broken damage numbers

[Ragion.2831]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> I'm going to leave this here

>

 

needs its own thread tbh

[XxsdgxX.8109]

Incredibly sad to see some of these *short-sighted* people defending the bullshit Thief and Mesmer do. People will just keep leaving this game's PvP so **Good Job** :+1: , not helping ANET with the case at all.

 

Please understand that this is just not fun nor competitive, think about the whole damn picture. A game is **nothing** without an active healthy playerbase.

The PvE side (playerbase and its content) is doing amazing while the PvP "scene" is a comeplete disgrace.

[ArthurDent.9538]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> I'm going to leave this here

>

 

You had endure pain off cd, l2p dood can't help that you have super slow reactions there was a huge tell, kapa.

[Kawloon Fuathach.3807]

> @"Ragion.2831" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > I'm going to leave this here

> >

>

> needs its own thread tbh

 

I am quite proud of the damage I deal. o7 <--- Wilhelm The Pursuer

Pure glass cannon hurts.

[bLind.6278]

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > I'm going to leave this here

> >

>

> You had endure pain off cd, l2p dood can't help that you have super slow reactions there was a huge tell, kapa.

 

You predicted exactly what Jinks was going to say. Impressive.

[Razor.6392]

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > @"Blackjack.5621" said:

> > When ele and core guardian do burst people on 30 second cooldowns without extraordinary disengage ability the risk/reward may be justified,

>

> No it's not. Even then, considering the fact that GW2 effectively aims everything for you, doling out free kills to people every 30s, even if they die themselves is basically what Call of Duty does. It's just a respawn simulator. There is no skill or self-expression in any of it. The only reason that core guardian or fresh air aren't respectively meta is because their hard counters which comprise the metagame are just too invincible that they effortlessly (and often automatically) survive for protracted periods of time against all incoming effects. Core guardian and fresh air are still just as shamelessly devoid of any player skill as anything else even if they can't magically get away from combat after face-rolling on someone (with or without success).

>

 

This is one of the reasons why I've grown to hate playing FA weaver.

 

core FA took skill, scepter is not a pick up and play weapon. FA weaver is just literal faceroll. Either earthen synergy stun or gale into FIRE3F3F321312312 ARCANE BLAST

 

Really boring, and sad.

[BlackBeard.2873]

The problem with pvp, is that you CAN'T reduce the burst unless you also reduce the insanely long chain of invuln/dodge/block frames that most classes nowadays can string together.

 

Nerfing the passive ones is a start, but its not nearly enough. Many builds can chain together EASILY over 10-15s of invuln frames and are not even left completely out of gas when that is done. Burst damage is so high because otherwise there simply isn't enough window of opportunity to kill many builds.

 

It is all tied together, and this point, I am not sure that there isn't too much power-creep to overcome the problems.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> I'm going to leave this here

>

 

Looks like you are missing some traits? The build symble is red

[Crinn.7864]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > I'm going to leave this here

> >

>

> Looks like you are missing some traits? The build symble is red

 

My build is fine, idk why the hero tab is highlighted it's like that on all my characters.

[KeoLegend.5132]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > @"KeoLegend.5132" said:

> > good thing about pvp is that you can be anything.

> > so if you are getting one shotted by mês, become a mês yourself.

> >

> > I main pvp with a power shatter Chrono and sometimes a mirage insta-kill me. I tried to become one of them but i couldn't 100-0 ppl as fast, so it must take some skill involved.

> >

> > And balance is impossible because as much as we have some 100-0 builds we also have infinite sustain builds and such

>

> From what I've noticed, it's not that they're good but rather that currently, most of them are macroing because the same combo is always the best one and there's very little skill variance needed between matchups/situations.

 

well if theyr macroing then they should be banned

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @"BeLZedaR.4790" said:

> Mesmer/thief stay overpowered under the justification they require time investments to learn to extract their potential.

> I think rewarding people with god-tier classes for spending a bit of time to learn their class is a bit overkill though.

 

mesmers need just enough time to set up a macro...

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

Remove zerker amulet

[Jinks.2057]

> @"bLind.6278" said:

> > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > I'm going to leave this here

> > >

> >

> > You had endure pain off cd, l2p dood can't help that you have super slow reactions there was a huge tell, kapa.

>

> You predicted exactly what Jinks was going to say. Impressive.

 

No he had zero time to react to that burst with absolutely zero tell other than his team failing to call out the thief's location.

 

That said he was still out played by the thief. That build is hyper glass. (The Holo downed the thief easily 1v2)

 

Now most are going to rage that I said you were still outplayed by the thief. Here's why that's true:

 

1. Your passive auto proc IP was up. It was bypassed because you went from >50% to 0% in 1 hit.

2. The only reason this was possible when the Vault hit you you were at 15k hps so his timing was correct.

 

Now what we are all also not realizing is this is Zerk on Zerk crime. You put on marauder's and auto IP proc's with you living & most likely downing thief with a sneeze as evidenced by Holo dropping him with ease.

