) they will have gotten off VERY easy.

 

Nerfing a class out of meta is getting off easy?!?

 

...Only in GW2

[Arlette.9684]

> @"Levetty.1279" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > So be prepared to be a PvE only class

> Finally! =)

 

Come on, have mercy on my soul! :cry:

[apharma.3741]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > Next on the warrior agenta shitlist will be IH. Because why not?

>

> Actually in the pvp subsection

> People are asking for nerfs to the entire mesmer kit while spewing misinformation .

> I have seen nerf request for

> Shatters, Stealth, jaunt, portal, mirage thrust, dodgeing in general, dodging reflects ( somehow this turned into perma reflect)

>

> Most likely we will see a massive nerf to everything with no consideration to how mesmer actually plays.

> So be prepared to be a PvE only class

> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29818/mesmer-deceives-its-way-past-the-pvp-wvw-split#latest

 

In all fairness a lot of that comes from 1 disgruntled feef and we all know they're idea of balance is skewed to put it mildly.

[Kahyos.1437]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > > > Next on the warrior agenta shitlist will be IH. Because why not?

> > >

> > > Actually in the pvp subsection

> > > People are asking for nerfs to the entire mesmer kit while spewing misinformation .

> > > I have seen nerf request for

> > > Shatters, Stealth, jaunt, portal, mirage thrust, dodgeing in general, dodging reflects ( somehow this turned into perma reflect)

> > >

> > > Most likely we will see a massive nerf to everything with no consideration to how mesmer actually plays.

> > > So be prepared to be a PvE only class

> > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29818/mesmer-deceives-its-way-past-the-pvp-wvw-split#latest

> >

> > Too be fair, given just how strong Mesmer is. IF this is all that they get in terms of nerfs (i am expecting more...) they will have gotten off VERY easy.

>

> Nerfing a class out of meta is getting off easy?!?

>

> ...Only in GW2

 

If everyone is nerfed to revenant level, then everyone will be meta, which is good. Remember, mesmer is not the only class that gets nerfed, warriors, druids and other superior classes are.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> Nerfing a class out of meta is getting off easy?!?

>

> ...Only in GW2

 

The changes (so far) have done very little. EM nerf was VERY much needed. Though they kinda made it pretty much useless. But that is Anet for you its either good or useless :/ Lol

 

So far very little in terms of actual damage nerfs and with the kinda damage that Mesmer can pull out, especially from stealth i am kinda shocked. Though i do expect this is just some of the nerfs Mesmer will be getting.

 

 

 

 

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

> @"Kahyos.1437" said:

> If everyone is nerfed to revenant level, then everyone will be meta, which is good. Remember, mesmer is not the only class that gets nerfed, warriors, druids and other superior classes are.

 

From what i have seen, unless they have added more. mesmer have gotten off lightly compared to other classes.

[apharma.3741]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > Nerfing a class out of meta is getting off easy?!?

> >

> > ...Only in GW2

>

> The changes (so far) have done very little. EM nerf was VERY much needed. Though they kinda made it pretty much useless. But that is Anet for you its either good or useless :/ Lol

>

> So far very little in terms of actual damage nerfs and with the kinda damage that Mesmer can pull out, especially from stealth i am kinda shocked. Though i do expect this is just some of the nerfs Mesmer will be getting.

>

>

>

>

 

The problem is that this damage has remained largely the same since launch, the only significant changes were Superiority Complex change to a crit damage buff and possibly phantasmal force allowing greater might but master of fragmentation is nearly always better. Someone might bring up Mental Anguish, yes the upper limit is I believe 10% higher but the lower limit is 5% less than the old trait so there's give and take there. Most of the damage is also pinned to Mind Wrack an 11s CD and the burst comes from a 3/4s cast of mirror blade, this is actually a lot higher CD than most damage combos in the game at the moment. I know a holo can do 2-3 times more damage in those 10s than a mesmer can with the burst.

