why are PVE infusions +4?

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > > > @"Yamazuki.6073" said:

> > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > > > > > > @"Yamazuki.6073" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > I suspect the majority of players are PvE therefore PvE doesn’t need special rewards or inducements to get people to try it out. It’s PvP and WvW that has a smaller population and has to get people to give it a try. I think that’s why sPvP and WvW has reward tracks, Legendary backpacks and the +1 stat on infusions.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You don't want to ever force pve players to play pvp content. All it does is lower the quality of the pvp, which only hurts those genuinely interested in actual pvping.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Induce: succeed in persuading or influencing (someone) to do something.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That’s not forcing. That’s giving people who otherwise wouldn’t give that game mode a whirl a reason to try to see if they like it.

> > > > >

> > > > > There's a difference between a given activity being the best method of obtaining something, and an activity being the only way of getting something. One gives you the option of doing what you want and the other _requires_ you to do something. I'll always be against the idea of locking things to certain types of content, especially if it is pvp/wvw, people who do those for rewards generally are very quick to give up and ruin the experience for others. If most of the player base only wants to pve, you don't solve the issue by putting rewards behind wvw/pvp, you simply make them actually enjoyable to play for more people.

> > > >

> > > > Please note that, at least in this case, the desired item can be earned by playing any content in the game. Its just faster in WvW.

> > >

> > > VERY slowly. I would have to have, what, 40,000 AP to get the number of infusions I needed. That is not a realistic way to get your infusions.

> > >

> >

> > 1) They go on ascended trinkets. You can switch them between your chars. That’s what I do.

> > 2) If you want them faster do fractals.

> >

>

> 1) Yes, I know what infusions do. Why do you think I am trying to buy them? Given the number of stat combos it is likely the infusions I want will not be available on someone else without degrading the stats on the item they are on. Plus it means doing a gear change dance every time I change characters, which I do pretty often.

>

> 2) As I keep explaining fractals are NOT open-world PVE. I am not sure why so many people are caught up on being a language lawyer on that point.

 

The game isn’t going to hand them out for general PvE because that tiny +1 stat is unneeded for general PvE. Therefore it’s only going to be an inducement to get people to try WvW and/or fractals. If you _want_ that unneeded, tiny +1 stat then you should either do the content that gives directly or get it slower by doing dailies that give you the currency. It’s really not that hard to get badges from doing the dailies and getting AP.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Menadena.7482" said:

> Maybe non-PVE players do not understand? Fractals are technically PVE but they are NOT NOT NOT open-world PVE. When people say PVE they do not include dungeons and fractals. Just like when they say PVP they do not include WVW (which is also players fighting players).

 

Yes when people say pve they mean both instanced pve and open world pve its the same thing both players against enviorment.

Same as you have spvp and wvwvw both are pvp.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > > I'm pretty sure fractals has +5 stat infusions, that's PvE. Alternatively some open world events have a chance to give you items which can be turned into +5 stat infusions, the droprate is abysmal tho.

> > >

> > > Not quite what I had in mind for pve. Fractals are entirely different that open world pve, more a sub-category of dungeons.

> >

> > Game has 3 modes: PvE, PvP and WvW. You have your infusion in fractals for PvE

>

> Fractals are not open world PVE. As I said before they are closer to dungeons. That content does not appeal to all PVE players.

 

Open world and instances are all part of single game mode, which is PvE.

[Haleydawn.3764]

What is the point of min/maxing stats just for OWPvE? That doesn’t make sense to me.

[Menadena.7482]

> @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > > > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > > > > @"Yamazuki.6073" said:

> > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Yamazuki.6073" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > I suspect the majority of players are PvE therefore PvE doesn’t need special rewards or inducements to get people to try it out. It’s PvP and WvW that has a smaller population and has to get people to give it a try. I think that’s why sPvP and WvW has reward tracks, Legendary backpacks and the +1 stat on infusions.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > You don't want to ever force pve players to play pvp content. All it does is lower the quality of the pvp, which only hurts those genuinely interested in actual pvping.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Induce: succeed in persuading or influencing (someone) to do something.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That’s not forcing. That’s giving people who otherwise wouldn’t give that game mode a whirl a reason to try to see if they like it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > There's a difference between a given activity being the best method of obtaining something, and an activity being the only way of getting something. One gives you the option of doing what you want and the other _requires_ you to do something. I'll always be against the idea of locking things to certain types of content, especially if it is pvp/wvw, people who do those for rewards generally are very quick to give up and ruin the experience for others. If most of the player base only wants to pve, you don't solve the issue by putting rewards behind wvw/pvp, you simply make them actually enjoyable to play for more people.

