Thief worries me. It will dominate hard.

[ArthurDent.9538]

> @"tartarus.1082" said:

> > @"Mr Godlike.6098" said:

> > S/D exists because d/p couldn't +1 and kill firebrand...but firebrand is constantly nerfed and who knows how removal of magi will effect this spec. If firebrand is dead in meta then d/p is back in meta. Although it would be still seen sometimes - out of every F2P core builds S/D is still most viable.

> >

> > With so big changes incoming in class balance I don't know if we can say now that something should be nerfed more.

>

>

> Honestly with the pi and dagger damage nerf I’m not sure s/d will be swapped out for d/p

 

On the other hand with the damage buff shadow shot will be closing in on backstab damage as it already hits really hard for its minuscule cast time and great utility. Regardless thief is getting off really soft compared to the other meta classes and from the preview it will just be a question of whether sd or dp will be more op.

[tartarus.1082]

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > @"tartarus.1082" said:

> > > @"Mr Godlike.6098" said:

> > > S/D exists because d/p couldn't +1 and kill firebrand...but firebrand is constantly nerfed and who knows how removal of magi will effect this spec. If firebrand is dead in meta then d/p is back in meta. Although it would be still seen sometimes - out of every F2P core builds S/D is still most viable.

> > >

> > > With so big changes incoming in class balance I don't know if we can say now that something should be nerfed more.

> >

> >

> > Honestly with the pi and dagger damage nerf I’m not sure s/d will be swapped out for d/p

>

> On the other hand with the damage buff shadow shot will be closing in on backstab damage as it already hits really hard for its minuscule cast time and great utility. Regardless thief is getting off really soft compared to the other meta classes and from the preview it will just be a question of whether sd or dp will be more op.

 

True I forgot about shadowshot plus heart seeker got bumped up as well

[Crab Fear.1624]

I'm glad it will dominate, obviously. But, also maybe I can stop seeing "two thieves? gg".

[Elxdark.9702]

> @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > @"Velimere.7685" said:

> > > @"BeLZedaR.4790" said:

> > > This attack can hit for 1-2k + 4-6k. That’s absurd coupled with steal (which you got 2 of, but it makes acro attractive so it should stay).

> >

> > As a Thief main, I'd like to inform you that Larcenous Strike can crit for over 7k using the meta build on targets that don't have any extra toughness.

>

> > I just want them to bring down S/D a notch so I can have a reason to actually play D/P again.

> >

>

> ? We had years of d/p dominance, a few months of s/d and it's time to go back??? Tone it down, but please no more free stealth spam 311111 build for a little longer..

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Legatus.3608]

> @"BeLZedaR.4790" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > The build isn't top tier meta because it's an amazing op build, it was meta because it had a couple tools to counter bunker meta.

> >

> > Bunker meta is obviously dead with these changes so even if they didn't nerf thief at all sd thief would still be gone, but it still did get nerfs

> >

> > i get that you don't like thief but the build isn't op and it's not going to be op after the meta shifts away from it and it receives nerfs on top of that.

> >

> > Btw, are you aware you can actually avoid damage from sd 3 by simply walking sideways? I can't think of another skill that behaves this way in all of gw2 where simply WALKING (not dodging) to the side avoids the hit.

> >

> > No, sd is not going to dominate anything after the meta, I'm surprised there is enough lack of knowledge that people even consider sd meta at all

>

> Are you bronze?

 

Plat every season I've played in. Care to make any actual point?

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > The build isn't top tier meta because it's an amazing op build, it was meta because it had a couple tools to counter bunker meta.

> >

> > Bunker meta is obviously dead with these changes so even if they didn't nerf thief at all sd thief would still be gone, but it still did get nerfs

> >

> > i get that you don't like thief but the build isn't op and it's not going to be op after the meta shifts away from it and it receives nerfs on top of that.

> >

> > Btw, are you aware you can actually avoid damage from sd 3 by simply walking sideways? I can't think of another skill that behaves this way in all of gw2 where simply WALKING (not dodging) to the side avoids the hit.

