Feedback on the State of the Mesmer [merged]

[OriOri.8724]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said:

> > > @"FyzE.3472" said:

> > > > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said:

> > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said:

> > > > > > @"FtoPScrub.5476" said:

> > > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said:

> > > > > > > Do you really thin that Anet will destroy the profession they have just made a huge update on? Really? Or they will make small changes until they are fine with the results because the base (actual update) is solid? Food for thought

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If they keep making small changes then Mirage will be in the same spot for multiple balance patches. Easily half a year or more. By then a lot of people will just quit. You can't introduce a spec that just literally towers above anything else for side noding and expect side noders to just reroll Mesmer or accept fighting at a big disadvantage. Remember bunker chrono and how that caused a ton of people to outright quit? It's probably not as dire but people aren't going to deal with 4x Mesmers each game for the next 3 months. They'll just leave.

> > > > >

> > > > > OK, I will take the bait. First of all, the patch was just yesterday so it is still too early to say that mesmers will dominate the next month or so. And lastly, IF there will be a lot of mesmers, then there will be an entire range of their skill level. A really bad mesmer is quite amusing to fight :D

> > > >

> > > > Mesmers in their current state dominating side nodes is about the safest bet you can make. Renegade being meta has a higher chance of happening than Mesmers not being meta lol.

> > > >

> > > > >Second of all, people are "quiting" since the game was released.

> > > >

> > > > Which is why Anet needs to be on top of their balance game. People will put up with a lot of kitten as long as the game is fun. The second it stops being fun(like when you massively outplay a Mesmer but he wins because his spec) is when people leave in droves.

> > > >

> > > > >And lastly, IF there will be a lot of mesmers, then there will be an entire range of their skill level. A really bad mesmer is quite amusing to fight

> > > >

> > > > I fail to see how that has anything to do with balance. If literally everyone rerolled Mesmer, by that logic it would be okay? I'm not trying to be a kitten, but with a 3 month wait between patches Anet can't afford to make minor changes to wait and see.

> > >

> > > Well that is not a balance problem but the frequency of balance patches then. Also if you think that GW2 is your regular MMO it is clearly not. Personally, I enjoy that :-)

> >

> > I definitely agree with you that the balance patches need to be far more frequent. A patch every 2 weeks with small amounts of changes focused in one area is the best way to respond to overpowered and underpowered classes.

>

> See, this is the biggest issue tbh, they just did a major rework of a class mechanic (a much needed change) and left it for nearly 2 months and we get a skill split patch to ease the issues. It seems ANet doesn’t have the resources to do a tweak on the regular basis that such a rework would require. I mean I got hit by illusionary rogue the other day for 10k, I’m all for it doing decent damage but that’s a little excessive given there’s only really 2 traits that affect its damage and I didn’t give the guy a 1/2s to build any might.

 

They only have 3 devs that work on the skills and balance team, based off of the only 3 who are ever credited for designing new elite specs are the same 3 that answer all balance related questions. Its not possible to push out faster balance patches when they have 9 classes, 63 traitlines and who knows how many skills to balance, for 3 different game modes.

[Aza.2105]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> They only have 3 devs that work on the skills and balance team, based off of the only 3 who are ever credited for designing new elite specs are the same 3 that answer all balance related questions. Its not possible to push out faster balance patches when they have 9 classes, 63 traitlines and who knows how many skills to balance, for 3 different game modes.

 

The rate of balance patches have been roughly the same since launch when they had more devs working it, who were actually dedicated to pvp.

 

 

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"OriOri.8724" said:

> > @"kappa.2036" said:

> > Nothing more to say. Infinite clone spam coupled with invulns, evades, blocks, massive cc and damage. The thing that makes me angry is that everyone said it before the patch came out, and anet did absolutely nothing to change things. I'm disappointed.

>

> Note that this was **_not_** a balance patch, and we were told that several times leading up to it. It was a skill split patch designed at reducing the impact of passive proc traits.

>

> They told us that this was not a balance patch.

 

I have my doubts. If the patches are quarterly, we should expect a full quarterly balance patch in a month as well. Given how a lot of these changes really weren't that different from what usually happens in these patches as it is, I'm inclined to believe we won't see revisions until June.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Absinthey.5340" said:

> Logged on for the first time in a while.

>

> Went to FFA Arena.

>

> Fought a Mesmer.

>

> Exited Game and Uninstalled Gw2.

>

> Been fun I guess o/

 

That's pretty much how it went the last time I uninstalled.

 

It's actually WORSE now.

[Aza.2105]

Put a cap on the Mesmer illusions or what ever they are called. I just fought two mesmers and it literally looked like there were 10 different characters on my screen. This is insane. They can do burst damage? Cool, i don't care. But don't clutter my screen with a mess of endless AI npcs. Thing is I'm willing to bet that this stays this way for the next several months or who knows several years. Or until its seen as a problem in pve then its instantly changed within a week. I don't want to sound condescending, because I actually respect the devs here. But you guys just release stuff and it seems like there is no care how it affects players in pvp.

