Feedback on the State of the Mesmer [merged]

[Odik.4587]

> @"zoopop.5630" said:

tldr

> I mean.... If you play AT's daily you'll see MOST semi finals teams run double mesmer + 1thief for the instant death burst. It's just impossible to stop it from happening things could be completely different if it was JUST 1 mesmer in a team comp however thats not happening at all.

Before phantasm rework, i dont remember having 2-3 mesmers before anywhere. I'm not playing in every single AT ,yet last AT iv been there was only one mesmer in team .EU monthly was kinda free from 2-3 mesmers teamcomps (may be there was 2 mesmers in team that lost, i cant know )

I would just sit and wait for what they gonna do. For fun playing soulbeast/holo/spellbreaker occasionally offseason. I'm not sure but fighting scourge+firebrand is the worst in my opinion xd

https://www .twitch.tv/jawgeous

Semi-finals/Finals . Only 1 mesmer

[Odik.4587]

DOUBLE POST REMOVE IT

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Chaith.8256" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> >

> > > Shadow has straight up explained everything and has shown why it's OP.

> > >

> >

> > Except he didn't.

> > Already proved that excepting portal, dd has more 900range (and that's counting mes has a staff too, otherwise dd has more 2100 range, without staff and on combat dd has more 3200 range.

> >

>

> All this back and forth about who's faster is pointless and just one dimension of conquest which isn't a footrace. Mesmer's combat effectiveness, utility, matchups, overall pick rate in casual and competitive, build diversity, these are more relevant topics. Good players look at these when judging the state of a profession.. Think about the categories I brought up ..

 

Don't need to, it wasn't me who brought up the range into discussion.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > @"ZeteCommander.4937" said:

> > > > > @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > > > > > @"ZeteCommander.4937" said:

> > > > > > > @"Vagrant.7206" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > > > > > > > People hated mesmers even back when they were only good for portal, deleted by thieves and condi, and their damage was replaceable by so many better team slot options.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > So of course when it’s good or on par, or above average people will continue to complain, and claim that it’s A-net’s baby when even after years of being at the bottom beyond portal until HoT. Also outside of S1 chrono bunk, Mesmer has never been a true apex predator where people would switch to stack them on one team.

> > > > > > > > (You know, like how the eles and wars who think A-net doesn’t love them despite in the past having multiple metas where teams sought to stack them and that was considered optimal.)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Mesmers are well above "par" right now. They're doing the equivalent of holosmith-level damage, thief engage/disengage/ganking, and warrior tankiness when played well. Any one of those things gets calls for nerf (hell, they do now), but mesmer is doing all three.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > lol，maybe only you can do this .Other one can only choose 3 talents and 4 weapons to get one of the abilities，but u can choose 7 talent and 8 weapons at same time.Please don't speak with your feelings and list all the skills in detail to explain that mesmer doing the equivalent of holosmith-level damage, thief engage/disengage/ganking, and warrior tankiness when played well.

> > > > >

> > > > > Greater than holosmith-level damage: Most phantasms

> > > > > Thief engage/disengage/ganking: Blink, Jaunts, Mirage Thrusts

> > > > > Warrior tankiness: Permanent protection + paladins amulet, very good condi clear, etc. etc. etc. etc.

> > > >

> > > > what phantasms could make damage like holo 123545 ,please concrete explanation

> > >

> > > [11k Disenchanter](https://imgur.com/a/8PhBv)

> > > [11k Defender](https://imgur.com/a/7zCSp)

> > >

> > > >

> > > > mes :Blink have 30s cd，Jaunts only 450 rang ,Mirage Thrusts 600 rang ,Compare with thieves，'Infiltrator's Strike' 0cd 900 rang ('Infiltrator's Return' 1200rang) 'Shadow Shot' 0cd 900rang ' Infiltrator's Arrow' 0cd 900rang ,Steal 1200 rang（The maximum use of two times），limitless acceleration......(more is not to say)

> > > > The above description mes engage/disengage/ganking than Thief?

> > >

> > > lol?

> > >

> > > Meta Mesmer:

> > > - Blink is on a shorter cooldown than Shadowstep and travels 1200 range.

> > > - You can Jaunt 3 times in a row and travel 1350 range.

