Feedback on the State of the Mesmer [merged]

[Abelisk.4527]

> @"Sampson.2403" said:

> Mesmer and mirage are fine. Chronomancers are the ones that are busted.

 

Mirage is not fine. Elusive Mind hardly got nerfed, cMirage is still really strong, and pMirage is extremely hard-hitting with a good player. It's just Chrono is receiving more attention now due to its monkey-spam, extreme tankiness, and high offense/point-pressure.

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"Vagrant.7206"

> > > I feel embarrassed that i have to write same kitten over and over because you refuse to read or understand idk (i doubt thats problem with my english if DaShi understood me ,i hope xD)

> > > To get explosion by this phantasm you should stand next to it w/o moving like you are EI EF KAY (to begin with) and then i written to get that high number some1 had to attack it ?

> >

> > I feel embarrassed that I have to write this over and over because you refuse to read or understand it.

> >

> > In the middle of a fight with 4 or 5 illusions flying around, visually determining which one is the defender is not as simple as you seem to think it is, especially if you had stability when the defender was activated. The taunt is usually a giant red flag, but if you have stability you'll never notice it. And this is all assuming you're not in a teamfight either. In a teamfight, it's even harder to figure out that there is a defender in the first place.

> >

> > Not to mention, the damage potential on this "defender" is patently absurd. Its utterly indefensible. See what I did there?

> >

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > And if you arent moving and attacking phantasm you clearly deserved to die (obvious tell ...You mean purple thing with DEFENDER name on it that arent moving and on your screen you get 'BLOCKED BLOCKED BLOCKED' when you smash it, not really obvious ?)

> >

> > Oh, I'm sorry. Let me take the time in the middle of a fight with four or five illusions to read each individual one by name, and then go out of my away to avoid the Defender.

>

> Your entire complaint looks like : there too many things on my screen and pretend everywhere you see mesmer is teamfight instasummoning 5 illusions ...

> You trying to make it look defender is so unpreddictable if you playing agaisnt CHRONO. How u even complaint that you play holo and you have AOE damage that evaporate clones/phantasms ? Actually I know your problem : You refuse to play around it and kite phantasms and instead u rush in and die cuz you spamm your sth on all clones and accidently die to defender ? Is that you trying to tell me all this time ?

 

[straw man](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man "Straw man")? Check.

[Ad hominem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem "Ad hominem")? Check.

Addressing my point(s)? Nope.

 

Feel free to keep misinterpreting what I'm saying, I'll keep waiting until you actually have a valid reason for why a single phantasm that's easy to miss in combat is capable of doing so much damage (also, named "defender").

[BlackBeard.2873]

> @"Ragnarox.9601" said:

> 

>

> Bunker guard. They are fine. GG Anet. Dont want to mention other underpowered skills.

 

This seems balanced... Defensive abilities should be 1-shotting

 

We are far enough down the slippery slope of power creep where a skill needs to either invuln, instagib, or full heal to be "impactful"

 

Good Job balance team!! The best of jobs!

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"BlackBeard.2873" said:

> > @"Ragnarox.9601" said:

> > 

> >

> > Bunker guard. They are fine. GG Anet. Dont want to mention other underpowered skills.

>

> This seems balanced... Defensive abilities should be 1-shotting

>

> We are far enough down the slippery slope of power creep where a skill needs to either invuln, instagib, or full heal to be "impactful"

>

> Good Job balance team!! The best of jobs!

 

It's not a defensive skill. The skill is even called Illusion of Defense. Clearly the illusion tricked you.

[Chorazin.4107]

I dont think anybody is arguing about this in a 1v1 on a point scenario. It's discerning what is occurring on point in a 4v4 or 3v3 engagement with pulsing scourge fields, holosmith explosion waves and a clutter of other illusions/phantasms. And as someone said he probably wasnt taunted by this defender, he is a support FB so probably had stab up. He didnt do any dmg to it, being hes a support FB. He just was on point and took 14k lol, because some Scourge or holo were nuking the shit out of it with AoE's.

