Feedback on the State of the Mesmer [merged]

[EpicTurtle.8571]

> @"will de grijze jager.6594" said:

> > The phantasm rule fixed a huge mechanical problem for the entire profession. It's not 'broken' because you say it is. The change wasn't made to kill that build specifically, it was made to make Mesmer have a cohesive flow instead of having it's mechanics fight each other. Although this is going to just go in circles because what you're really asking for is actually impossible. You want to revert the phantasm changes, but keep the one and done behavior, meaning you can just shatter them inadvertently which is stupid that's a stupid stupid thing and exactly what the problem was before, they're either fodder or useless to anyone who wants to play IH Mirage.

> >

> > Tell me more about this broken phantasm spam Mirage, go on, I'll wait. Tell me about the rampant complaints where it's totally about how phantasm Mirage can get so many phantasms that it's ridiculous.

> >

> > The previous phantasm rules had been despised by actual Mesmer mains for a long time, the advent of Mirage only highlighted how useless phantasms could be so something had to be done.

> >

> > But you're not a Mesmer main by admission so I don't know why I expect you to grasp this.

>

> It is funny that you say people don't give skills that need nerf because a lot have pointed to burst combo's and skills/traits that do the damage, but everytime someone does a mesmer main like you come and act like they don't know what they are talking about, while they gave prof with a video or something like that. After they give prof the mesmer mains say no it is a l2p issue. This is becuase mesmers or any class that is broken at any point of time say that there class is not broken because they like the ez wins. Get from that high horse and stop acting like people that point to the skills/traits that do damage are wrong.

 

Hey bud, I've actually gone ahead and listed stuff about Mesmer that needs to be fixed (Signet of the Ether, Chronophantasma, etc.). The person I was replying to is doing what you are accusing me of doing, and wanted to revert the entire phantasm rework just to save Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether which by far are outperforming post-rework. But whatever, go on your poorly written, nearly unintelligible salt crusade.

 

Note, the Mesmer page is filled with Mesmers discussing and trying to get ANet to do something about crap that has been overperforming, but ANet only listens when there's a mass circlejerk of tears on the PvP forum, so here we are.

[will de grijze jager.6594]

> @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > @"will de grijze jager.6594" said:

> > > The phantasm rule fixed a huge mechanical problem for the entire profession. It's not 'broken' because you say it is. The change wasn't made to kill that build specifically, it was made to make Mesmer have a cohesive flow instead of having it's mechanics fight each other. Although this is going to just go in circles because what you're really asking for is actually impossible. You want to revert the phantasm changes, but keep the one and done behavior, meaning you can just shatter them inadvertently which is stupid that's a stupid stupid thing and exactly what the problem was before, they're either fodder or useless to anyone who wants to play IH Mirage.

> > >

> > > Tell me more about this broken phantasm spam Mirage, go on, I'll wait. Tell me about the rampant complaints where it's totally about how phantasm Mirage can get so many phantasms that it's ridiculous.

> > >

> > > The previous phantasm rules had been despised by actual Mesmer mains for a long time, the advent of Mirage only highlighted how useless phantasms could be so something had to be done.

> > >

> > > But you're not a Mesmer main by admission so I don't know why I expect you to grasp this.

> >

> > It is funny that you say people don't give skills that need nerf because a lot have pointed to burst combo's and skills/traits that do the damage, but everytime someone does a mesmer main like you come and act like they don't know what they are talking about, while they gave prof with a video or something like that. After they give prof the mesmer mains say no it is a l2p issue. This is becuase mesmers or any class that is broken at any point of time say that there class is not broken because they like the ez wins. Get from that high horse and stop acting like people that point to the skills/traits that do damage are wrong.

>

> Hey bud, I've actually gone ahead and listed stuff about Mesmer that needs to be fixed (Signet of the Ether, Chronophantasma, etc.). The person I was replying to is doing what you are accusing me of doing, and wanted to revert the entire phantasm rework just to save Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether which by far are outperforming post-rework. But whatever, go on your poorly written, nearly unintelligible salt crusade.

