Wonder why some people never WVW

[JaddynnStarr.5201]

its not fun cuz its been relegated to a simple zerg capture the flag.... and recapture the same flag you just took 2 hours ago... and then again in 2 more hours.....I really don't understand how people do it solely as their only game experience here...

[Crossaber.8934]

> @"JaddynnStarr.5201" said:

> its not fun cuz its been relegated to a simple zerg capture the flag.... and recapture the same flag you just took 2 hours ago... and then again in 2 more hours.....I really don't understand how people do it solely as their only game experience here...

 

I could say it is the same with pve encounter. But wvw encounter got millions different go wrong situations during a capture, and sometimes very epic turning table fights exist.

 

Resistance during capture that you will never imagine, or creative way to win a fight which never exist in pve etc.

 

I did win out numbered fight alone vs much skillful foe by using magebane tether to pull the strongest foe down a cliff, his 2 allis followed the jump so desired to kill me, as a result i glide away and 3 dead players on the ground. Can you pull a raid boss off a cliff and kill him? Not at all.

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Crossaber.8934" said:

> > @"JaddynnStarr.5201" said:

> > its not fun cuz its been relegated to a simple zerg capture the flag.... and recapture the same flag you just took 2 hours ago... and then again in 2 more hours.....I really don't understand how people do it solely as their only game experience here...

>

> I could say it is the same with pve encounter. But wvw encounter got millions different go wrong situations during a capture, and sometimes very epic turning table fights exist.

>

> Resistance during capture that you will never imagine, or creative way to win a fight which never exist in pve etc.

>

> I did win out numbered fight alone vs much skillful foe by using magebane tether to pull the strongest foe down a cliff, his 2 allis followed the jump so desired to kill me, as a result i glide away and 3 dead players on the ground. Can you pull a raid boss off a cliff and kill him? Not at all.

 

But.. but... mechanics.....

[Ferus.3165]

> @"Loosmaster.8263" said:

> One thing that can be done to solve some of the issue is allowing only core specs in WvW.

 

that would be an option, but only if anet would nerf all core specs back to pre HoT status. That way all the powercreep that happened would disappear and the classes were quite balanced back then. And anet would have to nerf revenant in wvw accordingly.

 

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

>They say "Mesmer are broken"

 

well if they say that mesmers are broken atm they are right.

[Musty.3148]

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

>Is it maddening when someone kills me? Yes, but many times I know it was a mistake on my part and that just motivates me more to improve.

>

 

This separates you from almost all of the new players coming into WvW. Self reflection and the ability to see that many times failures are your fault not the fault of the other player or system itself is quite rare.

 

I see it on these boards every single day, "XXX killed me, nerf it!" without thinking for one second that THEY are the one that played poorly, or didn't position well, didn't know what the other player was doing and counter it, etc. :)

 

[Randulf.7614]

I don't find it esp interesting or fun. Too much wandering around and then when you join a zerg, skills are largely meaningless anyway.

 

Whilst I agree the wvw skill split was a good thing overall, that will largely kill off my desire to play wvw now, since I am not going to invest time in working out how each individual skill works for a diff game mode. Takes me long enough to memorise my pve builds as it is

[Cragga the Eighty Third.60]

I play sometimes (mostly when I want a Gift of Battle) and find it sort of fun, but when I am away, I feel no desire to go back.

 

Option 1: Follow a zerg and get good rewards while being bored out of my skull.

Option 2: Roam and take out tiny outposts for a trickle of reward points. Back off long enough for the enemy roamers to take them back. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat. Broken up now and then by a fight with other roamer(s) or taking back one of the ogre/hylek/dredge lairs.

[Sylosi.6503]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> The number one reason people don't play competitive game modes is that the learning curve involves getting your butt handed to you until you get it right. This runs contrary to the main reason a large number of people play video games in the first place, to live out a power fantasy.

> They will find a number of reasons to cloak their displeasure with the experience. They will blame it on the balance, the rules, other players doing "unfair" things (ect) but at the root they don't want to experience any form of loss or breaking of their fantasy that they are an unstoppable force.

 

I think that is a bit if an excuse, the reality is as a PvP mode WvW simply isn't very good, you talk about it being "competitive", yet competitively it is a joke, the balance is beyond terrible (in pretty much every aspect), which is why I know people who won't touch WvW with a 10 foot barge pole, yet play games like CS:GO, Starcraft, etc which are vastly more competitve, more skilled, etc than WvW.