> > > > >

> > > > > Please note that, at least in this case, the desired item can be earned by playing any content in the game. Its just faster in WvW.

> > > >

> > > > VERY slowly. I would have to have, what, 40,000 AP to get the number of infusions I needed. That is not a realistic way to get your infusions.

> > > >

> > >

> > > 1) They go on ascended trinkets. You can switch them between your chars. That’s what I do.

> > > 2) If you want them faster do fractals.

> > >

> >

> > 1) Yes, I know what infusions do. Why do you think I am trying to buy them? Given the number of stat combos it is likely the infusions I want will not be available on someone else without degrading the stats on the item they are on. Plus it means doing a gear change dance every time I change characters, which I do pretty often.

> >

> > 2) As I keep explaining fractals are NOT open-world PVE. I am not sure why so many people are caught up on being a language lawyer on that point.

>

> The game isn’t going to hand them out for general PvE because that tiny +1 stat is unneeded for general PvE. Therefore it’s only going to be an inducement to get people to try WvW and/or fractals. If you _want_ that unneeded, tiny +1 stat then you should either do the content that gives directly or get it slower by doing dailies that give you the currency. It’s really not that hard to get badges from doing the dailies and getting AP.

 

Umm, that +1 is 20% of the WVW infusion. Plus PVE does not get the bonus. When using words like "tiny" it helps to look at the relative scale.

 

You are right that it is not a HUGE problem. Unless you are always minmaxing most people have quite a few points allocated to the 'wrong' stat anyways rather than increasing the one they need. This is not about that though, I am just asking why there is a difference. It is as if one coffee shop in your town served a slightly smaller small for the same price as everyone else, it is not the end of the world (it may taste better) but it is curious.

[Menadena.7482]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > Maybe non-PVE players do not understand? Fractals are technically PVE but they are NOT NOT NOT open-world PVE. When people say PVE they do not include dungeons and fractals. Just like when they say PVP they do not include WVW (which is also players fighting players).

>

> Yes when people say pve they mean both instanced pve and open world pve its the same thing both players against enviorment.

> Same as you have spvp and wvwvw both are pvp.

 

Thumbs down. YOU might use those terms that way but most PVE people I know think of fractals and dungeons as something other than PVE.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

> @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > > > > > @"Yamazuki.6073" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Yamazuki.6073" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:

> > > > > > > > > > I suspect the majority of players are PvE therefore PvE doesn’t need special rewards or inducements to get people to try it out. It’s PvP and WvW that has a smaller population and has to get people to give it a try. I think that’s why sPvP and WvW has reward tracks, Legendary backpacks and the +1 stat on infusions.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > You don't want to ever force pve players to play pvp content. All it does is lower the quality of the pvp, which only hurts those genuinely interested in actual pvping.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Induce: succeed in persuading or influencing (someone) to do something.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > That’s not forcing. That’s giving people who otherwise wouldn’t give that game mode a whirl a reason to try to see if they like it.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > There's a difference between a given activity being the best method of obtaining something, and an activity being the only way of getting something. One gives you the option of doing what you want and the other _requires_ you to do something. I'll always be against the idea of locking things to certain types of content, especially if it is pvp/wvw, people who do those for rewards generally are very quick to give up and ruin the experience for others. If most of the player base only wants to pve, you don't solve the issue by putting rewards behind wvw/pvp, you simply make them actually enjoyable to play for more people.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Please note that, at least in this case, the desired item can be earned by playing any content in the game. Its just faster in WvW.

