broken damage numbers

[Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2]

> @"Ghos.1326" said:

> > @"Yukio blaster.9082" said:

> > So basically you are asking to make infinite DRUID vs DRUID fights possible with every class now !

> > No thnks !

> >

>

> This is a little arrogant and ignorant. I'll try to clarify what the OP is trying to say:

> - No burst build should take your health from 100-0 in a matter of seconds, but they SHOULD deal large amounts of damage in a single go. Hence the term BURST.

> - Anyone playing a bunker should be able to not die from playing against a single player, possibly even 2 players. However, said bunker should also not be able to deal burst style damage, or high amounts of sustained damage.

> - Sustained damage should not be able to survive anything past a 1v1 scenario, hence bruisers. They can kill, but their sustain and their damages are not burst worthy, they do lower amounts of constant damages.

>

> Technically, yes every, or at least most, classes should support a build or two that can go the route of being a bruiser. But the lines currently in terms of role are blurred so badly, that you have, for example, thief that can do insane burst damages without having to actually dip out of combat (s/d madness). Or mesmer that just bursts so hard, that even running defensive boons, traits, and utilities, does nothing in terms of mitigating damage. Also, I personally believe that the way Druid functions needs fixing also, so I agree with you on that one.

 

We need this.

[thatdarnkatz.7168]

> @"wanya.1697" said:

> > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > I'm going to leave this here

> > >

> >

> > You had endure pain off cd, l2p dood can't help that you have super slow reactions there was a huge tell, kapa.

>

> lol yeah right which huge tell ? that is the right example to show what is wrong with gw2

> too much dmg in few seconds there should be server side limit on 2k dmg per second so we actually can have proper fights and meaning full skilluse

>

 

> @"wanya.1697" said:

> > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > I'm going to leave this here

> > >

> >

> > You had endure pain off cd, l2p dood can't help that you have super slow reactions there was a huge tell, kapa.

>

> lol yeah right which huge tell ? that is the right example to show what is wrong with gw2

> too much dmg in few seconds there should be server side limit on 2k dmg per second so we actually can have proper fights and meaning full skilluse

>

 

That's actually pretty funny. You want nothing but bunker builds. 2k dps is absolutely crap and will let even non tanky builds to easily sustain. That will cause no deaths, and infinite fights. So now we have games where you run the fastest builds, aka, all thief, and whoever gets to the points first wins. Game over. I'm guessing you love to bunker really badly and don't want to be out played by people with actual skill.

[Swagg.9236]

> @"Razor.6392" said:

 

> core FA took skill

 

No, it never did.

 

> @"Razor.6392" said:

 

>scepter is not a pick up and play weapon

 

Yes, it absolutely is. It's entirely target-dependent; there is nothing more pick-up-and-play than a weapon set which ONLY FUNCTIONS if you press "tab" or mouse over a target and click "M1" before then letting the game aim everything for you (not even counting how the majority of FA's big-hitter damage is instantaneous). The only reason it got "easier" is because weaver just adds extra buttons to the same exact weapon bars that people have been using since 2012. Scepter ele has always been a skill-level joke.

 

 

[thatdarnkatz.7168]

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > @"Razor.6392" said:

>

> > core FA took skill

>

> No, it never did.

>

> > @"Razor.6392" said:

>

> >scepter is not a pick up and play weapon

>

> Yes, it absolutely is. It's entirely target-dependent; there is nothing more pick-up-and-play than a weapon set which ONLY FUNCTIONS if you press "tab" or mouse over a target and click "M1" before then letting the game aim everything for you (not even counting how the majority of FA's big-hitter damage is instantaneous). The only reason it got "easier" is because weaver just adds extra buttons to the same exact weapon bars that people have been using since 2012. Scepter ele has always been a skill-level joke.

>

>

 

Do you play fresh air at a high level? Did you actually try weaver? It's really glassy, and damage mitigation is sparse other than slowly running away, which means that when you are targeted, you aren't doing a ton of damage. As far as weaver, your invuln and reflect are now 4 seconds away unless you can crit, which against warriors, mesmers and several others, if they block, you aren't getting it and you get killed. You also realize that sustained DPS isn't great on either build correct? It's a spike, which you do have time to deal with, evade, block, dodge ect, then they have cooldowns to manage while they struggle to not be 1-shot themselves by your counter attacks.

[Swagg.9236]

> @"thatdarnkatz.7168" said:

> > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > > @"Razor.6392" said:

> >

> > > core FA took skill

> >

> > No, it never did.