 

I'd say you've actually got it the wrong way round, WvW is a type of PvP that appeals to noncompetitive players, who want a shallow learning curve (I mean compare how face roll easy it is to be vaguely competent on a necro in a zerg with being vaguely competent at 1v1 in Starcraft 2), WvW is one of the least competitive, lowest skilled, most casual, mindless forms of PvP you can find in a video game, it is actually ideal for PvE players , just join a zerg, have a commander do much of the thinking for you, dying is largely an anonymous experience, etc.

[Cuddy.6247]

> @"FASTCAR.7831" said:

> WvW is the most fun in this game.

 

Lol. It takes too long to reap rewards, reward track progress is slow, a larger than optimal portion the community are lonely trolls who stroke their epeen at blocking people from getting their dailies. WvW and PvP are both incredibly toxic by now. They had an appeal 5 years ago, now they're just a novelty service. If they added reward tracks to PvE the population would plummet overnight.

[Cuddy.6247]

> @"Sylosi.6503" said:

> > @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > The number one reason people don't play competitive game modes is that the learning curve involves getting your butt handed to you until you get it right. This runs contrary to the main reason a large number of people play video games in the first place, to live out a power fantasy.

> > They will find a number of reasons to cloak their displeasure with the experience. They will blame it on the balance, the rules, other players doing "unfair" things (ect) but at the root they don't want to experience any form of loss or breaking of their fantasy that they are an unstoppable force.

>

> I think that is a bit if an excuse, the reality is as a PvP mode WvW simply isn't very good, you talk about it being "competitive", yet competitively it is a joke, the balance is beyond terrible (in pretty much every aspect), which is why I know people who won't touch WvW with a 10 foot barge pole, yet play games like CS:GO, Starcraft, etc which are vastly more competitve, more skilled, etc than WvW.

>

> I'd say you've actually got it the wrong way round, WvW is a type of PvP that appeals to noncompetitive players, who want a shallow learning curve (I mean compare how face roll easy it is to be vaguely competent on a necro in a zerg with being vaguely competent at 1v1 in Starcraft 2), WvW is one of the least competitive, lowest skilled, most casual, mindless forms of PvP you can find in a video game, it is actually ideal for PvE players , just join a zerg, have a commander do much of the thinking for you, dying is largely an anonymous experience, etc.

 

Totally. I'm not shy to competitive games. I play a lot of various shooters and fighters...Super Smash Bros is still my fav game of all time. But there's something about PvP and WvW that just throw me off. It's very cookie cutter, things either work great or don't work at all - there's not really a middle ground. Matchmaking luck seems way off.

 

WvW and PvP are just...not good? I don't know all of the nuances to really start shooting out answers left and right, but I don't look at GW2 for a competitive experience.

[Grim West.3194]

> @"FASTCAR.7831" said:

> WvW is the most fun in this game.

> So many ONLY pvE.

> Wonder why.

 

A lot of pve players just don't want to deal with the toxic avengers that infest all games that have PvP modes. There is a certain segment of humanity that loses their humanity when they are anonymous (cowards). They aren't fun to be around and they keep many pve players from joining in.

 

ANET did a pretty good job with WvW by making it harder for the toxic jerks to be jerks to other players. But for most pve players who don't pvp / wvw that ship has sailed and they won't try again.

[mindcircus.1506]

> @"Grim West.3194" said:

> > @"FASTCAR.7831" said:

> > WvW is the most fun in this game.

> > So many ONLY pvE.

> > Wonder why.

>

> A lot of pve players just don't want to deal with the toxic avengers that infest all games that have PvP modes. There is a certain segment of humanity that loses their humanity when they are anonymous (cowards). They aren't fun to be around and they keep many pve players from joining in.

>

> ANET did a pretty good job with WvW by making it harder for the toxic jerks to be jerks to other players. But for most pve players who don't pvp / wvw that ship has sailed and they won't try again.

 

You can pretend that PvE is some kind of safe zone and ignore commanders screaming at people to get off maps they intend to meta on.

You can act like the open racism and homophobia in map chat doesn't exist.

You can say efficiency farmers don't launch huge rants about people just doing events because they are not in an order that gets them an extra 20silver an hour.

You can tell me that no one has ever trained aggro on you get to get their own winterberries faster.

You can ignore then entire PuG raid scene as if it doesn't exist at all.

You could even post about how nice people were when Dungeons were the main endgame.

 

But that wouldn't be the reality.

 

PvE is by far the most toxic game mode.