 

The other problem is that if you look at mesmer weapon skills they're hard to really allow sustained damage without a major rework of the weapon skills too. A great example is staff, has chaos storm, phantasms and then 2 skills that do no damage or irrelevant damage. Sword main hand, sure blurred frenzy is kinda good but they had to make it do double damage in PvE because illusionary leap does next to no damage. Focus offhand, 1 damage, 1 utility. Pistol is a bizarre mix of power and condition damage the phantasm does good power damage but without traiting poor condi, magic bullet does good condition damage now and stuns but poor power damage.

 

Then look at the traits. Where are the + all mesmer damage mods? There's Fragility, Superiority Complex, Fencers finesse I guess and compounding power. There's lots of traits that will buff a certain aspect, there's about 6 or 7 traits that buff either shatters directly or phantasms directly for damage and this isn't including things like quickness for mesmer and phantasm on spawn etc.

 

**TL:DR** it's not a straight forward or easy fix without deleting mesmer + lots of changes coming all over.

[Xaylin.1860]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> From what i have seen, unless they have added more. mesmer have gotten off lightly compared to other classes.

 

While I do feel that many people are on an unjustified rant in many regards (not in all) regarding Mesmer, I'm quite sure Mesmer will see adjustments soon enough. ANet is probably just giving it a bit more time since they just released the rework.

[Levetty.1279]

When complaining about the damage of Power Mesmer, remember they are planning to buff its hard counter including a pretty big buff to Heartseeker of all things.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > Nerfing a class out of meta is getting off easy?!?

> > >

> > > ...Only in GW2

> >

> > The changes (so far) have done very little. EM nerf was VERY much needed. Though they kinda made it pretty much useless. But that is Anet for you its either good or useless :/ Lol

> >

> > So far very little in terms of actual damage nerfs and with the kinda damage that Mesmer can pull out, especially from stealth i am kinda shocked. Though i do expect this is just some of the nerfs Mesmer will be getting.

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

> The problem is that this damage has remained largely the same since launch, the only significant changes were Superiority Complex change to a crit damage buff and possibly phantasmal force allowing greater might but master of fragmentation is nearly always better. Someone might bring up Mental Anguish, yes the upper limit is I believe 10% higher but the lower limit is 5% less than the old trait so there's give and take there. Most of the damage is also pinned to Mind Wrack an 11s CD and the burst comes from a 3/4s cast of mirror blade,** this is actually a lot higher CD than most damage combos in the game at the moment. I know a holo can do 2-3 times more damage in those 10s than a mesmer can with the burst.**

>

> The other problem is that if you look at mesmer weapon skills they're hard to really allow sustained damage without a major rework of the weapon skills too. A great example is staff, has chaos storm, phantasms and then 2 skills that do no damage or irrelevant damage. Sword main hand, sure blurred frenzy is kinda good but they had to make it do double damage in PvE because illusionary leap does next to no damage. Focus offhand, 1 damage, 1 utility. Pistol is a bizarre mix of power and condition damage the phantasm does good power damage but without traiting poor condi, magic bullet does good condition damage now and stuns but poor power damage.

>

> Then look at the traits. Where are the + all mesmer damage mods? There's Fragility, Superiority Complex, Fencers finesse I guess and compounding power. There's lots of traits that will buff a certain aspect, there's about 6 or 7 traits that buff either shatters directly or phantasms directly for damage and this isn't including things like quickness for mesmer and phantasm on spawn etc.

>

> **TL:DR** it's not a straight forward or easy fix without deleting mesmer + lots of changes coming all over.

 

I agree, but most people who cry for balance do not compare a complete build putting its burst together to the sustained damage that other builds can do.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > > Nerfing a class out of meta is getting off easy?!?

