Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"kodesh.2851" said: > Keep complaining it won't matter. They can nerf things all the hell and it won't matter. There are 7 trait lines. I will find the cheese, move it where you will. The same could be said for any class except rev. Poor rev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithilwen.1529 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"Taranis.7451" said: > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > @"Meteor.3720" said: > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > @"Kahyos.1437" said: > > > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > > > > It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > > > > Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had. > > > > > > > > > > > > Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season. > > > > > > > > > > > > For the rest; **Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.** > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > > > > > > > Here is the thing though, you are only up against SILVER Mirages and Chronomancers who most likely have no idea what they are doing. The POTENTIAL of mirages and chronomancers are much higher compared to other classes in the hands of a good player. Have an equally good player use a different class such as Ele or Rev and they wont do as well. > > > > > > > > Not true. I often play unranked and play against all ranks of players. *In fact I have a recent screenshot of myself, having just killed a certain ex-esl engineer and standing over the body.* https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith%20Kill.jpg?dl=0 ( Note the build and my health. I'm nowhere near as unskilled as some posters here have implied. ) > > > > > > > > Mirage is nowhere near as powerful as it's made out to be. The fact that some dislike playing against it is not justification for a nerf. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I love reading your posts. They're always so amusing. > > > Thanks for the laugh. > > > > > > Keep up the strong silver mentality! > > > > > > PS If you think dealing with mirage/ chrono is simply a "learn to play issue", then you are in fact the one who needs to learn to play and realise what your class is capable of in the hands of semi-competent players. > > > > > > Bring on the mesmer nerfs. > > > > I can deal with Mirages and chronos reasonably well, on a core build. So, yes, I do think it's a learn to play issue. > > You will be utterly and completely destroyed by a Platinum or Legendary Mesmer before you had time to react. Any average PvP player can handle Silver or Gold tier players regardless of the class used but these players simply aren't a reflection of the true power of a class. You missed the,( admittedly implied, ) point. I can beat players near my skill level, on a core build. Sometimes I can beat players who are alleged to be considerably better. *It follows that another player should also be able to beat chronos and Mirages near there skill level. That's especially true if another player is using one of the new elite builds.* This is simple logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor.6392 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Address being able to dodge while CC'd, being able to dodge while stomping and lastly the clone generation. No reason why a phantasm should turn into a clone. No reason why stealth application should leave a clone, no reason why Chronophantasma still works the way it does after the phantasm changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopop.5630 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them. > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh! > > > > If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you. > > > > This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had. > > Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season. > > For the rest; **Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.** > > This is a learn to play issue. I also have a left hand issue/condition thats being treated daily/having surgery in june to help fix my left hand random spasm during match ups this shouldn't be an excuse or a scapegoat as to why you'll be in "silver". You can beat anything with any random troll build in silver and bronze it's a different level completely when you're in plat 2-3 and the mirage or mesmer main in general has a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting..... take it from someone who started silver 3 season ago and has been in plat2 for the last 3 seasons. It's a different ball game my friend and it's not the same as unrank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopop.5630 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > @"Meteor.3720" said: > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > @"Kahyos.1437" said: > > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > > > It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > > > Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh! > > > > > > > > > > > > If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you. > > > > > > > > > > > > This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had. > > > > > > > > > > Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season. > > > > > > > > > > For the rest; **Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.** > > > > > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > > > > > Here is the thing though, you are only up against SILVER Mirages and Chronomancers who most likely have no idea what they are doing. The POTENTIAL of mirages and chronomancers are much higher compared to other classes in the hands of a good player. Have an equally good player use a different class such as Ele or Rev and they wont do as well. > > > > > > Not true. I often play unranked and play against all ranks of players. *In fact I have a recent screenshot of myself, having just killed a certain ex-esl engineer and standing over the body.* https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith%20Kill.jpg?dl=0 ( Note the build and my health. I'm nowhere near as unskilled as some posters here have implied. ) > > > > > > Mirage is nowhere near as powerful as it's made out to be. The fact that some dislike playing against it is not justification for a nerf. > > > > > > > > > > I love reading your posts. They're always so amusing. > > Thanks for the laugh. > > > > Keep up the strong silver mentality! > > > > PS If you think dealing with mirage/ chrono is simply a "learn to play issue", then you are in fact the one who needs to learn to play and realise what your class is capable of in the hands of semi-competent players. > > > > Bring on the mesmer nerfs. > > I can deal with Mirages and chronos reasonably well, on a core build. So, yes, I do think it's a learn to play issue. And again....that's on a mesmer , try on a core engi, core necro, core warrior, core ranger, or even core thief..... it's not the same, playing mesmer against mesmer is just about the same just slightly different abilities and 1 trait-line but the cloning issue is still the same. Again not to be rude but i have played against you often in rank/unrank and have camped you multiple times because of how easy it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > Mesmer still can only have 3 not shattered clones at the same time, the problem is the phantasm spam not the clone spam. Is it so hard to understand??? Clones are not phantasms! > > > Phantasm spam leads to the clutter on screen and is combined with the ridiculous high dmg they do on their one attack. Phantasm skills will get higher cd with the planned nerfs but that is not enough. They need to count into the max of 3 illusions up rules again and should get shattered also before they finished their one attack. They still can turn into clones after one attack but they don't need to make exorbitant dmg on this one attack, because no shattermes let phantasms live longer than for one attack