Scourge should be deleted

[Malediktus.9250]

It is not niche, epidemic is one of the most powerful skills in the game making many encounters much easier than probably intended. Especially if you stack necros the dmg goes through the roof.

[Shirlias.8104]

GW2 core spvp once again \o

[intox.6347]

> @"Rym.1469" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > @"Chilli.2976" said:

> > > all classes should be deleted, then we have balance ;).

> >

> > I would be pretty ok with going back to pre HoT for sure. delete all those elite specs from PvP and WvW

>

> Oh yes, 3-4 D/D eles per team rolling open palms across the keyboard, those were the good times indeed.

>

 

yeah exactly, always hear crap like "good old times..." but from what i remember in ....

spvp = d/d eles, turret engies, bunker guards, hambow warriors, minion tank necros

wvw = half of zerg staff guards, hammer shout wars, cele eles+veil slave and other plebs.

 

It was not better, it just changing .

 

Scourge is problem in lower pvp... coz its noob friendly skill spamer. Good in group play in wvw coz of aoe. Crap in pve.

I loved necro.... in hot reaper was nice addition.... scourge is abomination... easy pick for noobs to feel elite.

[Axl.8924]

The thing that makes> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> It is not niche, epidemic is one of the most powerful skills in the game making many encounters much easier than probably intended. Especially if you stack necros the dmg goes through the roof.

 

The thing that makes it niche, is as i said:Its good versus lots of enemies, and it won't secure a chance to bring someone.Also:Other classes have strong aoes with better support, so why bring a necro when you can bring a ele who can go weavrer for over 36k? or a mirage? Mirage has a lot of dps and probably a lot of support.Even chrono is still really high on the list.

 

Realistically speaking, it can be taken, but if you have the option of choosing lets say a casette player or a brand new sleek ipod, you are going to choose the ipod.Performance in1 or more jobs is a big deal, and scourge is supposed to be a major support class, but it got nerfed in support.

 

Take renegade for an example:Its good in large fights and small fights now, same as zeal and oh guess who as well:Weavers big surprise.

 

Even core engi has more dps than necro, thats how sad it is.on snow crows i think its core, 500 dps more than necros, and they are the lowest class after us.Every class is thousands, and at least holosmith is in the 33-34k range, so at least its new profession is succeeding.

 

Scourge on the other hand is like 29.224 and reaper is like 29.504.

 

Some of the people here who wanna get scourge deleted because sound like a buncha haters.

 

Yeah scourge is problematic, but by no means is it impossible to win in spvp, and it certainly isn't overpowered in pve.

 

The fact that necros are expected to be taken only for a ability that works in some levels with lots of adds is preposterous, and all because of spvp.

 

Necros are the lowest dps class in game, and i just showed proof

 

https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/

 

Every class has a high role except necros.Its one thing for 1 spec or 2 to have low dps, but a entire class? That is not ok.

Anyone who argues against this, is a biased class hater of necros, and won't listen to reason.

 

Also:Herald needs fixed in some way or another, so they aren't just taken for that one boss you kite, and are actually wanted.I don't know how because i lack the knowledge, but changes are needed for herald.

[Axl.8924]

It still doesn't answer the problem to single or possibly 2 necros.Having to have more than 1 class to do dps is a bad way to balance, and that was my point.

 

Also:The mirages killed it in 2 mins 10 sec.

 

All you prove is that stacking necros can be beneficial for dps.Your answer is basically:So? stack a class, thats the solution.Well what if your in a situation where your raid team doesn't want to stack? what if they play another class?

[Raizel.8175]

Can we also delete all the other OP-Specs in the game then like druid or holo or stuff like p/p-thief, spellbreaker, the list could go on?

[Math.5123]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> It still doesn't answer the problem to single or possibly 2 necros.Having to have more than 1 class to do dps is a bad way to balance, and that was my point.

>

> Also:The mirages killed it in 2 mins 10 sec.

>

> All you prove is that stacking necros can be beneficial for dps.Your answer is basically:So? stack a class, thats the solution.Well what if your in a situation where your raid team doesn't want to stack? what if they play another class?

 

Okay, I'll break it down for you.

 

PvP; one or more scourges, in both ranked and organized settings are almost mandatory in order to win.

 

WvW; scourges are dictating the Meta. Scourge decides which support classes are viable, and it's damage is un-paralelled.

 

PvE; casual PvE is so easy it could be done by any class. People have been low manning bosses since raids were released. Meaning necros for casual kills are viable, but not gamebreaking.

In speed running raids, necros are currently the way to go. Which means, high tier PvE requires necros.

