Story content and Repeatable Hearts

[Karnasis.6892]

I'm curious as to the decisions in past installments to force players to do all of the renown hearts to continue the story (I forget is LWS4 ep. 1 did this, but a good portion of LWS3 did). I understand if it was to show people the map and get them excited to be playing on it and to find little secrets, but I would rather finish the story and then go on to explore the new map at my own pace, however I dread every LWS episode now because it's Story -> New Map-> Renown Hearts -> Story. I just get stuck at a new map and decided to eventually force myself through it to get to the rest of the story.

 

I guess my question is: Is there plans in the future to shake up the pattern we're stuck in with LW Episodes (as shown above) to allow us to just go and do the story, and then allow us to explore the map and hearts and events at our own pace?

[LinseyMurdock.4165]

That is not a pattern we are stuck in. Only one episode in Season 3 or 4 requires all hearts completed as part of the golden path story. I'll break it down for you...

 

Season 3

Ep1 -> no hearts in this map

Ep2 -> heart completion not required, but does require a subset of actions done in the hearts

Ep3 -> requires some hearts but not all

Ep4 -> requires no hearts, but actions taken in the heart count towards turning the tides of the battle

Ep5 -> requires no hearts

Ep6 -> requires all hearts completed

 

Season 4

Ep1 -> requires 1 heart not all

Ep2 -> requires no hearts

 

While I disagree with your assertion that we are stuck in a pattern of requiring heart completion, I absolutely agree with you that it is not a pattern we SHOULD be stuck in. My guidance to the teams about requiring heart completion for golden path is as follows.

 

Hearts are not an ideal way for us to communication specific story moments and it often feels grindy to have to complete a heart as part of golden path. It is my preference that we generally don't do it. My preference is that we are threading story moments through the open world maps design so that they help to communicate the story of the map as well as move you around it so you can get a feel for the repeatable content of the episode that might keep you playing after the story is completed. It seems like it's actually the second part of that which you are opposed to, which is that the story is pushing you through the open world map. That is not a direction that I am looking to shift. I think it is important for the golden path story to integrate the open world map and that the open world map is part of the story we are telling.

[North.1438]

I thought this episode's integration of the story into the open world map was awesome! Having those unique puzzles to do in little nooks and crannies of the map was so cool to experience, and I am looking forward to seeing how you continue this awesome experience!

[Donari.5237]

I will say that if we get more pure-fun hearts like the Mag Hammers I will be much happier at having reasons to repeat. The other hearts in the map are fairly standard, and can feel sluggish to complete (and I'm not a heart hater, btw, I like most of them throughout Tyria), but that one rocks.

[Crunch Bars.4309]

I am no fan of having hearts as requirement for story. It's a sort of incentive to go out and explore further, and in the case with recent release, having hearts to be ample to achievements, then that's nice. I do however, think that more waypoints on map would be a good asset to aid in exploring and enjoying the map for what it is rather than being discouraged from wanting to travel near large mobs.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

I'm grateful for Ms Murdock's direction to the story teams to look for, erm, shall we say, less heart-felt ways to progress the story. That's a good direction.

 

I do also want the team to know that the _perception_ is different from the reality she outlined above, both in terms of story and map completion.

 

****

Here's my commentary on the same episodes:

 

> **Season 3**

> **Ep1:** no hearts in this map

Story requires participation in a really annoying event. Map completion was fun (even more fun now with mounts). The masteries helped contribute to how fun it was to get around.

 

> **Ep2:** heart completion not required, but does require a subset of actions done in the hearts

For all intents and purposes, hearts are required — the number of actions required for the story is close to what you need to complete the hearts. That makes it feel grindy and tedious both, when repeating the story.

 

Worse, the map itself involves some very grindy hearts. None of them are difficult; they just aren't very joyful the second time around.

 

> **Ep3:** requires some hearts but not all

Another map in which the story requires near-completion of the hearts to progress. It might not be technically true, but it amounts to close to the same thing.

 

Plus, the creation of the elixir gates story progress, one of the dailies, and isn't fun, not even the first time for me. Waiting for RNG drops from some of the tougher-foes on the map is painful. The Jormag and Quaggan area hearts are very dull.

 

Of course, the map is easily-farmed and the mastery has its uses (aside from NPCs getting in the way of re-lighting a torch).

 

> **Ep4:** requires no hearts, but actions taken in the heart count towards turning the tides of the battle

This is the map that completely killed my interest in running story more than once or completing the map multiple times (for fun). The amount of effort to progress the story slows down the pacing incredibly. It makes me feel as if I have little control over progress.

 

Worse, the hearts progress horribly slow, and sometimes depend on RNG (which fish is in a trap, whether other players have cleared the area, etc). For me, this might be the worst map in the game. The mastery is, of course, wonderfully useful in open world (and handy in fractals).

 

> **Ep5:** requires no hearts

Spiderman skill is wonderfully fun. Learning how to get around on this map (without mounts) was great. There are three hearts that progress naturally and one that feels undertuned (the mercenary area, where it feels as if you can do 3-4 events and still be only halfway done).

