[Suggestion] Remove any value/price from Ascended equipment

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > None of that takes ages

> >

> > That's the point.

> > And the break wouldn't that long to let dev forget what he was working on ( because he has just to modify a value)

>

> The point is it's a distraction. If you've watched folks working on enterprise code, you realize that they (and their managers) are confronted with dozens of such "easy" fixes/changes a day. If they accepted all of them, they wouldn't get a portion of the scheduled work completed.

>

> Imagine that answer questions was listed in your job description as 10% of your time. Easy, right? Now imagine that you're expected to manage that by answering a one-minute phone call every 10 minutes. At six calls per hour, that's still only 10% of your time, but it's hard to build any momentum towards any real work. It's not "hard;" it's distracting.

>

> And again, @"Shirlias.8104": I'm not against the change. I don't think it's the only way that ANet can help alleviate the issue and I'm not sure that I agree it's a high priority issue.

 

It's not a distraction.

You probably forget that they dedicate part of their time to little ( or even big ) QoL improvements, so this one would be just one of the very easy to deal with.

 

I can't say for sure, but I guess they don't have only 1 programmer.

And probably have part of the team ( or a sub team, who knows ) in charge for QoL stuff and minor fixes.

 

It's not that I don't want to recognize what you are saying, but to me you are overreacting a little ( in the sense that it won't necessarily be the big deal you expect ).

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> It's not a distraction.

> You probably forget that they dedicate part of their time to little ( or even big ) QoL improvements, so this one would be just one of the very easy to deal with.

Yes, and this is just **one** of the potential changes they might want to consider.

 

>

> I can't say for sure, but I guess they don't have only 1 programmer.

> And probably have part of the team ( or a sub team, who knows ) in charge for QoL stuff and minor fixes.

Of course.

 

>

> It's not that I don't want to recognize what you are saying, but to me you are overreacting a little ( in the sense that it won't necessarily be the big deal you expect ).

I'm not _expecting_ it to be anything. I'm explaining how it is that simple and easy and obvious changes or fixes don't get implemented.

 

You're expecting it to be "easy" to implement. I'm point out that it never is as easy as outsiders imagine. It's not "hard;" it's just not the only thing on their plate.

 

If/when this gets addressed, I'm sure it will work as you explained above (someone on a "mission" to address QoL and minor issues takes this on, along with a dozen other useful, "quick," changes). My point is that it's competing with a lot of other useful & quick changes, plus a large list of not-so-quick important changes, plus whatever else folks are have scheduled. The request isn't taken on in a vacuum where there's time for as many simple & easy changes as we can think up for the devs.

 

tl;dr the point is that it won't be the only low-priority, easy-to-change idea

(plus, as others have pointed out, it might not be as universally helpful as imagined)

 

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> tl;dr the point is that it won't be the only low-priority, easy-to-change idea

 

And there we do agree.

 

> (plus, as others have pointed out, it might not be as universally helpful as imagined)

 

There was indeed somebody against it, but the reason provvided were all but logic ( expecially if compared to the annoying stuff related ).

 

* People who would cry for 4s the time they happen to loot a ring ( probably fractalers, the ones who have the main rings drop chance ).

* People suggesting to use invisible bags ( as many of us do already, I can easily affirm, but even so due to the inventory issues like 2h>1h/1h, it's a temporary solution setup from us, like a permanent extractor to avoid the legendary sigils swap ).

* Buyback ( this shouldn't need to be commented, because it's obvious that if the player notice it during the trade he manage to get the item back ).

 

Shortly, I do agree that given all the possible little fix it's not granted that one specific would be chosen, but also since now it is clear that there are no true reasons to be against this proposal ( even though I am still here, waiting for one ).

[Khisanth.2948]

No, if anything is going to be done it would be better to implement some sort of junk-list/keep-list feature. Anything on the junk list will be sold by the sell junk button while anything in the keep list would be kept. The lists would override the defaults so if there was some junk items you want to keep around then that can be used to keep it. This would also solve the issue with the minor runes and sigils at the same time.