 

So in this case that is fair play since the warrior is actually playing the bruiser role with a Zerker amulet relying on his passive & active invulns, blocks, evades, and passive healing only got get outplayed by extreme damage. You want to survive that instant burst pick a different amulet

 

Forgot you were also fear'd when this all hit while you were fighting power war vs power war. If your necro called out positioning you could have been able to use the active invuln, but I still call this zero chance

[Aza.2105]

> @"Razor.6392" said:

> Is "you didn't react in time" the new meme that mesmer mains are gonna vomit now? I play at 150ms due to location, so I guess I'm fully kitten and should submit myself to the 100-0 nuke overlords?

>

> :lol:

 

Yeah gw2 breeds idiotic players who would talk about you didn't react in time. The problem with this saying is that there is latency and there is human reaction time and the fact that it comes from a invisible target who might not even be in your camera view. These same players who talk about timing would not be able to consistently react to a overhead in a fighting game, even though they are VERY slow and you can see it coming. Thing is, you can see the overhead coming, vs you can't see anything from Mesmer burst coming. And oh, failing to block the overhead doesn't delete your health in one hit. Unlike failing to dodge a invisible opponent that deletes your health in one second.

 

http://www.teyah.net/MilliaBlocker_v0.3.swf

[Falan.1839]

This is pretty much the meta now, in ATs comps like 1 Druid + 4 Oneshot or very high dps builds (GS Mes, FA Ele, Core Guard, Rev, SD Holo, possibly even Reaper or Deadeye) are already wreaking havoc and also in ranked these specs are pretty prevalent. These comps were already strong before, but overshadowed by the broken FB/Scourge combination before, and now that this is nerfed, they reign supreme. Also half of these specs basically got overlooked in the proposed balance changes, while the remaining bruisers or non oneshotty dps builds get hit badly, which will even shift the meta further towards oneshots.

[pah.4931]

> @"Falan.1839" said:

> This is pretty much the meta now, in ATs comps like 1 Druid + 4 Oneshot or very high dps builds (GS Mes, FA Ele, Core Guard, Rev, SD Holo, possibly even Reaper or Deadeye) are already wreaking havoc and also in ranked these specs are pretty prevalent. These comps were already strong before, but overshadowed by the broken FB/Scourge combination before, and now that this is nerfed, they reign supreme. Also half of these specs basically got overlooked in the proposed balance changes, while the remaining bruisers or non oneshotty dps builds get hit badly, which will even shift the meta further towards oneshots.

 

Was playing a quick unranked game this morning and the entire team was made up of these one-shot / high dps builds ... it wasn't very fun (and many of these builds aren't THAT squishy either, which makes it even more ridiculous). I really do hope they tone down damage some in the next balance patch.

 

OR, if I wish they had a time machine so they could go back in time and not make the idiotic decision to keep making conquest 5v5 maps. What a fun game this would be if they had more of a battleground system like WoW.

[Lilyanna.9361]

I love how Anet said the want active gameplay, but then they don't try to make good, active gameplay with support specs.

 

DPS WAR 2: Where in every single mode you just run damage and the thought line of: Hit it harder actually gets you somewhere. How embarrassing thought processes like: "moar damage" that would get you killed in literally any other PvP game actually works.

 

So much for strategy eh?

[Allarius.5670]

It isn't broken damage or healing that is problematic, it is anything which can be built to an extreme. This includes number of active defenses, conditions, hard cc, condition cleansing, etc.

 

Players want to be able to counter-play without resorting to heavy counter-building. Players want trade offs and windows of opportunity to punish opponents, tells they can react to, and more manageable numbers all around (defensively and offensively). Conquest is designed with this in mind: if you are countered you move elsewhere, you rotate to where you will be most effective. For some builds/professions that means constantly rotating, for others that means pushing a team fight.

 

The problem is that being countered by build doesn't feel as good as by being counted by skill. Counter-building mostly comes down to a guessing game, whereas getting outplayed opens up greater opportunity for improvement.

 

I appreciate the earlier comment that highlights the need for a main support if Scourge is present, otherwise the support is unlikely to carry its weight. Does this dynamic highlight build diversity or a critical problem that should be addressed?

 

The game is obviously incredibly difficult to balance and this is exacerbated by the sheer number of options and the customization available to players. With the greater acceptance toward skill splits maybe the amulet system should be looked at more harshly.

 

Perhaps it would be best to remove amulets altogether and balance skills and traits directly. It wouldn't remove counters, but it would tone down outliers and push everything to a more acceptable center. You'd still have customization via skill and trait selection.