[Iozeph.5617]

> @"FASTCAR.7831" said:

> WvW is the most fun in this game.

> So many ONLY pvE.

> Wonder why.

> Must be a reason many new games are no pvE at all, including Camelot Unchained

>

> Wish EB was bigger/more to do. Some change after 5+ years

> A catacomb area would be nice.DAOC had that. Was crazy fun

>

Because having his game fail once and having to sell it off to his new EA overlords wasn't enough for Marc Jacobs. Now he wants to do it again but with crowd funding for CU.

 

Even though it pioneered most of the mechanics we have in WvW, DAoC's RvR was just latency dependent and rife with class imblances. It was fun if you were camping a milegate or a border keep entrance with a vendo zerker, or even shadowblade for a short time, who had an enhancement shaman strapped to their hip for endless endurance and DDDDDDDDDDOUBLE FFFFFROST!!!!111 Or a Lurikeen Mana Enchanter dropping cheese bombs in the middle of an enemy blob or the lord room in a tower where you hit everything in the room but were so small they couldn't even target you. Or if you were part of a stealth pack with buffbots back at the portal keep which made you an effective two to five levels higher than the people without stealth you were curbstomping -even if they tried to leave the keep to reach whatever target they were after in equal numbers to yours because stealth was never a balanced mechanic in any of the games it's been offered in.

 

Let's not forget Trials of Atlantis which made it mandatory to play PVE, to roll against everyone in the battle group for a single drop from a slow spawning named creature, but then to grind for days to get that artifact leveled if they managed to win it(sometimes only at day or night because some items only gained experience during those in game times) in order to get and keep any sort of an edge in RvR. So good and balanced that those who weren't part of a nightly zerg with a radar exploiting driver for fights in Emain or who didn't have the backing of a newly formed raiding guild gave up and leveled lowbies and permanently staid in the lower level battlegrounds rather than leveling further to fifty.

 

Competitive game modes such as WvW and RvR only work so long as the field is balanced. Gulling players in by saying it is then allowing for power creep through multiple expansions so that certain professions/mechanics become obvious faceroll and other professions that aren't capable of exploiting those mechanics are left in the dust might keep some of them coming back if they're willing to reroll to the current meta. For the rest it just drives them away. Coming back and then telling players to quit whingeing because the game's professions aren't balanced around one on one dueling is just a further insult.

 

More, the lie is put to them when they have to consolidate server populations, remove servers and repatriate characters to them, or do away with servers altogether to hide their flagging subscribership and maintain the fiction that all is well. Every problem that ever plagued DAoC's RvR from stealth abuse, to condition/mechanic abuse, to class imbalance, gear imbalance, to third party hacking and blobism is alive and well in WvW and to a lesser extent in structured PvP as well.

 

That's why so many games keep coming out as RvR, PvP, WvW only- they're hoping to get a piece of that revenue pie due to high churn/turnover in the player bases when they try one, wring it out for all it's worth before they become savvy to exploits and cheats, and then bail for the next big thing, rinse, repeat etc. They licence an engine, don't have to spend dev dollars or man hours to create an overly deep mythos or narrative. Just a bunch of arena spaces for the dregs of gaming to let their IDs out to play. Unfortunately what they often find is that it doesn't matter if you become a big fish in the relatively small pond of an online competitive game because inevitably the waters become fouled, middle of the road casuals find there's no chnce of advancement without making the game a second or primary job, they give up hope and begin leaving. Once the bad word of mouth and hemorrhaging gain critical mass it continues til the scum of a once-healthy community is all that's left and that isn't enough to sustain the model.

 

We're seeing it now with GW2 which is why they've been hurrying lately to try and stanch that bleeding with hatchet surgery profession nerfs and balance patches. Probably too little too late so enjoy it while it's here. Or if you happen to play an Engineer, your heart's set on that, and rerolling doesn't suit you - take your screen shots now, collect those email addresses, say your goodbyes, and begin searching for that newer, better game.

[Curunen.8729]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"Grim West.3194" said:

> > > @"FASTCAR.7831" said:

> > > WvW is the most fun in this game.

> > > So many ONLY pvE.

> > > Wonder why.

> >

> > A lot of pve players just don't want to deal with the toxic avengers that infest all games that have PvP modes. There is a certain segment of humanity that loses their humanity when they are anonymous (cowards). They aren't fun to be around and they keep many pve players from joining in.