> > > - You can Mirage Thrust like 9x in a row if you really wanted to and travel 5400 range.

> > > - Portal has a range of 5000.

> > >

> > > Total = 7550 range

> > >

> > > Meta Thief:

> > > - Shadowstep 1200 range.

> > > - Infiltrator's Arrow 3 times in a row to travel 2700 range.

> > >

> > > Total without target = 3900 range

> > > - Steal 1200 range.

> > > - Infiltrator's Strike 900 range.

> > >

> > > Total = 6000 range

> > >

> > > >

> > > > everyone can equipment paladins amulet so everyone have warrior tankiness（mes unable to provide permanent protection）？no choice of inspiration is only a little clear, warrior has a lot of resistance even not SB

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Yes, mesmer can get permanent protection lol...

> > >

> > > Both dodges and jaunts clear condis btw. You don't even need inspiration.

> >

> > No one is stoping you from play D/P

> >

> > inf arrow

> > inf arrow

> > dash

> > dash

> > dash

> > inf arrow

> > chann vigor

> > dash

> > signet

> > dash

> > inf arrow

> > tons of swiftness

> >

> > Range - 7050

> >

> > mirage x 4 (2 + adv rune + vigor) (you actually walk farther way than waiting for the false oasis to spawn and use mirage thrust)

> > blink x1

> > staff x1 (just a little extra 1200 for you here)

> > jaunt x 3

> > no swiftness at all

> >

> > Range - 6150

>

> You forgot Portal. Add 5000 range to the Mirage one and you get 11150.

>

> Also, Mirages gain Super Speed when they enter Mirage Cloak, so their movement speed is actually faster than a daredevil's in combat, and equivalent to one out of combat.

 

At this point though, the thief has no initiative left or a stun breaker to fight back, mirage still has At least 2 weapon sets ready to go.

 

 

Or are you guys comparing a race from a to b?

[zoopop.5630]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> tldr

> > I mean.... If you play AT's daily you'll see MOST semi finals teams run double mesmer + 1thief for the instant death burst. It's just impossible to stop it from happening things could be completely different if it was JUST 1 mesmer in a team comp however thats not happening at all.

> Before phantasm rework, i dont remember having 2-3 mesmers before anywhere. I'm not playing in every single AT ,yet last AT iv been there was only one mesmer in team .EU monthly was kinda free from 2-3 mesmers teamcomps (may be there was 2 mesmers in team that lost, i cant know )

> I would just sit and wait for what they gonna do. For fun playing soulbeast/holo/spellbreaker occasionally offseason. I'm not sure but fighting scourge+firebrand is the worst in my opinion xd

> https://www .twitch.tv/jawgeous

> Semi-finals/Finals . Only 1 mesmer

 

Of course not because BEFORE the mesmer changes to confusion 1 was enough and they weren't so easy to play.... HOWEVER now with the changes they are the "new" flavor of the month selection for ALOT of teams and yes NOW most teams are running around with AT least 2 mesmer comp depending on the map.

 

either way the nerf gonna come one way or another it's just a matter when.

[Odik.4587]

> @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > tldr

> > > I mean.... If you play AT's daily you'll see MOST semi finals teams run double mesmer + 1thief for the instant death burst. It's just impossible to stop it from happening things could be completely different if it was JUST 1 mesmer in a team comp however thats not happening at all.

> > Before phantasm rework, i dont remember having 2-3 mesmers before anywhere. I'm not playing in every single AT ,yet last AT iv been there was only one mesmer in team .EU monthly was kinda free from 2-3 mesmers teamcomps (may be there was 2 mesmers in team that lost, i cant know )

> > I would just sit and wait for what they gonna do. For fun playing soulbeast/holo/spellbreaker occasionally offseason. I'm not sure but fighting scourge+firebrand is the worst in my opinion xd

> > https://www .twitch.tv/jawgeous

> > Semi-finals/Finals . Only 1 mesmer

>

> Of course not because BEFORE the mesmer changes to confusion 1 was enough and they weren't so easy to play.... HOWEVER now with the changes they are the "new" flavor of the month selection for ALOT of teams and yes NOW most teams are running around with AT least 2 mesmer comp depending on the map.

