Kyhlo Treb Changes - Do you want this for WvW?

[Anthony.3207]

My opinion is the spvp treb and the wvw Trev are used for different reasons.

 

The spvp treb is used to attack and damage players while the wvw one is for immobile structures like walls and gates.

 

If you want the treb in wvw to be used as a player to player weapon like arrow carts - I could see this change do great success. You could however - make turtling easier. Since a wvw Trev has a knock back effect and vicous aoe damage and longer range - it could be a perfect defense weapon against players in wvw. Way better than arrow carts.

 

Have to test this and see how the meta changes. A treb with better accruacy for wvw can be deadly against attacking zergs. A aoe stun knock artillery weapon would be juicy for defense and turtling.

 

Right now trebs are used for seige in wvw. This change will make them strong as an artillery weapon versus players. Be careful. I personally like the change but I always love non player direct combat with seige and sniping stealth and cheating haha.

 

 

[LUST.7241]

If anything it should just show the ground-targeting when charging it up (so people have a better idea where it might go)...not change it so the entire process is point-and-click.

[hunkamania.7561]

Nah, this is just dumbing down the game. Believe it or not shooting a treb actually takes a bit of skill and making it ground targeted is silly. The AC's are ez pz to use and zombies can spam overpowered ac's all day.

[grave of hearts.7830]

Well we can have a test run week on wvw to see how it goes ,but since we have the dev attention on this need to point a few qol changes that should go with it.

1:Team visible marker on where the treb shot is going to land,least so the commander and other friendlies on site know where is the support fire landing.

2:Better clarity between enemy and friendly poison and water field.

3:Remove the charge up mechanic,increase the cooldown if necessary

4:Reduce the dmg done to other siege except trebuchets and catapults

5:An extra skill to put down a marker for allies to see would be really nice.

 

And thats all i want for xmas as far this one.

[Warlord.9074]

> @"hemmer.9784" said:

> Purists would probably say no, personally I'm on the fence. On one hand it would make them more easily usable by more people, which means you don't have to hope and pray for an experienced treb-user to be around. And certainly more practical to use in fights.

>

> On the other hand I'm not sure how well this would work for far shots - possibly behind walls/mountains - where you still don't see where you're shooting despite the changes. Would probably work like it does for arrow carts? Which would be suboptimal.

>

> I'm guessing a mode-switch to have benefits of both is not on the table?

 

Who uses trebs in fights, thats the problem with this game. Siege in the game should only dammage structures and other siege period. Leave the fighting to players. This would make the game 500% better. People who disagree with me are probably people that don't care about fights and just want to sit on ACs all day.

[Harry.3648]

> @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said:

> We recently changed trebuchets in Battle of Kyhlo. We made the treb ground targeted and pulled the camera way up high.

Yes 100% please add this to wvw

 

 

 

[Tiny Doom.4380]

Definitely not. If anything, as a few others have said, it would be better to remove the ground targeting from other siege engines. I support the inclusion and use of siege weapons in WvW 100% but I understand the frustration of some players with the way they are used. Siege should have a higher skill bar to use effectively, not move further towards automation. I would very much like to see a WvW where the skill sets of individual players mattered in all respects, from direct player-to-player fighting to use of siege weapons to scouting and callouts. The less that can be automated (or seen on an overlay) the better. Get people out there on the ground, spotting for trebbers, communicating range and direction. Don't let systems do it. This is a massively multiplayer game and WvW is a competetive/co-operative game mode within it. Everything should be geared towards teamwork, co-operation and the sharing of intelligence.

[Gorani.7205]

I do not think a ground targeting circle is what the WvW needs.

- it would eliminate the chance to throw boulders/cows over walls, hills and buildings. Those would block the line of sight after the change.

- being able to use that feature (e.g. to shoot at the Bay south wall cata spot from a treb on the wall or depot) makes good siege users in WvW and why take away their personal skill to contribute to the game?