anyway. Means: revert 2 of the 3 changes Anet did to phantams and nerf the dmg of most of the phantasmskills. This is spoken only for PvP and WvW. I don't know if it helps to write this that often to higher the chance of Anet think about it but why not try... > > > > Or cap clone to 3 and phantasm to 3 for a total of six illusions total. Currently the issue is you can have 6 phantasms using just traited Gs, f5 and SoE. Limit it to only having three of each retains the clones ability to attack when running mirage and the screen won’t be as cluttered. Then reduce the damage on phantasm *slightly*. Too much and they’ll be useless. A 10-15% reduction on the base damage for sword, zerker, defender, and disenchanter would be a good place to start. Otherwise... I wouldn’t mess with anything outside what they are already doing other than add a 10 sec cd to the stun break portion of elusive mind rather than exhaustion or remove to stun break and compensate it with something else. > > Zerker didn't get buffed and don't need a nerf, it makes the same dmg it does since release of the game. Utility phantasm and sword offhand are the biggest issues, also staff with 2 phantasms now is just too much. And no, already 6 Illusions up is too much clutter and broken. On a moving target where phantasms and clones have to run and don't cast/shatter right from start you will still see tons of illusions out and even 6 is already too much and i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore. > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > Mesmer still can only have 3 not shattered clones at the same time, the problem is the phantasm spam not the clone spam. Is it so hard to understand??? Clones are not phantasms! > > > Phantasm spam leads to the clutter on screen and is combined with the ridiculous high dmg they do on their one attack. Phantasm skills will get higher cd with the planned nerfs but that is not enough. They need to count into the max of 3 illusions up rules again and should get shattered also before they finished their one attack. They still can turn into clones after one attack but they don't need to make exorbitant dmg on this one attack, because no shattermes let phantasms live longer than for one attack anyway. Means: revert 2 of the 3 changes Anet did to phantams and nerf the dmg of most of the phantasmskills. This is spoken only for PvP and WvW. I don't know if it helps to write this that often to higher the chance of Anet think about it but why not try... > > > > Or cap clone to 3 and phantasm to 3 for a total of six illusions total. Currently the issue is you can have 6 phantasms using just traited Gs, f5 and SoE. Limit it to only having three of each retains the clones ability to attack when running mirage and the screen won’t be as cluttered. Then reduce the damage on phantasm *slightly*. Too much and they’ll be useless. A 10-15% reduction on the base damage for sword, zerker, defender, and disenchanter would be a good place to start. Otherwise... I wouldn’t mess with anything outside what they are already doing other than add a 10 sec cd to the stun break portion of elusive mind rather than exhaustion or remove to stun break and compensate it with something else. > > Zerker didn't get buffed and don't need a nerf, it makes the same dmg it does since release of the game. Utility phantasm and sword offhand are the biggest issues, also staff with 2 phantasms now is just too much. And no, already 6 Illusions up is too much clutter and broken. On a moving target where phantasms and clones have to run and don't cast/shatter right from start you will still see tons of illusions out and even 6 is already too much and i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore. Zerker did get a buff when the Gs GM trait is taken as you two zerker doing 50% more damage. Anet would have to revert phantasm changes across all game modes and that is highly unlikely. So you’re best bet is to add a limit of the number of phantasm. 3 is a solid number as it accounts for having one set be two handed and the other a main and off hand. Swordsman not as strong as made out because it’s highly telegraphed. Disenchanter bounces and strips boons so it’s strong. How people are getting hit with defender is confusing to be but whatever. Staff phantasms are fine as they are. So in short, you need to come up with a better idea than reverting because it’s not going to happen. The PvE outcry would be more than Anet would want to put up with and they’ve stated they can split functions. When you want to have a logical conversation about it let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > Remember when all the mesmers were crying that Warriors were Arenanet's favored child? > > Ha ha haha. That didn't change at all....dunno if you took the time to look at gw2 metabattle metabattle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithranArkanere.8957 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Well, as long as they do not go condition or interrupt kall's warband, mesmers can't do much against a jalis/kalla revenant. Phantams get interrupted and turn into clones, and the clones die quickly. But with a greatsword and shatters they can easily interrupt them and they leave, while a mesmer can pop another clone right away. If the recharge of renegade skills was tied to the time the spirit was up, or if there was a trait to give them stability more easily other than quickly switching to jallies and dropping the road hoping it was fast enough, we'd have at least 1 decent counter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithilwen.1529 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them. > > > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh! > > > > > > If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you. > > > > > > This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had. > > > > Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season. > > > > For the rest; **Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.** > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > I also have a left hand issue/condition thats being treated daily/having surgery in june to help fix my left hand random spasm during match ups this shouldn't be an excuse or a scapegoat as to why you'll be in "silver". > > You can beat anything with any random troll build in silver and bronze it's a different level completely when you're in plat 2-3 and the mirage or mesmer main in general has a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting..... take it from someone who started silver 3 season ago and has been in plat2 for the last 3 seasons. It's a different ball game my friend and it's not the same as unrank. It's not an excuse or scapegoat. I use both a razer tartarus ( for ergonomics) and a naga gaming mouse to make up most of the speed. As I pointed out in another post. I have beaten at least one former ESL player I met in unranked. So, yes I do have a certain skill level. Unranked is an interesting grab bag and recent matches have been seemed to be against plat rated players as often as not. A direct quote from your post: "it's a different level completely when you're in plat 2-3 and the mirage or mesmer main in general has a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting..... " *As I understand it, You're saying that only a Mesmer can counter a Mesmer, **because she understands the class and the mechanics**.* If that is the case then the way to deal with Mesmer is to gain "a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting." (sic) **As I said, this is a learn to play issue.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odik.4587 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"zoopop.5630" said: > And again....that's on a mesmer , try on a core engi, core necro, core warrior, core ranger, or even core thief..... it's not the same, playing mesmer against mesmer is just about the same just slightly different abilities and 1 trait-line but the cloning issue is still the same. Core engi and core necro wont kill anyone ... 