Balthazzarr.1349 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 > @"XenesisII.1540" said: > Speaking as a Mag player (please don't report the post I'm trying to be helpful), and former SoS player, their pugs have never been up to par as there were/are a lot of casual players. In the old days a lot of players that got better through playing, were trained in organized guild groups, but back in those days SoS had fight guilds that basically didn't want to be part of the server and didn't really care to train anyone but their own, a lot of times they took who they deemed good and ran off, even so their NA has always been weak on guilds. I was part of one of the bigger zerg guilds on there, and it was extremely difficult getting players to run appropriate builds. > > These days on pretty much every server, guilds and pug commanders are dying out, there isn't as much server wide training happening either. The only real way you're going to have a large server wide effect of change is if you're in the lead position actively promoting that change, that either means teaching while pug commanding or from an open guild raid, leading by example. > > Other than that it's really up to the individuals to actually want to improve and make the appropriate changes to their game, you can't make those changes for them. > The problem is a lot of players also tend to be super casuals, know it alls, or flat out stubborn that will feel insulted at even a hint of advice. Ask people what they're running, ask them what they think of this other build that may be more appropriate, don't suggest a player change their class or build because that's just an instant turn off and don't listen to you action. > > Changes which include: > 1. Running the appropriate gear, exotics at minimum, right stats for the type of build they're using. > 2. Running the right build, not some frankenstein hybrid build that doesn't do much of anything, while many will say metabattle.com is garbage, it is a good beginning starting point on getting a functioning build that you can work on. > 3. Watching positioning, stay out of red circles and siege fire, move around pushes, don't be afraid to use escapes, always be moving in battle and don't stand in one spot for long. > 4. There are times to run into a fight, times to look for a more appropriate area to fight, and times to run away from a fight. You'd be surprised how many good sized groups will just break and run if you give them a hint of pressure, but also if you're a good sized group don't just break and run, look for a better place to fight like choke points instead of just full out running which leads to your tail or even more than half your group dying without even putting up a fight which in the end was for nothing. > 5. Practice and experience will or rather should make you a better player, depending if you decide to learn or be a casual. You're not going to get better experience by always running from a fight, you also won't be able to figure out your class in wvw setting, positioning, and how much you can handle if you just constantly run. > 6. Join an organized guild and learning from the experience there, you pick up a lot of strategy tactics and positioning from running in guild groups, even a terrible one should be a learning experience. Play in different roles and group sizes and learn about classes and what they can do, very often roaming fights turn into group fights and knowing group tactics helps. > 7. Don't follow a commander blindly, be aware of your surroundings and question what they are doing, yes even the good ones. If a group is sitting on the portal ramming a door, you probably should be standing 10 ft away from them and looking around for incoming enemies. Positioning is one of the most important things to learn in this game. If you're range keep your group between you and the enemy, if you're melee stay on tag but also don't stand in red for longer than you can handle. Don't stand directly behind your group and the enemy or you'll be eating Rev CoR's are examples of watching your position. > 8. In fights target the highest priority targets first, that usually means any squishies you can kill quickly over a spellbreaker or firebrand that's going to last a lot longer and be able to mitigate your damage especially your burst damage. > 9. Have no fear, it's only points. Die, learn, get better, have fun. > > It's a great feeling knowing most of the time the allies around you can fight and won't just break from even number fights. Knowing you can push guild groups without a commander on your side and still have a fighting chance, because those players put in the time to get better. > Nicely said. Can’t give two thumbs up or I would have. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugrakarma.9416 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > @"ugrakarma.9416" > > This is how TSYM and TL have grown a lot in few months(but these 2 are in breaktime atm) > > Corons done again already? > Lol I thought for sure they'd stick around this time 0.O > > last meeting hes saids him gets burned out. but, he will come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strages.2950 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 > @"Namer.9750" said: > > @"Reverence.6915" said: > > Most of our server are casual players. You can't change that kind of mindset that easily. There's no serious GvG/zerg busting style guilds to educate and show those players how fun it is when you get good at the game, rather than simply getting farmed. > > > > Trying to recruit on SoS for a more serious guild is like banging my head against a wall. Not easy. > > There were, tho. Both TBT and BMO fit that criteria. > > Well, y'all ran TBT off, so I suppose BMO has to carry the weight of SoS on their shoulders. Idk man, SoS NA has been terrible for the most part forever; all the good roamers are OCX/SEA. > > In the interests of helpfulness, I've found that quickly partying up with other roamers to direct them at a target is helpful. That's about as far as you can do, because most players aren't going to change their builds