Why is spamming 3 a viable build?

[shadowpass.4236]

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> The only reason spamming 3 seems effective is that the players that a person spamming 3 against ALLOW it to be. If you know exactly what the enemy players is going to do before they do it, there should be no reason whatsoever that you should be getting hit with every such attack.

 

The game doesn't work like that. I know he's going to unload, but I can't avoid all of the damage no matter how soon in advance I know its going to come. Imagine if ranger staff autos did 12k damage every pulse. You can block it, go invulnerable, etc. etc. but the damage doesn't stop and you'll eventually run out of defenses.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Mesmer and PP thieves seem to be your problem.

 

Mine are druids and mesmers.

[Legatus.3608]

The OP is asking a fake question, we all need to read the title.

 

Why is spamming 3 a VIABLE build... the answer to that question is ITS NOT

 

(Unless you're a scourge, then it might be viable against YOU ONLY)

 

Shadow, the problem you have is

1 your build must lack defensive abilities like immunities or blocks or reflects

2 you don't understand how unload works

3 you don't see him coming to use your cc on him

 

Unload refunds initiative only if they all hit. So if you block one and dodge one, the thief is out of initiative. Assuming you've done any damage during your defensive ability's uptime, you've probably taken off most of the thief hp bar (because he has only 11k). Then you win. It's not that hard honestly.

 

Pp thief may be frustrating to play against because it basically turns the game into call of duty... first guy to get spotted dies. But the build still sucks because it lacks defenses. Your team needs to spot the thief and focus him.

 

Alternatively you time your reflect correctly and the thief kills himself. How many builds in this game kill themselves on a single defensive ability?

 

I shouldn't be telling you this because its really your own fault losing to this build, but that's how you beat the build.

[brannigan.9831]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> Spamming one button shouldn't work, but it does. There's no reason why a build that only presses 3 should be effective at ALL.

>

> It's like a ranger being able to cast rapid fire over and over again doing massive amounts of damage per channel. It's skill-less.

 

I actually agree with this. Its really something that should be balance dogma you wonder why stuff like this continually makes it into pvp in games. The fact good players can counter it is meaningless. Its dumb and its annoying. I kill pp thieves all the time 1v1 but every once in awhile Ill get sandbagged when my attention is elsewhere and its just not fun to die like that period. Games are supposed to be fun. A guy materializing out of thin air and downing you in a couple seconds from full health is not fun.

[babazhook.6805]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > The only reason spamming 3 seems effective is that the players that a person spamming 3 against ALLOW it to be. If you know exactly what the enemy players is going to do before they do it, there should be no reason whatsoever that you should be getting hit with every such attack.

>

> The game doesn't work like that. I know he's going to unload, but I can't avoid all of the damage no matter how soon in advance I know its going to come. Imagine if ranger staff autos did 12k damage every pulse. You can block it, go invulnerable, etc. etc. but the damage doesn't stop and you'll eventually run out of defenses.

 

You are not SUPPOSED to avoid all the damage. The thief is limited by INI and can get three of those at most in a row. He can not get more of these off unless you allow the FULL chains to hit. That INI refund does not happen unless that full chain hits.

 

Every class has two dodges. You do not have to save your dodges if you know someone spamming. Most classes have a block or multiple blocks. Used in sequence with the Dodges this gives more ways to mitigate an unload then a thief has unloads. Given the thief spamming you do not have to worry about avoiding any other skill. On my warrior as example If I come against a thief spamming Unload I can use shield block (3 second reflect) followed by Bulls rush with a 3/4 second evade and gap class with knockdown that hits for 8k+ against glass and that thief will have done zero damage if he was just spamming the skill and in fact taken more from the reflect. I have not even touched my dodges.

 

Every class can use LOS. Multiple classes have invuln, skill evades , or reflects. In sum total these all combined exceed the number of unloads a thief can use.

 

Were your statement true ., I would be able to use unload against any enemy player in WvW and win the fight. As I stated I can up againt two different players using the same build and one is able to neutralize my build simply because he uses his skills proeperly while the other will just eat the unloads. They have the same tools available to them.

 

Your Ranger staff Auto is a poor comparison. Unload is limited by INI and a staff auto is not. When a staff auto is used NO OTHER skills are compromised. When Unload used via spam 7 other skills on two weapon sets become unusable. Staff auto attack does not do that. When I do face a ranger using LB , that Ranger can use RF followed by PBS, he can follow up with a barrage and his AA and still switch to GS for a maul. I fully expect to take damage and a number of those skills can put out unload like damage. This harder to play against then a thief spamming Unload because I have to be very careful about which skills in the rotation he will use next. He is a harder fight then someone who just spams unload . That ranger by the same token, becomes an easier fight if he just sticks to longbow and does the exact same rotations all the time.