 

So out of the three gamemodes, necros are required at high levels of play. While still remaining incredibly viable at the low-end as well.

[Rap Tiger.1257]

Scourge is easy to kill when attacking from a distance, if you die to scourge you may have two things wrong, you do not know how to play with the class or you are a born player to stay only in the PVE

[Avador.8934]

Just give all shade skills casting time, even a short one... I mean they can barrage you with conditions even when they are under heavy cc. This is the only thing that I believe should really change...

[Axl.8924]

He wants necros and scourges to turn into what reaper was, which is niche class.He is a hater.

 

Anyways Mirage and several others can get the job done with more dps and more support.

[Ioras Dagnir.3927]

Its not about the dps, in pvp necros are outshined by mirage, engi and other specs. The problem is the low cd insta aoe spam. Its just another playstyle that requires very minimal skill to use in comparison to other high damage specs that require much more precise execution. Scourge just has too much zone denial for PvP and a low risk high reward rotation so basic a toddler can face roll to plat.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Scourge is annoying to deal with, but consider:

 

* We call target on necros in general in PVP before anyone else.

* Scourges are easily frustrated by any projectile weapon.

* They're still horribly slow.

 

Agreed, their playstyle is basic, surprisingly effective and deadly for melee players, and will probably see additional nerfs in the future. But we -did- bully necro as pvp strategy for a long while simply because they were mechanically inferior and had no way to stop us until they had acquired LF. I see scourge as an answer to the people who just mindlessly '1' on anything that has a target above its head.

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"Rap Tiger.1257" said:

> Scourge is easy to kill when attacking from a distance, if you die to scourge you may have two things wrong, you do not know how to play with the class or you are a born player to stay only in the PVE

Which brings back the point that it hardcounters a whole playstyle

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"Rap Tiger.1257" said:

> > Scourge is easy to kill when attacking from a distance, if you die to scourge you may have two things wrong, you do not know how to play with the class or you are a born player to stay only in the PVE

> Which brings back the point that it hardcounters a whole playstyle

 

I mean... he's right.

 

This isn't a few people whining because their niche meta build is no longer effective. Scourge is superior to any build that requires you to be in melee range. While that is often not hard to have someone cover, it is still poor design to invalidate the majority of class weapons when dealing specifically with scourge, especially if their ranged weapons are slow, impractical, and inconvenient to use vs anything else.

[Abazigal.3679]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > @"Rap Tiger.1257" said:

> > > Scourge is easy to kill when attacking from a distance, if you die to scourge you may have two things wrong, you do not know how to play with the class or you are a born player to stay only in the PVE

> > Which brings back the point that it hardcounters a whole playstyle

>

> I mean... he's right.

>

> This isn't a few people whining because their niche meta build is no longer effective. Scourge is superior to any build that requires you to be in melee range. While that is often not hard to have someone cover, it is still poor design to invalidate the majority of class weapons when dealing specifically with scourge, especially if their ranged weapons are slow, impractical, and inconvenient to use vs anything else.

 

The problem isn't even concerning melee range, it's that it fits too well with other meta classes and that you consistently have to fight them off point.

A setup with 2 scourges a firebrand and a spellbreaker is really annoying and is hardly going to lose 500-100, assuming both teams are on same level

[Ragmon.6350]

Delete? Nah. Massive rework, yes.

[Axl.8924]

Only if:

 

Mesmers have their dps shaved off 90% and their boons nerfed and their mobility nerfed

Thieves can keep their mobility but have their dps and ccs nerfed by 99.999%

Guardians take massive nerfs to dps and sustain.

Eles take massive nerfs of dps in spvp to recompense of gutting of scourge with the nerfs

Same for warriors and rangers and revs.

 

[NotoriousNaru.1705]

Scourge dmg and boon rip has long been nerfed. They have massive tells on everything they do and they don't have the dmg to 100-0 anyone unlike other specs in the meta right now. This thread is ignorant and only appeals to those either new to the game or to pvp. If you're complaining about multiple scourges in a game of ranked or unranked, then thats another issue. On top of that, the next balance update includes several CD nerfs to scourge to further help people like OP to counter play something already so easily counterplayable.

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> Only if:

>

> Mesmers have their dps shaved off 90% and their boons nerfed and their mobility nerfed

> Thieves can keep their mobility but have their dps and ccs nerfed by 99.999%

> Guardians take massive nerfs to dps and sustain.

> Eles take massive nerfs of dps in spvp to recompense of gutting of scourge with the nerfs

> Same for warriors and rangers and revs.