> >

> > No, sd is not going to dominate anything after the meta, I'm surprised there is enough lack of knowledge that people even consider sd meta at all

>

> I assume you mean LS and not FS? Then Yeah LS has a habit of missing more then it should. I even panned my camera down and missed a golem trainer with LS while I was mucking about in PvP lobby

 

I mean FS. I've had other sd thieves attacking me with fs and i just walk sideways and their melee aim assist whiffs it

[Kicast.1459]

thief offers no counter... biggest offender of balance

[Velimere.7685]

> @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> ? We had years of d/p dominance, a few months of s/d and it's time to go back??? Tone it down, but please no more free stealth spam 311111 build for a little longer..

 

S/D is just really low skill-cap compared to D/P in my opinion. The only fun in it is how OP it is.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

> @"Velimere.7685" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > ? We had years of d/p dominance, a few months of s/d and it's time to go back??? Tone it down, but please no more free stealth spam 311111 build for a little longer..

>

> S/D is just really low skill-cap compared to D/P in my opinion. The only fun in it is how OP it is.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree...no skill required stealth shadowshot spam cheese should stay where it's at imo

 

Even in this meta d/p has a slight edge imo over s/d, s/d is just used to counter boon spam in team fights

[Jinks.2057]

> @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> Am I the only one that thinks that making both flanking and larcenous unblockable was a bad idea? Obviously I'm biased as a guardian player but a well-played s/d thief literally hardcounters the entire guardian class no matter how skilled the player.

>

> Anyway, the combination of damage, unblockability, spammability, sustain and mobility of s/d thief leads me to think that something should be nerfed. Imo, since d/p has an established role as burst, I think s/d should be pushed more towards a dps/bruiser role rather than burst and that the damage of larcenous should be the focus of balancing rather than nerfing sustain of s/d thief.

>

> Here are some suggestions and why:

>

> * Make Larcenous blockable: Would stop s/d thief from hardcountering the entire guardian class. A thief could still wait out a block, use basi, or auto attack (to remove aegis) to work around larcenous being blockable.

> * Reduce the amount of time larcenous strike is available to be used after flanking strike: This could be done in tandem with another nerf or buff.

> * Add a cd to larcenous: a short cd would stop the spammability and force a s/d thief to rely on auto attack a bit more.

> * An alternative to the above - increase initiative cost of larcenous strike by 1 or 2: would stop spam a bit.

> * Reduce the damage on larcenous, increase damage on flanking: This is a rather simple fix that would maintain some dps and decrease burst.

 

Funny to hear a guardian lobby for thief changes because finally after 5 years of hard countering them you actually have to out play a thief now.

 

I didn't see any "guardian mains" making posts to have themselves nerfed for thieves.

 

Poetic justice is all this is

[BeLZedaR.4790]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > @"BeLZedaR.4790" said:

> > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > The build isn't top tier meta because it's an amazing op build, it was meta because it had a couple tools to counter bunker meta.

> > >

> > > Bunker meta is obviously dead with these changes so even if they didn't nerf thief at all sd thief would still be gone, but it still did get nerfs

> > >

> > > i get that you don't like thief but the build isn't op and it's not going to be op after the meta shifts away from it and it receives nerfs on top of that.

> > >

> > > Btw, are you aware you can actually avoid damage from sd 3 by simply walking sideways? I can't think of another skill that behaves this way in all of gw2 where simply WALKING (not dodging) to the side avoids the hit.

> > >

> > > No, sd is not going to dominate anything after the meta, I'm surprised there is enough lack of knowledge that people even consider sd meta at all

> >

> > Are you bronze?

>

> Plat every season I've played in. Care to make any actual point?

 

I just explained in my post that a well played s/d beats in 1v1 anything that isn’t druid or engie, with scourge counts as bad because he’s gonna have the cap for quite long so it’s not worth. With druid and engi nerfed, and rune of surging which made the matchup more manageable for rev/sb gone, what exactly does thief lose to? Add to that highest mobility in the game and best +1 unblockable spike?

