dominik.9721 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > Just going to leave this here. > > https://clips.twitch.tv/TangentialFrozenAdminUWot > > > > 'superior understanding of the game' lmfao > > if anet sees this, they will buff fb and remove zerk/demo/marauder > > > > Ok that guardian player is not good. I said it. I can't take people using this as an example of s/d thief countering guardian. > > We start the clip off with the guardian player showing his back to the thief and spamming his loot stick at the Necro disengaging towards mid. Who does this!!!! > > The thief then inf strikes in and we begin the fight. Let's pause and ask who does this one more time....because who kitten does this??!!?? > > We then get to watch as he completely rando dodges AA's and not any flanking strikes or larcenous strikes. Heck he even sat there thinking his block would stop a Basi'd Larcenous Strike. Also throughout the entire clip his keyboard turning couldn't keep up with the thief's movements. > > I'm sorry but this guardian is not that good and people using that as evidence against thief is honestly just lobbying for Anet to cater to low skilled players. It's blackjack who opened the thread. That's the funfact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddbopkins.2630 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said: > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said: > > > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said: > > > > > > I feel u should do 25-50% less damage if u attack from stealth. You already have the full advantage of a surpirsed attack...so why should you have full advantage to do 15k+ burst from such an advatage as being invisable undectable undodgeable unless u are lucky with an rng dodge. > > > > > > > > > > No, l2p > > > > > > > > Name 1 other game that has you go completely invisable and allows you to attack the target with insta death moves? Such game play is game braking and not fun to play against. > > > > > > K so you should be rank number 1 playing power mesmer or thief right? Show me your moves > > > > Lmao i dont touch those two classes b.c everyone who plays them has this "im the best player complex" when they actually are just being carried by class mechanics such as stealth and teleports and detargeting. > > Look at my emblem is ele isnt it? > > Well my emblem is revenant so obviously I don't play anything but revenant! /s > > So you literally have a l2p problem because you don't want to play these builds that are so carried by stealth and ports and learn how to counter them. Totally valid bruh. Thief and mesmer will forever be OP to you until you learn them and, quite literally, learn 2 play vs them by noticing what gives you a hard time when you play thief/mes. been playing the game since release...i dont need to play thf or mes to know what to do against them. If you cant see how attacking invisibly is an unfair advantage then you got blinders over your eyes.....Invisable 12k+ backstabs or invisable 13k+ clone detonations is kinda unfair when most classes it attacks is only at 12k-16k hp it self. Getting a 10k+ backstab then haveing heartseeker do crazy amounts more damage the lower the targets hp is insane...im not talking 1v1 where the thf has to deal with gaurd blocks or aoe blind, im talking team fights where you dont see it comming....giving the target no chance to react or interact with the thf except for his stomping after an invisable 15k+ attack or two is no fun to play against.....its a great idea for the pros to do and deal with but they around? This game pro dude? Lets make it enjoyable first. Then tweek it to be leet? Yeah? And honestly i dont play anything else other then ele. I also dont do pve i just pvp and that enough for me in my life. I dont really have time to do anything else if i get the chance to gw i wont waist it running around killing npcs ill fight real people anyday over npcs and mobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 > @"dominik.9721" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"dominik.9721" said: > > > Just going to leave this here. > > > https://clips.twitch.tv/TangentialFrozenAdminUWot > > > > > > 'superior understanding of the game' lmfao > > > if anet sees this, they will buff fb and remove zerk/demo/marauder > > > > > > > Ok that guardian player is not good. I said it. I can't take people using this as an example of s/d thief countering guardian. > > > > We start the clip off with the guardian player showing his back to the thief and spamming his loot stick at the Necro disengaging towards mid. Who does this!!!! > > > > The thief then inf strikes in and we begin the fight. Let's pause and ask who does this one more time....because who kitten does this??!!?? > > > > We then get to watch as he completely rando dodges AA's and not any flanking strikes or larcenous strikes. Heck he even sat there thinking his block would stop a Basi'd Larcenous Strike. Also throughout the entire clip his keyboard turning couldn't keep up with the thief's movements. > > > > I'm sorry but this guardian is not that good and people using that as evidence against thief is honestly just lobbying for Anet to cater to low skilled players. > > It's blackjack who opened the thread. That's the funfact It could be Jesus himself and I'd call that bad play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 In vid with thief spanking B J he got stability stolen and quickness,so while 1 pulse of this bubble is gone, thief with quickness destroyed him till second pulse... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said: > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said: > > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said: > > > > > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > > > > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said: > > > > > > > I feel u should do 25-50% less damage if u attack from stealth. You already have the full advantage of a surpirsed attack...so why should you have full advantage to do 15k+ burst from such an advatage as being invisable undectable undodgeable unless u are lucky with an rng dodge. > > > > > > > > > > > > No, l2p > > > > > > > > > > Name 1 other game that has you go completely invisable and allows you to attack the target with insta death moves? Such game play is game braking and not fun to play against. > > > > > > > > K so you should be rank number 1 playing power mesmer or thief right? Show me your moves > > > > > > Lmao i dont touch those two classes b.c everyone who plays them has this "im the best player complex" when they actually are just being carried by class mechanics such as stealth and teleports and detargeting. > > > Look at my emblem is ele isnt it? > > > > Well my emblem is revenant so obviously I don't play anything but revenant! /s > > > > So you literally have a l2p problem because you don't want to play these builds that are so carried by stealth and ports and learn how to counter them. Totally valid bruh. Thief and mesmer will forever be OP to you until you learn them and, quite literally, learn 2 play vs them by noticing what gives you a hard time when you play thief/mes. > > been playing the game since release...i dont need to play thf or mes to know what to do against them. If you cant see how attacking invisibly is an unfair advantage then you got blinders over your eyes.....Invisable 12k+ backstabs or invisable 13k+ clone detonations is kinda unfair when most classes it attacks is only at 12k-16k hp it self. Getting a 10k+ backstab then haveing heartseeker do crazy amounts more damage the lower the targets hp is insane...im not talking 1v1 where the thf has to deal with gaurd blocks or aoe blind, im talking team fights where you dont see it comming....giving the target no chance to react or interact with the thf except for his stomping after an invisable 15k+ attack or two is no fun to play against.....its a great idea for the pros to do and deal with but they around? This game pro dude? Lets make it enjoyable first. Then tweek it to be leet? Yeah? > > And honestly i dont play anything else other then ele. I also dont do pve i just pvp and that enough for me in my life. I dont really have time to do anything else if i get the chance to gw i wont waist it running around killing npcs ill fight real people anyday over npcs and mobs. I've been spvping on thief the most lately, and having played a little, i can say, you can still counter a thief, if he makes a mistake and tries to melee you with ele.I was messing around in pvp lobby on ele tempest, and practicing with a nice thief, i managed to knock him down with wind attack and burn him and use dagger to escape.I did lose, but i learned a bit about mobility on ele. On necro:If you prepare your stunbreak and use a shout of some sort to turn that thiefs boons into conditions, especially if your scourge, it can be scary for that thief, especially S/D.Necros got some pretty good aoes that help vs those thieves, especially if they try to get within melee mode. Oh and if you are smart like that engineer who beat me on S/D, you can win too as engi.Place those mine bomb traps and move around try to lure me in and call for help to get me burned down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swagg.9236 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 > @"Razor.6392" said: > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > > > core FA took skill > > > > No, it never did. > > You're unfortunately wrong. Core FA was one of the very few professions that required execution (fighting games term), due to the sheer amount of button presses that you needed to pull off in less than a second. It's not straightforward as mesmer, because ele has multiple burst paths, and they aren't really damaging unless masterfully lined up. > > With that said, it's not incredibly difficult, but when compared to other classes in gw2, it was up there among the harder ones. > Muscle memory, especially within the context of instant, ranged damage vs enemies without similar capabilities (which was always the ideal and sought-after match-up), does not comprise any sort of "fighting game execution." Those games feature combat with everything in full view and with adequate tells and cool down frames. FA has never had any of those. The best way to use it is to ambush from off screen, press every button, and invuln/line of sight away in case something goes bad. It's a joke compared to any sort of competitive fighting game consider how muscle memory requires 0 brain, and anyone can do it with a modicum of practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > @"Swagg.9236" said: > > > > @"Razor.6392" said: > > > > > > > core FA took skill > > > > > > No, it never did. > > > > You're unfortunately wrong. Core FA was one of the very few professions that required execution (fighting games term), due to the sheer amount of button presses that you needed to pull off in less than a second. It's not straightforward as mesmer, because ele has multiple burst paths, and they aren't really damaging unless masterfully lined up. > > > > With that said, it's not incredibly difficult, but when compared to other classes in gw2, it was up there among the harder ones. > > > > Muscle memory, especially within the constant of instant, ranged damage vs enemies without similar capabilities (which was always the ideal and sought-after match-up), does not comprise any sort of "fighting game execution." Those games feature combat with everything in full view and with adequate tells and cool down frames. FA has never had any of those. The