>

 

I agree everything needs to be nerfed somehow. There are way too many OP abilities in this game and the time to kill is too fast.

 

> @"NotoriousNaru.1705" said:

> Scourge dmg and boon rip has long been nerfed. They have massive tells on everything they do and they don't have the dmg to 100-0 anyone unlike other specs in the meta right now. This thread is ignorant and only appeals to those either new to the game or to pvp. If you're complaining about multiple scourges in a game of ranked or unranked, then thats another issue. On top of that, the next balance update includes several CD nerfs to scourge to further help people like OP to counter play something already so easily counterplayable.

The tells are worthless and do nothing but giving you eye cancer and headaches. Especially in WvW where you suddenly have 20 scourges fighting at once.

[Axl.8924]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > Only if:

> >

> > Mesmers have their dps shaved off 90% and their boons nerfed and their mobility nerfed

> > Thieves can keep their mobility but have their dps and ccs nerfed by 99.999%

> > Guardians take massive nerfs to dps and sustain.

> > Eles take massive nerfs of dps in spvp to recompense of gutting of scourge with the nerfs

> > Same for warriors and rangers and revs.

> >

>

> I agree everything needs to be nerfed somehow. There are way too many OP abilities in this game and the time to kill is too fast.

>

> > @"NotoriousNaru.1705" said:

> > Scourge dmg and boon rip has long been nerfed. They have massive tells on everything they do and they don't have the dmg to 100-0 anyone unlike other specs in the meta right now. This thread is ignorant and only appeals to those either new to the game or to pvp. If you're complaining about multiple scourges in a game of ranked or unranked, then thats another issue. On top of that, the next balance update includes several CD nerfs to scourge to further help people like OP to counter play something already so easily counterplayable.

> The tells are worthless and do nothing but giving you eye cancer and headaches. Especially in WvW where you suddenly have 20 scourges fighting at once.

 

Oh so you'd rather necros be free kills and unable to kill anyone?

 

They are there because people are too dumb to not stand in the aoes.

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > Only if:

> > >

> > > Mesmers have their dps shaved off 90% and their boons nerfed and their mobility nerfed

> > > Thieves can keep their mobility but have their dps and ccs nerfed by 99.999%

> > > Guardians take massive nerfs to dps and sustain.

> > > Eles take massive nerfs of dps in spvp to recompense of gutting of scourge with the nerfs

> > > Same for warriors and rangers and revs.

> > >

> >

> > I agree everything needs to be nerfed somehow. There are way too many OP abilities in this game and the time to kill is too fast.

> >

> > > @"NotoriousNaru.1705" said:

> > > Scourge dmg and boon rip has long been nerfed. They have massive tells on everything they do and they don't have the dmg to 100-0 anyone unlike other specs in the meta right now. This thread is ignorant and only appeals to those either new to the game or to pvp. If you're complaining about multiple scourges in a game of ranked or unranked, then thats another issue. On top of that, the next balance update includes several CD nerfs to scourge to further help people like OP to counter play something already so easily counterplayable.

> > The tells are worthless and do nothing but giving you eye cancer and headaches. Especially in WvW where you suddenly have 20 scourges fighting at once.

>

> Oh so you'd rather necros be free kills and unable to kill anyone?

>

> They are there because people are too dumb to not stand in the aoes.

 

They are there because they are too powerful on these tiny AOE circles you need to cap and defend

[DeadlySynz.3471]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > Only if:

> > > >

> > > > Mesmers have their dps shaved off 90% and their boons nerfed and their mobility nerfed

> > > > Thieves can keep their mobility but have their dps and ccs nerfed by 99.999%

> > > > Guardians take massive nerfs to dps and sustain.

> > > > Eles take massive nerfs of dps in spvp to recompense of gutting of scourge with the nerfs

> > > > Same for warriors and rangers and revs.

> > > >

> > >

> > > I agree everything needs to be nerfed somehow. There are way too many OP abilities in this game and the time to kill is too fast.

> > >

> > > > @"NotoriousNaru.1705" said:

> > > > Scourge dmg and boon rip has long been nerfed. They have massive tells on everything they do and they don't have the dmg to 100-0 anyone unlike other specs in the meta right now. This thread is ignorant and only appeals to those either new to the game or to pvp. If you're complaining about multiple scourges in a game of ranked or unranked, then thats another issue. On top of that, the next balance update includes several CD nerfs to scourge to further help people like OP to counter play something already so easily counterplayable.

> > > The tells are worthless and do nothing but giving you eye cancer and headaches. Especially in WvW where you suddenly have 20 scourges fighting at once.