 

The story progression is reasonable. You can't entirely rush it, because you have to move around so much, but it feel natural, rather than forced or stilted.

 

> **Ep6:** requires all hearts completed

This would be horrible, story & hearts-wise, except for the neat trick to completing hearts quickly. That allows you to be faster the third time around, rather than slow. The mastery feels undertuned. I love the theme, but it's not very practical on a regular basis.

 

>

> **Season 4**

> **Ep1:** requires 1 heart not all

This is another story & map that feels grindy. Although hearts aren't required, it can feel as if you might as well be completing them.

 

The mastery is also annoying is several ways: First, it requires you to spend resources to fully unlock it; that seems completely contrary to how masteries work everywhere else in the game. Second, using the masteries is really tedious. You still have to wait for a meteor strike, still spam [1] to locate where to go, still dig with [2], and still remember to use [3] rather than [f] to maximize results. And finally, it's really just harvesting a node, made much more complex by the mastery. Masteries should make things easier, not be used to make previously-simple things more complicated.

 

The map itself isn't too difficult to navigate, although sorting out efficient routes isn't obvious.

I do like the new caches: a few easy to find, most out of the way, but none need a key.

 

> **Ep2:** requires no hearts

For a change, you can progress this story without feeling that you're also forced to complete hearts (whether or not they are specifically required). The puzzles can be done more quickly for alt toons and the integration of map, story, and navigation feels tighter than it has in ages.

 

I'd like to see more maps like Sandwept in the future, in terms of mechanics and alignment with story.

[Blude.6812]

I really don't mind having repeatable hearts and if a player wishes to replay them (for an award) but please do not tie access to the vendor to replaying a heart. Please end that.

 

[lynspottery.6529]

> @"Blude.6812" said:

> I really don't mind having repeatable hearts and if a player wishes to replay them (for an award) but please do not tie access to the vendor to replaying a heart. Please end that.

>

 

Definitely a good point. I sometimes am looking for a particular heart vendor but with the repeatable hearts, it makes it harder to just pop in to purchase what I want so I can move on to what I really want to do. I definitely am not in the mood to repeat the heart just to access the vendor....this is annoying.

 

However, I do sometimes repeat some hearts because I enjoyed it.

[Cragga the Eighty Third.60]

> @"Donari.5237" said:

> I will say that if we get more pure-fun hearts like the Mag Hammers I will be much happier at having reasons to repeat. The other hearts in the map are fairly standard, and can feel sluggish to complete (and I'm not a heart hater, btw, I like most of them throughout Tyria), but that one rocks.

 

As someone who has not figured out the hammers yet, let me say Thank You for almost always having a failsafe alternative and a variety of ways to complete hearts. (I go into the mag lab, mess with hammers, get nowhere, and take out my frustrations--and complete the heart--by slaughtering Inquest golems.)

[sweetrules.8359]

I had to explain how to use the hammers properly to a guildmate before she started to really enjoy that heart. She hated it before I explained and showed her how.

[Donari.5237]

> @"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said:

> > @"Donari.5237" said:

> > I will say that if we get more pure-fun hearts like the Mag Hammers I will be much happier at having reasons to repeat. The other hearts in the map are fairly standard, and can feel sluggish to complete (and I'm not a heart hater, btw, I like most of them throughout Tyria), but that one rocks.

>

> As someone who has not figured out the hammers yet, let me say Thank You for almost always having a failsafe alternative and a variety of ways to complete hearts. (I go into the mag lab, mess with hammers, get nowhere, and take out my frustrations--and complete the heart--by slaughtering Inquest golems.)

 

If you want to figure it out yourself I shall remain silent but if you want it explained I can PM you with the information (took me a while to figure it out too). It'll be a while before I'm at my computer again, though, it's very late at night now and I have just finished watching Critical Role and need to get -some- sleep.

[Cragga the Eighty Third.60]

> @"Donari.5237" said:

> > @"Cragga the Eighty Third.6015" said:

> > > @"Donari.5237" said:

> > > I will say that if we get more pure-fun hearts like the Mag Hammers I will be much happier at having reasons to repeat. The other hearts in the map are fairly standard, and can feel sluggish to complete (and I'm not a heart hater, btw, I like most of them throughout Tyria), but that one rocks.

> >

> > As someone who has not figured out the hammers yet, let me say Thank You for almost always having a failsafe alternative and a variety of ways to complete hearts. (I go into the mag lab, mess with hammers, get nowhere, and take out my frustrations--and complete the heart--by slaughtering Inquest golems.)

>

> If you want to figure it out yourself I shall remain silent but if you want it explained I can PM you with the information (took me a while to figure it out too). It'll be a while before I'm at my computer again, though, it's very late at night now and I have just finished watching Critical Role and need to get -some- sleep.

 

No, thanks, I have t figured out now. ^^