>

> Note, the Mesmer page is filled with Mesmers discussing and trying to get ANet to do something about crap that has been overperforming, but ANet only listens when there's a mass kitten of tears on the PvP forum, so here we are.

 

And there it is! Get called out and need to offend people. Really aldut like.

[bravan.3876]

> @"will de grijze jager.6594" said:

> > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > > @"will de grijze jager.6594" said:

> > > > The phantasm rule fixed a huge mechanical problem for the entire profession. It's not 'broken' because you say it is. The change wasn't made to kill that build specifically, it was made to make Mesmer have a cohesive flow instead of having it's mechanics fight each other. Although this is going to just go in circles because what you're really asking for is actually impossible. You want to revert the phantasm changes, but keep the one and done behavior, meaning you can just shatter them inadvertently which is stupid that's a stupid stupid thing and exactly what the problem was before, they're either fodder or useless to anyone who wants to play IH Mirage.

> > > >

> > > > Tell me more about this broken phantasm spam Mirage, go on, I'll wait. Tell me about the rampant complaints where it's totally about how phantasm Mirage can get so many phantasms that it's ridiculous.

> > > >

> > > > The previous phantasm rules had been despised by actual Mesmer mains for a long time, the advent of Mirage only highlighted how useless phantasms could be so something had to be done.

> > > >

> > > > But you're not a Mesmer main by admission so I don't know why I expect you to grasp this.

> > >

> > > It is funny that you say people don't give skills that need nerf because a lot have pointed to burst combo's and skills/traits that do the damage, but everytime someone does a mesmer main like you come and act like they don't know what they are talking about, while they gave prof with a video or something like that. After they give prof the mesmer mains say no it is a l2p issue. This is becuase mesmers or any class that is broken at any point of time say that there class is not broken because they like the ez wins. Get from that high horse and stop acting like people that point to the skills/traits that do damage are wrong.

> >

> > Hey bud, I've actually gone ahead and listed stuff about Mesmer that needs to be fixed (Signet of the Ether, Chronophantasma, etc.). The person I was replying to is doing what you are accusing me of doing, and wanted to revert the entire phantasm rework just to save Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether which by far are outperforming post-rework. But whatever, go on your poorly written, nearly unintelligible salt crusade.

> >

> > Note, the Mesmer page is filled with Mesmers discussing and trying to get ANet to do something about crap that has been overperforming, but ANet only listens when there's a mass kitten of tears on the PvP forum, so here we are.

>

> And there it is! Get called out and need to offend people. Really aldut like.

 

I just ignore that guy, helps a lot.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

But when i see ppl complaining about gs glass shattermesmer then it is just ridiculous.

 

Indeed.

A build that exists almost since the game release and people still didn't adapt.

 

You can nerf power shatter further (was already nerfed in the last patch) but you need to give sustain damage in return, which is kind of awful with that build.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"will de grijze jager.6594" said:

> And there it is! Get called out and need to offend people. Really aldut like.

 

Hey, telling someone they're on a high horse usually doesn't go over respectfully. Just sayin.

Even if there are a handful of mesmers actively trying to keep the class overperforming, there are also some willing to discuss what is or isn't broken, and what is or isn't a learn to play issue. Instead of accusing -all- of them of behaving in this way (and then being outraged when they berate you for it) , highlight specifically what you think is broken. The solution for nerfing is probably more than mesmer mains are willing to give and less than some other mains are willing to take, but we have to start somewhere.

 

By now it is established that Elusive mind, Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether are overperforming with the recent rework. If that kills the visual clutter issue, fine. I think there are some areas where damage can be toned down, but if the damage is telegraphed well enough I can ignore that issue for now. If we keep it too general the balance will hamstring mesmer mains, not fix the problem, or both.

 

 

 

[Odik.4587]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"will de grijze jager.6594" said:

> > And there it is! Get called out and need to offend people. Really aldut like.

>

> Hey, telling someone they're on a high horse usually doesn't go over respectfully. Just sayin.