 

If you want to improve the Treb (and perhaps other siege as well) get the camera position a bit higher and replace/add the charging bar with a percentile value.

[Aeolus.3615]

I cant imagine to see ground targets at 10k range..... to places like Gorani.7205 said, that would take the way how trebs work...

 

> @"LINKAZZATORE.8135" said:

> Can't we have a green arrow that extends while charging to see where the shot lands, instead of making it like the pvp treb?

 

Now that would be fine, and would be more friendly than make the aoe full auto everything to the shoot area.... I really hate ANet when they go full no effort gameplay....

 

@Ben Phongluangtham.1065, now if u do that to all mortar skills that would be fine.

[Strages.2950]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> I cant imagine to see ground targets at 10k range..... to places like Gorani.7205 said, that would take the way how trebs work...

>

> > @"LINKAZZATORE.8135" said:

> > Can't we have a green arrow that extends while charging to see where the shot lands, instead of making it like the pvp treb?

>

> Now that would be fine, and would be more friendly than make the aoe full auto everything to the shoot area.... I really hate ANet when they go full no effort gameplay....

>

> @Ben Phongluangtham.1065, now if u do that to all mortar skills that would be fine.

 

I actually dont like this, might as well be ground targetted for that matter. I do like the % idea though. Would be a lot easier for people to learn, and would make zeroing in on targets that much faster.

[Reflex.5286]

Leave it as a skill shot. The times our cats were saved inbetween bubbles because of misfires was the saving grace.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Strages.2950" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > I cant imagine to see ground targets at 10k range..... to places like Gorani.7205 said, that would take the way how trebs work...

> >

> > > @"LINKAZZATORE.8135" said:

> > > Can't we have a green arrow that extends while charging to see where the shot lands, instead of making it like the pvp treb?

> >

> > Now that would be fine, and would be more friendly than make the aoe full auto everything to the shoot area.... I really hate ANet when they go full no effort gameplay....

> >

> > @Ben Phongluangtham.1065, now if u do that to all mortar skills that would be fine.

>

> I actually dont like this, might as well be ground targetted for that matter. I do like the % idea though. Would be a lot easier for people to learn, and would make zeroing in on targets that much faster.

 

For mortars would not make much diference iMO, i can imagine mortars range being reduced for exchange of better control(they are already easy to manage and glitch on some place where u need to kill a proxy cata with a mortar right above it...), but yeah... on trebs would be really really really bad to awfull design idea...

[Strages.2950]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Strages.2950" said:

> > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > I cant imagine to see ground targets at 10k range..... to places like Gorani.7205 said, that would take the way how trebs work...

> > >

> > > > @"LINKAZZATORE.8135" said:

> > > > Can't we have a green arrow that extends while charging to see where the shot lands, instead of making it like the pvp treb?

> > >

> > > Now that would be fine, and would be more friendly than make the aoe full auto everything to the shoot area.... I really hate ANet when they go full no effort gameplay....

> > >

> > > @Ben Phongluangtham.1065, now if u do that to all mortar skills that would be fine.

> >

> > I actually dont like this, might as well be ground targetted for that matter. I do like the % idea though. Would be a lot easier for people to learn, and would make zeroing in on targets that much faster.

>

> For mortars would not make much diference iMO, i can imagine mortars range being reduced for exchange of better control, but yeah... on trebs would be really really really bad design idea...

 

Considering mortars are only built in particular locations that are fairly easy to destroy... I wouldn't cry about this. On trebs definitely a no-no.

 

 

[Silver.2076]

For God's sake! Don't change it! In so many situations it is decisive whether the first shot of the shooter is sitting or whether he has to shoot in first! The skill of the player decides whether his opponent makes it or not.

[NeroBoron.7285]

On the one side the new treb mechanic is easy to use which is definitivly good.

On the other side i think it's to easy and to precise on its shots. It doesn't require player knowledge/skill anymore.