Idk if you maybe play NA where yall do wierd shit but EU is flooded with mostly s/d.

Right now its meta af but still not god tier, but it will be because it got soft nerfs while all else is nerfed hard.

 

[BlackBeard.2873]

> @"Kicast.1459" said:

> thief offers no counter... biggest offender of balance

 

Thief has always been an issue due to a high concentration of imbalanced mechanics that are impossible to counterplay. Instant ports that ignore LOS, instant damage, spammable stealth (with revealed being very rare still), high amount of invuln frames (dodges mostly) while doing high damage. Every class has a few of these poor mechanics, but thief is a poor design because it offers too many of these mechanics to create builds that aren't very fun to fight because the opponent has no good ways to punish (counterplay) a thief's actions.

 

The only time thief was EVER balanced was a short time pre-HoT, where they only had enough power to get kills in intelligent +1's, but had unmatched mobility. Nowadays, other classes have about as much mobility, but thief damage is back to the level where it can 1v1 most specs, making it an apex predator once again.

 

Thief will never be balanced until they change some of the mechanics to either lower the reward or increase the risk that thieves must expose themselves to for their actions.

 

Also, making flanking strike unblockable was a terrible idea, as having to land that to get to the powerful LS was actual counterplay. If they removed this unblockable, made it so sword 2 required LOS to work, and addressed the free extra steal (overloaded instant-cast skill) then sword thief would be a much more balanced spec.

[Arlowslol.1974]

> @"BlackBeard.2873" said:

> > @"Kicast.1459" said:

> > thief offers no counter... biggest offender of balance

>

> Thief has always been an issue due to a high concentration of imbalanced mechanics that are impossible to counterplay. Instant ports that ignore LOS, instant damage, spammable stealth (with revealed being very rare still), high amount of invuln frames (dodges mostly) while doing high damage. Every class has a few of these poor mechanics, but thief is a poor design because it offers too many of these mechanics to create builds that aren't very fun to fight because the opponent has no good ways to punish (counterplay) a thief's actions.

>

> The only time thief was EVER balanced was a short time pre-HoT, where they only had enough power to get kills in intelligent +1's, but had unmatched mobility. Nowadays, other classes have about as much mobility, but thief damage is back to the level where it can 1v1 most specs, making it an apex predator once again.

>

> Thief will never be balanced until they change some of the mechanics to either lower the reward or increase the risk that thieves must expose themselves to for their actions.

>

> Also, making flanking strike unblockable was a terrible idea, as having to land that to get to the powerful LS was actual counterplay. If they removed this unblockable, made it so sword 2 required LOS to work, and addressed the free extra steal (overloaded instant-cast skill) then sword thief would be a much more balanced spec.

 

LOL, try to play the game first.

 

I doubt you havent play PVP b4

[Legatus.3608]

> @"BeLZedaR.4790" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"BeLZedaR.4790" said:

> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > The build isn't top tier meta because it's an amazing op build, it was meta because it had a couple tools to counter bunker meta.

> > > >

> > > > Bunker meta is obviously dead with these changes so even if they didn't nerf thief at all sd thief would still be gone, but it still did get nerfs

> > > >

> > > > i get that you don't like thief but the build isn't op and it's not going to be op after the meta shifts away from it and it receives nerfs on top of that.

> > > >

> > > > Btw, are you aware you can actually avoid damage from sd 3 by simply walking sideways? I can't think of another skill that behaves this way in all of gw2 where simply WALKING (not dodging) to the side avoids the hit.

> > > >

> > > > No, sd is not going to dominate anything after the meta, I'm surprised there is enough lack of knowledge that people even consider sd meta at all

> > >

> > > Are you bronze?

> >

> > Plat every season I've played in. Care to make any actual point?