>

> either way the nerf gonna come one way or another it's just a matter when.

 

Actually its still easy to play because of EM which is a goner next patch. I dont like phantasm spam and all for make its limit to 3 . On NA may be they are playing 2-3 mesmers. EU isnt overloaded with 2-3 mesmers team comps yet...

[zoopop.5630]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > > tldr

> > > > I mean.... If you play AT's daily you'll see MOST semi finals teams run double mesmer + 1thief for the instant death burst. It's just impossible to stop it from happening things could be completely different if it was JUST 1 mesmer in a team comp however thats not happening at all.

> > > Before phantasm rework, i dont remember having 2-3 mesmers before anywhere. I'm not playing in every single AT ,yet last AT iv been there was only one mesmer in team .EU monthly was kinda free from 2-3 mesmers teamcomps (may be there was 2 mesmers in team that lost, i cant know )

> > > I would just sit and wait for what they gonna do. For fun playing soulbeast/holo/spellbreaker occasionally offseason. I'm not sure but fighting scourge+firebrand is the worst in my opinion xd

> > > https://www .twitch.tv/jawgeous

> > > Semi-finals/Finals . Only 1 mesmer

> >

> > Of course not because BEFORE the mesmer changes to confusion 1 was enough and they weren't so easy to play.... HOWEVER now with the changes they are the "new" flavor of the month selection for ALOT of teams and yes NOW most teams are running around with AT least 2 mesmer comp depending on the map.

> >

> > either way the nerf gonna come one way or another it's just a matter when.

>

> Actually its still easy to play because of EM which is a goner next patch. I dont like phantasm spam and all for make its limit to 3 . On NA may be they are playing 2-3 mesmers. EU isnt overloaded with 2-3 mesmers team comps yet...

 

UNLESS mistaken In Na Monthly Some of the Eu players that went against Team Usa(Na team) Lost to the double mesmer comp. Not sure if it matters but yea, thats with just monthly that was streamed by a few people In At's finals I gone against double mesmer and thief+scourge comps.

 

I should take into consideration that not everyone in Na servers however i wouldn't be surprised if you see it in Eu soon.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/33766/most-dominant-profession-season-11#latest

 

Check that out

[Odik.4587]

> @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > > > tldr

> > > > > I mean.... If you play AT's daily you'll see MOST semi finals teams run double mesmer + 1thief for the instant death burst. It's just impossible to stop it from happening things could be completely different if it was JUST 1 mesmer in a team comp however thats not happening at all.

> > > > Before phantasm rework, i dont remember having 2-3 mesmers before anywhere. I'm not playing in every single AT ,yet last AT iv been there was only one mesmer in team .EU monthly was kinda free from 2-3 mesmers teamcomps (may be there was 2 mesmers in team that lost, i cant know )

> > > > I would just sit and wait for what they gonna do. For fun playing soulbeast/holo/spellbreaker occasionally offseason. I'm not sure but fighting scourge+firebrand is the worst in my opinion xd

> > > > https://www .twitch.tv/jawgeous

> > > > Semi-finals/Finals . Only 1 mesmer

> > >

> > > Of course not because BEFORE the mesmer changes to confusion 1 was enough and they weren't so easy to play.... HOWEVER now with the changes they are the "new" flavor of the month selection for ALOT of teams and yes NOW most teams are running around with AT least 2 mesmer comp depending on the map.

> > >

> > > either way the nerf gonna come one way or another it's just a matter when.

> >

> > Actually its still easy to play because of EM which is a goner next patch. I dont like phantasm spam and all for make its limit to 3 . On NA may be they are playing 2-3 mesmers. EU isnt overloaded with 2-3 mesmers team comps yet...

>

> UNLESS mistaken In Na Monthly Some of the Eu players that went against Team Usa(Na team) Lost to the double mesmer comp. Not sure if it matters but yea, thats with just monthly that was streamed by a few people In At's finals I gone against double mesmer and thief+scourge comps.

>

> I should take into consideration that not everyone in Na servers however i wouldn't be surprised if you see it in Eu soon.

 

Now thats true ,2 mesmers looks more than good for AT's .