 

If it comes for wvw i wouldn't like that someone who uses the trebuchet can use the view to track down people or zergs that easily.

 

What I really want for **wvw siege** are **autoattacks!** So we can use autoattack on a ram for example. Same goes for catapults and trebuchets, but for this to work we would need something like this or something to set the range. like skills to increase and decrease it by 5% so after adjusting it once we can set the autoattack to hit it at a certain range. It is just boring and annoying to stand infront a door with a ram and press 11111121111112111111. Golems are there way more chilled and one can lean back while doing autoattack.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

> @"NeroBoron.7285" said:

> On the one side the new treb mechanic is easy to use which is definitivly good.

> On the other side i think it's to easy and to precise on its shots. It doesn't require player knowledge/skill anymore.

>

> If it comes for wvw i wouldn't like that someone who uses the trebuchet can use the view to track down people or zergs that easily.

>

> What I really want for **wvw siege** are **autoattacks!** So we can use autoattack on a ram for example. Same goes for catapults and trebuchets, but for this to work we would need something like this or something to set the range. like skills to increase and decrease it by 5% so after adjusting it once we can set the autoattack to hit it at a certain range. It is just boring and annoying to stand infront a door with a ram and press 11111121111112111111. Golems are there way more chilled and one can lean back while doing autoattack.

 

I kinda like this idea, and I'm not sure but we have the rest of our skill bars not being used for the 5%, 10%, 15%, etc. auto attacks that could be used. Also my fear would also be that scouts would just sit on trebs viewing a larger portion of the map than they should actually be able to see. Maybe a try it out phase like we did with the cannon blueprints. One thing that I think getting a birds eye view that would be nice would be ACs, but then they'd definitely have to keep an eye on the line of site staying where it currently is.

[DeceiverX.8361]

Just because of LoS and far shots idk how this would go. The only thing I could think of would be something like a vector cast like Whirlwind attack for the aiming while still needing to hold the button down.

 

A (maybe) more simple fix might just be to have treb rotation speed scale with how long the button is held down. This allows for faster 180's when it'd be really needed but small tweaks would thus still be possible as necessary for the very furthest of shots. Some QoL is absolutely welcomed, though.

[mtpelion.4562]

I like the idea of having the ground target circle move out as you charge the shot so you can see where it will land when you release it. At a minimum, having a % charged would be a lifesaver.

[meri.9187]

> @"Kovu.7560" said:

Like those mobile cannons, and repair hammers.

>

>

Oh god I had just managed to finally forget those had existed.

 

[Arricson Krei.9560]

Give us options, not outright changes. Allow us to toggle between Charge and Ground-Targeted modes. Does it really matter if a siege weapon takes "skill"?

[Rym.1469]

I can't speak for WvW but the change to Khylo Treb is a great one, especially for newer players who didn't have a chance to get used to charging treb attacks properly in order to hit targets around the map. Operating treb was definitely a niche skill and with the map mechanic getting progressively less relevant as players got better and builds got stronger it was a time for a change. I think Stronghold treb could get this update along with Khylo one.

 

The new targeting is much easier to use, but Treb is still probably a bit too one-dimensional to see any serious use. Playing 4v5 and getting all shots dodged is a massive loss. So I would like to see an alternative "ammo" for Treb, like cows in WvW.

 

Some sort of support or node-control effect you can throw around the map. Be it massive sustain boost for allies, perhaps some area denial? Certainly not another damaging effect, not to mess with the treb shot projectile sound alert - I believe keeping it strictly for the current damage ammo makes mechanic more clear.

 

[Hexinx.1872]

> @"LINKAZZATORE.8135" said:

> Can't we have a green arrow that extends while charging to see where the shot lands, instead of making it like the pvp treb?

 

I was hoping it would be like the shot zoom feature in tiger woods golf

[Strages.2950]

> @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said:

> > @"NeroBoron.7285" said:

> > On the one side the new treb mechanic is easy to use which is definitivly good.