> >

> > > @"Razor.6392" said:

> >

> > >scepter is not a pick up and play weapon

> >

> > Yes, it absolutely is. It's entirely target-dependent; there is nothing more pick-up-and-play than a weapon set which ONLY FUNCTIONS if you press "tab" or mouse over a target and click "M1" before then letting the game aim everything for you (not even counting how the majority of FA's big-hitter damage is instantaneous). The only reason it got "easier" is because weaver just adds extra buttons to the same exact weapon bars that people have been using since 2012. Scepter ele has always been a skill-level joke.

> >

> >

>

> Do you play fresh air at a high level? Did you actually try weaver? It's really glassy, and damage mitigation is sparse other than slowly running away, which means that when you are targeted, you aren't doing a ton of damage. As far as weaver, your invuln and reflect are now 4 seconds away unless you can crit, which against warriors, mesmers and several others, if they block, you aren't getting it and you get killed. You also realize that sustained DPS isn't great on either build correct? It's a spike, which you do have time to deal with, evade, block, dodge ect, then they have cooldowns to manage while they struggle to not be 1-shot themselves by your counter attacks.

 

Just because the game rotates around effortless damage negation which lasts as long as a weaver's burst doesn't mean that weaver isn't entirely pick-up-and-play. Miss me with that weak build since I got into plat with a run on **zerker, fire-air-arcane staff elementalist** (because marauder just doesn't bring enough DPS pressure). How about you actually trying playing with a build with ZERO protracted invulns and one which has one-second intervals and delays on its damage?

[Razor.6392]

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > @"Razor.6392" said:

>

> > core FA took skill

>

> No, it never did.

 

You're unfortunately wrong. Core FA was one of the very few professions that required execution (fighting games term), due to the sheer amount of button presses that you needed to pull off in less than a second. It's not straightforward as mesmer, because ele has multiple burst paths, and they aren't really damaging unless masterfully lined up.

 

With that said, it's not incredibly difficult, but when compared to other classes in gw2, it was up there among the harder ones.

 

[wanya.1697]

> @"thatdarnkatz.7168" said:

> > @"wanya.1697" said:

> > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > I'm going to leave this here

> > > >

> > >

> > > You had endure pain off cd, l2p dood can't help that you have super slow reactions there was a huge tell, kapa.

> >

> > lol yeah right which huge tell ? that is the right example to show what is wrong with gw2

> > too much dmg in few seconds there should be server side limit on 2k dmg per second so we actually can have proper fights and meaning full skilluse

> >

>

> > @"wanya.1697" said:

> > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > I'm going to leave this here

> > > >

> > >

> > > You had endure pain off cd, l2p dood can't help that you have super slow reactions there was a huge tell, kapa.

> >

> > lol yeah right which huge tell ? that is the right example to show what is wrong with gw2

> > too much dmg in few seconds there should be server side limit on 2k dmg per second so we actually can have proper fights and meaning full skilluse

> >

>

> That's actually pretty funny. You want nothing but bunker builds. 2k dps is absolutely crap and will let even non tanky builds to easily sustain. That will cause no deaths, and infinite fights. So now we have games where you run the fastest builds, aka, all thief, and whoever gets to the points first wins. Game over. I'm guessing you love to bunker really badly and don't want to be out played by people with actual skill.

 

not really bunker no but what would be so bad about it when you would win your fight only with a good timed cc on the heal instead of boom head shot crap

[Eddbopkins.2630]

I feel u should do 25-50% less damage if u attack from stealth. You already have the full advantage of a surpirsed attack...so why should you have full advantage to do 15k+ burst from such an advatage as being invisable undectable undodgeable unless u are lucky with an rng dodge.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

The higher DPS becomes game wide, the more important dodges/evades/blocks/invulns/stealths/high mobility becomes, and the less important statistical damage mitigation becomes such as toughness/vitality/protection. When DPS becomes nuclear, statistical tanking becomes negligent due to all builds being 1 to 2 shot from direct hits, regardless of amulet/build. Avoiding the DPS entirely is all that matters in the end in a DPS meta. When this happens, it becomes highly advantageous to run Mesmer/Thief builds for obvious reasons.

 

They just need to turn the damn damage down game wide by about 15%. Even raids are starting to become easy due to how much damage PoF brought in.

 

[thatdarnkatz.7168]

> @"wanya.1697" said:

> > @"thatdarnkatz.7168" said:

> > > @"wanya.1697" said:

> > > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > I'm going to leave this here

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > You had endure pain off cd, l2p dood can't help that you have super slow reactions there was a huge tell, kapa.