 

There one class an unload spam more effective against then others and that the Necro , but that Necro is as vulnerable to ranged attacks by other classes. It has nothing to do with the nature of Unload. THAT said of the necroes I have faced in WvW the ones that put the petal to the metal and come right for you even as they use there own attacks do much better then those that stay at range or try and flee. If that Necro can get in range Unload theif is in trouble as they will have little INI left to escape (via SB) or use other mitigation (blinds headshots)

[babazhook.6805]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > The only reason spamming 3 seems effective is that the players that a person spamming 3 against ALLOW it to be. If you know exactly what the enemy players is going to do before they do it, there should be no reason whatsoever that you should be getting hit with every such attack.

>

> Except all of the tools for countering unload have cooldowns, but unload does not. Unload thief works because the thief can just spam unload until the target runs out of cooldowns at which point the target will die instantly from unload's insane 12k per channel output.

>

> It's also worth noting that for classes with low base health it's entirely possible for a p/p to delete half their health before basi wears off, and once they go below 50% panic strike goes off, which is a auto death due to the immobilize preventing dodging.

>

>

 

You have more then one skill to use and a thief using Unload spam still restricted by an INI pool which locks out all other weapon skills when it depleted outside the AA and the AA hits for less damage then virtually any other AA chain out there. Facing a warrior with depleted INI a thief has to deal with an AA that has chop , double chop and triple chop. This alone can do that thief even as the thief musters the meager damage the P/P sets offers in its AA wherein the warrior healing near as fast as that damage comes in.

 

The set is balanced around that fact. When you face a thief you are not fighting so much against individual skills that he might use in his rotation, you are fighting against his INI pool. When you fight a class using the ICD system it the rotations you worry about and what he will do next that might come off cooldown. You try and bait out or avoid very specific skills in that rotation. When you fight against a thief spamming one skill your focus is not what he will do next and what skill he might use ina a rotation it how can I get him to waste that INI as quickly as possible.

 

As to your specific examples. I can use my ranger with Entangle and take out half your health before the entangle wears off. I can use headbut with a warrior and produce a stun and take out half a players health. There any number of other builds that can Stun an enemy and wreck him for half his health if they do not have the means to break the stun or other CC. It is not restricted to thief. That is how burst damage works.

 

 

 

 

[babazhook.6805]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> The OP is asking a fake question, we all need to read the title.

>

> Why is spamming 3 a VIABLE build... the answer to that question is ITS NOT

>

> (Unless you're a scourge, then it might be viable against YOU ONLY)

>

> Shadow, the problem you have is

> 1 your build must lack defensive abilities like immunities or blocks or reflects

> 2 you don't understand how unload works

> 3 you don't see him coming to use your cc on him

>

> Unload refunds initiative only if they all hit. So if you block one and dodge one, the thief is out of initiative. Assuming you've done any damage during your defensive ability's uptime, you've probably taken off most of the thief hp bar (because he has only 11k). Then you win. It's not that hard honestly.

>

> Pp thief may be frustrating to play against because it basically turns the game into call of duty... first guy to get spotted dies. But the build still sucks because it lacks defenses. Your team needs to spot the thief and focus him.

>

> Alternatively you time your reflect correctly and the thief kills himself. How many builds in this game kill themselves on a single defensive ability?

>

> I shouldn't be telling you this because its really your own fault losing to this build, but that's how you beat the build.

 

Good points. There was a group flipping camps that our group kept fighting in WvW. The first few times we fought them they would get wrecked with my using p/p unload as they simply ignored me to go after the melee guys. After those first few times they changed up their tactics with one or two in the group going straight for me and I would get wrecked. In subsequent fights I stayed mainly in s/p. Again p/p Unload happens when people let it happen.

 

Now at the same time a Ranger can use much the same tactics from range and wreck a group that ignores his own damage, but that ranger has way more in the way of outs if he focused on. (hunters shot, knockback his pet etec)

[Despond.2174]

It isn't viable at moderate or any decent rating. They lack any real role. It's a meme build that's only annoying if your enemy team is already steam rolling. Otherwise, given a close match or equally skilled teams a p/p thief is a free kill in team fights and get's MAULED by a d/p thief 1vs1 let alone having no real +1/decap abilities. They can stealth a bit, spam 3, but it all comes crumbling down as soon as a match is somewhat even comp/skill.