> Even if there are a handful of mesmers actively trying to keep the class overperforming, there are also some willing to discuss what is or isn't broken, and what is or isn't a learn to play issue. Instead of accusing -all- of them of behaving in this way (and then being outraged when they berate you for it) , highlight specifically what you think is broken. The solution for nerfing is probably more than mesmer mains are willing to give and less than some other mains are willing to take, but we have to start somewhere.

>

> By now it is established that Elusive mind, Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether are overperforming with the recent rework. If that kills the visual clutter issue, fine. I think there are some areas where damage can be toned down, but if the damage is telegraphed well enough I can ignore that issue for now. If we keep it too general the balance will hamstring mesmer mains, not fix the problem, or both.

>

>

>

 

You forgot utility phantasms and avenger phantasm .On demolisher shield phantasm hit way too hard(even if you can deny it completely). And if they get rid of double phantasms(staff,traited gs) that would weaken synergy between new phantasmal traits/even less screen clutter. Or i'm wrong somewhere ?

[OriOri.8724]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> > @"Kiritodatrth.1548" said:

> > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > @"Kiritodatrth.1548" said:

> > > > Talking as a company director...

> > > >

> > > > Hot fix is not existing in Anet vocabulary... I just wish for more frequent patches and smaller changes... They asked for feedback we gave them... Changed nothing, they did what they wanted and we end up with the problems we anticipated... GJ Anet.

> > > > This in any serious company asks for a letter of resignation Xp...

> > >

> > > 95% of the threads are mesmer mains trying to prevent more nerfs than they would like to see or mesmer hater crying even about not viable builds with high skill need. If i were Anet i would not spend a single minute in this forum. Balanceing wrong they also can do by their own pretty well.

> >

> > > @"bravan.3876" said:

> > > > @"Kiritodatrth.1548" said:

> > > > Talking as a company director...

> > > >

> > > > Hot fix is not existing in Anet vocabulary... I just wish for more frequent patches and smaller changes... They asked for feedback we gave them... Changed nothing, they did what they wanted and we end up with the problems we anticipated... GJ Anet.

> > > > This in any serious company asks for a letter of resignation Xp...

> > >

> > > 95% of the threads are mesmer mains trying to prevent more nerfs than they would like to see or mesmer hater crying even about not viable builds with high skill need. If i were Anet i would not spend a single minute in this forum. Balanceing wrong they also can do by their own pretty well.

> >

> > Well I agree in parts, Anet has this tendency to overreact... Due to the time between patches, I think...

> > I agree with mesmer main protecting this from happening with their main (same as Anet did with war last patch)... I will not cry about anything, my point is more in the direction that they don't do it and they don't listen... So prolly doesn't matter how much ppl are saying here they will do as they will and that is sad... Anet needs to select some GMs that keep track of the game as players AND listen to them, not try to please a low skill low rate L2P... Also GMs could be voted by the community representing classes... Keeps the change small an in a pace... But well... Who cares...

>

> To be honest I’d rather they had at least 1 staff member who literally just works on pushing out a balance patch every month. The 2 most important things for a game is that it be fun and that you have something to do. They fixed the latter by creating quarterly updates with a good zone to run a round in, explore and do metas, they added seasons for PvP to keep people interested or at least going back for rewards.

>

> Having said that between Jan 2013 and Dec 2013 there were 9 balance patches, Jan 2014 and Dec 2014 there were only 6 balance patches but a ton of skill fact changes and bug fixes. The same period in 2015 had 7 patches but also included HoT and specialisation updates which are considerably more work. I feel that having 8 or 9 balance changes even if they were just a few skills per class was a good state, it kept the game interesting and while nerfs suck in the long run I’m ok with them even if in the short term I’m dissatisfied, what makes me dissatisfied long term is power creep.

 

Meanwhile, in 2017 we had 7 balance patches (similar to 2015), couting PoF release. However, since the PoF release was 99% balancing new elite specs that hadn't officially been released yet, I hesitate to call it an actual balance patch. So 2017 had 6 actual balance patches, of which 1 of them didn't even touch include every class in the game. So we are done to 5 balance patches of any noticeable size in 2017. That number just isn't acceptable when you consider how small half of them are.

