Passive Traits

[xp eke xp.6724]

Hello,

if you notice last patches, arenanet nerfed much passive defence traits, by giving them higher cds. Well I dont like this way and got another idea!:

what about using the count system instead: like on warrior "Last Stand" gives a second "Balanced Stance". The diferent between before and after are simple: you have to **USE** your skill instead of get rescured by passives. Ofc they maybe need to rebalance the cds, but at least it forced the players to play bether.

 

Maybe it can be used for more traits that gives you a second skill. What do you think about? can this help out of overloading traits or punish bad players that normaly survive unnecessary longer? got bether ideas?

 

Ofc there are more points that need to get fixed (like insant dmg) but thats another discussion.

[Math.5123]

Just remove every defensive passive, and tone down the offensive / cancer offensive procs too. Spinal shivers, glacial hammer, ancient seeds.

[zalt.8937]

> @"xp eke xp.6724" said:

> Hello,

> if you notice last patches, arenanet nerfed much passive defence traits, by giving them higher cds. Well I dont like this way and got another idea!:

> what about using the count system instead: like on warrior "Last Stand" gives a second "Balanced Stance". The diferent between before and after are simple: you have to **USE** your skill instead of get rescured by passives. Ofc they maybe need to rebalance the cds, but at least it forced the players to play bether.

>

> Maybe it can be used for more traits that gives you a second skill. What do you think about? can this help out of overloading traits or punish bad players that normaly survive unnecessary longer? got bether ideas?

>

> Ofc there are more points that need to get fixed (like insant dmg) but thats another discussion.

 

Problem is you'd have to use the utility in order for ammo to work. Like i might wanna go for passive SoS i mm trait line, and skip using SoS on my utility bar.

Well just solve it with another f-ability? Might be problematic with the ones introduced with elites.

 

I agree with AngelLovesFredrik regarding how to balance pasisve defence

[NICENIKESHOE.7128]

Overloaded skills are something discussed to death back when HoT was first released, and some considered packing features into single skills "passive" as well. It is now becoming a norm but I wouldn't recommend escalate it.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

Remove all passive defensive traits, spread out Overloaded traits into the void of Passive Defesnive traits, reduce power creep.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> Just remove every defensive passive, and tone down the offensive / cancer offensive procs too. Spinal shivers, glacial hammer, ancient seeds.

 

IIRC, they said just a few weeks ago that the passives are going to stay because they like the ability to use them in PvE. They basically admitted that they want builds to be able to carry players in PvE (theoretically to help sell more copies of the game to very casual players who might rely on them more). Can't say I agree with their stance, but we aren't likely to see passives removed any time soon

[xp eke xp.6724]

You play norm. max dmg based builds in PvE, so that builds are at all less effective then balanced builds. Means you have more ressourses by playing balanced builds but for that you give up the highest dmg.

 

So if u use a PvE build in WvW or PvP, you will loose much more fights, while you get carried far bether at PvE if u use a PvP/ WvW build. The only thing you loose by playing PvP/WvW builds at PvE is time, if we talking about players that do nearly no misstakes there ;)

 

If we woud remove the passives this means for PvE more skillplaying too, cause they normaly still try to do the top dmg. But they loose more defences, so timing gets even more important or loose no defences cause they allready dont use them, so nothing changes for them at all ^^.

[Ferus.3165]

> @"xp eke xp.6724" said:

> Hello,

> if you notice last patches, arenanet nerfed much passive defence traits, by giving them higher cds. Well I dont like this way and got another idea!:

> what about using the count system instead: like on warrior "Last Stand" gives a second "Balanced Stance". The diferent between before and after are simple: you have to **USE** your skill instead of get rescured by passives. Ofc they maybe need to rebalance the cds, but at least it forced the players to play bether.

>

> Maybe it can be used for more traits that gives you a second skill. What do you think about? can this help out of overloading traits or punish bad players that normaly survive unnecessary longer? got bether ideas?

>

> Ofc there are more points that need to get fixed (like insant dmg) but thats another discussion.

 

make active balanced stance 8-10 sec duration again and the you could do that, or remove any invis and instant teleport from other classes and you could also do that. People getting carried by invis and shadowsteps a lot harder than because of 5 sec stab every 90 secs lol

[Rym.1469]

What you are actually proposing is basically adding a second charge to skills in question - something's that definitely a positive change.