4 Plasma isnt enough to freewin mesmer ? You and me in different dimensions it seems > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > Anet would have to revert phantasm changes across all game modes and that is highly unlikely. > Swordsman not as strong as made out because it’s highly telegraphed. Disenchanter bounces and strips boons so it’s strong. How people are getting hit with defender is confusing to be but whatever. Staff phantasms are fine as they are. ^A thief, stolen everything from my post adressed to you :> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoopop.5630 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them. > > > > > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh! > > > > > > > > If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you. > > > > > > > > This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had. > > > > > > Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season. > > > > > > For the rest; **Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.** > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > I also have a left hand issue/condition thats being treated daily/having surgery in june to help fix my left hand random spasm during match ups this shouldn't be an excuse or a scapegoat as to why you'll be in "silver". > > > > You can beat anything with any random troll build in silver and bronze it's a different level completely when you're in plat 2-3 and the mirage or mesmer main in general has a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting..... take it from someone who started silver 3 season ago and has been in plat2 for the last 3 seasons. It's a different ball game my friend and it's not the same as unrank. > > It's not an excuse or scapegoat. I use both a razer tartarus ( for ergonomics) and a naga gaming mouse to make up most of the speed. > > As I pointed out in another post. I have beaten at least one former ESL player I met in unranked. So, yes I do have a certain skill level. Unranked is an interesting grab bag and recent matches have been seemed to be against plat rated players as often as not. > > A direct quote from your post: "it's a different level completely when you're in plat 2-3 and the mirage or mesmer main in general has a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting..... " *As I understand it, You're saying that only a Mesmer can counter a Mesmer, **because she understands the class and the mechanics**.* > > If that is the case then the way to deal with Mesmer is to gain "a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting." (sic) > > **As I said, this is a learn to play issue.** > Learn to play issue isn't the "issue" at hand LIKE i said the amount of clones being dropped during a fight and the UP time they have is the issue 1 being a complete cluster fuck, and 2 giving the class enough sustain with f4 /f5 or easy burst combo with hardly any skills needed. However if you want to go back and forth with everyone about how it's a "learn to play issue" then feel free to do so because it won't get you anywhere at all when your clueless to what making "OP" and "broken" with enough training wheels to make them easy to play compared to before where it took a bit more effort and knowledge of the class. btw "beating' an ESL player means absolutely nada and Which i already DOUBT you really did.....If your struggling to climb out of silver after more then a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandzibar.5134 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 So the solution to game balance issues regarding mesmer is to have everyone play as Mesmer, as a mesmer can beat a mesmer? Thanks for your non-biased input as always Ithilwen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > @"kodesh.2851" said: > > Keep complaining it won't matter. They can nerf things all the hell and it won't matter. There are 7 trait lines. I will find the cheese, move it where you will. > > The same could be said for any class except rev. Poor rev > At least you got renegade for pve. Herald might be in a bad place, because heck having 1 niche role is ridiculous. Not sure why renegade is considered bad in pvp, i would need a massive explanation as to the issues with renegade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithilwen.1529 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > > It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > > Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh! > > > > > > > > > > If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you. > > > > > > > > > > This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had. > > > > > > > > Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season. > > > > > > > > For the rest; **Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.** > > > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > > > I also have a left hand issue/condition thats being treated daily/having surgery in june to help fix my left hand random spasm during match ups this shouldn't be an excuse or a scapegoat as to why you'll be in "silver". > > > > > > You can beat anything with any random troll build in silver and bronze it's a different level completely when you're in plat 2-3 and the mirage or mesmer main in general has a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting..... take it from someone who started silver 3 season ago and has been in plat2 for the last 3 seasons. It's a different ball game my friend and it's not the same as unrank. > > > > It's not an excuse or scapegoat. I use both a razer tartarus ( for ergonomics) and a naga gaming mouse to make up most of the speed. > > > > As I pointed out in another post. I have beaten at least one former ESL player I met in unranked. So, yes I do have a certain skill level. Unranked is an interesting grab bag and recent matches have been seemed to be against plat rated players as often as not. > > > > A direct quote from your post: "it's a different level completely when you're in plat 2-3 and the mirage or mesmer main in general has a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting..... " *As I understand it, You're saying that only a Mesmer can counter a Mesmer, **because she understands the class and the mechanics**.* > > > > If that is the case then the way to deal with Mesmer is to gain "a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting." (sic) > > > > **As I said, this is a learn to play issue.** > > > > Learn to play issue isn't the "issue" at hand LIKE i said the amount of clones being dropped during a fight and the UP time they have is the issue 1 being a complete cluster kitten, and 2 giving the class enough sustain with f4 /f5 or easy burst combo with hardly any skills needed. However if you want to go back and forth with everyone about how it's a "learn to play issue" then feel free to do so because it won't get you anywhere at all when your clueless to what making "OP" and "broken" with enough training wheels to make them easy to play compared to before where it took a bit more effort and knowledge of the class. > > btw "beating' an ESL player means absolutely nada and Which i already DOUBT you really did.....If your struggling to climb out of silver after more then a season. > > Mesmer was redesigned expressly to break non shattering "passive" playstyles. **This necessitates more clones.