 

_IF_ each balance patch was of the same size as either the prePoF balance patch, or the balance patch that came very quickly after PoF launch (the former was HUGE, updating the majority of skills/traits on every class. The latter wasn't quite as big, but its goal was to fundamentally change balance in this game through various means [increasing a great number of support skills to 10 targets ], as well as make entire skill categories feel better to use in the game), then only having 5 actual balance patches a year would be fine. But unfortunately we only average about 2-3 balance patches that large each year.

[EpicTurtle.8571]

> @"will de grijze jager.6594" said:

> > @"EpicTurtle.8571" said:

> > > @"will de grijze jager.6594" said:

> > > > The phantasm rule fixed a huge mechanical problem for the entire profession. It's not 'broken' because you say it is. The change wasn't made to kill that build specifically, it was made to make Mesmer have a cohesive flow instead of having it's mechanics fight each other. Although this is going to just go in circles because what you're really asking for is actually impossible. You want to revert the phantasm changes, but keep the one and done behavior, meaning you can just shatter them inadvertently which is stupid that's a stupid stupid thing and exactly what the problem was before, they're either fodder or useless to anyone who wants to play IH Mirage.

> > > >

> > > > Tell me more about this broken phantasm spam Mirage, go on, I'll wait. Tell me about the rampant complaints where it's totally about how phantasm Mirage can get so many phantasms that it's ridiculous.

> > > >

> > > > The previous phantasm rules had been despised by actual Mesmer mains for a long time, the advent of Mirage only highlighted how useless phantasms could be so something had to be done.

> > > >

> > > > But you're not a Mesmer main by admission so I don't know why I expect you to grasp this.

> > >

> > > It is funny that you say people don't give skills that need nerf because a lot have pointed to burst combo's and skills/traits that do the damage, but everytime someone does a mesmer main like you come and act like they don't know what they are talking about, while they gave prof with a video or something like that. After they give prof the mesmer mains say no it is a l2p issue. This is becuase mesmers or any class that is broken at any point of time say that there class is not broken because they like the ez wins. Get from that high horse and stop acting like people that point to the skills/traits that do damage are wrong.

> >

> > Hey bud, I've actually gone ahead and listed stuff about Mesmer that needs to be fixed (Signet of the Ether, Chronophantasma, etc.). The person I was replying to is doing what you are accusing me of doing, and wanted to revert the entire phantasm rework just to save Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether which by far are outperforming post-rework. But whatever, go on your poorly written, nearly unintelligible salt crusade.

> >

> > Note, the Mesmer page is filled with Mesmers discussing and trying to get ANet to do something about crap that has been overperforming, but ANet only listens when there's a mass kitten of tears on the PvP forum, so here we are.

>

> And there it is! Get called out and need to offend people. Really aldut like.

 

I mean, if you're not gonna bother reading the post you quoted or the one I replied with, I'm not the one with the problem.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"will de grijze jager.6594" said:

> > And there it is! Get called out and need to offend people. Really aldut like.

>

> Hey, telling someone they're on a high horse usually doesn't go over respectfully. Just sayin.

> Even if there are a handful of mesmers actively trying to keep the class overperforming, there are also some willing to discuss what is or isn't broken, and what is or isn't a learn to play issue. Instead of accusing -all- of them of behaving in this way (and then being outraged when they berate you for it) , highlight specifically what you think is broken. The solution for nerfing is probably more than mesmer mains are willing to give and less than some other mains are willing to take, but we have to start somewhere.

>

> By now it is established that Elusive mind, Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether are overperforming with the recent rework. If that kills the visual clutter issue, fine. I think there are some areas where damage can be toned down, but if the damage is telegraphed well enough I can ignore that issue for now. If we keep it too general the balance will hamstring mesmer mains, not fix the problem, or both.