It was pretty close game . You want to tell me NA team (pretty close) because they had 2 mesmers?

This nerfs on mesmer is not enough . Might stack still there ,disenchanter got CD increased instead of DAMAGE,defender still explode people...(not phantasm spam,chronophantasma...lol)

At least not popular GS build got nerfed kek

[zoopop.5630]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > > > @"zoopop.5630" said:

> > > > > tldr

> > > > > > I mean.... If you play AT's daily you'll see MOST semi finals teams run double mesmer + 1thief for the instant death burst. It's just impossible to stop it from happening things could be completely different if it was JUST 1 mesmer in a team comp however thats not happening at all.

> > > > > Before phantasm rework, i dont remember having 2-3 mesmers before anywhere. I'm not playing in every single AT ,yet last AT iv been there was only one mesmer in team .EU monthly was kinda free from 2-3 mesmers teamcomps (may be there was 2 mesmers in team that lost, i cant know )

> > > > > I would just sit and wait for what they gonna do. For fun playing soulbeast/holo/spellbreaker occasionally offseason. I'm not sure but fighting scourge+firebrand is the worst in my opinion xd

> > > > > https://www .twitch.tv/jawgeous

> > > > > Semi-finals/Finals . Only 1 mesmer

> > > >

> > > > Of course not because BEFORE the mesmer changes to confusion 1 was enough and they weren't so easy to play.... HOWEVER now with the changes they are the "new" flavor of the month selection for ALOT of teams and yes NOW most teams are running around with AT least 2 mesmer comp depending on the map.

> > > >

> > > > either way the nerf gonna come one way or another it's just a matter when.

> > >

> > > Actually its still easy to play because of EM which is a goner next patch. I dont like phantasm spam and all for make its limit to 3 . On NA may be they are playing 2-3 mesmers. EU isnt overloaded with 2-3 mesmers team comps yet...

> >

> > UNLESS mistaken In Na Monthly Some of the Eu players that went against Team Usa(Na team) Lost to the double mesmer comp. Not sure if it matters but yea, thats with just monthly that was streamed by a few people In At's finals I gone against double mesmer and thief+scourge comps.

> >

> > I should take into consideration that not everyone in Na servers however i wouldn't be surprised if you see it in Eu soon.

>

> Now thats true ,2 mesmers looks more than good for AT's .

> It was pretty close game . You want to tell me NA team (pretty close) because they had 2 mesmers?

> This nerfs on mesmer is not enough . Might stack still there ,disenchanter got CD increased instead of DAMAGE,defender still explode people...At least not popular GS build got nerfed kek

 

If you watch the match again you'll see that the bunker mesmer never lost that point at all, matter fact vans at half way through the game gave up on trying to take it from the mesmer that should speak volumes especially when that mesmer alone when attempting to hold mid/home half the game because of teleport. The only reason it was a close game was because of the rough start for Team Usa, they had a SLOW and POOR start but 3 min later they ended up getting back into rhythm and eventually catching up after a slightly decent lead disadvantage.

 

Primal wasn't even really able to do much, and Sonny was pretty much locked down by the power mesmer, The game was close and yes it was a good match but it could of been much better if the slow start didn't occur. Now With the changes made overall I highly doubt a Great mesmer main would ever really lose a point in a1vs1, and with Longer cool-downs on scoruges I doubt they'll have any real surviving abilities to last against a power mesmer.

 

No magi FB now as well? Just more dps.... just idk it's bad call on anet to think these changes aren't gonna make 1class the holy of all classes now.

[Despond.2174]

It is ridiculous. The multiple ways to set up burst, the ease of high confusion stacks, the visual clutter with the new phantasms/clones, elusive mind and the effortless set-up such as Dodge-F1-Shatter, you know there's no point going on. They are too strong, but I don't think they should be guttered. I mean it's great to play but it can't keep going on like this. They are ruling spvp, duels, and pve dps. There's definitely not that once "high skill" cap reputation pvp mesmars once had, it's so easy to set-up now, so easy to sustain/defend and definitely A LOT less forgiving with mistakes.