>

> I just explained in my post that a well played s/d beats in 1v1 anything that isn’t druid or engie, with scourge counts as bad because he’s gonna have the cap for quite long so it’s not worth. With druid and engi nerfed, and rune of surging which made the matchup more manageable for rev/sb gone, what exactly does thief lose to? Add to that highest mobility in the game and best +1 unblockable spike?

> Idk if you maybe play NA where yall do wierd kitten but EU is flooded with mostly s/d.

> Right now its meta af but still not god tier, but it will be because it got soft nerfs while all else is nerfed hard.

>

 

So I guess in eu players haven't learned how to walk sideways? Such skill required to nullify the spec

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

None of my flanking strikes have missed like your describe. They are either dodged or they "RAN" out of range when I use it at it's peak.

[Miles Smiles.8951]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > @"BeLZedaR.4790" said:

> > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > @"BeLZedaR.4790" said:

> > > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > The build isn't top tier meta because it's an amazing op build, it was meta because it had a couple tools to counter bunker meta.

> > > > >

> > > > > Bunker meta is obviously dead with these changes so even if they didn't nerf thief at all sd thief would still be gone, but it still did get nerfs

> > > > >

> > > > > i get that you don't like thief but the build isn't op and it's not going to be op after the meta shifts away from it and it receives nerfs on top of that.

> > > > >

> > > > > Btw, are you aware you can actually avoid damage from sd 3 by simply walking sideways? I can't think of another skill that behaves this way in all of gw2 where simply WALKING (not dodging) to the side avoids the hit.

> > > > >

> > > > > No, sd is not going to dominate anything after the meta, I'm surprised there is enough lack of knowledge that people even consider sd meta at all

> > > >

> > > > Are you bronze?

> > >

> > > Plat every season I've played in. Care to make any actual point?

> >

> > I just explained in my post that a well played s/d beats in 1v1 anything that isn’t druid or engie, with scourge counts as bad because he’s gonna have the cap for quite long so it’s not worth. With druid and engi nerfed, and rune of surging which made the matchup more manageable for rev/sb gone, what exactly does thief lose to? Add to that highest mobility in the game and best +1 unblockable spike?

> > Idk if you maybe play NA where yall do wierd kitten but EU is flooded with mostly s/d.

> > Right now its meta af but still not god tier, but it will be because it got soft nerfs while all else is nerfed hard.

> >

>

> So I guess in eu players haven't learned how to walk sideways? Such skill required to nullify the spec

 

side walking sword 3 + steal (smth every single thief from low to high tier does these days)? sounds ez

[Legatus.3608]

Blowing steal on something like sword 3? IDK man, if that's what you're whining about I'm not sure thief is the problem

[Arcaedus.7290]

> @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> > Am I the only one that thinks that making both flanking and larcenous unblockable was a bad idea? Obviously I'm biased as a guardian player but a well-played s/d thief literally hardcounters the entire guardian class no matter how skilled the player.

> >

> > Anyway, the combination of damage, unblockability, spammability, sustain and mobility of s/d thief leads me to think that something should be nerfed. Imo, since d/p has an established role as burst, I think s/d should be pushed more towards a dps/bruiser role rather than burst and that the damage of larcenous should be the focus of balancing rather than nerfing sustain of s/d thief.

> >

> > Here are some suggestions and why:

> >

> > * Make Larcenous blockable: Would stop s/d thief from hardcountering the entire guardian class. A thief could still wait out a block, use basi, or auto attack (to remove aegis) to work around larcenous being blockable.

> > * Reduce the amount of time larcenous strike is available to be used after flanking strike: This could be done in tandem with another nerf or buff.

> > * Add a cd to larcenous: a short cd would stop the spammability and force a s/d thief to rely on auto attack a bit more.

> > * An alternative to the above - increase initiative cost of larcenous strike by 1 or 2: would stop spam a bit.

> > * Reduce the damage on larcenous, increase damage on flanking: This is a rather simple fix that would maintain some dps and decrease burst.

>

> Funny to hear a guardian lobby for thief changes because finally after 5 years of hard countering them you actually have to out play a thief now.