[TwilightSoul.9048]

I don't care at all, I have all my ascendet stuff either in my bank or in my invis bag and I honestly didn't know you can sell that stuff until now - so yeah sure, since it apparently is the case and obviously bothers some people I wouldn't mind the change but I also wouldn't mind if no change happened

[robertthebard.8150]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > Well, one reason to vote no might be the cost of changing up the system. We, the players, really have no idea what's involved, or why there is an item cost involved. It might use resources that could be spent on something more enjoyable. /shrug

>

> Should be as easy as changing a value in the item database. If that is more than 10 seconds of work per item Anet programmed something terribly wrong

 

So, just off the top of your head, how many items are in the game? 100? 50? Is it, warning, meme in coming, over 9000? Because it's not changing one set of data, it's changing that set of data on every item in the game that it applies to. As someone that was an avid world builder/scripter in NWN, I can tell you that a simple change can have unforeseen consequences, such as the time BW did a patch to fix a VFX file, and it broke every locked door in my module that had a custom script to relock it. The two are totally unconnected, but that VFX patch forced a manual reset of all those doors. Fixing the base script didn't fix the issue, I had to go in and manually adjust them. I only had a hundred or so doors, can you imagine the kind of havoc something like that could raise in an MMO? Put your stuff in an invisible bag. I'm not even to 400 Tailoring yet, and I can make a 15 slotter. It does wonders for inventory management, for stuff I don't want to either sell, or even see when I'm in a store interface.

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > Well, one reason to vote no might be the cost of changing up the system. We, the players, really have no idea what's involved, or why there is an item cost involved. It might use resources that could be spent on something more enjoyable. /shrug

> >

> > Should be as easy as changing a value in the item database. If that is more than 10 seconds of work per item Anet programmed something terribly wrong

>

> So, just off the top of your head, how many items are in the game? 100? 50? Is it, warning, meme in coming, over 9000? Because it's not changing one set of data, it's changing that set of data on every item in the game that it applies to. As someone that was an avid world builder/scripter in NWN, I can tell you that a simple change can have unforeseen consequences, such as the time BW did a patch to fix a VFX file, and it broke every locked door in my module that had a custom script to relock it. The two are totally unconnected, but that VFX patch forced a manual reset of all those doors. Fixing the base script didn't fix the issue, I had to go in and manually adjust them. I only had a hundred or so doors, can you imagine the kind of havoc something like that could raise in an MMO? Put your stuff in an invisible bag. I'm not even to 400 Tailoring yet, and I can make a 15 slotter. It does wonders for inventory management, for stuff I don't want to either sell, or even see when I'm in a store interface.

 

I can answer that. There are roughly 60701 items in the game currently. 1110 of them are ascended armors of which 432 are already not sellable. There are 1077 ascended weapons of which 359 are already not sellable. Data was extracted via the Item API.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

I agree that ascended gear should have no vendor value. I sold an ascended axe a few years ago and didn’t notice until the next time I wanted to use it. Invisible bags help a lot but it’s possible for weapons to be placed outside those bags when switching from one handed to two handed weapons

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > > Well, one reason to vote no might be the cost of changing up the system. We, the players, really have no idea what's involved, or why there is an item cost involved. It might use resources that could be spent on something more enjoyable. /shrug

> > >

> > > Should be as easy as changing a value in the item database. If that is more than 10 seconds of work per item Anet programmed something terribly wrong

> >

> > So, just off the top of your head, how many items are in the game? 100? 50? Is it, warning, meme in coming, over 9000? Because it's not changing one set of data, it's changing that set of data on every item in the game that it applies to. As someone that was an avid world builder/scripter in NWN, I can tell you that a simple change can have unforeseen consequences, such as the time BW did a patch to fix a VFX file, and it broke every locked door in my module that had a custom script to relock it. The two are totally unconnected, but that VFX patch forced a manual reset of all those doors. Fixing the base script didn't fix the issue, I had to go in and manually adjust them. I only had a hundred or so doors, can you imagine the kind of havoc something like that could raise in an MMO? Put your stuff in an invisible bag. I'm not even to 400 Tailoring yet, and I can make a 15 slotter. It does wonders for inventory management, for stuff I don't want to either sell, or even see when I'm in a store interface.