>

>

>

 

I think the on it's own the Shield 4 Phantasm Echo of Memory is fine even with it doing 4-6k damage. It has a very obvious tell, everyone can immediately recognize when the mesmer is blocking. The mechanic where if the mesmer blocks it summons a 2nd one is fine as well in my opinion. It's like full counter, if the mesmer absorbs his they get rewarded. And if the enemy player is dodging when the phantasm is being summoned, which is not terribly hard because it has a nice predictable 1.5 second cast time it, it'll completely prevent the phantasm from summoning.

 

All around I really like this skill. Not just because it's powerful or fun to use but because it has multiple ways to counter play it. It has a nice wind up with a clear tell. It's punishing if it blocks something but there's still counter play against it through LOS, stealth, evades, or blocking the phantasm itself. It might be a bit overtuned, you could probably stand to shave 20% of damage off it. But at the end of the day if you can't dodge an ability with a 1.5 second wind up I do feel there is some L2P issues there. It's exactly what we should want to see more of with skills; impactful but with nice wind ups and clear tells. It's eons better than instant cast garbage like Jaunt back when Carrion Ineptitude mesmers got some serious damage mileage out of that skill.

 

On it's own.

 

But expecting players to have to deal with potentially 4-8 shield phantasms not even counting Continuum Split back to back to back to back is insanity.

 

Disenchanter on the otherhand is extremely overtuned damage wise, and the bolt it shoots is both extremely fast and hard to see and easy to get lost in the clutter.

[will de grijze jager.6594]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"will de grijze jager.6594" said:

> > And there it is! Get called out and need to offend people. Really aldut like.

>

> Hey, telling someone they're on a high horse usually doesn't go over respectfully. Just sayin.

> Even if there are a handful of mesmers actively trying to keep the class overperforming, there are also some willing to discuss what is or isn't broken, and what is or isn't a learn to play issue. Instead of accusing -all- of them of behaving in this way (and then being outraged when they berate you for it) , highlight specifically what you think is broken. The solution for nerfing is probably more than mesmer mains are willing to give and less than some other mains are willing to take, but we have to start somewhere.

>

> By now it is established that Elusive mind, Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether are overperforming with the recent rework. If that kills the visual clutter issue, fine. I think there are some areas where damage can be toned down, but if the damage is telegraphed well enough I can ignore that issue for now. If we keep it too general the balance will hamstring mesmer mains, not fix the problem, or both.

 

ow the come form you high horse was about all the people that defend the broken class of the month

[EpicTurtle.8571]

> @"will de grijze jager.6594" said:

> > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > > @"will de grijze jager.6594" said:

> > > And there it is! Get called out and need to offend people. Really aldut like.

> >

> > Hey, telling someone they're on a high horse usually doesn't go over respectfully. Just sayin.

> > Even if there are a handful of mesmers actively trying to keep the class overperforming, there are also some willing to discuss what is or isn't broken, and what is or isn't a learn to play issue. Instead of accusing -all- of them of behaving in this way (and then being outraged when they berate you for it) , highlight specifically what you think is broken. The solution for nerfing is probably more than mesmer mains are willing to give and less than some other mains are willing to take, but we have to start somewhere.

> >

> > By now it is established that Elusive mind, Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether are overperforming with the recent rework. If that kills the visual clutter issue, fine. I think there are some areas where damage can be toned down, but if the damage is telegraphed well enough I can ignore that issue for now. If we keep it too general the balance will hamstring mesmer mains, not fix the problem, or both.

>

> ow the come form you high horse was about all the people that defend the broken class of the month

 

Was defending the phantasm rework not the entire class. But again, not my problem.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

The problem goes much deeper than most seem to realize.

 

If Anet seriously wants this class to be balanced, they need to ask themselves what they want the classes weakness, strength, and role to be. Because right now Mesmer is an absolute mess of a design in that it has been given the ability to have all strengths, no weakness, and the simultaneous roles of thief+warrior+engineer at the same time. Mesmer is in a state that no class has been in for years: in that the reason it is broken is not due to one specific trait or specific ability. Rather it is broken because the class itself was power-gamed from the ground up.