[Xillllix.3485]

They need to rebalance the entire game from scratch, including all the PvE stuff as well.

[Airdive.2613]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> and the fact that it comes from a invisible target who might not even be in your camera view

 

Uhh... Do you stand still and AFK on the point knowing the enemy team has a mesmer?

Sorry, but it looks like you are indeed getting outplayed.

[Ghos.1326]

> @"Yukio blaster.9082" said:

> So basically you are asking to make infinite DRUID vs DRUID fights possible with every class now !

> No thnks !

>

 

This is a little arrogant and ignorant. I'll try to clarify what the OP is trying to say:

- No burst build should take your health from 100-0 in a matter of seconds, but they SHOULD deal large amounts of damage in a single go. Hence the term BURST.

- Anyone playing a bunker should be able to not die from playing against a single player, possibly even 2 players. However, said bunker should also not be able to deal burst style damage, or high amounts of sustained damage.

- Sustained damage should not be able to survive anything past a 1v1 scenario, hence bruisers. They can kill, but their sustain and their damages are not burst worthy, they do lower amounts of constant damages.

 

Technically, yes every, or at least most, classes should support a build or two that can go the route of being a bruiser. But the lines currently in terms of role are blurred so badly, that you have, for example, thief that can do insane burst damages without having to actually dip out of combat (s/d madness). Or mesmer that just bursts so hard, that even running defensive boons, traits, and utilities, does nothing in terms of mitigating damage. Also, I personally believe that the way Druid functions needs fixing also, so I agree with you on that one.

[Ghos.1326]

> @"Kasdwer.3721" said:

> but thats why the entire list is irrlevant, "overperforming" in certain aspect is literally the diversity classes has and why they are different classes to begin with, you wanna nerf rev mobility? you wanna give rev more condi cleanse and tankyness in return? do it with every class and after that every class will feel the same with no difference, the entire idea of having classes is that some of them perform better in certain aspects but worse in others

>

> the entire list means nothing when the classes that overperform also has clear weaknesses

 

I agree with this. Though some professions can do some similar things in roles, I also believe some professions should be able to do said role much better, depending on elite spec chosen, profession mechanic, and a few other things. Totally agreed.

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"Allarius.5670" said:

> It isn't broken damage or healing that is problematic, it is anything which can be built to an extreme. This includes number of active defenses, conditions, hard cc, condition cleansing, etc.

>

> Players want to be able to counter-play without resorting to heavy counter-building. Players want trade offs and windows of opportunity to punish opponents, tells they can react to, and more manageable numbers all around (defensively and offensively). Conquest is designed with this in mind: if you are countered you move elsewhere, you rotate to where you will be most effective. For some builds/professions that means constantly rotating, for others that means pushing a team fight.

>

> The problem is that being countered by build doesn't feel as good as by being counted by skill. Counter-building mostly comes down to a guessing game, whereas getting outplayed opens up greater opportunity for improvement.

>

> I appreciate the earlier comment that highlights the need for a main support if Scourge is present, otherwise the support is unlikely to carry its weight. Does this dynamic highlight build diversity or a critical problem that should be addressed?

>

> The game is obviously incredibly difficult to balance and this is exacerbated by the sheer number of options and the customization available to players. With the greater acceptance toward skill splits maybe the amulet system should be looked at more harshly.

>

> Perhaps it would be best to remove amulets altogether and balance skills and traits directly. It wouldn't remove counters, but it would tone down outliers and push everything to a more acceptable center. You'd still have customization via skill and trait selection.

 

Yes, people wanted builds they could out-play and situations where there were clear opportunities to capitalize on. The nature of sPvP rewards bunkering as well.

 

The real problem isn't stats or the damage but the fact that you see builds running insane amounts of damage with limited counterplay. Glassy? No longer are you vulnerable to being counter-bursted, because everyone is just running around immune to damage, free escapes, or with massive reductions all the time.

 

People wanted an offense-based game mode where people died quickly in order to demand more macro strategy (because "hold with four bunkers after capture" was lame and punished anything building damage except thief), but with all of the tells and more simple abilities of the core game.

 

And had the HoT/PoF powercreep not happened, I think we'd be in the golden age of PvP as a consequence.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

I'm down with the burst meta.

 

I play s/d thief but reroll when needed (and have far better success imo when I do) to bunker druid and support fb. I survive just fine unless I am completely focused by 3 or 4 players, which I say fair enough.

[wanya.1697]

> @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > I'm going to leave this here

> >

>

> You had endure pain off cd, l2p dood can't help that you have super slow reactions there was a huge tell, kapa.

 

lol yeah right which huge tell ? that is the right example to show what is wrong with gw2

too much dmg in few seconds there should be server side limit on 2k dmg per second so we actually can have proper fights and meaning full skilluse