>

> I can answer that. There are roughly 60701 items in the game currently. 1110 of them are ascended armors of which 432 are already not sellable. There are 1077 ascended weapons of which 359 are already not sellable. Data was extracted via the Item API.

 

Thanks.

Could you also make an extraction for trinkets?

And also, do weapons/armors also include underwater equipment?

[Shagaliscious.6281]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> Unfortunately when you doubleclick a 2h to replace 2 one hand weapons only one is put inside the invisible bag.

>

> Any suggestion?

 

If the 2h weapon has an empty space to the right of it in your bag, both 1h weapons will go into the same bag. This only works if you open your inventory and swap the weapons, not if you open your hero menu and swap them there.

[Krypto.2069]

It doesn't matter to me either way. But...

 

One of the practices that I've employed that keeps me out of trouble is to ** **ALWAYS** ** Click the **BUY BACK TAB** after selling stuff to the vendor. This way I **DO** notice if I make a selling mistake. (Takes just a few seconds).

 

One quick visual scan and I verify that I didn't accidentally sell something _valuable_. (And stuff in the Buy Back tab doesn't stay in there forever - from what I'm seeing, if you switch maps, character swap, or relog the Buy Back tab resets.)

 

One prime example of where I always do this is after doing an AB meta and mass selling junk and green sigils/runes (which are also **JUNK** btw, Anet :lol:). I have caught a couple/few mistakes over the years and was able to immediately buy back my mistakenly sold items. :+1:

 

I do the above process so much, it's become a reflex. :smile:

[Malediktus.9250]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > > > Well, one reason to vote no might be the cost of changing up the system. We, the players, really have no idea what's involved, or why there is an item cost involved. It might use resources that could be spent on something more enjoyable. /shrug

> > > >

> > > > Should be as easy as changing a value in the item database. If that is more than 10 seconds of work per item Anet programmed something terribly wrong

> > >

> > > So, just off the top of your head, how many items are in the game? 100? 50? Is it, warning, meme in coming, over 9000? Because it's not changing one set of data, it's changing that set of data on every item in the game that it applies to. As someone that was an avid world builder/scripter in NWN, I can tell you that a simple change can have unforeseen consequences, such as the time BW did a patch to fix a VFX file, and it broke every locked door in my module that had a custom script to relock it. The two are totally unconnected, but that VFX patch forced a manual reset of all those doors. Fixing the base script didn't fix the issue, I had to go in and manually adjust them. I only had a hundred or so doors, can you imagine the kind of havoc something like that could raise in an MMO? Put your stuff in an invisible bag. I'm not even to 400 Tailoring yet, and I can make a 15 slotter. It does wonders for inventory management, for stuff I don't want to either sell, or even see when I'm in a store interface.

> >

> > I can answer that. There are roughly 60701 items in the game currently. 1110 of them are ascended armors of which 432 are already not sellable. There are 1077 ascended weapons of which 359 are already not sellable. Data was extracted via the Item API.

>

> Thanks.

> Could you also make an extraction for trinkets?

> And also, do weapons/armors also include underwater equipment?

Yes. Underwater is included.

 

There are 272 ascended trinkets, 74 of them are unsellable.

There are 171 ascended backpacks, 163 of them are unsellable

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > Well, one reason to vote no might be the cost of changing up the system. We, the players, really have no idea what's involved, or why there is an item cost involved. It might use resources that could be spent on something more enjoyable. /shrug

> >

> > Should be as easy as changing a value in the item database. If that is more than 10 seconds of work per item Anet programmed something terribly wrong

>

> That's not how things work in an Enterprise environment. Even if it's that easy to write a script to update all the values...

> * The developer has to stop whatever else they are doing to write and validate the script.

> * QA has to validate the script in two ways: that it does what it's supposed to do and that it doesn't affect something else.