 

Look I get it, mesmers are suppose to have illusions. Fine. But how much is too much? Should we really be burdened to deal with 4-5+ at once? Then that number multiples the more mesmers you add on your team. It becomes just crazy after awhile.

 


 

I counted 9 illusions. No idea where the real mesmer was at that point. Also there were two mesmers, I believe running the same build. So that would be 18 Ai clones. And yep the mesmer had evades, blocks as well as 25 stacks of might, nearly always had stability and access to invul and stealth.

 

Ben, ask your colleagues.....what on earth were they thinking? If the rework was for pve then it should of just stayed in pve. Because it doesn't seem to have been made for pvp. Unless for some reason Anet wants players to deal with 18 AI clones and have to manually try to click the real Mesmer.

 

 

[Kraitan.8476]

By far the most annoying class in pvp imo

[Toron.4856]

mesmer mains be like: its a l2p issue

 

not realizing their class is completly busted lul

[shadowpass.4236]

All of these mesmer players think, "Suddenly recently I've gotten better at mesmer by a lot"

 

Gee... I wonder if it's that

or

There's a monkey spec that as long as you summon things you're instantly equivalent to basically a top player in a duel

 

LUL

[saerni.2584]

It’s not OP in group fights but the visual spam can be annoying if there is even just one prolific Mesmer. Two and it’s always a mess on the screen.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> Put a cap on the Mesmer illusions or what ever they are called. I just fought two mesmers and it literally looked like there were 10 different characters on my screen. This is insane. They can do burst damage? Cool, i don't care. But don't clutter my screen with a mess of endless AI npcs. Thing is I'm willing to bet that this stays this way for the next several months or who knows several years. Or until its seen as a problem in pve then its instantly changed within a week. I don't want to sound condescending, because I actually respect the devs here. But you guys just release stuff and it seems like there is no care how it affects players in pvp.

>

> Look I get it, mesmers are suppose to have illusions. Fine. But how much is too much? Should we really be burdened to deal with 4-5+ at once? Then that number multiples the more mesmers you add on your team. It becomes just crazy after awhile.

 

Some parts of the phantasm rework definitely need to be re-balanced. Putting a blanket cap on the number of phantasms out is far from the best way to do it honestly. Removing/changing the combo-ing of certain traits that allow a single phantasm skill to output 4 phantasms, who will despawn into 2 clones eventually, and then be immediately refreshed (and I'm not even considering doubling up on skills with CS here) is a significantly healthier option.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

I think clones/illusions/phantasams what ever you want to call them should NOT be targetable at all by tab targeting.....you can click on one and target it that way but not by auto targeting or tab targeting, should never target an npc ai toon in pvp.

Mesmers already have a detargeting trait(i think), they have immense mobility option to flank and run away, and have stealth all of which can be used to have the enemy detarget you. On top of that they can stay 1200 distance away on most of there dps burst skills.

[Math.5123]

A Blanket nerf by 60% dmg on Defender / Disenchanter / Avenger.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> I think clones/illusions/phantasams what ever you want to call them should NOT be targetable at all by tab targeting.....you can click on one and target it that way but not by auto targeting or tab targeting, should never target an npc ai toon in pvp.

 

This is actually a good idea!

I would add the following: mesmer always gets prioritizing on tab, and perhaps add some damage on tab (but only against mesmer).

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> Put a cap on the Mesmer illusions or what ever they are called. I just fought two mesmers and it literally looked like there were 10 different characters on my screen. This is insane. They can do burst damage? Cool, i don't care. But don't clutter my screen with a mess of endless AI npcs. Thing is I'm willing to bet that this stays this way for the next several months or who knows several years. Or until its seen as a problem in pve then its instantly changed within a week. I don't want to sound condescending, because I actually respect the devs here. But you guys just release stuff and it seems like there is no care how it affects players in pvp.

>

> Look I get it, mesmers are suppose to have illusions. Fine. But how much is too much? Should we really be burdened to deal with 4-5+ at once? Then that number multiples the more mesmers you add on your team. It becomes just crazy after awhile.

 

Calm down :p

 

I age with your sentiment, but the reason isn't the number of illusions per se. The problem is twofold:

 

1. Anet does not seem to have accounted for illusions by making the class weaker in some way outside of those illusions

2. Once the source has been identified targeting still is more of a problem

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > I think clones/illusions/phantasams what ever you want to call them should NOT be targetable at all by tab targeting.....you can click on one and target it that way but not by auto targeting or tab targeting, should never target an npc ai toon in pvp.

>

> This is actually a good idea!

> I would add the following: mesmer always gets prioritizing on tab, and perhaps add some damage on tab (but only against mesmer).

 

I hesitate to say that since it would basically eliminate clones just by tab targeting in pvp. Even as much as I hate mesmer.

 

I think the correct solution is to reduce the number of clones to what we had before tbh. Or at least make it so tab doesn't target some clones

[Swagger.1459]

All the devs need to do is change the AI to not look like the player character. These AI need their own unique, and identifiable, models.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> All the devs need to do is change the AI to not look like the player character.