>

> I didn't see any "guardian mains" making posts to have themselves nerfed for thieves.

>

> Poetic justice is all this is

 

Generally classes don't hardcounter each other. Builds hardcounter other builds.

 

It has been the case for the past few years that the meta damage-based guardian build was a fairly hard counter or the meta thief build but I assure you that condi thief was most definitely not hard-countered by guardian for the past 5 years. It still isn't. Additionally, ever heard of Min Scherzo? He's living proof that with just a bit of modification, the meta DD build can fight on even terms against any meta variant of guardian in a 1v1.

 

Anyway, my point is that guard never hardcountered thief, just the main guard build has always hard countered the main thief build. On the other hand, since the sword buffs, S/D thief played well (someone of ElxDark's level) completely hard-counters any possible build a guardian can use (bunker dies to it fairly quickly, radiant hammer doesn't have the sustain or mobility to deal with it, medi-trapper fails pretty miserably and any burn-guard build performs far worse than the power ones).

 

This might be okay if s/d thief only hard-countered guard builds, but as it turns out they're pretty damn effective against almost everything else out there as well (whereas historically, medi-guard or medi-trapper had plenty of soft counters). While it's true that this is mostly a 1v1 balancing issue, 1v1 balance is more important than you think since there are many scenarios where you have an "effectively 1v1" matchup.

[Turk.5460]

> @"Exciton.8942" said:

> The sword 3 boon steal behavior should probably get normalized, like bountiful theft.

>

> Currently, you steal all stacks of boon and whole duration with sword 3. With bountiful theft, you only get 1 stack with a set duration. I think they really should make sword 3 behave the same as bountiful theft.

>

> As for S/D thief in general, I guess it depends on how D/P becomes after the update. People will go D/P if they can kill things easily and as you said, D/P probably beats S/D.

 

The only reason Bountiful Theft does not steal the whole stack is because it shares the boons with up to 5 allies. The full-stack boon steal absolutely should remain for a self-only steal. What's next? Boon corrupt now only corrupts 1 stack at a time?

[ImperialWL.7138]

At this point in time so much has been said about thief/Mesmer remaining broken that if nothing gets done ..... Well, can't say we didn't try.

[Jinks.2057]

> @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> > @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > > @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> > > Am I the only one that thinks that making both flanking and larcenous unblockable was a bad idea? Obviously I'm biased as a guardian player but a well-played s/d thief literally hardcounters the entire guardian class no matter how skilled the player.

> > >

> > > Anyway, the combination of damage, unblockability, spammability, sustain and mobility of s/d thief leads me to think that something should be nerfed. Imo, since d/p has an established role as burst, I think s/d should be pushed more towards a dps/bruiser role rather than burst and that the damage of larcenous should be the focus of balancing rather than nerfing sustain of s/d thief.

> > >

> > > Here are some suggestions and why:

> > >

> > > * Make Larcenous blockable: Would stop s/d thief from hardcountering the entire guardian class. A thief could still wait out a block, use basi, or auto attack (to remove aegis) to work around larcenous being blockable.

> > > * Reduce the amount of time larcenous strike is available to be used after flanking strike: This could be done in tandem with another nerf or buff.

> > > * Add a cd to larcenous: a short cd would stop the spammability and force a s/d thief to rely on auto attack a bit more.

> > > * An alternative to the above - increase initiative cost of larcenous strike by 1 or 2: would stop spam a bit.

> > > * Reduce the damage on larcenous, increase damage on flanking: This is a rather simple fix that would maintain some dps and decrease burst.

> >

> > Funny to hear a guardian lobby for thief changes because finally after 5 years of hard countering them you actually have to out play a thief now.

> >

> > I didn't see any "guardian mains" making posts to have themselves nerfed for thieves.

> >

> > Poetic justice is all this is

>

 

> Anyway, my point is that guard never hardcountered thief

 

I can't take you seriously after this post after reading you down play the longest standing hard counter in the game.