 

 

[Digikid.7230]

I'm not going to say whether or not mesmer builds are too strong or weak or whatever - but the visual clutter on screen from all the phantasms+ clones is really, really out of hand, remember when DH traps and auras were toned down visually due to screen clutter? The phantasm mesmer build is possibly the worst class in GW2 history when it comes to just filling up your screen.

Regardless of how "strong" or "weak" the rework is, this amount of visual spam on screen from the combined illusions+ phantasms is absolutely ridiculous, I would like to actually see the screen sometime.

[bravan.3876]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> The problem goes much deeper than most seem to realize.

>

> If Anet seriously wants this class to be balanced, they need to ask themselves what they want the classes weakness, strength, and role to be. Because right now Mesmer is an absolute mess of a design in that it has been given the ability to have all strengths, no weakness, and the simultaneous roles of thief+warrior+engineer at the same time. Mesmer is in a state that no class has been in for years: in that the reason it is broken is not due to one specific trait or specific ability. Rather it is broken because the class itself was power-gamed from the ground up.

>

>

 

When you have problems with a pure glass gs shatterspec than it clearly is a l2p issue.

[ZDragon.3046]

 

> @"bravan.3876" said:

> > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > The problem goes much deeper than most seem to realize.

> >

> > If Anet seriously wants this class to be balanced, they need to ask themselves what they want the classes weakness, strength, and role to be. Because right now Mesmer is an absolute mess of a design in that it has been given the ability to have all strengths, no weakness, and the simultaneous roles of thief+warrior+engineer at the same time. Mesmer is in a state that no class has been in for years: in that the reason it is broken is not due to one specific trait or specific ability. Rather it is broken because the class itself was power-gamed from the ground up.

> >

> >

>

> When you have problems with a pure glass gs shatterspec than it clearly is a l2p issue.

 

Lol Will be a L2p issue on both sides very shortly.

 

[Kraitan.8476]

Gonna take them at least 3 months to come up with another shitty way to nerf mesmer/mirage while they probably end up buffing it at the same time aswell. Endless shit balance just repacked in a new skin each season.

[mixxed.5862]

I just wanted to suggest some thoughts I had on where nerfs would be appropriate. Focusing on mirage and chrono without affecting core traits or skills too much is the right way to go in my opinion, because honestly I think core mesmer is fine right now.

 

**Mirage**: The burst is powerful but it's fine that way. If you get caught unawares and you're glass you're dead. But there are clear tells to the bursts. With the nerfs I don't think it's a big deal anymore, the survivability could be tuned down a notch.

 

Elusive Mind: Remove the Exhaustion. Instead put a 20 sec cooldown on the stunbreak part. Add an icon to the buff bar while the stunbreak is off cooldown.

 

Mirage Thrust: Consider reducing the leap distance to 450 or 500. Less mobility and kiting potential.

 

Jaunt: Consider reducing the maximum counts to 2?

 

**Chrono**: The Chronophantasma build obviously is too strong at 1v1s and 1v2s currently. For a bunker build it has too much pressure mostly via phantasms and the elite. There needs to be more counterplay to phantasm spam. So here are some ideas.

 

Gravity Well: Increase cooldown to 120 sec.

 

Chronophantasma: Increase the daze duration on resummon to 2.5 (or 3?) sec. Longer daze means more time to react and counterplay through cleave.

 

Phantasms in general: Some of the reworked phantasms inflict a lot of damage now and could do with a second look. While some complain about the visual noise of phantasms I honestly don't see why, other skills are way worse. In my opinion it's the other way around: The phantasms that lack a clearly visible attack animation/projectile tend to get covered up by the visual clutter of other skills. Increasing the visibility of phantasms and their attacks would be worthwhile!

 

Phantasmal Disenchanter: With this phantasm the visibility issue is the most apparent. It needs to be easier to recognize when it's been summoned and casts the attack so you actually have a chance to react. It seems like it bugs out frequently and doesn't become visible until after a second or two. You only see the name pop up which is easily missed.