** By happy coincidence, it also finally makes Mesmer a little bit confusing to play against. This has been a dream for years. There would be essentially 3 possibilities for reducing clones: cripple Mesmer utterly, revert the entire last redesign or greatly buff the clones. The last option would more or less create a GW2 Ritualist with mobile spirits. With respect to "hardly any skill needed." I suggest you give it a try. That's me, at the 3v3 mid fight, standing over the body of the former esl play whom I have just stomped. Notice my pre-HoT PU Mesmer build. https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith My point being that I do in fact have credible skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > @"Kahyos.1437" said: > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them. > > > > > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh! > > > > > > > > If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you. > > > > > > > > This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had. > > > > > > Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season. > > > > > > For the rest; **Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.** > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > Here is the thing though, you are only up against SILVER Mirages and Chronomancers who most likely have no idea what they are doing. The POTENTIAL of mirages and chronomancers are much higher compared to other classes in the hands of a good player. Have an equally good player use a different class such as Ele or Rev and they wont do as well. > > Not true. I often play unranked and play against all ranks of players. *In fact I have a recent screenshot of myself, having just killed a certain ex-esl engineer and standing over the body.* https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith%20Kill.jpg?dl=0 ( Note the build and my health. I'm nowhere near as unskilled as some posters here have implied. ) > > Mirage is nowhere near as powerful as it's made out to be. The fact that some dislike playing against it is not justification for a nerf. > > Try it in a 1v1 instead. You just stomped Chaithh after the thief downed him in a **team fight**. That screenshot literally means nothing. Record a video of yourself 1v1ing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithilwen.1529 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > @"Kahyos.1437" said: > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > > It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > > Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh! > > > > > > > > > > If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you. > > > > > > > > > > This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had. > > > > > > > > Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season. > > > > > > > > For the rest; **Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.** > > > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > > > Here is the thing though, you are only up against SILVER Mirages and Chronomancers who most likely have no idea what they are doing. The POTENTIAL of mirages and chronomancers are much higher compared to other classes in the hands of a good player. Have an equally good player use a different class such as Ele or Rev and they wont do as well. > > > > Not true. I often play unranked and play against all ranks of players. *In fact I have a recent screenshot of myself, having just killed a certain ex-esl engineer and standing over the body.* https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith%20Kill.jpg?dl=0 ( Note the build and my health. I'm nowhere near as unskilled as some posters here have implied. ) > > > > Mirage is nowhere near as powerful as it's made out to be. The fact that some dislike playing against it is not justification for a nerf. > > > > > > Try it in a 1v1 instead. > > You just stomped Chaithh after the thief downed him in a **team fight**. > > That screenshot literally means nothing. Record a video of yourself 1v1ing him. No, I killed him when he over extended in a team fight. Did I 1v1? No, I used the tactical situation to my advantage and trashed him when he was vulnerable. *That's an aspect of skilled play.* There's an NPC in HoTM that paraphrases Tsun Tsu. The actual quote, (Jame Clavell's translation, ) is: "He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"Axl.8924" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"kodesh.2851" said: > > > Keep complaining it won't matter. They can nerf things all the hell and it won't matter. There are 7 trait lines. I will find the cheese, move it where you will. > > > > The same could be said for any class except rev. Poor rev > > > > At least you got renegade for pve. > > Herald might be in a bad place, because heck having 1 niche role is ridiculous. > > Not sure why renegade is considered bad in pvp, i would need a massive explanation as to the issues with renegade. It’s simple. Rev is outperformed by other classes. That’s it. You’re correct it’s not bad but it cannot outperform any class. So it’s bad in the since that it doesn’t hold up. If all classes performed on the same level as rev it would be different but they don’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egorum.9506 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > > > It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > > > Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh! > > > > > > > > > > > > If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you. > > > > > > > > > > > > This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had. > > > > > > > > > > Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season. > > > > > > > > > > For the rest; **Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.** > > > > > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > > > > > I also have a left hand issue/condition thats being treated daily/having surgery in june to help fix my left hand random spasm during match ups this shouldn't be an excuse or a scapegoat as to why you'll be in "silver". > > > > > > > > You can beat anything with any random troll build in silver and bronze it's a different level completely when you're in plat 2-3 and the mirage or mesmer main in general has a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting..... take it from someone who started silver 3 season ago and has been in plat2 for the last 3 seasons. It's a different ball game my friend and it's not the same as unrank. > > > > > > It's not an excuse or scapegoat. I use both a razer tartarus ( for ergonomics) and a naga gaming mouse to make up most of the speed. > > > > > > As I pointed out in another post. I have beaten at least one former ESL player I met in unranked. So, yes I do have a certain skill level. Unranked is an interesting grab bag and recent matches have been seemed to be against plat rated players as often as not. > > > > > > A direct quote from your post: "it's a different level completely when you're in plat 2-3 and the mirage or mesmer main in general has a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting..... " *As I understand it, You're saying that only a Mesmer can counter a Mesmer, **because she understands the class and the mechanics**.* > > > > > > If that is the case then the way to deal with Mesmer is to gain "a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting." (sic) > > > > > > **As I said, this is a learn to play issue.** > > > > > > > Learn to play issue isn't the "issue" at hand LIKE i said the amount of clones being dropped during a fight and the UP time they have is the issue 1 being a complete cluster kitten, and 2 giving the class enough sustain with f4 /f5 or easy burst combo with hardly any skills needed. However if you want to go back and forth with everyone about how it's a "learn to play issue" then feel free to do so because it won't get you anywhere at all when your clueless to what making "OP" and "broken" with enough training wheels to make them easy to play compared to before where it took a bit more effort and knowledge of the class. > > > > btw "beating' an ESL player means absolutely nada and Which i already DOUBT you really did.....If your struggling to climb out of silver after more then a season. > > > > > > Mesmer was redesigned expressly to break non shattering "passive" playstyles. **This necessitates more clones.