> > > > >

> > > > > VERY slowly. I would have to have, what, 40,000 AP to get the number of infusions I needed. That is not a realistic way to get your infusions.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1) They go on ascended trinkets. You can switch them between your chars. That’s what I do.

> > > > 2) If you want them faster do fractals.

> > > >

> > >

> > > 1) Yes, I know what infusions do. Why do you think I am trying to buy them? Given the number of stat combos it is likely the infusions I want will not be available on someone else without degrading the stats on the item they are on. Plus it means doing a gear change dance every time I change characters, which I do pretty often.

> > >

> > > 2) As I keep explaining fractals are NOT open-world PVE. I am not sure why so many people are caught up on being a language lawyer on that point.

> >

> > The game isn’t going to hand them out for general PvE because that tiny +1 stat is unneeded for general PvE. Therefore it’s only going to be an inducement to get people to try WvW and/or fractals. If you _want_ that unneeded, tiny +1 stat then you should either do the content that gives directly or get it slower by doing dailies that give you the currency. It’s really not that hard to get badges from doing the dailies and getting AP.

>

> Umm, that +1 is 20% of the WVW infusion. Plus PVE does not get the bonus. When using words like "tiny" it helps to look at the relative scale.

>

> You are right that it is not a HUGE problem. Unless you are always minmaxing most people have quite a few points allocated to the 'wrong' stat anyways rather than increasing the one they need. This is not about that though, I am just asking why there is a difference. It is as if one coffee shop in your town served a slightly smaller small for the same price as everyone else, it is not the end of the world (it may taste better) but it is curious.

 

You weren’t asking about the bonus. You were only asking about the +1 and wanting that available from doing general PvE. As too why there is a difference, the game needs rewards for doing specific content as well as carrots to get people to go outside of their comfort zone. However, you don’t need to convince us, it’s ANet you need to convince. Perhaps you should formulate an argument to explain to ANet as to why they should remove that carrot from WvW and put it in general PvE where it’s not needed, and how it would help the game.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > Maybe non-PVE players do not understand? Fractals are technically PVE but they are NOT NOT NOT open-world PVE. When people say PVE they do not include dungeons and fractals. Just like when they say PVP they do not include WVW (which is also players fighting players).

> >

> > Yes when people say pve they mean both instanced pve and open world pve its the same thing both players against enviorment.

> > Same as you have spvp and wvwvw both are pvp.

>

> Thumbs down. YOU might use those terms that way but most PVE people I know think of fractals and dungeons as something other than PVE

 

I'm pretty sure Anet has their view on content split and they don't care about you or your friends.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > Maybe non-PVE players do not understand? Fractals are technically PVE but they are NOT NOT NOT open-world PVE. When people say PVE they do not include dungeons and fractals. Just like when they say PVP they do not include WVW (which is also players fighting players).

> >

> > Yes when people say pve they mean both instanced pve and open world pve its the same thing both players against enviorment.

> > Same as you have spvp and wvwvw both are pvp.

>

> Thumbs down. YOU might use those terms that way but most PVE people I know think of fractals and dungeons as something other than PVE.

 

And most people I know realize that fractals and dungeons are, in fact, PvE.

[Sojourner.4621]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > > Maybe non-PVE players do not understand? Fractals are technically PVE but they are NOT NOT NOT open-world PVE. When people say PVE they do not include dungeons and fractals. Just like when they say PVP they do not include WVW (which is also players fighting players).

> > >

> > > Yes when people say pve they mean both instanced pve and open world pve its the same thing both players against enviorment.

> > > Same as you have spvp and wvwvw both are pvp.

> >

> > Thumbs down. YOU might use those terms that way but most PVE people I know think of fractals and dungeons as something other than PVE.

>

> And most people I know realize that fractals and dungeons are, in fact, PvE.