 

You are losing due to your own skill level not being better than the thief you are fighting. Not b/c you are being hard countered

[Aza.2105]

> @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> > > @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > > > @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> > > > Am I the only one that thinks that making both flanking and larcenous unblockable was a bad idea? Obviously I'm biased as a guardian player but a well-played s/d thief literally hardcounters the entire guardian class no matter how skilled the player.

> > > >

> > > > Anyway, the combination of damage, unblockability, spammability, sustain and mobility of s/d thief leads me to think that something should be nerfed. Imo, since d/p has an established role as burst, I think s/d should be pushed more towards a dps/bruiser role rather than burst and that the damage of larcenous should be the focus of balancing rather than nerfing sustain of s/d thief.

> > > >

> > > > Here are some suggestions and why:

> > > >

> > > > * Make Larcenous blockable: Would stop s/d thief from hardcountering the entire guardian class. A thief could still wait out a block, use basi, or auto attack (to remove aegis) to work around larcenous being blockable.

> > > > * Reduce the amount of time larcenous strike is available to be used after flanking strike: This could be done in tandem with another nerf or buff.

> > > > * Add a cd to larcenous: a short cd would stop the spammability and force a s/d thief to rely on auto attack a bit more.

> > > > * An alternative to the above - increase initiative cost of larcenous strike by 1 or 2: would stop spam a bit.

> > > > * Reduce the damage on larcenous, increase damage on flanking: This is a rather simple fix that would maintain some dps and decrease burst.

> > >

> > > Funny to hear a guardian lobby for thief changes because finally after 5 years of hard countering them you actually have to out play a thief now.

> > >

> > > I didn't see any "guardian mains" making posts to have themselves nerfed for thieves.

> > >

> > > Poetic justice is all this is

> >

>

> > Anyway, my point is that guard never hardcountered thief

>

> I can't take you seriously after this post after reading you down play the longest standing hard counter in the game.

>

> You are losing due to your own skill level not being better than the thief you are fighting. Not b/c you are being hard countered

 

Actually he is correct.

[Legatus.3608]

> @"ImperialWL.7138" said:

> At this point in time so much has been said about thief/Mesmer remaining broken that if nothing gets done ..... Well, can't say we didn't try.

 

LOL, but 90% of the people whining about thief are whining about things they are clueless about. Like REALLY OBVIOUSLY.

 

People whining ALL OVER about deadeye... a completely bad trait line and weapon set that any person in top tier play will tell you does NOT need a nerf of any kind.

 

A few random others whining about SD, but they are whining about its "burst potential" on SD, which is laughably stupid comparably, and nobody whining about "it +1s and decaps too well" which is what they'd being saying if they actually had a clue about the class. If they did nerf thief decap and +1 potential, the class wouldn't be good AT ANYTHING.

 

So WTF are people whining about? I've never in my entire life seen so many people whining about builds that AREN'T GOOD because they refuse to learn the pros and cons of the build.

[Jinks.2057]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> > @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > > @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> > > > @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > > > > @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> > > > > Am I the only one that thinks that making both flanking and larcenous unblockable was a bad idea? Obviously I'm biased as a guardian player but a well-played s/d thief literally hardcounters the entire guardian class no matter how skilled the player.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anyway, the combination of damage, unblockability, spammability, sustain and mobility of s/d thief leads me to think that something should be nerfed. Imo, since d/p has an established role as burst, I think s/d should be pushed more towards a dps/bruiser role rather than burst and that the damage of larcenous should be the focus of balancing rather than nerfing sustain of s/d thief.

> > > > >

> > > > > Here are some suggestions and why:

> > > > >

> > > > > * Make Larcenous blockable: Would stop s/d thief from hardcountering the entire guardian class. A thief could still wait out a block, use basi, or auto attack (to remove aegis) to work around larcenous being blockable.

> > > > > * Reduce the amount of time larcenous strike is available to be used after flanking strike: This could be done in tandem with another nerf or buff.