** By happy coincidence, it also finally makes Mesmer a little bit confusing to play against. This has been a dream for years. > > There would be essentially 3 possibilities for reducing clones: cripple Mesmer utterly, revert the entire last redesign or greatly buff the clones. The last option would more or less create a GW2 Ritualist with mobile spirits. > > With respect to "hardly any skill needed." I suggest you give it a try. > > That's me, at the 3v3 mid fight, standing over the body of the former esl play whom I have just stomped. Notice my pre-HoT PU Mesmer build. https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith So as an off meta silver player you beat a top 50 engineer and you think the class is not overtuned? That makes sense. Here's a video of me playing mesmer. I have less than 50h played on the class over the last 5 years, I'm not even using the meta build man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bravan.3876 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > Mesmer still can only have 3 not shattered clones at the same time, the problem is the phantasm spam not the clone spam. Is it so hard to understand??? Clones are not phantasms! > > > > Phantasm spam leads to the clutter on screen and is combined with the ridiculous high dmg they do on their one attack. Phantasm skills will get higher cd with the planned nerfs but that is not enough. They need to count into the max of 3 illusions up rules again and should get shattered also before they finished their one attack. They still can turn into clones after one attack but they don't need to make exorbitant dmg on this one attack, because no shattermes let phantasms live longer than for one attack anyway. Means: revert 2 of the 3 changes Anet did to phantams and nerf the dmg of most of the phantasmskills. This is spoken only for PvP and WvW. I don't know if it helps to write this that often to higher the chance of Anet think about it but why not try... > > > > > > Or cap clone to 3 and phantasm to 3 for a total of six illusions total. Currently the issue is you can have 6 phantasms using just traited Gs, f5 and SoE. Limit it to only having three of each retains the clones ability to attack when running mirage and the screen won’t be as cluttered. Then reduce the damage on phantasm *slightly*. Too much and they’ll be useless. A 10-15% reduction on the base damage for sword, zerker, defender, and disenchanter would be a good place to start. Otherwise... I wouldn’t mess with anything outside what they are already doing other than add a 10 sec cd to the stun break portion of elusive mind rather than exhaustion or remove to stun break and compensate it with something else. > > > > Zerker didn't get buffed and don't need a nerf, it makes the same dmg it does since release of the game. Utility phantasm and sword offhand are the biggest issues, also staff with 2 phantasms now is just too much. And no, already 6 Illusions up is too much clutter and broken. On a moving target where phantasms and clones have to run and don't cast/shatter right from start you will still see tons of illusions out and even 6 is already too much and i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore. > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > Mesmer still can only have 3 not shattered clones at the same time, the problem is the phantasm spam not the clone spam. Is it so hard to understand??? Clones are not phantasms! > > > > Phantasm spam leads to the clutter on screen and is combined with the ridiculous high dmg they do on their one attack. Phantasm skills will get higher cd with the planned nerfs but that is not enough. They need to count into the max of 3 illusions up rules again and should get shattered also before they finished their one attack. They still can turn into clones after one attack but they don't need to make exorbitant dmg on this one attack, because no shattermes let phantasms live longer than for one attack anyway. Means: revert 2 of the 3 changes Anet did to phantams and nerf the dmg of most of the phantasmskills. This is spoken only for PvP and WvW. I don't know if it helps to write this that often to higher the chance of Anet think about it but why not try... > > > > > > Or cap clone to 3 and phantasm to 3 for a total of six illusions total. Currently the issue is you can have 6 phantasms using just traited Gs, f5 and SoE. Limit it to only having three of each retains the clones ability to attack when running mirage and the screen won’t be as cluttered. Then reduce the damage on phantasm *slightly*. Too much and they’ll be useless. A 10-15% reduction on the base damage for sword, zerker, defender, and disenchanter would be a good place to start. Otherwise... I wouldn’t mess with anything outside what they are already doing other than add a 10 sec cd to the stun break portion of elusive mind rather than exhaustion or remove to stun break and compensate it with something else. > > > > Zerker didn't get buffed and don't need a nerf, it makes the same dmg it does since release of the game. Utility phantasm and sword offhand are the biggest issues, also staff with 2 phantasms now is just too much. And no, already 6 Illusions up is too much clutter and broken. On a moving target where phantasms and clones have to run and don't cast/shatter right from start you will still see tons of illusions out and even 6 is already too much and i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore. > > Zerker did get a buff when the Gs GM trait is taken as you two zerker doing 50% more damage. > Anet would have to revert phantasm changes across all game modes and that is highly unlikely. So you’re best bet is to add a limit of the number of phantasm. 3 is a solid number as it accounts for having one set be two handed and the other a main and off hand. > Swordsman not as strong as made out because it’s highly telegraphed. Disenchanter bounces and strips boons so it’s strong. How people are getting hit with defender is confusing to be but whatever. Staff phantasms are fine as they are. > > So in short, you need to come up with a better idea than reverting because it’s not going to happen. The PvE outcry would be more than Anet would want to put up with and they’ve stated they can split functions. When you want to have a logical conversation about it let me know. Anet is about to split skills for wvw/ pvp and pve, all i said is ofc only meant for pvp/wvw, and no you pls don't reduce the zerker dmg because of a new stupid trait gives you now 2 zerker. And the trait says 2 zerker but they do 50% less dmg each so the over all dmg from both is the same like one zerker without that trait (not included that 2 zerker have a better chance to crit than only one ofc). The double zerker trait is just stupid because it leads to more screen clutter and gives to much access to clones. Telegraphed skills don't help when you have to take care of 6 (with your proposal) or even more illusions up and the player itself. In conquest when you are maybe even in a teamfight with more than one opponent it gets even worse, you need to be a robot to take care of everyhting that happens on screen with only one mesmer in teamfight and "only" 6 Illusions up. As said i play mesmer as third most played class myself often enough and i can understand that it is annoying to play against the phantasm spam builds and can understand that ppl get hit by phantasm skills no matter how telegraphed they maybe are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithilwen.1529 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"Egorum.9506" said: > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said: > > > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > > > > It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > > > > Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had. > > > > > > > > > > > > Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season. > > > > > > > > > > > > For the rest; **Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.** > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > > > > > > > I also have a left hand issue/condition thats being treated daily/having surgery in june to help fix my left hand random spasm during match ups this shouldn't be an excuse or a scapegoat as to why you'll be in "silver". > > > > > > > > > > You can beat anything with any random troll build in silver and bronze it's a different level completely when you're in plat 2-3 and the mirage or mesmer main in general has a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting..... take it from someone who started silver 3 season ago and has been in plat2 for the last 3 seasons. It's a different ball game my friend and it's not the same as unrank. > > > > > > > > It's not an excuse or scapegoat. I use both a razer tartarus ( for ergonomics) and a naga gaming mouse to make up most of the speed. > > > > > > > > As I pointed out in another post. I have beaten at least one former ESL player I met in unranked. So, yes I do have a certain skill level. Unranked is an interesting grab bag and recent matches have been seemed to be against plat rated players as often as not. > > > > > > > > A direct quote from your post: "it's a different level completely when you're in plat 2-3 and the mirage or mesmer main in general has a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting..... " *As I understand it, You're saying that only a Mesmer can counter a Mesmer, **because she understands the class and the mechanics**.* > > > > > > > > If that is the case then the way to deal with Mesmer is to gain "a stupid understanding on how the class works and how to counter what hes fighting." (sic) > > > > > > > > **As I said, this is a learn to play issue.** > > > > > > > > > > Learn to play issue isn't the "issue" at hand LIKE i said the amount of clones being dropped during a fight and the UP time they have is the issue 1 being a complete cluster kitten, and 2 giving the class enough sustain with f4 /f5 or easy burst combo with hardly any skills needed. However if you want to go back and forth with everyone about how it's a "learn to play issue" then feel free to do so because it won't get you anywhere at all when your clueless to what making "OP" and "broken" with enough training wheels to make them easy to play compared to before where it took a bit more effort and knowledge of the class. > > > > > > btw "beating' an ESL player means absolutely nada and Which i already DOUBT you really did.....If your struggling to climb out of silver after more then a season. > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer was redesigned expressly to break non shattering "passive" playstyles. **This necessitates more clones.** By happy coincidence, it also finally makes Mesmer a little bit confusing to play against. This has been a dream for years. > > > > There would be essentially 3 possibilities for reducing clones: cripple Mesmer utterly, revert the entire last redesign or greatly buff the clones. The last option would more or less create a GW2 Ritualist with mobile spirits. > > > > With respect to "hardly any skill needed." I suggest you give it a try. > > > > That's me, at the 3v3 mid fight, standing over the body of the former esl play whom I have just stomped. Notice my pre-HoT PU Mesmer build. https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith > > So as an off meta silver player you beat a top 50 engineer and you think the class is not overtuned? That makes sense. > > Here's a video of me playing mesmer. I have less than 50h played on the class over the last 5 years, I'm not even using the meta build man. > > You know what? Wow... I see "Ruthless Legend" Titles in that video, yet the players passively ignore a gs shatter Mesmer playing in a fashion that very few would. That doesn't look right to me. I will be emailing ANET on the subject. **This video looks like it might have been staged.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahyos.1437 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > @"Kahyos.1437" said: > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them. > > > > > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh! > > > > > > > > If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you. > > > > > > > > This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had. > > > > > > Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season. > > > > > > For the rest; **Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.** > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > Here is the thing though, you are only up against SILVER Mirages and Chronomancers who most likely have no idea what they are doing. The POTENTIAL of mirages and chronomancers are much higher compared to other classes in the hands of a good player. Have an equally good player use a different class such as Ele or Rev and they wont do as well. > > Not true. I often play unranked and play against all ranks of players. *In fact I have a recent screenshot of myself, having just killed a certain ex-esl engineer and standing over the body.* https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith%20Kill.jpg?dl=0 ( Note the build and my health. I'm nowhere near as unskilled as some posters here have implied. ) > > Mirage is nowhere near as powerful as it's made out to be. The fact that some dislike playing against it is not justification for a nerf. > > Ok, so you can understand, try playing mirage and see where that gets you. Next, study revenant, ele, or any other class, and see if you can achieve the same results. It seems you are misunderstanding how a potential of a class or build works. If I play mirage or chrono, given a set amount of time and practice, I will most likely perform MUCH better when compared to spending the same (if not more) amount of time on other classes. That's the thing, a player doesn't have to be as skilled as me to beat me if they are using mirage, they can spam bursts and disengage for cooldowns. It is much the same way why people hate scourges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahyos.1437 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > @"Meteor.3720" said: > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > @"Kahyos.1437" said: > > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > > > It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > > > Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh! > > > > > > > > > > > > If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you. > > > > > > > > > > > > This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had. > > > > > > > > > > Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season. > > > > > > > > > > For the rest; **Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.** > > > > > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > > > > > Here is the thing though, you are only up against SILVER Mirages and Chronomancers who most likely have no idea what they are doing. The POTENTIAL of mirages and chronomancers are much higher compared to other classes in the hands of a good player. Have an equally good player use a different class such as Ele or Rev and they wont do as well. > > > > > > Not true. I often play unranked and play against all ranks of players. *In fact I have a recent screenshot of myself, having just killed a certain ex-esl engineer and standing over the body.