 

A lot of passives are pretty great because they essentialy give you an additional utility you don't have to equip on your bar. With an additional requirement we limit the amount of freebies, because some good passive procs have high alternative cost when replacing utilities on the action bar.

 

This is almost an universally good change for passives that have skill counterparts (protective ward for example does not).

Almost, because some of those skills bear little alternative cost, already outclassing other options and being on your bars. I'm talking specifically about Endure Pain, Elixir S and similar skills. Additional charges for those would be even more powerful than passive procs, so I'd rather let them reset cd upon fullfilling the condition (like automatic med response on engi).

 

The biggest issue with passive proc traits I see right now is that many of them might not be that great, but they have no competition in their trait tiers. So if redesigning such traits is not an option, making their alternative cost high by having valuable traits in the same tiers is the way to go.

 

This way we could potentially have variations of the same build where better player can pick non-passive trait with higher power level and player less familiar with the build can take proc trait with lower power level. It's a tough scenario to balance, but if not the balance team, at least the pvp/wvw team has a very good record with their balance splits so far and they could attempt it.

[Shirlias.8104]

All passive traits needs to go.

Give instead different bonuses and change active skills from 1 every 30 sec to 2 every 30 sec.

[Ragion.2831]

Doesnt really matter at this point tbh.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> All passive traits needs to go.

> Give instead different bonuses and change active skills from 1 every 30 sec to 2 every 30 sec.

 

This is ideal solution. But there are so many passive traits in the game that it presents a design challenge to come up with that many new traits to replace them. Definitely not a short term balance goal.

[ezd.6359]

All traits are passive. Suddenly!

[Swagg.9236]

Just remove traits? They're all just passive anyway. They could just get folded into skills, then people could laugh at how busted and braindead GW2 is by just reading the skill tool tips directly.

[Ferus.3165]

and remove all invis, instant cast and teleport skills while you are at it :)

[ScottBroChill.3254]

dude all the invulns are the most annoying things in the world, coupled with the constant stunlocking of warriors and mesmers makes me want to tear my eyes out lol

[Ferus.3165]

> @"ScottBroChill.3254" said:

> dude all the invulns are the most annoying things in the world, coupled with the constant stunlocking of warriors and mesmers makes me want to tear my eyes out lol

 

dude all this evade is the most annoying thing in the world, coupled with constant nukes of thief, mesmers, elementalist, revenant and ranger makes me want to tear my eyes out :lol:

 

[Vieux P.1238]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > Just remove every defensive passive, and tone down the offensive / cancer offensive procs too. Spinal shivers, glacial hammer, ancient seeds.

>

> IIRC, they said just a few weeks ago that the passives are going to stay because they like the ability to use them in PvE. They basically admitted that they want builds to be able to carry players in PvE (theoretically to help sell more copies of the game to very casual players who might rely on them more). Can't say I agree with their stance, but we aren't likely to see passives removed any time soon

 

Best thing Anet done & can do is remove all passives. Have actually players rely on skill's for once & not just pretend they are actually touching there keyboard & call them selves pros when they hit platinum.

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"Vieux P.1238" said:

> Best thing Anet done & can do is remove all passives. Have actually players rely on skill's for once & not just pretend they are actually touching there keyboard & call them selves pros when they hit platinum.

 

As a Thief, I support this 100%

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > All passive traits needs to go.

> > Give instead different bonuses and change active skills from 1 every 30 sec to 2 every 30 sec.

>

> This is ideal solution. But there are so many passive traits in the game that it presents a design challenge to come up with that many new traits to replace them. Definitely not a short term balance goal.

 

Passive traits aren't a problem. Passive save skills are.

 

Mental Anguish is a passive trait that increases your shatter damage. This damage is doubled against targets that are not moving. This is a passive, but it's an excellently designed trait because it shapes playstyle. Now, your entire playstyle has been shaped towards trying to combo shatters while the opponent is stunned. You talk talk about Shatter mesmers having too much power right now, but the way this passive trait is designed is really cool.

 

Stuff like Defy Pain, and Instant Reflexes that will proc lifesaving skills automatically when struck at a certain health threshold are the problem.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

Passive traits should be QOL skills(regen, condi clearing, stability(balance stance is one, mesmer n rev stability on dodge ect..) stuff like this) and utilities should be life saving skills(endure pain, engi shrink invuln), or dps skills.....active play style to survive and do damage is the most balance and fun way to implement such skills.