 

By all means, please keep queueing p/p. Insta free kills.

 

Signed

D/P Thief

[Crinn.7864]

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > The only reason spamming 3 seems effective is that the players that a person spamming 3 against ALLOW it to be. If you know exactly what the enemy players is going to do before they do it, there should be no reason whatsoever that you should be getting hit with every such attack.

> >

> > Except all of the tools for countering unload have cooldowns, but unload does not. Unload thief works because the thief can just spam unload until the target runs out of cooldowns at which point the target will die instantly from unload's insane 12k per channel output.

> >

> > It's also worth noting that for classes with low base health it's entirely possible for a p/p to delete half their health before basi wears off, and once they go below 50% panic strike goes off, which is a auto death due to the immobilize preventing dodging.

> >

> >

>

> You have more then one skill to use and a thief using Unload spam still restricted by an INI pool which locks out all other weapon skills when it depleted outside the AA and the AA hits for less damage then virtually any other AA chain out there. Facing a warrior with depleted INI a thief has to deal with an AA that has chop , double chop and triple chop. This alone can do that thief even as the thief musters the meager damage the P/P sets offers in its AA wherein the warrior healing near as fast as that damage comes in.

 

Warrior healing is nowhere near thief's damage output. Pistol AA is double the DPS of Warrior HPS even with 3 AH stacks.

 

The fact of the matter is unload's damage is so high that the only viable counter to it is full damage negation skills, and most classes only have 2 dodges and maybe 1 or 2 extra negations at maximum. It is entirely within a P/P thief's capability to unload until dead against the majority of builds.

Also you seem focused on p/p thieves in a pure 1v1, when in reality p/p thief is typically played by jumping into a already in progress fight and just instantly vaporizing whoever has the least amount of health.

 

Seriously due play the game, every other thief is running p/p in ranked these days.

 

 

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > The only reason spamming 3 seems effective is that the players that a person spamming 3 against ALLOW it to be. If you know exactly what the enemy players is going to do before they do it, there should be no reason whatsoever that you should be getting hit with every such attack.

> > >

> > > Except all of the tools for countering unload have cooldowns, but unload does not. Unload thief works because the thief can just spam unload until the target runs out of cooldowns at which point the target will die instantly from unload's insane 12k per channel output.

> > >

> > > It's also worth noting that for classes with low base health it's entirely possible for a p/p to delete half their health before basi wears off, and once they go below 50% panic strike goes off, which is a auto death due to the immobilize preventing dodging.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > You have more then one skill to use and a thief using Unload spam still restricted by an INI pool which locks out all other weapon skills when it depleted outside the AA and the AA hits for less damage then virtually any other AA chain out there. Facing a warrior with depleted INI a thief has to deal with an AA that has chop , double chop and triple chop. This alone can do that thief even as the thief musters the meager damage the P/P sets offers in its AA wherein the warrior healing near as fast as that damage comes in.

>

> Warrior healing is nowhere near thief's damage output. Pistol AA is double the DPS of Warrior HPS even with 3 AH stacks.

>

> The fact of the matter is unload's damage is so high that the only viable counter to it is full damage negation skills, and most classes only have 2 dodges and maybe 1 or 2 extra negations at maximum. It is entirely within a P/P thief's capability to unload until dead against the majority of builds.

> Also you seem focused on p/p thieves in a pure 1v1, when in reality p/p thief is typically played by jumping into a already in progress fight and just instantly vaporizing whoever has the least amount of health.

>

> Seriously due play the game, every other thief is running p/p in ranked these days.

>

>

 

I've already told you how to deal with this build 6 posts up. If you can't press your buttons in the correct order that's on you.

[Panda.3620]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > The only reason spamming 3 seems effective is that the players that a person spamming 3 against ALLOW it to be. If you know exactly what the enemy players is going to do before they do it, there should be no reason whatsoever that you should be getting hit with every such attack.

> > > >

> > > > Except all of the tools for countering unload have cooldowns, but unload does not. Unload thief works because the thief can just spam unload until the target runs out of cooldowns at which point the target will die instantly from unload's insane 12k per channel output.

> > > >

> > > > It's also worth noting that for classes with low base health it's entirely possible for a p/p to delete half their health before basi wears off, and once they go below 50% panic strike goes off, which is a auto death due to the immobilize preventing dodging.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > You have more then one skill to use and a thief using Unload spam still restricted by an INI pool which locks out all other weapon skills when it depleted outside the AA and the AA hits for less damage then virtually any other AA chain out there. Facing a warrior with depleted INI a thief has to deal with an AA that has chop , double chop and triple chop. This alone can do that thief even as the thief musters the meager damage the P/P sets offers in its AA wherein the warrior healing near as fast as that damage comes in.