best way to use it is to ambush from off screen, press every button, and invuln/line of sight away in case something goes bad. It's a joke compared to any sort of competitive fighting game consider how muscle memory requires 0 brain, and anyone can do it with a modicum of practice. Ok now name other classes in gw2 that required any as much "modicum of practice" as FA core. Press every button? Maybe in wvw with the overinflated damage, but in spvp to even kill people or overcome matchups you had to combine your lackluster single target damage into barrages of 5-7 abilities at a time consistently, to do any sort of damage. To this day I can't phoenix -> lightning flash -> arcane blast -> air attunement -> air 2/3 ( and 4 if s/d) (6 key presses in 0.5 seconds, along with perfect mouse positioning). You're talking about matchups when I'm solely talking about complex sequences of button presses with a very limited window to pull off. Ambush? Unless perfectly lined up, core FA never 100-0'd people in spvp. Do we even play the same game? 0 brain? Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brannigan.9831 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 > @"sephiroth.4217" said: > I saw a Mesmer instagib a Ranger then I saw a Thief instagib a Mesmer... It's almost like a game of "Rock, Paper and Scissors"..... > > So all I can think of now is: >  > This is just stupid. This game has 9 professions and there is only 5 spots on a team. For this to be a workable strategy basically every player would be competent on every class and build so they could see what the other side was playing and switch to counters.. And this game was not suppossed to be rock, paper scissors. Show me any kind of quote from A-net that shows they believed this was supposed to be a hard counter type game? It was a ridiculous claim but the way they sold this was basically play what you want almost every profession will be able to fill multiple roles. The idea that a build should just faceroll because the other team doesn't have anyone playing what counters it is ludicrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 > @"Odik.4587" said: > In vid with thief spanking B J he got stability stolen and quickness,so while 1 pulse of this bubble is gone, thief with quickness destroyed him till second pulse... And he failed to dodge a single larc strike. Simple stuff like this and the fight goes another way. Heck if his Scourge Teammate stays we wouldn't be shaking our heads at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeepBoopBop.5403 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > In vid with thief spanking B J he got stability stolen and quickness,so while 1 pulse of this bubble is gone, thief with quickness destroyed him till second pulse... > > And he failed to dodge a single larc strike. Simple stuff like this and the fight goes another way. > The scary part is people want something like cast time nerfs on LS... It is practically animated the same as third skill on sword auto chain and only really hits harder if the target has no boons. L2 strafe/dodge people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aza.2105 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: >**only really hits harder if the target has no boons. ** What you mean is that it always hits hard because a player always has boons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > In vid with thief spanking B J he got stability stolen and quickness,so while 1 pulse of this bubble is gone, thief with quickness destroyed him till second pulse... > > > > And he failed to dodge a single larc strike. Simple stuff like this and the fight goes another way. > > > > The scary part is people want something like cast time nerfs on LS... It is practically animated the same as third skill on sword auto chain and only really hits harder if the target has no boons. L2 strafe/dodge people... this entire chain is aids, both unblockable and LC hit like a truck +stealing boons... ? with quickness as you seen its destroying ppl in a moment :dizzy: and i dont defend Blo Jack ... i mean , he just complaint about being hit in sanctuary,i said why Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > In vid with thief spanking B J he got stability stolen and quickness,so while 1 pulse of this bubble is gone, thief with quickness destroyed him till second pulse... > > > > And he failed to dodge a single larc strike. Simple stuff like this and the fight goes another way. > > > > The scary part is people want something like cast time nerfs on LS... It is practically animated the same as third skill on sword auto chain and only really hits harder if the target has no boons. L2 strafe/dodge people... No the scary part is we agree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 > @"Odik.4587" said: > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > In vid with thief spanking B J he got stability stolen and quickness,so while 1 pulse of this bubble is gone, thief with quickness destroyed him till second pulse... > > > > > > And he failed to dodge a single larc strike. Simple stuff like this and the fight goes another way. > > > > > > > The scary part is people want something like cast time nerfs on LS... It is practically animated the same as third skill on sword auto chain and only really hits harder if the target has no boons. L2 strafe/dodge people... > > this entire chain is aids, both unblockable and LC hit like a truck +stealing boons... ? with quickness as you seen its destroying ppl in a moment :dizzy: > and i dont defend Blo Jack ... i mean , he just complaint about being hit in sanctuary,i said why Any class with quickness destroys people though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 You seems to not realize its depends on the build person using ... ? For example i dont recognize many classes being that dangerous as unblockable 3 spam ?:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bLind.6278 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Reduce all damage and healing by 25-30%. Create more active/reactive gameplay by actually giving players time to react to enemy burst while making it so that letting them get a single heal off doesn't mean you lose. Slow the pace of PvP down and let players actually respond to the game. GW2 is not an fps, it shouldn't be purely built around reaction speed. There is very little counterplay in this game because it's more efficient to just brute force your way through it. After damage/healing is reduced, revisit class balance. It will be far easier to determine what aspects of a class are too strong when you actually have a chance to see how that individual skill impacts a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 > @"Odik.4587" said: > You seems to not realize its depends on the build person using ... ? For example i dont recognize many classes being that dangerous as unblockable 3 spam ?:D No but other classes can make their big hits unblockable and destroy that FB even faster with quickness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 You wot m8?Iirc the only one s/d was able to solo pre nerfed FB and since FB nerf...how come others can do it better than s/d........... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > In vid with thief spanking B J he got stability stolen and quickness,so while 1 pulse of this bubble is gone, thief with quickness destroyed him till second pulse... > > > > And he failed to dodge a single larc strike. Simple stuff like this and the fight goes another way. > > > > The scary part is people want something like cast time nerfs on LS... It is practically animated the same as third skill on sword auto chain and only really hits harder if the target has no boons. L2 strafe/dodge people... So far from my experience, i can definitely see why people would say thief requires a high skill ceiling.Gotta practice a lot and aim the dodges perfectly. I seem to be able to do lots of damage, but boy do i get wrecked fast when i mess up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 2018 - people still complain about mesmer's instagib, something that exists since the game was released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"BeepBoopBop.5403" said: > > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > > @"Odik.4587" said: > > > > In vid with thief spanking B J he got stability stolen and quickness,so while 1 pulse of this bubble is gone, thief with quickness destroyed him till second pulse... > > > > > > And he failed to dodge a single larc strike. Simple stuff like this and the fight goes another way. > > > > > > > The scary part is people want something like cast time nerfs on LS... It is practically animated the same as third skill on sword auto chain and only really hits harder if the target has no boons. L2 strafe/dodge people... > > So far from my experience, i can definitely see why people would say thief requires a high skill ceiling.Gotta practice a lot and aim the dodges perfectly. > > I seem to be able to do lots of damage, but boy do i get wrecked fast when i mess up. Practice on surviving without using your utility slots. Once you start being able to do that you'll start saving your utilities to save you from mistakes. Now this will take a lot more practice though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > 2018 - people still complain about mesmer's instagib, something that exists since the game was released. Easier to complain than take time to correct/make adjustments to their game play, learn map awareness, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > 2018 - people still complain about mesmer's instagib, something that exists since the game was released. > > Easier to complain than take time to correct/make adjustments to their game play, learn map awareness, etc A proper mes burst from stealth gives zero reaction time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > 2018 - people still complain about mesmer's instagib, something that exists since the game was released. > > > > Easier to complain than take time to correct/make adjustments to their game play, learn map awareness, etc > > A proper mes burst from stealth gives zero reaction time. Yeah they have less than 3 seconds to get to you and set up said burst. If you’re practicing map awareness there’s very few points you can’t see them coming. The problem is that most people don’t pay attention to the map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > @"Jinks.2057" said: > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said: > > > > 2018 - people still complain about mesmer's instagib, something that exists since the game was released. > > > > > > Easier to complain than take time to correct/make adjustments to their game play, learn map awareness, etc > > > > A proper mes burst from stealth gives zero reaction time. > > Yeah they have less than 3 seconds to get to you and set up said burst. If you’re practicing map awareness there’s very few points you can’t see them coming. The problem is that most people don’t pay attention to the map. You can chain 2 stealths together for 6 seconds. Also 1v1 and going stealth you can still easily burst someone 100-0 b/c the stealth removes the visual tells. What this does is allow the mesmer to make sure all his shots line up at the right time along with his instant stun. The video evidence we have here shows the mesmer being off on his timing. Properly timed it would actually look like the thief burst we saw later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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