 

This works to...iv also always thought, what if the clones were just mini me's of the real mesmer, like literally 1/2 the physical size of the mesmer toon...just to make out the real one, but that will defeat the purpose of the illusion i feel....but was one of mt othet ideas.

[Rufo.3716]

Even if you know where the actual player is you can't fricken target them because all the damn illusions are in the way. I used to love playing my mesmer but now it's not even fun. Such EZ mode it's not even funny.

[Solori.6025]

I feel like you guys need to be more specific.

If Phantasm spam is the issue, then the trait ChronoPhantasma needs to be reworked.

They could even make Phantasms not part of the tab target priority, since they are only temporary anyway.

If you are losing the mesmer to clones you could literally cleave from 1-2 auto attacks....

well....

[DaShi.1368]

They just want mesmer gone. When mesmer only had portal going for it, they wanted portal gone. Mesmer has always dominated bad players who think they are good. Moa was a noob killer, and they freaked out about it. Mesmer has always had them screaming for nerfs. And we see the same exaggerations. We see the same people, who as soon as they lose to a mesmer, they come crying to forums. They didn't even wait a day before the patch was released to call it still OP.

 

I'm a bad player and I know that I'm bad. I mouse-click and don't know build rotations. If I played enough games to rank, I'd be solidly in gold. Yet, I don't have any of the problems these players have. I haven't even played mesmer in pvp that much (3 times mirage early last season, and twice during the beta), but I've been able to beat top mesmers. In fact, I'm playing rev now and mesmers are not my major concern.

 

I generally don't ask for nerfs for any profession (except for thieves, because that's in the EULA :) ). It's childish, if you don't have reasonable suggestions. And mesmer nerfs to pvp don't really bother me. But these mesmer complaints have gone beyond absurd. For this crowd, nothing short of removing mesmer from the game will make them stop complaining about mesmer. But they will still complain. Because their will always be something that will beat them. Anet should save us all the trouble and simply delete and ban these kinds of threads. Not just for mesmer, but for all classes.

[Aza.2105]

 

 

> @"DaShi.1368" said:

>Moa was a noob killer

 

Moa wasn't a noob killer, it was a pvp killer. In no competitive game should a player ever lose control of their character. That is why it was bad.

 

 

[DaShi.1368]

I've never had a problem with it on any class. Still don't when I see it occasionally from mesmers or the rare engy.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

>

>

> > @"DaShi.1368" said:

> >Moa was a noob killer

>

> Moa wasn't a noob killer, it was a pvp killer. In no competitive game should a player ever lose control of their character. That is why it was bad.

>

>

 

Eh, it worked in WoW, but that's because sheeping people was a disable that was removed as soon as the sheep took damage. There was a similar skill for the Rogue in WoW as well, where you can disable somebody for up to 2 minutes, but any damage would break them out of it instantly.

 

I do appreciate that I can do some significant damage as a moa in GW2 though. I've downed several people in PvP in Moa form. BAWK BAWK MOTHA****ER!

 

> @"DaShi.1368" said:

> I generally don't ask for nerfs for any profession (except for thieves, because that's in the EULA :) ). It's childish, if you don't have reasonable suggestions. And mesmer nerfs to pvp don't really bother me. But these mesmer complaints have gone beyond absurd. For this crowd, nothing short of removing mesmer from the game will make them stop complaining about mesmer. But they will still complain. Because their will always be something that will beat them. Anet should save us all the trouble and simply delete and ban these kinds of threads. Not just for mesmer, but for all classes.

 

Nobody wants it deleted. They want the absurdity reduced or removed. Dealing with a large number of illusions is obnoxious given the amount of disengage/stealth potential of a mesmer. Finding the mesmer shouldn't be a lethal task.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"DaShi.1368" said:

> I've never had a problem with it on any class. Still don't when I see it occasionally from mesmers or the rare engy.

 

I wouldn’t argue with them. Their so blinded by their hatred for the class even when the majority of the Mesmer players are offering suggestions for nerfs they still come on here on say every Mesmer main thinks the class is fine. The only person that has said it was fine was ilthiwen. Everyone else has suggested nerfs. And then they over exaggerate, when called out they want to argue semantics, start making accusations, etc.

[Aza.2105]

> @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> Eh, it worked in WoW, but that's because sheeping people was a disable that was removed as soon as the sheep took damage. There was a similar skill for the Rogue in WoW as well, where you can disable somebody for up to 2 minutes, but any damage would break them out of it instantly.

 

Yep but wow is considered among most to be a pve game. Thing is stupid crowd control isn't uncommon in games that are geared for pve but allow pvp. In lineage 2 they had a paralyze skill that lasted for two minutes. Yeah you couldn't move for two minutes while enemies nuked you. They also had a silence that lasted two minutes, yep you couldn't use any skill for two minutes. All that is cool for pve but not for pvp.