 

Phantasmal Defender: Defender's damage gets a little crazy after it blocked 10 attacks, let it only stack damage from fewer blocks would be my suggestion.

 

And btw I think **Scourge** Shades should still get their radius decreased. Like set the radius on Sand Savant to +60. And maybe only +2 _allied_ targets. This is mainly because Scourge is still that busted in _WvW_ and sucks the fun out of that game mode, at least for me. Seriously it is terrible. WvW is such a mess right now, solely because of this spec.

[Hylo.1968]

> @"mixxed.5862" said:

> Jaunt: Consider reducing the maximum counts to 2?

>

 

nha

 

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"mixxed.5862" said:

> I just wanted to suggest some thoughts I had on where nerfs would be appropriate. Focusing on mirage and chrono without affecting core traits or skills too much is the right way to go in my opinion, because honestly I think core mesmer is fine right now.

>

> **Mirage**: The burst is powerful but it's fine that way. If you get caught unawares and you're glass you're dead. But there are clear tells to the bursts. With the nerfs I don't think it's a big deal anymore, the survivability could be tuned down a notch.

>

> Elusive Mind: Remove the Exhaustion. Instead put a 20 sec cooldown on the stunbreak part. Add an icon to the buff bar while the stunbreak is off cooldown.

>

> Mirage Thrust: Consider reducing the leap distance to 450 or 500. Less mobility and kiting potential.

>

> Jaunt: Consider reducing the maximum counts to 2?

>

> **Chrono**: The Chronophantasma build obviously is too strong at 1v1s and 1v2s currently. For a bunker build it has too much pressure mostly via phantasms and the elite. There needs to be more counterplay to phantasm spam. So here are some ideas.

>

> Gravity Well: Increase cooldown to 120 sec.

>

> Chronophantasma: Increase the daze duration on resummon to 2.5 (or 3?) sec. Longer daze means more time to react and counterplay through cleave.

>

> Phantasms in general: Some of the reworked phantasms inflict a lot of damage now and could do with a second look. While some complain about the visual noise of phantasms I honestly don't see why, other skills are way worse. In my opinion it's the other way around: The phantasms that lack a clearly visible attack animation/projectile tend to get covered up by the visual clutter of other skills. Increasing the visibility of phantasms and their attacks would be worthwhile!

>

> Phantasmal Disenchanter: With this phantasm the visibility issue is the most apparent. It needs to be easier to recognize when it's been summoned and casts the attack so you actually have a chance to react. It seems like it bugs out frequently and doesn't become visible until after a second or two. You only see the name pop up which is easily missed.

>

> Phantasmal Defender: Defender's damage gets a little crazy after it blocked 10 attacks, let it only stack damage from fewer blocks would be my suggestion.

>

> And btw I think **Scourge** Shades should still get their radius decreased. Like set the radius on Sand Savant to +60. And maybe only +2 _allied_ targets. This is mainly because Scourge is still that busted in _WvW_ and sucks the fun out of that game mode, at least for me. Seriously it is terrible. WvW is such a mess right now, solely because of this spec.

 

I think on an individual level almost every phantasm is fine. It's just impossible to balance when one heal skill and one trait takes a bunch of alright quite powerful, game changing skills and multiplies their power by 4x. You'd either need to nerf them back to a pre-rework state where they're all functionally worthless except for shatter fodder or you need to remove Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I just don't think Chronophantasma and Signet of the Ether are things that should exist in a world where any phantasm landing their attack can tip the balance of the fight in the mesmer's favor and I like the rework where every phantasm actually impacts a fight.

 

Once you've removed Chronophantasma it's much easier to assess and fight phantasm skills.

 

1. Phantasmal Defender is fairly easy to fight against. You can cleanse or stunbreak the taunt and just stay out of range of the explosion. Damage should be capped much lower than instant death levels.

2. Disenchanter shouldn't be doing as much damage as it is. I also feel like the bolt should be bigger, like the Staff Ambush projectile.