because some other random dude told them so. So pick out targets for them, maybe use a class that allows you to spike high value enemy targets like Scourges or Druids easily, etc. TBT is a serious fight guild? Give me a break, just because they advertise that on team chat to recruit doesn't mean they're any good. All they did for the 2 months they were paired with BP was ask where the fights are and stare at them then run away. Where did those nerds move off to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shagaliscious.6281 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 > @"Strages.2950" said: > > @"Namer.9750" said: > > > @"Reverence.6915" said: > > > Most of our server are casual players. You can't change that kind of mindset that easily. There's no serious GvG/zerg busting style guilds to educate and show those players how fun it is when you get good at the game, rather than simply getting farmed. > > > > > > Trying to recruit on SoS for a more serious guild is like banging my head against a wall. Not easy. > > > > There were, tho. Both TBT and BMO fit that criteria. > > > > Well, y'all ran TBT off, so I suppose BMO has to carry the weight of SoS on their shoulders. Idk man, SoS NA has been terrible for the most part forever; all the good roamers are OCX/SEA. > > > > In the interests of helpfulness, I've found that quickly partying up with other roamers to direct them at a target is helpful. That's about as far as you can do, because most players aren't going to change their builds because some other random dude told them so. So pick out targets for them, maybe use a class that allows you to spike high value enemy targets like Scourges or Druids easily, etc. > > TBT is a serious fight guild? Give me a break, just because they advertise that on team chat to recruit doesn't mean they're any good. > All they did for the 2 months they were paired with BP was ask where the fights are and stare at them then run away. > > Where did those nerds move off to? They are now on Maguuma (or the paired server), and the only time I've seen them running, they run with 20+ pugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlySynz.3471 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 The only real way to get better at fighting is to stop blobbing, or more so, stop engaging enemies with overwhelming numbers. Instead engage with lesser numbers and expect to lose the first few times. You'll learn what to use and when, how to position yourself better, and you'll even learn the tricks of the guilds/commanders you're facing and act accordingly. Overall you will simply get better, that way when you engage with even numbers, or engage out in the open with 1-5 people, you stand a far better chance instead of getting run over. A lot of people are mentioning positioning here as being key (and it is). If you want to get good at positioning, run a zerker ele with your group and attempt to attack SM or a Keep under the copious amounts of siege. Do that without dying, and you're golden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
displayname.8315 Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 The militia are usually pretty low rank and non-pvp but they do play without a tag and try to roam so that's impressive. If they enjoy the pvp play maybe they'll watch some fights on youtube that's probably the best way to learn your class and other classes too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arlette.9684 Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > Quite the humblebrag here. No Humblebrag, anyone that knows me, I ain’t one to brag. Thanks for the attempt at humor for populist thumbs up, tho. You must be from QQ. > @"Balthazzarr.1349" said: > > @"XenesisII.1540" said: > > Speaking as a Mag player (please don't report the post I'm trying to be helpful), and former SoS player, their pugs have never been up to par as there were/are a lot of casual players. In the old days a lot of players that got better through playing, were trained in organized guild groups, but back in those days SoS had fight guilds that basically didn't want to be part of the server and didn't really care to train anyone but their own, a lot of times they took who they deemed good and ran off, even so their NA has always been weak on guilds. I was part of one of the bigger zerg guilds on there, and it was extremely difficult getting players to run appropriate builds. > > > > These days on pretty much every server, guilds and pug commanders are dying out, there isn't as much server wide training happening either. The only real way you're going to have a large server wide effect of change is if you're in the lead position actively promoting that change, that either means teaching while pug commanding or from an open guild raid, leading by example. > > > > Other than that it's really up to the individuals to actually want to improve and make the appropriate changes to their game, you can't make those changes for them. > > The problem is a lot of players also tend to be super casuals, know it alls, or flat out stubborn that will feel insulted at even a hint of advice. Ask people what they're running, ask them what they think of this other build that may be more appropriate, don't suggest a player change their class or build because that's just an instant turn off and don't listen to you action. > > > > Changes which include: > > 1. Running the appropriate gear, exotics at minimum, right stats for the type of build they're using. > > 2. Running the right build, not some frankenstein hybrid build that doesn't do much of anything, while many will say metabattle.com is garbage, it is a good beginning starting point on getting a functioning build that you can work on. > > 3. Watching positioning, stay out of red circles and siege fire, move around pushes, don't be afraid to use escapes, always be moving in battle and don't stand in one spot for long. > > 4. There are times to run into a fight, times to look for a more appropriate area to fight, and times to run away from a fight. You'd be surprised how many good sized groups will just break