> >

> > ANET did a pretty good job with WvW by making it harder for the toxic jerks to be jerks to other players. But for most pve players who don't pvp / wvw that ship has sailed and they won't try again.

>

> You can pretend that PvE is some kind of safe zone and ignore commanders screaming at people to get off maps they intend to meta on.

> You can act like the open racism and homophobia in map chat doesn't exist.

> You can say efficiency farmers don't launch huge rants about people just doing events because they are not in an order that gets them an extra 20silver an hour.

> You can tell me that no one has ever trained aggro on you get to get their own winterberries faster.

> You can ignore then entire PuG raid scene as if it doesn't exist at all.

> You could even post about how nice people were when Dungeons were the main endgame.

>

> But that wouldn't be the reality.

>

> PvE is by far the most toxic game mode.

 

This 100%.

 

PvE elitism/toxicity > wvw/pvp toxicity.

 

Most wvw whispers are so off the mark that they're almost laughable - and it's really easy to block after laughing at the first line, or having some banter. As for corpse jumping/etc - can be easily ignored in those rare occasions, especially if the fight was biased in the opponent's favour from the outset, so knowing you were at a disadvantage anyway makes it seem even more laughable/ridiculous.

 

Sure competitive pvp isn't nice - in my opinion it used to be nicer in the past (sure there was salt but there was also a lot of good banter and respect) whereas it has truly devolved into such a mess such that I don't enjoy it anymore.

[Grim West.3194]

> @"mindcircus.1506" said:

> > @"Grim West.3194" said:

> > > @"FASTCAR.7831" said:

> > > WvW is the most fun in this game.

> > > So many ONLY pvE.

> > > Wonder why.

> >

> > A lot of pve players just don't want to deal with the toxic avengers that infest all games that have PvP modes. There is a certain segment of humanity that loses their humanity when they are anonymous (cowards). They aren't fun to be around and they keep many pve players from joining in.

> >

> > ANET did a pretty good job with WvW by making it harder for the toxic jerks to be jerks to other players. But for most pve players who don't pvp / wvw that ship has sailed and they won't try again.

>

> You can pretend that PvE is some kind of safe zone and ignore commanders screaming at people to get off maps they intend to meta on.

> You can act like the open racism and homophobia in map chat doesn't exist.

> You can say efficiency farmers don't launch huge rants about people just doing events because they are not in an order that gets them an extra 20silver an hour.

> You can tell me that no one has ever trained aggro on you get to get their own winterberries faster.

> You can ignore then entire PuG raid scene as if it doesn't exist at all.

> You could even post about how nice people were when Dungeons were the main endgame.

>

> But that wouldn't be the reality.

>

> PvE is by far the most toxic game mode.

 

I was explaining the mindset of players who refuse to PvP. Your analysis may be correct but that wont change a PvE players mind. They only see the toxicity of the anonymous cowards in PvP. As long as that exists they will never join us in WvW.

 

LoL, Overwatch, etc have spent millions trying to deal with toxic players, and for good reason. Anonymous cowards hurt the bottom line of games that are only pvp based. Ignoring the problem or saying "but they do it worse" is not an answer, it's just another excuse that perpetuates the problem.

 

Everyone who is toxic to other players (in PvP or PvE) is a being short sighted, for they are only hurting the game mode they supposedly enjoy.

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

Because the balance is trash, making it SO tedious and boring to WvW. I should know. I only play WvW and i have pretty much given up playing the game altogether, hoping that the Devs will at least pretend they want the game to be balanced. Though, on the plus side. All the rboken cheese builds and specs will be gutted, ready for the next set of P2W specs to be released that will make the power creep go higher and higher.

[Cuddy.6247]

> @"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:

> Because the balance is trash, making it SO tedious and boring to WvW. I should know. I only play WvW and i have pretty much given up playing the game altogether, hoping that the Devs will at least pretend they want the game to be balanced. Though, on the plus side. All the rboken cheese builds and specs will be gutted, ready for the next set of P2W specs to be released that will make the power creep go higher and higher.

 

I'm hoping that the server restructure helps a bit in the game. Tonight I got on around 2 hours ago. Didn't even reach max participation because enemies outnumbered us so heavily. I had to take a tower alone for the daily.

 

But you know. Fort Aspenwood is "full."

 

WvW is a joke of a game mode. Anyone who thinks it's fun needs a psych eval.

[crepuscular.9047]

because WvW is a sandbox, your experience of WvW is completely driven by players from your opposing teams and your own team.