 

Not to mention any defense skill hitting for 14 000 dmg should probably be reviewed lel.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Chorazin.4107" said:

> I dont think anybody is arguing about this in a 1v1 on a point scenario. It's discerning what is occurring on point in a 4v4 or 3v3 engagement with pulsing scourge fields, holosmith explosion waves and a clutter of other illusions/phantasms. And as someone said he probably wasnt taunted by this defender, he is a support FB so probably had stab up. He didnt do any dmg to it, being hes a support FB. He just was on point and took 14k lol, because some Scourge or holo were nuking the kitten out of it with AoE's.

>

> Not to mention any defense skill hitting for 14 000 dmg should probably be reviewed lel.

 

It's not a defensive skill.

[Razor.6392]

14k damage is totally fine because it has counterplay.

 

I've been saying this, every class needs a very telegraphed 2s cast time 500k damage aoe nuke. It would be very balanced because it can be dodged and interrupted.

[ilmi.5369]

I'd actually like my warrior's FC to do such damage. Wouldn't that be cool? I'm just a single warrior, easy to track and nothing near to the amount of mesmer clones that first need to be identified. After all, it's a clearly telegraphed skill. I mean If I defend a point, people should just dodge or not attack or leave me alone while I'm crunching skulls. People just should not attack me and eat some of my hard hitters without complaining. While we are at it, shield block should be changed to become a skill that does 15K damage when being attacked. Just gimme some rights man and L2P!

 

EDIT:

> @"Razor.6392" said:

> 14k damage is totally fine because it has counterplay.

>

> I've been saying this, every class needs a very telegraphed 2s cast time 500k damage aoe nuke. It would be very balanced because it can be dodged and interrupted.

 

Hell, Yeah!

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> It's not a defensive skill.

 

This! At this point they're just playing dumb.

Pretty sure they know at least one more skill named "defense" that's not a defensive skill.

 

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> Just dodge man, thats what they will tell you.

 

You don't even need to dodge, you only need to walk a few steps away from it, that's how ridiculous this whole thread is.

 

 

[apharma.3741]

> @"Fat Disgrace.4275" said:

> how does this thing hit so hard? i never seen anything like this in wvw and i can;t get anything higher then 5k in pve.

>

> I understand dmg accumulates the more it blocks

 

2 reasons mainly.

 

1. In WvW fights tend to travel around a bit so most of the time people have moved away from where it’s blocking as there no capture point to force people near where it spawns and blocks.

2. In WvW there’s a lot more unblockable, AoE and numbers which means most of the time it’s died before it does it’s attack even in small scale. Think how many spell breakers you see around, 2 full counters will kill it as it has about 7.2k health. Unblockable necro marks, any SD feef and that’s without mentioning the unblockable CC which screws up the AI half the time if it gets interrupted.

[Turk.5460]

> @"DaShi.1368" said:

> That's because many of the posts are from the same people. And about half of them are just "look at how many complaints mesmers have."

 

Well, as long as the thread keeps getting bumped to the top then more people will see it and be able add their own fresh input.

[BMW.2951]

> @"Arlette.9684" said:

> If you get hit by defender, I’m sorry but it’s an l2p issue. What the combat log fails to showcase is that the defender is immobile and has a rather small radius, so simply moving away from it would’ve saved you from taking any damage. You only have yourself to blame.

>

> P.S. I almost forgot everyone’s favorite line.

> Git Gud!

 

Enjoy your nerf on your broken class bro!

[Uncle Dalty.8327]

kitten.... I'll pitch in on this one. This may ultimately be a l2p issue since, as many players have already pointed out, ID is very avoidable.... However, the skill is also called Illusionary DEFENDER, probably because it's suppose to be a defensive cc type skill. Not entirely sure why a defensive based skill is capable of hitting for that much dmg under any circumstance. But I guess that just brings us back to one of the core balance issues with this game.... A large percentage of skills in the game work both defensively and offensively at the same time, or can at least be traited to do so....

[Ghos.1326]

> @"Arlette.9684" said:

> If you get hit by defender, I’m sorry but it’s an l2p issue. What the combat log fails to showcase is that the defender is immobile and has a rather small radius, so simply moving away from it would’ve saved you from taking any damage. You only have yourself to blame.