> > > >

> > > > ...Only in GW2

> > >

> > > The changes (so far) have done very little. EM nerf was VERY much needed. Though they kinda made it pretty much useless. But that is Anet for you its either good or useless :/ Lol

> > >

> > > So far very little in terms of actual damage nerfs and with the kinda damage that Mesmer can pull out, especially from stealth i am kinda shocked. Though i do expect this is just some of the nerfs Mesmer will be getting.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > The problem is that this damage has remained largely the same since launch, the only significant changes were Superiority Complex change to a crit damage buff and possibly phantasmal force allowing greater might but master of fragmentation is nearly always better. Someone might bring up Mental Anguish, yes the upper limit is I believe 10% higher but the lower limit is 5% less than the old trait so there's give and take there. Most of the damage is also pinned to Mind Wrack an 11s CD and the burst comes from a 3/4s cast of mirror blade,** this is actually a lot higher CD than most damage combos in the game at the moment. I know a holo can do 2-3 times more damage in those 10s than a mesmer can with the burst.**

> >

> > The other problem is that if you look at mesmer weapon skills they're hard to really allow sustained damage without a major rework of the weapon skills too. A great example is staff, has chaos storm, phantasms and then 2 skills that do no damage or irrelevant damage. Sword main hand, sure blurred frenzy is kinda good but they had to make it do double damage in PvE because illusionary leap does next to no damage. Focus offhand, 1 damage, 1 utility. Pistol is a bizarre mix of power and condition damage the phantasm does good power damage but without traiting poor condi, magic bullet does good condition damage now and stuns but poor power damage.

> >

> > Then look at the traits. Where are the + all mesmer damage mods? There's Fragility, Superiority Complex, Fencers finesse I guess and compounding power. There's lots of traits that will buff a certain aspect, there's about 6 or 7 traits that buff either shatters directly or phantasms directly for damage and this isn't including things like quickness for mesmer and phantasm on spawn etc.

> >

> > **TL:DR** it's not a straight forward or easy fix without deleting mesmer + lots of changes coming all over.

>

> I agree, but most people who cry for balance do not compare a complete build putting its burst together to the sustained damage that other builds can do.

 

Exactly. The people crying the loudest take everything, every single utility and trait, combine it into some mythical build and complain. Condi Mirage in PvP has too much stealth! But the meta build didn’t use but one stealth. And there are so so many other things. It’s honestly ridiculous the amount of straight up whining you hear from people that either never play Mesmer, have only played a few hours and only fought noobs, or have played it enough to understand the class but don’t like fighting it.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > > > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > > > Nerfing a class out of meta is getting off easy?!?

> > > > >

> > > > > ...Only in GW2

> > > >

> > > > The changes (so far) have done very little. EM nerf was VERY much needed. Though they kinda made it pretty much useless. But that is Anet for you its either good or useless :/ Lol

> > > >

> > > > So far very little in terms of actual damage nerfs and with the kinda damage that Mesmer can pull out, especially from stealth i am kinda shocked. Though i do expect this is just some of the nerfs Mesmer will be getting.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > The problem is that this damage has remained largely the same since launch, the only significant changes were Superiority Complex change to a crit damage buff and possibly phantasmal force allowing greater might but master of fragmentation is nearly always better. Someone might bring up Mental Anguish, yes the upper limit is I believe 10% higher but the lower limit is 5% less than the old trait so there's give and take there. Most of the damage is also pinned to Mind Wrack an 11s CD and the burst comes from a 3/4s cast of mirror blade,** this is actually a lot higher CD than most damage combos in the game at the moment. I know a holo can do 2-3 times more damage in those 10s than a mesmer can with the burst.**

> > >

> > > The other problem is that if you look at mesmer weapon skills they're hard to really allow sustained damage without a major rework of the weapon skills too. A great example is staff, has chaos storm, phantasms and then 2 skills that do no damage or irrelevant damage. Sword main hand, sure blurred frenzy is kinda good but they had to make it do double damage in PvE because illusionary leap does next to no damage. Focus offhand, 1 damage, 1 utility. Pistol is a bizarre mix of power and condition damage the phantasm does good power damage but without traiting poor condi, magic bullet does good condition damage now and stuns but poor power damage.