> > > > > * Add a cd to larcenous: a short cd would stop the spammability and force a s/d thief to rely on auto attack a bit more.

> > > > > * An alternative to the above - increase initiative cost of larcenous strike by 1 or 2: would stop spam a bit.

> > > > > * Reduce the damage on larcenous, increase damage on flanking: This is a rather simple fix that would maintain some dps and decrease burst.

> > > >

> > > > Funny to hear a guardian lobby for thief changes because finally after 5 years of hard countering them you actually have to out play a thief now.

> > > >

> > > > I didn't see any "guardian mains" making posts to have themselves nerfed for thieves.

> > > >

> > > > Poetic justice is all this is

> > >

> >

> > > Anyway, my point is that guard never hardcountered thief

> >

> > I can't take you seriously after this post after reading you down play the longest standing hard counter in the game.

> >

> > You are losing due to your own skill level not being better than the thief you are fighting. Not b/c you are being hard countered

>

> Actually he is correct.

 

He's correct in what? That bunker guardian didn't hard counter thief....it just couldn't be killed by it?

 

He killed any argument or point he could ever make on the subject with those statements

[Aza.2105]

> @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > @"Aza.2105" said:

> > > @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > > > @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > > > > > @"Arcaedus.7290" said:

> > > > > > Am I the only one that thinks that making both flanking and larcenous unblockable was a bad idea? Obviously I'm biased as a guardian player but a well-played s/d thief literally hardcounters the entire guardian class no matter how skilled the player.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Anyway, the combination of damage, unblockability, spammability, sustain and mobility of s/d thief leads me to think that something should be nerfed. Imo, since d/p has an established role as burst, I think s/d should be pushed more towards a dps/bruiser role rather than burst and that the damage of larcenous should be the focus of balancing rather than nerfing sustain of s/d thief.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Here are some suggestions and why:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > * Make Larcenous blockable: Would stop s/d thief from hardcountering the entire guardian class. A thief could still wait out a block, use basi, or auto attack (to remove aegis) to work around larcenous being blockable.

> > > > > > * Reduce the amount of time larcenous strike is available to be used after flanking strike: This could be done in tandem with another nerf or buff.

> > > > > > * Add a cd to larcenous: a short cd would stop the spammability and force a s/d thief to rely on auto attack a bit more.

> > > > > > * An alternative to the above - increase initiative cost of larcenous strike by 1 or 2: would stop spam a bit.

> > > > > > * Reduce the damage on larcenous, increase damage on flanking: This is a rather simple fix that would maintain some dps and decrease burst.

> > > > >

> > > > > Funny to hear a guardian lobby for thief changes because finally after 5 years of hard countering them you actually have to out play a thief now.

> > > > >

> > > > > I didn't see any "guardian mains" making posts to have themselves nerfed for thieves.

> > > > >

> > > > > Poetic justice is all this is

> > > >

> > >

> > > > Anyway, my point is that guard never hardcountered thief

> > >

> > > I can't take you seriously after this post after reading you down play the longest standing hard counter in the game.

> > >

> > > You are losing due to your own skill level not being better than the thief you are fighting. Not b/c you are being hard countered

> >

> > Actually he is correct.

>

> He's correct in what? That bunker guardian didn't hard counter thief....it just couldn't be killed by it?

>

> He killed any argument or point he could ever make on the subject with those statements

 

Bunker guard could never kill thief, but could just make them run away since they were wasting time. In terms of the current guardian vs thief, thief has every tool to simple dismantle guardian. Traditionally thief didn't have great access to condi removal but now that is not the case, so another one of their weaknesses was removed. With evade spam, mobility, stealth, access to condition removal and extremely high damage a thief should beat a guardian. And this is looking at it from a pure design stand point.

 

What exactly does guardian currently have to hard counter thief? It use to be block but larcenous strike alone hard counters guardian. Unblockable, high damage AND boon removal. From the current direction the game has headed, only a thief can counter a thief.