> >

> > Oh so you'd rather necros be free kills and unable to kill anyone?

> >

> > They are there because people are too dumb to not stand in the aoes.

>

> They are there because they are too powerful on these tiny AOE circles you need to cap and defend

 

Heaven forbid someone rolls a ranger and kills that scourge while they remain helpless with their shade on the capture point.

 

I know I know... "what rangers? they exist in this game? Bah, can't be seen on one of them.."

[Rufo.3716]

If anything should be deleted it's druids. This thread is nothing more than a bad player whining because they are to stupid to move out of a red circle.

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > > Only if:

> > > > >

> > > > > Mesmers have their dps shaved off 90% and their boons nerfed and their mobility nerfed

> > > > > Thieves can keep their mobility but have their dps and ccs nerfed by 99.999%

> > > > > Guardians take massive nerfs to dps and sustain.

> > > > > Eles take massive nerfs of dps in spvp to recompense of gutting of scourge with the nerfs

> > > > > Same for warriors and rangers and revs.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I agree everything needs to be nerfed somehow. There are way too many OP abilities in this game and the time to kill is too fast.

> > > >

> > > > > @"NotoriousNaru.1705" said:

> > > > > Scourge dmg and boon rip has long been nerfed. They have massive tells on everything they do and they don't have the dmg to 100-0 anyone unlike other specs in the meta right now. This thread is ignorant and only appeals to those either new to the game or to pvp. If you're complaining about multiple scourges in a game of ranked or unranked, then thats another issue. On top of that, the next balance update includes several CD nerfs to scourge to further help people like OP to counter play something already so easily counterplayable.

> > > > The tells are worthless and do nothing but giving you eye cancer and headaches. Especially in WvW where you suddenly have 20 scourges fighting at once.

> > >

> > > Oh so you'd rather necros be free kills and unable to kill anyone?

> > >

> > > They are there because people are too dumb to not stand in the aoes.

> >

> > They are there because they are too powerful on these tiny AOE circles you need to cap and defend

>

> Heaven forbid someone rolls a ranger and kills that scourge while they remain helpless with their shade on the capture point.

>

> I know I know... "what rangers? they exist in this game? Bah, can't be seen on one of them.."

It is like people do not even bother to read the topic. We already concluded that scourge hardcounters a whole playstyle (melee)

[Axl.8924]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > > > Only if:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Mesmers have their dps shaved off 90% and their boons nerfed and their mobility nerfed

> > > > > > Thieves can keep their mobility but have their dps and ccs nerfed by 99.999%

> > > > > > Guardians take massive nerfs to dps and sustain.

> > > > > > Eles take massive nerfs of dps in spvp to recompense of gutting of scourge with the nerfs

> > > > > > Same for warriors and rangers and revs.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I agree everything needs to be nerfed somehow. There are way too many OP abilities in this game and the time to kill is too fast.

> > > > >

> > > > > > @"NotoriousNaru.1705" said:

> > > > > > Scourge dmg and boon rip has long been nerfed. They have massive tells on everything they do and they don't have the dmg to 100-0 anyone unlike other specs in the meta right now. This thread is ignorant and only appeals to those either new to the game or to pvp. If you're complaining about multiple scourges in a game of ranked or unranked, then thats another issue. On top of that, the next balance update includes several CD nerfs to scourge to further help people like OP to counter play something already so easily counterplayable.

> > > > > The tells are worthless and do nothing but giving you eye cancer and headaches. Especially in WvW where you suddenly have 20 scourges fighting at once.

> > > >

> > > > Oh so you'd rather necros be free kills and unable to kill anyone?

> > > >

> > > > They are there because people are too dumb to not stand in the aoes.

> > >

> > > They are there because they are too powerful on these tiny AOE circles you need to cap and defend

> >

> > Heaven forbid someone rolls a ranger and kills that scourge while they remain helpless with their shade on the capture point.

> >

> > I know I know... "what rangers? they exist in this game? Bah, can't be seen on one of them.."

> It is like people do not even bother to read the topic. We already concluded that scourge hardcounters a whole playstyle (melee)

 

The problem is:Some people are making false claims like:SCourge has no hardcounters, when it does.I'm not even sure if some of hte ones making these claims here are bad players.

 

Yes its a issue that scourge has large area, yes its a issue the amount of boons, but nerfing it shouldn't be done because its very problematic:If you nerf boon corrupt, it also nerfs the ccs of scourge, and leaves them defenseless.Boon corrupt works as a really powerfull offensive and defensive tool.Adding cd won't change the fact it can still boon corrupt and annoys people, and nerfing it will gut the elite spec.