> * The changes have to be considered and approved to go into the live build.

>

> None of that takes ages, but it's a series of distractions that add up. It's ultimately not "free" or cheap as it sounds to add something that takes only 10 seconds for a developer to code.

>

> By itself, those aren't reasons not to do something. They are reasons for making sure there's a good reason that the change is worth making.

 

I call BS on that, they were able to quickly change the time you have for several HoT adventures and add 30 seconds. I think Anet is not an enterprise as you imagine.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > > Well, one reason to vote no might be the cost of changing up the system. We, the players, really have no idea what's involved, or why there is an item cost involved. It might use resources that could be spent on something more enjoyable. /shrug

> > >

> > > Should be as easy as changing a value in the item database. If that is more than 10 seconds of work per item Anet programmed something terribly wrong

> >

> > That's not how things work in an Enterprise environment. Even if it's that easy to write a script to update all the values...

> > * The developer has to stop whatever else they are doing to write and validate the script.

> > * QA has to validate the script in two ways: that it does what it's supposed to do and that it doesn't affect something else.

> > * The changes have to be considered and approved to go into the live build.

> >

> > None of that takes ages, but it's a series of distractions that add up. It's ultimately not "free" or cheap as it sounds to add something that takes only 10 seconds for a developer to code.

> >

> > By itself, those aren't reasons not to do something. They are reasons for making sure there's a good reason that the change is worth making.

>

> I call BS on that, they were able to quickly change the time you have for several HoT adventures and add 30 seconds. I think Anet is not an enterprise as you imagine.

 

Are you sure it was quickly? Do you have a statement of when the project was started? Were there no suggestions about adjusting the difficulty of Heart of Thorn adventures until a week or two before the change went live?

[Imperadordf.2687]

Yes.

 

 

But now I wouldn’t be able to sell those useless rings. ?

[Sarge shot Grif.6450]

I'd like a system that lets us right click and check a box to lock an item so it absolutely cannot be sold, tp'd or destroyed/salvaged unless we manually right click the item and uncheck that box.

[Faaris.8013]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> > > > > Well, one reason to vote no might be the cost of changing up the system. We, the players, really have no idea what's involved, or why there is an item cost involved. It might use resources that could be spent on something more enjoyable. /shrug

> > > >

> > > > Should be as easy as changing a value in the item database. If that is more than 10 seconds of work per item Anet programmed something terribly wrong

> > >

> > > That's not how things work in an Enterprise environment. Even if it's that easy to write a script to update all the values...

> > > * The developer has to stop whatever else they are doing to write and validate the script.

> > > * QA has to validate the script in two ways: that it does what it's supposed to do and that it doesn't affect something else.

> > > * The changes have to be considered and approved to go into the live build.

> > >

> > > None of that takes ages, but it's a series of distractions that add up. It's ultimately not "free" or cheap as it sounds to add something that takes only 10 seconds for a developer to code.

> > >

> > > By itself, those aren't reasons not to do something. They are reasons for making sure there's a good reason that the change is worth making.

> >

> > I call BS on that, they were able to quickly change the time you have for several HoT adventures and add 30 seconds. I think Anet is not an enterprise as you imagine.

>

> Are you sure it was quickly? Do you have a statement of when the project was started? Were there no suggestions about adjusting the difficulty of Heart of Thorn adventures until a week or two before the change went live?

 

Someone posted the suggestion, giving statistics of silver and gold achievements, a dev replied and thanked him, and the changes where done with the patch 13 days later (6th March).

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/407347/#Comment_407347

 

I don't think it took full 13 days to make the changes, the patch was just planned 13 days later.

[Shagaliscious.6281]

> @"Sarge shot Grif.6450" said:

> I'd like a system that lets us right click and check a box to lock an item so it absolutely cannot be sold, tp'd or destroyed/salvaged unless we manually right click the item and uncheck that box.

 

This would be a very nice QOL change. I'd love to have an option in the options menu to add stuff to the "junk" section. So you could just click "sell junk" and have all the green and yellow sigils get sold at the same time.