and run if you give them a hint of pressure, but also if you're a good sized group don't just break and run, look for a better place to fight like choke points instead of just full out running which leads to your tail or even more than half your group dying without even putting up a fight which in the end was for nothing. > > 5. Practice and experience will or rather should make you a better player, depending if you decide to learn or be a casual. You're not going to get better experience by always running from a fight, you also won't be able to figure out your class in wvw setting, positioning, and how much you can handle if you just constantly run. > > 6. Join an organized guild and learning from the experience there, you pick up a lot of strategy tactics and positioning from running in guild groups, even a terrible one should be a learning experience. Play in different roles and group sizes and learn about classes and what they can do, very often roaming fights turn into group fights and knowing group tactics helps. > > 7. Don't follow a commander blindly, be aware of your surroundings and question what they are doing, yes even the good ones. If a group is sitting on the portal ramming a door, you probably should be standing 10 ft away from them and looking around for incoming enemies. Positioning is one of the most important things to learn in this game. If you're range keep your group between you and the enemy, if you're melee stay on tag but also don't stand in red for longer than you can handle. Don't stand directly behind your group and the enemy or you'll be eating Rev CoR's are examples of watching your position. > > 8. In fights target the highest priority targets first, that usually means any squishies you can kill quickly over a spellbreaker or firebrand that's going to last a lot longer and be able to mitigate your damage especially your burst damage. > > 9. Have no fear, it's only points. Die, learn, get better, have fun. > > > > It's a great feeling knowing most of the time the allies around you can fight and won't just break from even number fights. Knowing you can push guild groups without a commander on your side and still have a fighting chance, because those players put in the time to get better. > > > > Nicely said. Can’t give two thumbs up or I would have. :) That’s why his is the accepted answer :wink: I see a lot of suggestions, I do wanna mention that a lot of you are giving me suggestions in regards to what I can do to get better, where as I never said the problem was me not knowing wtf to do. I asked for ideas on how to make an entire server roam ready. Do make the distinction, I am well aware of what has to be done to succeed, what I’m asking is how to transcend that knowledge to the average Joe on SoS so as to imrpove the overall health of WvW on the server, and give their opponents an actual fair game instead of a doormat to wipe their shoes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oriens.5630 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 [This is *not* a post saying how things should be; these are my thoughts/questions to strategy in WvW and training.] Being fairly new to WvW, but not to strategy in games, I have wondered why there aren't more smaller groups hitting "soft targets" on a regular or rotating basis. It would seem that strategically one of the better actions that could occur in taking a longtime held Keep is to flip all the Dolyak supply points feeding a Keep, while making them burn their supplies with a zerg. Soft targets also seem like a good place to learn both versus NPC and versus Player. Zergs, typically, are interested in the big score leaving smaller squads an opportunity to take each other on in maintaining supply runs or cutting them off. Instead, no matter what size group I am in on SoS, *typically*, not always, everyone is after the big score hitting hard targets while soft targets take a hit if they happen to get in the way. All of this to say, instruction is in the doing and sometimes doing means tagging along till you get things 'right'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 GAL runs about a 40-man sized zerg. The OP is asking about help for teaching roamers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oriens.5630 Posted March 12, 2018 Share Posted March 12, 2018 > @"Chaba.5410" said: > GAL runs about a 40-man sized zerg. The OP is asking about help for teaching roamers. ...and edited! Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiraldo.7954 Posted March 13, 2018 Share Posted March 13, 2018 > @"Strages.2950" said: > > @"Namer.9750" said: > > > @"Reverence.6915" said: > > > Most of our server are casual players. You can't change that kind of mindset that easily. There's no serious GvG/zerg busting style guilds to educate and show those players how fun it is when you get good at the game, rather than simply getting farmed. > > > > > > Trying to recruit on SoS for a more serious guild is like banging my head against a wall. Not easy. > > > > There were, tho. Both TBT and BMO fit that criteria. > > > > Well, y'all ran TBT off, so I suppose BMO has to carry the weight of SoS on their shoulders. Idk man, SoS NA has been terrible for the most part forever; all the good roamers are OCX/SEA. > > > > In the interests of helpfulness, I've found that quickly partying up with other roamers to direct them at a target is helpful. That's about as far as you can do, because most players aren't going to change their builds because some other random dude told them so. So pick out targets for them, maybe use a class that allows you to spike high value enemy targets like Scourges or Druids easily, etc. > > TBT is a serious fight guild? Give me a break, just because they advertise that on team chat to recruit doesn't mean they're any good. > All they did for the 2 months they were paired with BP was ask where the fights are and stare at them then run away. > > Where did those nerds move off to? Well they beat BOO and BAN decisively in 15s so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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