> > >

> > > Then look at the traits. Where are the + all mesmer damage mods? There's Fragility, Superiority Complex, Fencers finesse I guess and compounding power. There's lots of traits that will buff a certain aspect, there's about 6 or 7 traits that buff either shatters directly or phantasms directly for damage and this isn't including things like quickness for mesmer and phantasm on spawn etc.

> > >

> > > **TL:DR** it's not a straight forward or easy fix without deleting mesmer + lots of changes coming all over.

> >

> > I agree, but most people who cry for balance do not compare a complete build putting its burst together to the sustained damage that other builds can do.

>

> Exactly. The people crying the loudest take everything, every single utility and trait, combine it into some mythical build and complain. Condi Mirage in PvP has too much stealth! But the meta build didn’t use but one stealth. And there are so so many other things. It’s honestly ridiculous the amount of straight up whining you hear from people that either never play Mesmer, have only played a few hours and only fought noobs, **or have played it enough to understand the class but don’t like fighting it.**

 

That last one grinds my gears the most. I can sort of accept people who are clueless and just don't get it, but people who whine for nerfs because they don't like fighting it is just sad.

 

I mean I find fighting warrior and necro really boring - like seriously boring - but tbh you'd never see me moaning about them because of it.

 

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > > > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > > > > Nerfing a class out of meta is getting off easy?!?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ...Only in GW2

> > > > >

> > > > > The changes (so far) have done very little. EM nerf was VERY much needed. Though they kinda made it pretty much useless. But that is Anet for you its either good or useless :/ Lol

> > > > >

> > > > > So far very little in terms of actual damage nerfs and with the kinda damage that Mesmer can pull out, especially from stealth i am kinda shocked. Though i do expect this is just some of the nerfs Mesmer will be getting.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > The problem is that this damage has remained largely the same since launch, the only significant changes were Superiority Complex change to a crit damage buff and possibly phantasmal force allowing greater might but master of fragmentation is nearly always better. Someone might bring up Mental Anguish, yes the upper limit is I believe 10% higher but the lower limit is 5% less than the old trait so there's give and take there. Most of the damage is also pinned to Mind Wrack an 11s CD and the burst comes from a 3/4s cast of mirror blade,** this is actually a lot higher CD than most damage combos in the game at the moment. I know a holo can do 2-3 times more damage in those 10s than a mesmer can with the burst.**

> > > >

> > > > The other problem is that if you look at mesmer weapon skills they're hard to really allow sustained damage without a major rework of the weapon skills too. A great example is staff, has chaos storm, phantasms and then 2 skills that do no damage or irrelevant damage. Sword main hand, sure blurred frenzy is kinda good but they had to make it do double damage in PvE because illusionary leap does next to no damage. Focus offhand, 1 damage, 1 utility. Pistol is a bizarre mix of power and condition damage the phantasm does good power damage but without traiting poor condi, magic bullet does good condition damage now and stuns but poor power damage.

> > > >

> > > > Then look at the traits. Where are the + all mesmer damage mods? There's Fragility, Superiority Complex, Fencers finesse I guess and compounding power. There's lots of traits that will buff a certain aspect, there's about 6 or 7 traits that buff either shatters directly or phantasms directly for damage and this isn't including things like quickness for mesmer and phantasm on spawn etc.

> > > >

> > > > **TL:DR** it's not a straight forward or easy fix without deleting mesmer + lots of changes coming all over.

> > >

> > > I agree, but most people who cry for balance do not compare a complete build putting its burst together to the sustained damage that other builds can do.

> >

> > Exactly. The people crying the loudest take everything, every single utility and trait, combine it into some mythical build and complain. Condi Mirage in PvP has too much stealth! But the meta build didn’t use but one stealth. And there are so so many other things. It’s honestly ridiculous the amount of straight up whining you hear from people that either never play Mesmer, have only played a few hours and only fought noobs, **or have played it enough to understand the class but don’t like fighting it.**

>

> That last one grinds my gears the most. I can sort of accept people who are clueless and just don't get it, but people who whine for nerfs because they don't like fighting it is just sad.