3. Avengers are excellently designed on their own. Potentially 2 phantasms, both of which do meaty damage. But there's a huge amount of counter play built in. If you don't hit them while they're attacking, you deny the 2nd phantasm. If you're dodging or line of sighting when the phantasm is spawning you completely prevent it from spawning. There's an obvious tell and a predictable 1.5 second wind up to the phantasm. All around excellently designed skill in my opinion.

4. Sword phantasm leaps at you before doing a flurry attack. You can move out of the way while they're flurrying as they don't move or turn direction.

5. Torch phantasm has an excellent wind up before it's attack, doing the same animation as the Unbound Magic Mining Pick where it floats in the air, moves it's arms back before throwing it's arms forward in a casting direction. Another well telegraphed skill. I'd move the inital burning of the mesmer's cast onto the phantasm's attack though.

6. Staff does it's damage bit by bit over the course of a reasonably paced well telegraphed channel. Condense the skill down into 1 phantasm and it'll be perfect.

7. Greatsword comes out quick but it's the same old phantasm it's always been. Imagined Burden should not spawn a 2nd one for the sake of visual clarity.

8. Focus and Pistol phantasms are frankly not all that great. Focus in particular is just straight up bad.

[NeroBoron.7285]

I like the place where the disenchanter is there are so many classes that can hit with 10k with a single skill on 25 stacks might and that is okay to me as long as there aren't many. And to hit that hard you usually need might, for the disenchanted the target also must have 0 buffs.

 

There are so many skills of other classes that hit that hard or even harder. 30k kill shots of deadeyes, 12k warrior axe F1, 16k backstabs.

 

The real problem in my eyes is how phantasms currently work. They are still some KI that runs around and can be targeted. This should just be an animation like many other skills. So the visual noise would be reduced. People can actually Dodge and have to wat h the mesmer when he uses the skill and not all phantasms. Mesmer can still be interpreted when casting a Phantasm skill.

 

I played Phantasm Mesmer in many forms since the change and it just ridiculous how many names are out if those phantasms chase after the opponent because they are out of reach. I sometimes end up with like 10 names on my screen just by clones and phantasms. Which makes it really annoying for the opponent to tab through them to find me.

 

While I think chronophantasma currently is a really great and awesome and makes Phantasm builds to be viewable I think there need to be some changes. I could imagine that those phantasms are added during the initial cast so only one Dodge has to be used and not 2. Or to add make them usable twice like with the mind wrack trait.

 

While they are so slow they are also overwhelming immobile classes, other mobile classes like thief's are nearly impossible to catch due to phantasms slowness.

Just check out the defender... It spawns next to me and then runs melee range without speedbuffs.

 

PS: you could merge my thread from a few month ago as well:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/27720/full-completion-of-phantasm-skills-are-slow-and-clunky

 

[rank eleven monk.9502]

If you want to nerf Chrono bunker without hurting other builds much, just nerf the stability access to ground (aka change Bountiful Disillusionment).

 

Without constant stability most builds will easily counter it regardless of phantasm spamming. Also revert Imagined Burden (or change it) not to give 2 berserkers.

 

This is the easy way from the top of my head.

[will de grijze jager.6594]

for mirage and

for chrono.

You can see how little training you need for chrono the guy says it self.

THE WHOLE PROBLEEM IS THE DAMAGE OF THE WEAPON SKILLS AND Phantasmal Disenchanter

 

[Turk.5460]

> @"will de grijze jager.6594" said:

>

for mirage and

>

> for chrono.

> You can see how little training you need for chrono the guy says it self.

> THE WHOLE PROBLEEM IS THE DAMAGE OF THE WEAPON SKILLS AND Phantasmal Disenchanter

>

 

Wow this is ridiculous haha.

[Egorum.9506]

 

Chrono is super overtuned, it has so many blocks and invulns you can run pure glass very comfortably

[CruleD.7380]

Whenever I play (mesmer) I contemplate suicide, that's how enjoyable it is.

Thanks to ANet for breaking Mesmer every patch since 2012.