> > >

> > > lol yeah right which huge tell ? that is the right example to show what is wrong with gw2

> > > too much dmg in few seconds there should be server side limit on 2k dmg per second so we actually can have proper fights and meaning full skilluse

> > >

> >

> > > @"wanya.1697" said:

> > > > @"ArthurDent.9538" said:

> > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > I'm going to leave this here

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > You had endure pain off cd, l2p dood can't help that you have super slow reactions there was a huge tell, kapa.

> > >

> > > lol yeah right which huge tell ? that is the right example to show what is wrong with gw2

> > > too much dmg in few seconds there should be server side limit on 2k dmg per second so we actually can have proper fights and meaning full skilluse

> > >

> >

> > That's actually pretty funny. You want nothing but bunker builds. 2k dps is absolutely crap and will let even non tanky builds to easily sustain. That will cause no deaths, and infinite fights. So now we have games where you run the fastest builds, aka, all thief, and whoever gets to the points first wins. Game over. I'm guessing you love to bunker really badly and don't want to be out played by people with actual skill.

>

> not really bunker no but what would be so bad about it when you would win your fight only with a good timed cc on the heal instead of boom head shot crap

 

So assuming you mean that you mean 2k DPS incoming, then we need to remove your dodges, blocks and evades from all builds to make this work because you won't die otherwise. Assuming you mean 2k DPS outgoing per player (Aka, if 5 people hit you, then it's 10k DPS) then no team will kill anyone unless organized because no one ever takes a friggen target when you call them in most games. I've begged people ta attack the glass cannon destroying me, and no attacks on them. If they won't attack something glass and just sitting there, no one will die. This is completely assuming you mean DPS at all (Damage per second) and not Damage per hit. If you want to slow your gameplay down, then run a tankier build that does less damage, but can take a beating. If you want engaging gameplay, use blocks, evades and dodges. If you want to ignore the rest of what I said, run a spellbreaker and just go invuln forever to power and condi damage, and not get spiked. Everyone wins. The passive invulns on Engi and War are there for anti spike.

[Elmo Benchwarmer.3025]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> The higher DPS becomes game wide, the more important dodges/evades/blocks/invulns/stealths/high mobility becomes, and the less important statistical damage mitigation becomes such as toughness/vitality/protection. When DPS becomes nuclear, statistical tanking becomes negligent due to all builds being 1 to 2 shot from direct hits, regardless of amulet/build. Avoiding the DPS entirely is all that matters in the end in a DPS meta. When this happens, it becomes highly advantageous to run Mesmer/Thief builds for obvious reasons.

>

> They just need to turn the kitten damage down game wide by about 15%. Even raids are starting to become easy due to how much damage PoF brought in.

>

 

Quoting for emphasis. I completely agree with this. I don't want GW2 to play like a first person shooter (yes I ❤ to exaggerate).

[Acandis.3250]

Just going to leave this here.

 

https://clips.twitch.tv/TangentialGleamingSwallowSquadGoals

[dominik.9721]

Just going to leave this here.

https://clips.twitch.tv/TangentialFrozenAdminUWot

 

'superior understanding of the game' lmfao

if anet sees this, they will buff fb and remove zerk/demo/marauder

 

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> I feel u should do 25-50% less damage if u attack from stealth. You already have the full advantage of a surpirsed attack...so why should you have full advantage to do 15k+ burst from such an advatage as being invisable undectable undodgeable unless u are lucky with an rng dodge.

 

No, l2p

[apharma.3741]

While I agree damage is too high, same with burst it's also important to recognise what happened in the clips.

 

Bik had time to mash signet of stone as the mesmer popped up 1s before he died with purple flames.

The Guardian actually died because he was spamming his boons and getting them ripped, it's why the thief could stay in the bubble, took aegis, then stab and all the while had the FBs quickness increasing his sustained 333333111 spam.

Misha was hit by JI+mighty blow and thief at the same time it was a combined and sync'd attack.

FA weaver, you know I've seen faster from people with macros but yeah with a good macro you can almost instantly nuke someone at 900 range to nothing.

 

All damage needs toning down, the burst, the sustained but also the sustain and damage mitigation needs toning down so we don't end up with bunkers. This way cool down management, positioning as well as vitality and toughness can regain some more value. How much does it need toning down? I dunno maybe 25% then see where it all goes but it will take time to find the right spot.

 

Also we need to preserve anti bunker builds like SD thief, while I don't like the 3 spam or the insane damage on LS I do think having a class able to readily steal boons and hit through that block in a build like that is good. It's just a shame that not many classes can boast having such an anti boon/sustain build.

[MyPuppy.8970]

How do you survive an anti bunker build when you're not a bunker?