 

Anecdotal evidence and confirmation bias. To both people. There are of course going to be people on both sides of the coin, and people will mostly group up with other people like themselves. That's normal. Neither represents a proper majority. As far as the OP goes, there are in fact +5 stat infusions available through general pve that are NOT locked behind fractals. They are drops. You have to invest a ton of time or gold in to them. They still exist. There are also +5 available through a pve mode that maybe the OP themselves does not play but that plenty of people do and still consider to be pve. For people who ONLY play WvW there are no other options available. This is it. Infusions don't have a .001% drop from players, and they can't play "High tier pvp" to get it. They have a single method of gaining stat infusions, so that method is automatically +1 stat more than the easiest way of getting stats on pve. ANet has decided +5 stats should be a reward for more involved gameplay. The extra badges of honor requirement demonstrates this point... you NEED to do something more than just "show up" to get the extra +1 stat. It's not like wvw is being rewarded something for nothing.

[Menadena.7482]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > > Maybe non-PVE players do not understand? Fractals are technically PVE but they are NOT NOT NOT open-world PVE. When people say PVE they do not include dungeons and fractals. Just like when they say PVP they do not include WVW (which is also players fighting players).

> > >

> > > Yes when people say pve they mean both instanced pve and open world pve its the same thing both players against enviorment.

> > > Same as you have spvp and wvwvw both are pvp.

> >

> > Thumbs down. YOU might use those terms that way but most PVE people I know think of fractals and dungeons as something other than PVE.

>

> And most people I know realize that fractals and dungeons are, in fact, PvE.

 

They are both facing an AI but I obviously meant open world PVE. It is like arguing PVP and WVW are the same when it is pretty kittening obvious what someone meant. If they are the same then I would have been asking why some PVE vendors sold different stats than other PVE vendors, right?

[Menadena.7482]

> @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > @"Ashen.2907" said:

> > > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > > > @"Menadena.7482" said:

> > > > > Maybe non-PVE players do not understand? Fractals are technically PVE but they are NOT NOT NOT open-world PVE. When people say PVE they do not include dungeons and fractals. Just like when they say PVP they do not include WVW (which is also players fighting players).

> > > >

> > > > Yes when people say pve they mean both instanced pve and open world pve its the same thing both players against enviorment.

> > > > Same as you have spvp and wvwvw both are pvp.

> > >

> > > Thumbs down. YOU might use those terms that way but most PVE people I know think of fractals and dungeons as something other than PVE.

> >

> > And most people I know realize that fractals and dungeons are, in fact, PvE.

>

> Anecdotal evidence and confirmation bias. To both people. There are of course going to be people on both sides of the coin, and people will mostly group up with other people like themselves. That's normal. Neither represents a proper majority. As far as the OP goes, there are in fact +5 stat infusions available through general pve that are NOT locked behind fractals. They are drops. You have to invest a ton of time or gold in to them. They still exist. There are also +5 available through a pve mode that maybe the OP themselves does not play but that plenty of people do and still consider to be pve. For people who ONLY play WvW there are no other options available. This is it. Infusions don't have a .001% drop from players, and they can't play "High tier pvp" to get it. They have a single method of gaining stat infusions, so that method is automatically +1 stat more than the easiest way of getting stats on pve. ANet has decided +5 stats should be a reward for more involved gameplay. The extra badges of honor requirement demonstrates this point... you NEED to do something more than just "show up" to get the extra +1 stat. It's not like wvw is being rewarded something for nothing.

 

Thanks, finally someone who actually answered the question rather than play a language lawyer. It does seem strange though, the stat bump from infusions is so miniscule it sticks out like a sore thumb that there is a difference.

[MachineManXX.9746]

> @"Menadena.7482" said:

> Maybe non-PVE players do not understand? Fractals are technically PVE but they are NOT NOT NOT open-world PVE. When people say PVE they do not include dungeons and fractals. Just like when they say PVP they do not include WVW (which is also players fighting players).

 

Open world PvE is balanced for NO infusions required. The fact that you can get +4 is already a bonus. Now, if you choose to do harder content where the infusions actually matter, then they are available in those modes. Wanting something changed just for the sake of change is rather selfish and a waste of time.

[Tails.9372]

What are you guys even talking about? Every stat infusion available through OW PvM is +5. The +4 ones from the laurel vendor are universal ones, the is no such thing as "game mode X gets better infusions because it's more demanding" lol.