[robertthebard.8150]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > None of that takes ages

>

> That's the point.

> And the break wouldn't that long to let dev forget what he was working on ( because he has just to modify a value).

>

> And among all the possibily QoL, this would be probably one of the faster one.

 

Except that, while they're messing around with stopping you from selling items by mistake, they're not fixing the Mount Maestrom bug with the Mastery being out in space, and unable to be interacted with. There were 10 people there last night when I was there that were adversely affected by that, and it blocks progression, as opposed to "oops, I have to buy that back". It's an extreme waste of time when you stop to consider that a method to prevent accidental sales is already in game, but you don't want to use it?

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > None of that takes ages

> >

> > That's the point.

> > And the break wouldn't that long to let dev forget what he was working on ( because he has just to modify a value).

> >

> > And among all the possibily QoL, this would be probably one of the faster one.

>

> Except that, while they're messing around with stopping you from selling items by mistake, they're not fixing the Mount Maestrom bug with the Mastery being out in space, and unable to be interacted with. There were 10 people there last night when I was there that were adversely affected by that, and it blocks progression, as opposed to "oops, I have to buy that back". It's an extreme waste of time when you stop to consider that a method to prevent accidental sales is already in game, but you don't want to use it?

 

We can easily agree that there are priorities.

Bugs have the priority over QoL modifies.

[robertthebard.8150]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > > None of that takes ages

> > >

> > > That's the point.

> > > And the break wouldn't that long to let dev forget what he was working on ( because he has just to modify a value).

> > >

> > > And among all the possibily QoL, this would be probably one of the faster one.

> >

> > Except that, while they're messing around with stopping you from selling items by mistake, they're not fixing the Mount Maestrom bug with the Mastery being out in space, and unable to be interacted with. There were 10 people there last night when I was there that were adversely affected by that, and it blocks progression, as opposed to "oops, I have to buy that back". It's an extreme waste of time when you stop to consider that a method to prevent accidental sales is already in game, but you don't want to use it?

>

> We can easily agree that there are priorities.

> Bugs have the priority over QoL modifies.

 

Indeed, one of the guys at the Mastery said it had been like that for weeks? I'd say that that should be one of the top bugs looked into. I know I submitted my report and a screenshot. Stuff like this thread can be dealt with by the player, in game, for a very reasonable amount of in game currency, it should be at the bottom of someone's "to do" list, since they've already incorporated a method to prevent accidental sales of items.

[Pifil.5193]

> @"robertthebard.8150" said:

> > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > None of that takes ages

> >

> > That's the point.

> > And the break wouldn't that long to let dev forget what he was working on ( because he has just to modify a value).

> >

> > And among all the possibily QoL, this would be probably one of the faster one.

>

> Except that, while they're messing around with stopping you from selling items by mistake, they're not fixing the Mount Maestrom bug with the Mastery being out in space, and unable to be interacted with. There were 10 people there last night when I was there that were adversely affected by that, and it blocks progression, as opposed to "oops, I have to buy that back". It's an extreme waste of time when you stop to consider that a method to prevent accidental sales is already in game, but you don't want to use it?

 

There are a number of developers in ArenaNet, they can't all be working on the same defect. In general it's impractical for more than one or two developers to be working on a defect.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

We seem to have digressed far from the OP's suggestion, which is simple: prevent the accidental vendoring of ascended gear by removing its vendor value.

**I support the goal.**

 

I don't agree that this is the only solution and there's at least one downside, albeit minor (some people do choose to sell ascended gear, at least rings). And I think there are other, higher priority QoL issues that the devs should tackle first.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Are we sure that setting the value to zero removes the ability to sell the item? Often, what seems simple to players is not as simple to enact in the game code.

[Pifil.5193]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> Are we sure that setting the value to zero removes the ability to sell the item? Often, what seems simple to players is not as simple to enact in the game code.

 

There's a _NoSell_ flag on items that, when set to true, means it can't be sold to vendors.