[messiah.1908]

> @"Blackjack.5621" said:

> The direction this game takes is worrying. In this post I am speaking from a support player standpoint and while I do understand that people do not enjoy endless stalemate fights I agree with the removal of magi amulet. This way firebrands can add more pressure to each other in order to force cooldowns and it also cuts overall sustain. BUT there is no point in playing support when people legit get oneshot. The burst damage has to be nerfed significantly. It is not fun to die with all cooldowns up when you don't even get to use them. Teamfights should be decided by cooldown management, swapping targets, coordination and communication and not by oneshotting people. If you are gonna kill the support role this will also kill the viability of any class that relies on support like necro and partially revenant, too. Right now I feel like I can not keep up with the support vs power classes, people just die in the cast time of a single heal and besides heal firebrand offers nothing, no damage, no 1v1 potential, no snowball potential, no mobility, no 1v2 potential to stall. The support role has already died in the ranked gamemode and even in tournaments like the last monthly subpar 5-dps setups made it into the finals of both Na and EU monthly. While the proposed changes already adress warrior and holo dps changes you are not planing to touch mesmer and thief, the most broken classes in the game. To visualize what I am talking about I will just give you examples of how stupid power damage in the current meta is:

>

> https://clips.twitch.tv/AcceptableBlazingPeppermintWow medium armor + vitality amulet getting clean oneshot from stealth by a single mesmer.

>

> https://clips.twitch.tv/TangentialFrozenAdminUWot s/d thief dealing ~23k damage and removing 2x aegis in 3-4 seconds on heavy armor target 1v1 no might stacks. I was at 100% hp + aegis when I started casting sanctuary. Feel free to pause the clip at the point where I start casting sanctuary and rewatch it carefully. I also got hit 5x inside my sanctuary (fix pls). Now Imagine a second mesmer/holo hits you aswell, there is no way to heal/kite that. A class that offers nothing but heal atleast needs to be able to survive a single player, yet more firebrand nerfs are planned but no thief damage nerfs.

>

> https://clips.twitch.tv/ProudIntelligentPlumPhilosoraptor another top player (he is using a toughnes amulet) being skillfully outplayed by stupid class, good luck supporting through that.

>

> https://clips.twitch.tv/InexpensiveSilkyHyenaPupper I landed a couple of oneshots myself as core guardian, then this happened xD The game turns into a clown fiesta.

>

>

> When ele and core guardian do burst people on 30 second cooldowns without extraordinary disengage ability the risk/reward may be justified, but for mesmer and thief who can spam this kind of damage while being able to reliably disengage from overcommitment it is not acceptable + mes/thief also can use this mobility for decaps and +1s which guard/ele cant and mesmer has access to the strongest and unique utility in the game that has no counterplay to it (portal).

 

video 2 - dont see any problem. he steal boons from you. quickness, aegis so he could attack faster and not being pushed away from sanctuary....

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @"MyPuppy.8970" said:

> How do you survive an anti bunker build when you're not a bunker?

 

The reason why anti bunker builds are effective against bunkers is due to them being able to play around the cancerous amounts of damage mitigation/sustain of bunkers, non bunker builds do a lot better again anti bunker builds in general since they don’t rely on the same amount or style of mitigation or sustain, and those fights comes down to who is the better player. Pretty simple to understand really.

 

[Larenc.1269]

> @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > Life is tough for any reapers doing spvp.

>

> If I have someone say their a reaper in ranked I know that myself or the ele I run with is going to have to carry them. Any necro spec outside Scourge is a death sentence and scourge is too unless there’s two or a FB with them.

 

I Find this funny. I'm a Reaper and I have to carry groups constantly. Any and I mean anyone who says reaper lags behind scourge doesn't know how to play necro. Also Firebrand is an easy to beat spec imo with reaper. Necros with a decent build should only be getting hit by 1/3rd of the condition damage the firebrand is able to put out.

 

But what do I know i've only pvped with necro sense the game came out surely I have no clue[sarcasm]

 

 

On another note. I have never been 1 shot by any class the highest i've ever seen a class do to my necro is only 9k and that was recent with that soul beast leap splash skill That was a crit with might. Toughness helps alot. Its there for a reason.

[Jinks.2057]

> @"dominik.9721" said:

> Just going to leave this here.

> https://clips.twitch.tv/TangentialFrozenAdminUWot

>

> 'superior understanding of the game' lmfao

> if anet sees this, they will buff fb and remove zerk/demo/marauder

>

 

Ok that guardian player is not good. I said it. I can't take people using this as an example of s/d thief countering guardian.

 

We start the clip off with the guardian player showing his back to the thief and spamming his loot stick at the Necro disengaging towards mid. Who does this!!!!