>

> P.S. I almost forgot everyone’s favorite line.

> Git Gud!

 

You also have to take into account that the defender taunts. So it forces you to run toward it and attack it with autos. It can still be deadly especially if you have quickness up, and an attack that has multiple hits within a single attack, let alone if the enemy timed an enemy aoe multihitting circle properly and used defender after it has been placed down. so it's not so much an l2p issue.

[Theros.1390]

> @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> Look I am bad and I don't understand the mechanics of a profession I am not playing. Also attaching a screenshot about it!

 

Mate,

 

Why are you talking about mechanic ? The OP talks about a DEFENSIVE skill which deals 14k on crit.

 

So yea, the phantasm damages are increased for each hit it gets when it blocks. And then, in a teamfight for exemple, how are you supposed to manage this ?

 

Com'on, 14 k on a defensive skill, by a phantasm you dont even have to shatter.

[Arlette.9684]

> @"BMW.2951" said:

> > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > If you get hit by defender, I’m sorry but it’s an l2p issue. What the combat log fails to showcase is that the defender is immobile and has a rather small radius, so simply moving away from it would’ve saved you from taking any damage. You only have yourself to blame.

> >

> > P.S. I almost forgot everyone’s favorite line.

> > Git Gud!

>

> Enjoy your nerf on your broken class bro!

 

Not sure whose class you’re referring to, I don’t play phantasm chrono so your point is kinda moot.

 

Nice try at baiting tho.

[Odik.4587]

> @"Uncle Dalty.8327" said:

> kitten.... I'll pitch in on this one. This may ultimately be a l2p issue since, as many players have already pointed out, ID is very avoidable.... However, the skill is also called Illusionary DEFENDER, probably because it's suppose to be a defensive cc type skill. Not entirely sure why a defensive based skill is capable of hitting for that much dmg under any circumstance. But I guess that just brings us back to one of the core balance issues with this game.... A large percentage of skills in the game work both defensively and offensively at the same time, or can at least be traited to do so....

 

That skill doesnt provide any defense to be called defensive skill... as everyone trying to tell us that xD

1s taunt on 50s cd and taking utility slot ? Compaed to em... bullcharge (3s knock, good damage 4-7k damage?,evade + movement) on 40/32s cd? Can Mesmer have bullcharge instead of ID ?:D

Previous did small damage and granted 50 and then 33% damage reduction . Now skill does 1s taunt and explode for damage w/o any part of it being defensive for its user.

> @"Theros.1390" said:

> > @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > Look I am bad and I don't understand the mechanics of a profession I am not playing. Also attaching a screenshot about it!

>

> Mate,

>

> Why are you talking about mechanic ? The OP talks about a DEFENSIVE skill which deals 14k on crit.

>

> So yea, the phantasm damages are increased for each hit it gets when it blocks. And then, in a teamfight for exemple, how are you supposed to manage this ?

>

> Com'on, 14 k on a defensive skill, by a phantasm you even dont have to shatter.

 

I'm fail to see which part of this phantasm make you say its DEFENSIVE phantasm ...

Hail Hydra ! I mean rework !

[Uncle Dalty.8327]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Uncle Dalty.8327" said:

> > kitten.... I'll pitch in on this one. This may ultimately be a l2p issue since, as many players have already pointed out, ID is very avoidable.... However, the skill is also called Illusionary DEFENDER, probably because it's suppose to be a defensive cc type skill. Not entirely sure why a defensive based skill is capable of hitting for that much dmg under any circumstance. But I guess that just brings us back to one of the core balance issues with this game.... A large percentage of skills in the game work both defensively and offensively at the same time, or can at least be traited to do so....

>

> That skill doesnt provide any defense to be called defensive skill... as everyone trying to tell us that xD

> 1s taunt on 50s cd and taking utility slot ? Compaed to em... bullcharge (3s knock, good damage 4-7k damage?,evade + movement) on 40/32s cd? Can Mesmer have bullcharge instead of ID ?:D

> Previous did small damage and granted 50 and then 33% damage reduction . Now skill does 1s taunt and explode for damage w/o any part of it being defensive for its user.