 

I only go in to gind for Gift of Battle, the scenarios i often find myself in

 

1. out squad is smashing the others squads, join in the battles until squad lead decides to take a break

2. evenly matched squad battles happen, join in the battles until squad lead decides to take a break

3. our squads getting smashed, escort dolyaks for hours

4. barely anyone on my sever, escort dolyaks for hours

 

Mist seems pretty empty these days... then again tracks fill up slower, so what's the point going there?

[crepuscular.9047]

because WvW is a sandbox, your experience of WvW is completely driven by players from your opposing teams and your own team.

 

I only go in to gind for Gift of Battle, the scenarios i often find myself in

 

1. out squad is smashing the others squads, join in the battles until squad lead decides to take a break

2. evenly matched squad battles happen, join in the battles until squad lead decides to take a break

3. our squads getting smashed, escort dolyaks for hours

4. barely anyone on my sever, escort dolyaks for hours

 

Mist seems pretty empty these days... then again tracks fill up slower in Mist, so what's the point going there?

[XenesisII.1540]

> @"Cuddy.6247" said:

> I'm hoping that the server restructure helps a bit in the game. Tonight I got on around 2 hours ago. Didn't even reach max participation because enemies outnumbered us so heavily. I had to take a tower alone for the daily.

>

> But you know. Fort Aspenwood is "full."

>

> WvW is a joke of a game mode. Anyone who thinks it's fun needs a psych eval.

 

FA is currently Very High not Full.

 

There was a lot of good fights on ebg between all 3 sides around durios for a good two hours tonight. The new system should help move some people around for better coverage balance.

[Nuka Cola.8520]

Because wvw has no purpose. People play stuff to see a progression and earn money to buy stuff they want. You get nothing in wvw but "i play for fun", and its not very fun almost six years after release. wvw is stale, and the reward system is laughably pathetic. getting chests with 1-2 greens inside is not a reward but a waste of inventory space. I don't know how those devs didn't get it yet.

[Cuddy.6247]

> @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> > @"Cuddy.6247" said:

> > I'm hoping that the server restructure helps a bit in the game. Tonight I got on around 2 hours ago. Didn't even reach max participation because enemies outnumbered us so heavily. I had to take a tower alone for the daily.

> >

> > But you know. Fort Aspenwood is "full."

> >

> > WvW is a joke of a game mode. Anyone who thinks it's fun needs a psych eval.

>

> FA is currently Very High not Full.

>

> There was a lot of good fights on ebg between all 3 sides around durios for a good two hours tonight. The new system should help move some people around for better coverage balance.

 

"Good" fights? It was everyone being holed up in a tower surrounded by aoes and banners. Either fought on the commander and died or had an arrow cart and made some progress. It was a joke, this entire game mode is just one giant joke. The day ANet finally finds the sense to add Gift of Battle to PvE somehow is the day this game mode finally dies.

[SkyShroud.2865]

Why peopel don't wvw.....same reason why maple story was a huge sucess

[Strider Pj.2193]

> @"Cuddy.6247" said:

> > @"XenesisII.1540" said:

> > > @"Cuddy.6247" said:

> > > I'm hoping that the server restructure helps a bit in the game. Tonight I got on around 2 hours ago. Didn't even reach max participation because enemies outnumbered us so heavily. I had to take a tower alone for the daily.

> > >

> > > But you know. Fort Aspenwood is "full."

> > >

> > > WvW is a joke of a game mode. Anyone who thinks it's fun needs a psych eval.

> >

> > FA is currently Very High not Full.

> >

> > There was a lot of good fights on ebg between all 3 sides around durios for a good two hours tonight. The new system should help move some people around for better coverage balance.

>

> "Good" fights? It was everyone being holed up in a tower surrounded by aoes and banners. Either fought on the commander and died or had an arrow cart and made some progress. It was a joke, this entire game mode is just one giant joke. The day ANet finally finds the sense to add Gift of Battle to PvE somehow is the day this game mode finally dies.

 

And there it is... The Gift Of Battle...

 

Because the 'battles' against NPCs is so engaging.

 

Oh that's right.... it's about the mechanics....,,

[trueanimus.4085]

> @"Sovereign.1093" said:

> because preference =)

 

My wife doesnt play wvw simply becuase you have to follow a group ... ala zerg v zerg there is no way you can live roaming solo for long in wvw simply becuase of the way it is designed. die.. run back.. die.. run back.. gets old she says..

 

myself.. im almost rank 5000 and i run with the zerg... works for me