[Shirlias.8104]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > All passive traits needs to go.

> > > Give instead different bonuses and change active skills from 1 every 30 sec to 2 every 30 sec.

> >

> > This is ideal solution. But there are so many passive traits in the game that it presents a design challenge to come up with that many new traits to replace them. Definitely not a short term balance goal.

>

> Passive traits aren't a problem. Passive save skills are.

>

> Mental Anguish is a passive trait that increases your shatter damage. This damage is doubled against targets that are not moving. This is a passive, but it's an excellently designed trait because it shapes playstyle. Now, your entire playstyle has been shaped towards trying to combo shatters while the opponent is stunned. You talk talk about Shatter mesmers having too much power right now, but the way this passive trait is designed is really cool.

>

> Stuff like Defy Pain, and Instant Reflexes that will proc lifesaving skills automatically when struck at a certain health threshold are the problem.

 

That's what i meant with my post ( and i guess him too ).

By saying

 

> Give instead different bonuses and change active skills from 1 every 30 sec to 2 every 30 sec.

 

I meant, for an instance, to remove "Defy Pain" and give warrior 2 charges of "Endure Pain".

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > > All passive traits needs to go.

> > > > Give instead different bonuses and change active skills from 1 every 30 sec to 2 every 30 sec.

> > >

> > > This is ideal solution. But there are so many passive traits in the game that it presents a design challenge to come up with that many new traits to replace them. Definitely not a short term balance goal.

> >

> > Passive traits aren't a problem. Passive save skills are.

> >

> > Mental Anguish is a passive trait that increases your shatter damage. This damage is doubled against targets that are not moving. This is a passive, but it's an excellently designed trait because it shapes playstyle. Now, your entire playstyle has been shaped towards trying to combo shatters while the opponent is stunned. You talk talk about Shatter mesmers having too much power right now, but the way this passive trait is designed is really cool.

> >

> > Stuff like Defy Pain, and Instant Reflexes that will proc lifesaving skills automatically when struck at a certain health threshold are the problem.

>

> That's what i meant with my post ( and i guess him too ).

> By saying

>

> > Give instead different bonuses and change active skills from 1 every 30 sec to 2 every 30 sec.

>

> I meant, for an instance, to remove "Defy Pain" and give warrior 2 charges of "Endure Pain".

 

I actually think Defy Pain turning Endure Pain into an ammo skill is actually rather brilliant.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > > @"Shirlias.8104" said:

> > > All passive traits needs to go.

> > > Give instead different bonuses and change active skills from 1 every 30 sec to 2 every 30 sec.

> >

> > This is ideal solution. But there are so many passive traits in the game that it presents a design challenge to come up with that many new traits to replace them. Definitely not a short term balance goal.

>

> Passive traits aren't a problem. Passive save skills are.

>

> Mental Anguish is a passive trait that increases your shatter damage. This damage is doubled against targets that are not moving. This is a passive, but it's an excellently designed trait because it shapes playstyle. Now, your entire playstyle has been shaped towards trying to combo shatters while the opponent is stunned. You talk talk about Shatter mesmers having too much power right now, but the way this passive trait is designed is really cool.

>

> Stuff like Defy Pain, and Instant Reflexes that will proc lifesaving skills automatically when struck at a certain health threshold are the problem.

 

Under your, overly pedantic, definition of passive traits, every single trait is a passive trait, since they all passively change some aspect of gameplay. I could have been clearer but I really didn't think it was necessary till your comment.

 

'Passive' traits to me are not just passive save traits, but traits that proc on their own under some condition. Examples would include: a trait that procs to cleanse conditions under X situation (as opposed to one that modifies a skill type to cleanse a condition on cast. That would be fine); a trait that procs to break a stun when you are stunned (as opposed to modifying some skill to be a stunbreak, that would be fine); a trait that procs to randomly disable an enemy on its own (like mirror of anguish. It activates on its own instead of you purposefully doing something to activate it) etc...

 

Its any trait that can proc on its own, instead of simply modifying one of your skills/mechanics like most traits do.

[Kako.1930]

The problem with the ammo thing is that the trait makes it so you don't necessarily have to use a utility slot to get the skill. Example: on my engineer I don't use elixir S but I use the trait that activates it. As it is, it clears up a spot for something else instead, which is why I like it.