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"Despond.2174" said:

> It is ridiculous. The multiple ways to set up burst, the ease of high confusion stacks, the visual clutter with the new phantasms/clones, elusive mind and the effortless set-up such as Dodge-F1-Shatter, you know there's no point going on. They are too strong, but I don't think they should be guttered. I mean it's great to play but it can't keep going on like this. They are ruling spvp, duels, and pve dps. There's definitely not that once "high skill" cap reputation pvp mesmars once had, it's so easy to set-up now, so easy to sustain/defend and definitely A LOT less forgiving with mistakes.

 

You... you’re complaining about confusion?

[MithranArkanere.8957]

As I see it, all this phantasm and clone spam can be fixed the same way clone spam was initially prevented: A cap.

 

Right now we have a cap of 3 clones. But when they made phantasms a separate thing, they didn't get a cap.

 

So what they could do is also have a cap of 3 phantasms, and change the interface to show it. So instead just 3 pink orbs, we'd have 6 orbs, 3 pink and 3 purple, or 3 orbs that are larger, but split in two, one half pink, one half purple, or each orb being two concentric circles.

 

So summoning a 4th phantasm before the first does its thing would cancel the actions of the first one, and dismiss it without creating a clone.

[kappa.2036]

Nothing more to say. Infinite clone spam coupled with invulns, evades, blocks, massive cc and damage. The thing that makes me angry is that everyone said it before the patch came out, and anet did absolutely nothing to change things. I'm disappointed.

[Les.4872]

Well mesmers always had those abilities but now they added exhaustion for Elusive mind which means less dodge spam for mirages. Also toned down a lot of other things like stab duration and might generation for the chaos disenchanter builds and made GS a little less bursty. You're essentially fighting a weaker mesmer but the damage potential for most classes were nerfed as well so everything's still the same only less bursty but i can see how the other classes that were nerfed hard like druid and holo would fare against last season's mesmer meta builds which are probably still very strong. Ah well. Shouldn't be too bad still i imagine.

[Razor.6392]

> @"Les.4872" said:

> Well mesmers always had those abilities but now they added exhaustion for Elusive mind which means less dodge spam for mirages. Also toned down a lot of other things like stab duration and might generation for the chaos disenchanter builds and made GS a little less bursty. You're essentially fighting a weaker mesmer but the damage potential for most classes were nerfed as well so everything's still the same only less bursty but i can see how the other classes that were nerfed hard like druid and holo would fare against last season's mesmer meta builds which are probably still very strong. Ah well. Shouldn't be too bad still i imagine.

 

Or they can just take infinite horizon instead? It's not like they can't dodge (without breaking stun) through CC anyway...

[Jace al Thor.6745]

> @"Razor.6392" said:

> > @"Les.4872" said:

> > Well mesmers always had those abilities but now they added exhaustion for Elusive mind which means less dodge spam for mirages. Also toned down a lot of other things like stab duration and might generation for the chaos disenchanter builds and made GS a little less bursty. You're essentially fighting a weaker mesmer but the damage potential for most classes were nerfed as well so everything's still the same only less bursty but i can see how the other classes that were nerfed hard like druid and holo would fare against last season's mesmer meta builds which are probably still very strong. Ah well. Shouldn't be too bad still i imagine.

>

> Or they can just take infinite horizon instead? It's not like they can't dodge (without breaking stun) through

 

Edit: I can’t read

[kappa.2036]

> @"Les.4872" said:

> Well mesmers always had those abilities but now they added exhaustion for Elusive mind which means less dodge spam for mirages. Also toned down a lot of other things like stab duration and might generation for the chaos disenchanter builds and made GS a little less bursty. You're essentially fighting a weaker mesmer but the damage potential for most classes were nerfed as well so everything's still the same only less bursty but i can see how the other classes that were nerfed hard like druid and holo would fare against last season's mesmer meta builds which are probably still very strong. Ah well. Shouldn't be too bad still i imagine.

 

I think you should also check Chronomancers.

[Les.4872]

> @"kappa.2036" said:

> > @"Les.4872" said:

> > Well mesmers always had those abilities but now they added exhaustion for Elusive mind which means less dodge spam for mirages. Also toned down a lot of other things like stab duration and might generation for the chaos disenchanter builds and made GS a little less bursty. You're essentially fighting a weaker mesmer but the damage potential for most classes were nerfed as well so everything's still the same only less bursty but i can see how the other classes that were nerfed hard like druid and holo would fare against last season's mesmer meta builds which are probably still very strong. Ah well. Shouldn't be too bad still i imagine.