 

Guess that skill should be gutted again then... since it sounds like a shit design. One skill should not take out 70-100% of someones health.... not that this is they only skill that can.

[BMW.2951]

> @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > @"BMW.2951" said:

> > > @"Arlette.9684" said:

> > > If you get hit by defender, I’m sorry but it’s an l2p issue. What the combat log fails to showcase is that the defender is immobile and has a rather small radius, so simply moving away from it would’ve saved you from taking any damage. You only have yourself to blame.

> > >

> > > P.S. I almost forgot everyone’s favorite line.

> > > Git Gud!

> >

> > Enjoy your nerf on your broken class bro!

>

> Not sure whose class you’re referring to, I don’t play phantasm chrono so your point is kinda moot.

>

> Nice try at baiting tho.

 

I wasn't baiting? I just know a nerf will be in place for Chrono next balance patch. That is all.

[Math.5123]

One more day of this build. Hopefully.

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> I'm fail to see which part of this phantasm make you say its DEFENSIVE phantasm ...

 

The name, "Phantasmal **DEFENDER**."

[Nokzy Two.1734]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Uncle Dalty.8327" said:

> > kitten.... I'll pitch in on this one. This may ultimately be a l2p issue since, as many players have already pointed out, ID is very avoidable.... However, the skill is also called Illusionary DEFENDER, probably because it's suppose to be a defensive cc type skill. Not entirely sure why a defensive based skill is capable of hitting for that much dmg under any circumstance. But I guess that just brings us back to one of the core balance issues with this game.... A large percentage of skills in the game work both defensively and offensively at the same time, or can at least be traited to do so....

>

> That skill doesnt provide any defense to be called defensive skill... as everyone trying to tell us that xD

> 1s taunt on 50s cd and taking utility slot ? Compaed to em... bullcharge (3s knock, good damage 4-7k damage?,evade + movement) on 40/32s cd? Can Mesmer have bullcharge instead of ID ?:D

> Previous did small damage and granted 50 and then 33% damage reduction . Now skill does 1s taunt and explode for damage w/o any part of it being defensive for its user.

> > @"Theros.1390" said:

> > > @"rank eleven monk.9502" said:

> > > Look I am bad and I don't understand the mechanics of a profession I am not playing. Also attaching a screenshot about it!

> >

> > Mate,

> >

> > Why are you talking about mechanic ? The OP talks about a DEFENSIVE skill which deals 14k on crit.

> >

> > So yea, the phantasm damages are increased for each hit it gets when it blocks. And then, in a teamfight for exemple, how are you supposed to manage this ?

> >

> > Com'on, 14 k on a defensive skill, by a phantasm you even dont have to shatter.

>

> I'm fail to see which part of this phantasm make you say its DEFENSIVE phantasm ...

> Hail Hydra ! I mean rework !

 

Why must you continously play dumb with people... Clearly it's a defensive skill by idk.. It's a Block that spawns the illusion that has Defender in the name, and until the silly change.. Was always a defensive ability... Hmm I can't seem to Imagine where do people get this defensive ability idea kappa

[zoopop.5630]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > I'm fail to see which part of this phantasm make you say its DEFENSIVE phantasm ...

>

> The name, "Phantasmal **DEFENDER**."

 

LOL, but he fails to see which part LOL.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > I'm fail to see which part of this phantasm make you say its DEFENSIVE phantasm ...

>

> The name, "Phantasmal **DEFENDER**."

 

That's kitten gold

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > I'm fail to see which part of this phantasm make you say its DEFENSIVE phantasm ...

>

> The name, "Phantasmal **DEFENDER**."

 

It doesn't provide any defense for the mesmer. At all. It's called defender because it blocks attacks aimed at the phantasm itself. Nothing about the skill defends the mesmer. It's literally just a ticking time bomb you drop on the ground. The max damage should be capped much lower, and the Inspiration grand master that summons one for free should get changed. But calling it a defensive skill is objectively nonsense.