 

The thief then inf strikes in and we begin the fight. Let's pause and ask who does this one more time....because who fucking does this??!!??

 

We then get to watch as he completely rando dodges AA's and not any flanking strikes or larcenous strikes. Heck he even sat there thinking his block would stop a Basi'd Larcenous Strike. Also throughout the entire clip his keyboard turning couldn't keep up with the thief's movements.

 

I'm sorry but this guardian is not that good and people using that as evidence against thief is honestly just lobbying for Anet to cater to low skilled players.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"Larenc.1269" said:

> > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said:

> > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > Life is tough for any reapers doing spvp.

> >

> > If I have someone say their a reaper in ranked I know that myself or the ele I run with is going to have to carry them. Any necro spec outside Scourge is a death sentence and scourge is too unless there’s two or a FB with them.

>

> I Find this funny. I'm a Reaper and I have to carry groups constantly. Any and I mean anyone who says reaper lags behind scourge doesn't know how to play necro. Also Firebrand is an easy to beat spec imo with reaper. Necros with a decent build should only be getting hit by 1/3rd of the condition damage the firebrand is able to put out.

>

> But what do I know i've only pvped with necro sense the game came out surely I have no clue[sarcasm]

>

>

> On another note. I have never been 1 shot by any class the highest i've ever seen a class do to my necro is only 9k and that was recent with that soul beast leap splash skill That was a crit with might. Toughness helps alot. Its there for a reason.

 

Well your mileage may vary. I was speaking from personal experience as whenever I have a reaper in team they are respawning the most compared to Scourge. I have a couple people I queue with on occasion and if they said they were running reaper or core necro I’d just say ok because I know they can play that class but for the most part I don’t see reaper doing well. Again, that’s my experience. I main Mesmer and have put well over 2k hours in on it so I’ve not played necro much outside hoping on to see what skills do what and how to avoid them, etc.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

> @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > I feel u should do 25-50% less damage if u attack from stealth. You already have the full advantage of a surpirsed attack...so why should you have full advantage to do 15k+ burst from such an advatage as being invisable undectable undodgeable unless u are lucky with an rng dodge.

>

> No, l2p

 

Name 1 other game that has you go completely invisable and allows you to attack the target with insta death moves? Such game play is game braking and not fun to play against.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > > I feel u should do 25-50% less damage if u attack from stealth. You already have the full advantage of a surpirsed attack...so why should you have full advantage to do 15k+ burst from such an advatage as being invisable undectable undodgeable unless u are lucky with an rng dodge.

> >

> > No, l2p

>

> Name 1 other game that has you go completely invisable and allows you to attack the target with insta death moves? Such game play is game braking and not fun to play against.

 

K so you should be rank number 1 playing power mesmer or thief right? Show me your moves

[Eddbopkins.2630]

> @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > > > I feel u should do 25-50% less damage if u attack from stealth. You already have the full advantage of a surpirsed attack...so why should you have full advantage to do 15k+ burst from such an advatage as being invisable undectable undodgeable unless u are lucky with an rng dodge.

> > >

> > > No, l2p

> >

> > Name 1 other game that has you go completely invisable and allows you to attack the target with insta death moves? Such game play is game braking and not fun to play against.

>

> K so you should be rank number 1 playing power mesmer or thief right? Show me your moves

 

Lmao i dont touch those two classes b.c everyone who plays them has this "im the best player complex" when they actually are just being carried by class mechanics such as stealth and teleports and detargeting.

Look at my emblem is ele isnt it?

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said:

> > > > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > > > > I feel u should do 25-50% less damage if u attack from stealth. You already have the full advantage of a surpirsed attack...so why should you have full advantage to do 15k+ burst from such an advatage as being invisable undectable undodgeable unless u are lucky with an rng dodge.

> > > >

> > > > No, l2p

> > >

> > > Name 1 other game that has you go completely invisable and allows you to attack the target with insta death moves? Such game play is game braking and not fun to play against.

> >

> > K so you should be rank number 1 playing power mesmer or thief right? Show me your moves

>

> Lmao i dont touch those two classes b.c everyone who plays them has this "im the best player complex" when they actually are just being carried by class mechanics such as stealth and teleports and detargeting.

> Look at my emblem is ele isnt it?

 

Well my emblem is revenant so obviously I don't play anything but revenant! /s

 

So you literally have a l2p problem because you don't want to play these builds that are so carried by stealth and ports and learn how to counter them. Totally valid bruh. Thief and mesmer will forever be OP to you until you learn them and, quite literally, learn 2 play vs them by noticing what gives you a hard time when you play thief/mes.