>

> I think you should also check Chronomancers.

 

They spam more phantasms but they're less mobile and they don't have a powerful dodge. Chronos have more utility but they're more susceptible to classes that jump you without warning like the thief and Mirage still wins out in mobility game. Different roles but i doubt the chrono is broken in any regard. It's just more relevant now than when mirage first came out because of the phantasm changes.

[OriOri.8724]

> @"kappa.2036" said:

> Nothing more to say. Infinite clone spam coupled with invulns, evades, blocks, massive cc and damage. The thing that makes me angry is that everyone said it before the patch came out, and anet did absolutely nothing to change things. I'm disappointed.

 

Note that this was **_not_** a balance patch, and we were told that several times leading up to it. It was a skill split patch designed at reducing the impact of passive proc traits.

 

They told us that this was not a balance patch.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Razor.6392" said:

> > @"Les.4872" said:

> > Well mesmers always had those abilities but now they added exhaustion for Elusive mind which means less dodge spam for mirages. Also toned down a lot of other things like stab duration and might generation for the chaos disenchanter builds and made GS a little less bursty. You're essentially fighting a weaker mesmer but the damage potential for most classes were nerfed as well so everything's still the same only less bursty but i can see how the other classes that were nerfed hard like druid and holo would fare against last season's mesmer meta builds which are probably still very strong. Ah well. Shouldn't be too bad still i imagine.

>

> Or they can just take infinite horizon instead? It's not like they can't dodge (without breaking stun) through CC anyway...

 

Ehhh. Infinite Horizon is worth it for the condi cleanse alone as the two Power Mirage variants are actually quite vulnerable to condition pressure. The Greatsword burster can get away with Infinite Horizon since as a +1er it's going to get tagged with damage less than the staff duelist.

[FtoPScrub.5476]

Who would've seen that coming /sarcasm

[HardRider.2980]

Just QQ as much as people do on necro and it'll get nerfed.

[Legatus.3608]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > A good smart Thief is just as unkillable

> True but its impact is much lower.

>

> Disenchanter Mirage is favored in 90% of possible matchups. That's too much.

>

> Thief (at least the power based builds) can't kill 50% of its opponents as it is much more vulnerable while attacking.

>

> Thief is +1. Disenchanter is a 100% duellist.

>

> > Roll some condi bomb.

> To be fair even as a Power Reaper (against which a Disenchanter Mirage is heavily favored) player I can confirm that. A Spite/Curses/Reaper Signet based condi overload build works surprisingly well.

>

> But it's a one trick pony as Signet of Spite has a huge telegraph and won't hit a second time. Against other classes it is possible to set up Signet of Spite with a stun... against a Mirage... well... Elusive Mind.

>

 

Funny that anyone is even whining about thief at all when a build that was barely meta got nerfed into oblivion and mesmer was better to begin with

 

Proof that some people are just out to get thief and have no actual logic to what they're saying at all

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"Les.4872" said:

> > @"kappa.2036" said:

> > > @"Les.4872" said:

> > > Well mesmers always had those abilities but now they added exhaustion for Elusive mind which means less dodge spam for mirages. Also toned down a lot of other things like stab duration and might generation for the chaos disenchanter builds and made GS a little less bursty. You're essentially fighting a weaker mesmer but the damage potential for most classes were nerfed as well so everything's still the same only less bursty but i can see how the other classes that were nerfed hard like druid and holo would fare against last season's mesmer meta builds which are probably still very strong. Ah well. Shouldn't be too bad still i imagine.

> >

> > I think you should also check Chronomancers.

>

> They spam more phantasms but they're less mobile and they don't have a powerful dodge. Chronos have more utility but they're more susceptible to classes that jump you without warning like the thief and Mirage still wins out in mobility game. Different roles but i doubt the chrono is broken in any regard. It's just more relevant now than when mirage first came out because of the phantasm changes.

 

You need to try some Chrono builds.... Very easy to pull 20-30 kills and 0-2 deaths.