>

> I mean I find fighting warrior and necro really boring - like seriously boring - but tbh you'd never see me moaning about them because of it.

>

 

I’m that way with thieves. I hate fighting them, it’s always a boring waiting game. Back when medi guard was a really big thing I hated fighting them but I wasn’t calling for nerfs.

What’s bad is that these people are probably the majority and speak the loudest and that’s who Anet will listen to.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > > @"apharma.3741" said:

> > > > > > @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> > > > > > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > > > > > Nerfing a class out of meta is getting off easy?!?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > ...Only in GW2

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The changes (so far) have done very little. EM nerf was VERY much needed. Though they kinda made it pretty much useless. But that is Anet for you its either good or useless :/ Lol

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So far very little in terms of actual damage nerfs and with the kinda damage that Mesmer can pull out, especially from stealth i am kinda shocked. Though i do expect this is just some of the nerfs Mesmer will be getting.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > The problem is that this damage has remained largely the same since launch, the only significant changes were Superiority Complex change to a crit damage buff and possibly phantasmal force allowing greater might but master of fragmentation is nearly always better. Someone might bring up Mental Anguish, yes the upper limit is I believe 10% higher but the lower limit is 5% less than the old trait so there's give and take there. Most of the damage is also pinned to Mind Wrack an 11s CD and the burst comes from a 3/4s cast of mirror blade,** this is actually a lot higher CD than most damage combos in the game at the moment. I know a holo can do 2-3 times more damage in those 10s than a mesmer can with the burst.**

> > > > >

> > > > > The other problem is that if you look at mesmer weapon skills they're hard to really allow sustained damage without a major rework of the weapon skills too. A great example is staff, has chaos storm, phantasms and then 2 skills that do no damage or irrelevant damage. Sword main hand, sure blurred frenzy is kinda good but they had to make it do double damage in PvE because illusionary leap does next to no damage. Focus offhand, 1 damage, 1 utility. Pistol is a bizarre mix of power and condition damage the phantasm does good power damage but without traiting poor condi, magic bullet does good condition damage now and stuns but poor power damage.

> > > > >

> > > > > Then look at the traits. Where are the + all mesmer damage mods? There's Fragility, Superiority Complex, Fencers finesse I guess and compounding power. There's lots of traits that will buff a certain aspect, there's about 6 or 7 traits that buff either shatters directly or phantasms directly for damage and this isn't including things like quickness for mesmer and phantasm on spawn etc.

> > > > >

> > > > > **TL:DR** it's not a straight forward or easy fix without deleting mesmer + lots of changes coming all over.

> > > >

> > > > I agree, but most people who cry for balance do not compare a complete build putting its burst together to the sustained damage that other builds can do.

> > >

> > > Exactly. The people crying the loudest take everything, every single utility and trait, combine it into some mythical build and complain. Condi Mirage in PvP has too much stealth! But the meta build didn’t use but one stealth. And there are so so many other things. It’s honestly ridiculous the amount of straight up whining you hear from people that either never play Mesmer, have only played a few hours and only fought noobs, **or have played it enough to understand the class but don’t like fighting it.**

> >

> > That last one grinds my gears the most. I can sort of accept people who are clueless and just don't get it, but people who whine for nerfs because they don't like fighting it is just sad.

> >

> > I mean I find fighting warrior and necro really boring - like seriously boring - but tbh you'd never see me moaning about them because of it.

> >

>

> I’m that way with thieves. I hate fighting them, it’s always a boring waiting game. Back when medi guard was a really big thing I hated fighting them but I wasn’t calling for nerfs.

> What’s bad is that these people are probably the majority and speak the loudest and that’s who Anet will listen to.

 

Sometimes not enjoying fighting a certain build/class is justified though, because it can sometimes stem from poor mechanics that _should _be changed. This can be stuff like putting out lots of pressure while also having huge self sustain, stealth mechanic in its entirety in GW2 and other stuff.