* https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith%20Kill.jpg?dl=0 ( Note the build and my health. I'm nowhere near as unskilled as some posters here have implied. ) > > > > > > Mirage is nowhere near as powerful as it's made out to be. The fact that some dislike playing against it is not justification for a nerf. > > > > > > > > > > I love reading your posts. They're always so amusing. > > Thanks for the laugh. > > > > Keep up the strong silver mentality! > > > > PS If you think dealing with mirage/ chrono is simply a "learn to play issue", then you are in fact the one who needs to learn to play and realise what your class is capable of in the hands of semi-competent players. > > > > Bring on the mesmer nerfs. > > I can deal with Mirages and chronos reasonably well, on a core build. So, yes, I do think it's a learn to play issue. You were up against players of lower skill than you. You said yourself you have a good grasp of the game, and yet you are on silver with a non-meta build. Try using mirage and chrono, you might reach gold. I hope that helps you understand how balance (or the lack of it) works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace al Thor.6745 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"bravan.3876" said: > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > Mesmer still can only have 3 not shattered clones at the same time, the problem is the phantasm spam not the clone spam. Is it so hard to understand??? Clones are not phantasms! > > > > > Phantasm spam leads to the clutter on screen and is combined with the ridiculous high dmg they do on their one attack. Phantasm skills will get higher cd with the planned nerfs but that is not enough. They need to count into the max of 3 illusions up rules again and should get shattered also before they finished their one attack. They still can turn into clones after one attack but they don't need to make exorbitant dmg on this one attack, because no shattermes let phantasms live longer than for one attack anyway. Means: revert 2 of the 3 changes Anet did to phantams and nerf the dmg of most of the phantasmskills. This is spoken only for PvP and WvW. I don't know if it helps to write this that often to higher the chance of Anet think about it but why not try... > > > > > > > > Or cap clone to 3 and phantasm to 3 for a total of six illusions total. Currently the issue is you can have 6 phantasms using just traited Gs, f5 and SoE. Limit it to only having three of each retains the clones ability to attack when running mirage and the screen won’t be as cluttered. Then reduce the damage on phantasm *slightly*. Too much and they’ll be useless. A 10-15% reduction on the base damage for sword, zerker, defender, and disenchanter would be a good place to start. Otherwise... I wouldn’t mess with anything outside what they are already doing other than add a 10 sec cd to the stun break portion of elusive mind rather than exhaustion or remove to stun break and compensate it with something else. > > > > > > Zerker didn't get buffed and don't need a nerf, it makes the same dmg it does since release of the game. Utility phantasm and sword offhand are the biggest issues, also staff with 2 phantasms now is just too much. And no, already 6 Illusions up is too much clutter and broken. On a moving target where phantasms and clones have to run and don't cast/shatter right from start you will still see tons of illusions out and even 6 is already too much and i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore. > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > @"Jace al Thor.6745" said: > > > > > @"bravan.3876" said: > > > > > Mesmer still can only have 3 not shattered clones at the same time, the problem is the phantasm spam not the clone spam. Is it so hard to understand??? Clones are not phantasms! > > > > > Phantasm spam leads to the clutter on screen and is combined with the ridiculous high dmg they do on their one attack. Phantasm skills will get higher cd with the planned nerfs but that is not enough. They need to count into the max of 3 illusions up rules again and should get shattered also before they finished their one attack. They still can turn into clones after one attack but they don't need to make exorbitant dmg on this one attack, because no shattermes let phantasms live longer than for one attack anyway. Means: revert 2 of the 3 changes Anet did to phantams and nerf the dmg of most of the phantasmskills. This is spoken only for PvP and WvW. I don't know if it helps to write this that often to higher the chance of Anet think about it but why not try... > > > > > > > > Or cap clone to 3 and phantasm to 3 for a total of six illusions total. Currently the issue is you can have 6 phantasms using just traited Gs, f5 and SoE. Limit it to only having three of each retains the clones ability to attack when running mirage and the screen won’t be as cluttered. Then reduce the damage on phantasm *slightly*. Too much and they’ll be useless. A 10-15% reduction on the base damage for sword, zerker, defender, and disenchanter would be a good place to start. Otherwise... I wouldn’t mess with anything outside what they are already doing other than add a 10 sec cd to the stun break portion of elusive mind rather than exhaustion or remove to stun break and compensate it with something else. > > > > > > Zerker didn't get buffed and don't need a nerf, it makes the same dmg it does since release of the game. Utility phantasm and sword offhand are the biggest issues, also staff with 2 phantasms now is just too much. And no, already 6 Illusions up is too much clutter and broken. On a moving target where phantasms and clones have to run and don't cast/shatter right from start you will still see tons of illusions out and even 6 is already too much and i don't see a single reason why phantasms shouldn't count into the max of 3 limit TOGETHER with clones anymore. > > > > Zerker did get a buff when the Gs GM trait is taken as you two zerker doing 50% more damage. > > Anet would have to revert phantasm changes across all game modes and that is highly unlikely. So you’re best bet is to add a limit of the number of phantasm. 3 is a solid number as it accounts for having one set be two handed and the other a main and off hand. > > Swordsman not as strong as made out because it’s highly telegraphed. Disenchanter bounces and strips boons so it’s strong. How people are getting hit with defender is confusing to be but whatever. Staff phantasms are fine as they are. > > > > So in short, you need to come up with a better idea than reverting because it’s not going to happen. The PvE outcry would be more than Anet would want to put up with and they’ve stated they can split functions. When you want to have a logical conversation about it let me know. > > Anet is about to split skills for wvw/ pvp and pve, all i said is ofc only meant for pvp/wvw, and no you pls don't reduce the zerker dmg because of a new stupid trait gives you now 2 zerker. And the trait says 2 zerker but they do 50% less dmg each so the over all dmg from both is the same like one zerker without that trait (not included that 2 zerker have a better chance to crit than only one ofc). The double zerker trait is just stupid because it leads to more screen clutter and gives to much access to clones. Telegraphed skills don't help when you have to take care of 6 (with your proposal) or even more illusions up and the player itself. In conquest when you are maybe even in a teamfight with more than one opponent it gets even worse, you need to be a robot to take care of everyhting that happens on screen with only one mesmer in teamfight and "only" 6 Illusions up. As said i play mesmer as third most played class myself often enough and i can understand that it is annoying to play against the phantasm spam builds and can understand that ppl get hit by phantasm skills no matter how telegraphed they maybe are. I think you’re getting confused by what they’re actually splitting vs what you want split. You want the FUNCTION of it split. They can’t do that. Confusion is the most obvious thing presently. It still has a small passive tick in PvP because they can’t have it only tick on skill use in PvP and have passive tick in PvE. Therefore they can’t have a the old illusion set up and maintain the new in PvE. It’s a coding issue. Which means you have to come up with an idea that fits into the new skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithilwen.1529 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"Kahyos.1437" said: > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > @"Kahyos.1437" said: > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > > It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > > Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh! > > > > > > > > > > If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you. > > > > > > > > > > This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had. > > > > > > > > Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season. > > > > > > > > For the rest; **Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.** > > > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > > > Here is the thing though, you are only up against SILVER Mirages and Chronomancers who most likely have no idea what they are doing. The POTENTIAL of mirages and chronomancers are much higher compared to other classes in the hands of a good player. Have an equally good player use a different class such as Ele or Rev and they wont do as well. > > > > Not true. I often play unranked and play against all ranks of players. *In fact I have a recent screenshot of myself, having just killed a certain ex-esl engineer and standing over the body.* https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith%20Kill.jpg?dl=0 ( Note the build and my health. I'm nowhere near as unskilled as some posters here have implied. ) > > > > Mirage is nowhere near as powerful as it's made out to be. The fact that some dislike playing against it is not justification for a nerf. > > > > > > Ok, so you can understand, try playing mirage and see where that gets you. Next, study revenant, ele, or any other class, and see if you can achieve the same results. It seems you are misunderstanding how a potential of a class or build works. If I play mirage or chrono, given a set amount of time and practice, I will most likely perform MUCH better when compared to spending the same (if not more) amount of time on other classes. That's the thing, a player doesn't have to be as skilled as me to beat me if they are using mirage, they can spam bursts and disengage for cooldowns. It is much the same way why people hate scourges. Ah, but that's just the point. I don't agree that Mirage or Chrono is anywhere near as easy to play as say... sb or Scourge. Yes, Mirage is capable of really ripping it up... but it takes considerable skill and practice, more than for other classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kahyos.1437 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said: > > > > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kahyos.1437" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ithilwen.1529" said: > > > > > > > > > > > It's about time that other players actually had to think to play against a Mesmer and target the real Mesmer instead of simply cleaving the clones with auto attack, ( or any type of aoe, ) and ignoring them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > > > > > > > Dear silver division player: Thanks for the laugh! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you were skillful enough to use your classes full potential, you would have noticed that you can do an almost perfect rotation of range, distorsion and evades while spamming and shatter stuff. Even if your opponent tracks you for about 90% of the fight (which is super easy but useless), it is impossible to pressure you enough to force you into defense (and create momentum) or even kill you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This class has more training wheels than warrior ever had. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Silver Division player? Yes, proudly so. I fought my way from Bronze 1 to Silver 3, learning the hard way at every step. This is in spite of having physical problems with my left hand and the fact that I choose to play a core Mesmer, ( partly in protest of the way Chronomancer was treated with respect to nerfs and alacrity and partly simply because I like core Mesmer. ) I hope to be in Gold next season. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For the rest; **Let me put it this way, I can beat a Mirage or Chronomancer as often as not on a core Mesmer. I A SILVER DIVISION PLAYER can force them into defensive mode and often intimidate them on a core class.** > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a learn to play issue. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is the thing though, you are only up against SILVER Mirages and Chronomancers who most likely have no idea what they are doing. The POTENTIAL of mirages and chronomancers are much higher compared to other classes in the hands of a good player. Have an equally good player use a different class such as Ele or Rev and they wont do as well. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not true. I often play unranked and play against all ranks of players. *In fact I have a recent screenshot of myself, having just killed a certain ex-esl engineer and standing over the body.* https://www.dropbox.com/s/972gfyfnqaup0tw/Chaith%20Kill.jpg?dl=0 ( Note the build and my health. I'm nowhere near as unskilled as some posters here have implied. ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mirage is nowhere near as powerful as it's made out to be. The fact that some dislike playing against it is not justification for a nerf. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Try it in a 1v1 instead. > > > > > > > > > > > > You just stomped Chaithh after the thief downed him in a **team fight**. > > > > > > > > > > > > That screenshot literally means nothing. Record a video of yourself 1v1ing him. > > > > > > > > > > No, I killed him when he over extended in a team fight. Did I 1v1? No, I used the tactical situation to my advantage and trashed him when he was vulnerable. *That's an aspect of skilled play.* > > > > > > > > > > There's an NPC in HoTM that paraphrases Tsun Tsu. The actual quote, (Jame Clavell's translation, ) is: "He will win who knows when to fight and when not to fight." > > > > > > > > I hope you realize you're a perfect example of [Dunning-Kruger Effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect). > > > > > > > > - "In the field of psychology, the Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias wherein people of low ability suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly assessing their cognitive ability as greater than it is." > > > > - "The cognitive bias of illusory superiority derives from the metacognitive inability of low-ability persons to recognize their own ineptitude; without the self-awareness of metacognition, low-ability people cannot objectively evaluate their actual competence or incompetence." > > > > > > > > This is proven simply because you are in SILVER yet mistaken believe your skill is higher than it really is. The game obviously perceives you as a bad player. Hence, by you saying you "trashed him when he was vulnerable... an aspect of skilled play." is a flat out lie. Especially when the screenshot shows Jhene Aiko as the one who downed Chaith, and you as the one who cleaved his downed body/stomped him. > > > > > > The thief and I worked together. As a skilled team. That screen shot shows the final instant. The fact that I cleaved/stomped doesn't changed the fact that I brought him to the state to be downed to begin with. > > > > Okay, first off, the fact that it took **TWO** of you to down Chaith is proof enough. > > > > Second, words mean nothing and unless you provide video evidence of you "beating" him, no one will believe you and/or take you seriously. > > > > Again, you're a perfect example of the [Dunning-Kruger Effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect). > > As you can easily observe, this was the first team fight, at mid. **Of course there were multiple players involved on both sides.** Of course, I exercised tactical judgement and jumped on that engineer when I knew I could take him out. That's known as "skill." Nope, it doesn't take much skill to to gang up on a guy and spam bursts at him from all directions. That's just called having a good opportunity, which most players with a good game sense will do. Skill is where you outplayed him in a fair fight. 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