> > On the other side i think it's to easy and to precise on its shots. It doesn't require player knowledge/skill anymore.

> >

> > If it comes for wvw i wouldn't like that someone who uses the trebuchet can use the view to track down people or zergs that easily.

> >

> > What I really want for **wvw siege** are **autoattacks!** So we can use autoattack on a ram for example. Same goes for catapults and trebuchets, but for this to work we would need something like this or something to set the range. like skills to increase and decrease it by 5% so after adjusting it once we can set the autoattack to hit it at a certain range. It is just boring and annoying to stand infront a door with a ram and press 11111121111112111111. Golems are there way more chilled and one can lean back while doing autoattack.

>

> I kinda like this idea, and I'm not sure but we have the rest of our skill bars not being used for the 5%, 10%, 15%, etc. auto attacks that could be used. Also my fear would also be that scouts would just sit on trebs viewing a larger portion of the map than they should actually be able to see. Maybe a try it out phase like we did with the cannon blueprints. One thing that I think getting a birds eye view that would be nice would be ACs, but then they'd definitely have to keep an eye on the line of site staying where it currently is.

 

This is honestly probably asking too much for something fairly trivial (as much as I would love it). That said, one way to implement it would be to have a permanent power meter when you get on chargeable siege (cata/treb) and have a slider that limits the auto attack (default set at 100%). So you set the slider to say 60% then press 1, it charges up and shoots. If its a hit, it continues autoattacking. If its not a hit, you can press 1 again during cooldown to cancel the autoattack, move your slider to correct, then press 1 again, so on and so forth.

 

Only real problem is it makes it super easy to AFK farm.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

> @"Strages.2950" said:

> > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said:

> > > @"NeroBoron.7285" said:

> > > On the one side the new treb mechanic is easy to use which is definitivly good.

> > > On the other side i think it's to easy and to precise on its shots. It doesn't require player knowledge/skill anymore.

> > >

> > > If it comes for wvw i wouldn't like that someone who uses the trebuchet can use the view to track down people or zergs that easily.

> > >

> > > What I really want for **wvw siege** are **autoattacks!** So we can use autoattack on a ram for example. Same goes for catapults and trebuchets, but for this to work we would need something like this or something to set the range. like skills to increase and decrease it by 5% so after adjusting it once we can set the autoattack to hit it at a certain range. It is just boring and annoying to stand infront a door with a ram and press 11111121111112111111. Golems are there way more chilled and one can lean back while doing autoattack.

> >

> > I kinda like this idea, and I'm not sure but we have the rest of our skill bars not being used for the 5%, 10%, 15%, etc. auto attacks that could be used. Also my fear would also be that scouts would just sit on trebs viewing a larger portion of the map than they should actually be able to see. Maybe a try it out phase like we did with the cannon blueprints. One thing that I think getting a birds eye view that would be nice would be ACs, but then they'd definitely have to keep an eye on the line of site staying where it currently is.

>

> This is honestly probably asking too much for something fairly trivial (as much as I would love it). That said, one way to implement it would be to have a permanent power meter when you get on chargeable siege (cata/treb) and have a slider that limits the auto attack (default set at 100%). So you set the slider to say 60% then press 1, it charges up and shoots. If its a hit, it continues autoattacking. If its not a hit, you can press 1 again during cooldown to cancel the autoattack, move your slider to correct, then press 1 again, so on and so forth.

>

> Only real problem is it makes it super easy to AFK farm.

 

At the very least I'd love it if they could display the percentage it's charged up to so that if there's something that requires precision (20% is too low because hitting a rock but 25% will overshoot) I have a better chance to do it.

[Kethavel.1759]

Yes please change it! In fact I personally wish siege weapons were far more destructive to players for better keep defense. Maybe even buff the siege damage based on how outnumbered a defender is. Things like trebs should like one shot down a player unless they are like behind a ballista or something, don't mind me just voicing my wild tangent runaway thoughts.