> >

> > Warrior healing is nowhere near thief's damage output. Pistol AA is double the DPS of Warrior HPS even with 3 AH stacks.

> >

> > The fact of the matter is unload's damage is so high that the only viable counter to it is full damage negation skills, and most classes only have 2 dodges and maybe 1 or 2 extra negations at maximum. It is entirely within a P/P thief's capability to unload until dead against the majority of builds.

> > Also you seem focused on p/p thieves in a pure 1v1, when in reality p/p thief is typically played by jumping into a already in progress fight and just instantly vaporizing whoever has the least amount of health.

> >

> > Seriously due play the game, every other thief is running p/p in ranked these days.

> >

> >

>

> I've already told you how to deal with this build 6 posts up. If you can't press your buttons in the correct order that's on you.

 

Doesn't work like that mate. On a 5v5 it's another different scenario. On theory everything sounds beautiful, you gotta play the game to understand, the top 2 on Leaderboards right now is a p/p thief for exemple. With this build, picking classes on teamfights are extremely easy even though the build lacks against 1v1. You can delete anyone and they will don't see you coming. I don't mind p/p thieves, they're easy to kill for me, but they disturb the balance in a team scenario cause they will down will in one or two unloads and you will not have a chance to fight back.

 

Anyways, here's the only true tip on how to deal with it, babysit your team and kill the enemy thief when you see him before he fucks your team up.

Pretty simple.

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Panda.3620" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > > The only reason spamming 3 seems effective is that the players that a person spamming 3 against ALLOW it to be. If you know exactly what the enemy players is going to do before they do it, there should be no reason whatsoever that you should be getting hit with every such attack.

> > > > >

> > > > > Except all of the tools for countering unload have cooldowns, but unload does not. Unload thief works because the thief can just spam unload until the target runs out of cooldowns at which point the target will die instantly from unload's insane 12k per channel output.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's also worth noting that for classes with low base health it's entirely possible for a p/p to delete half their health before basi wears off, and once they go below 50% panic strike goes off, which is a auto death due to the immobilize preventing dodging.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > You have more then one skill to use and a thief using Unload spam still restricted by an INI pool which locks out all other weapon skills when it depleted outside the AA and the AA hits for less damage then virtually any other AA chain out there. Facing a warrior with depleted INI a thief has to deal with an AA that has chop , double chop and triple chop. This alone can do that thief even as the thief musters the meager damage the P/P sets offers in its AA wherein the warrior healing near as fast as that damage comes in.

> > >

> > > Warrior healing is nowhere near thief's damage output. Pistol AA is double the DPS of Warrior HPS even with 3 AH stacks.

> > >

> > > The fact of the matter is unload's damage is so high that the only viable counter to it is full damage negation skills, and most classes only have 2 dodges and maybe 1 or 2 extra negations at maximum. It is entirely within a P/P thief's capability to unload until dead against the majority of builds.

> > > Also you seem focused on p/p thieves in a pure 1v1, when in reality p/p thief is typically played by jumping into a already in progress fight and just instantly vaporizing whoever has the least amount of health.

> > >

> > > Seriously due play the game, every other thief is running p/p in ranked these days.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I've already told you how to deal with this build 6 posts up. If you can't press your buttons in the correct order that's on you.

>

> Doesn't work like that mate. On a 5v5 it's another different scenario. On theory everything sounds beautiful, you gotta play the game to understand, the top 2 on Leaderboards right now is a p/p thief for exemple. With this build, picking classes on teamfights are extremely easy even though the build lacks against 1v1. You can delete anyone and they will don't see you coming. I don't mind p/p thieves, they're easy to kill for me, but they disturb the balance in a team scenario cause they will down will in one or two unloads and you will not have a chance to fight back.

>

> Anyways, here's the only true tip on how to deal with it, babysit your team and kill the enemy thief when you see him before he kitten your team up.

> Pretty simple.

 

No on a 5v5 you've got the best chance of beating builds like pistol thief. These one trick pony builds are at their worst when teams cam focus them down.

[Panda.3620]

> @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > @"Panda.3620" said:

> > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > > > The only reason spamming 3 seems effective is that the players that a person spamming 3 against ALLOW it to be. If you know exactly what the enemy players is going to do before they do it, there should be no reason whatsoever that you should be getting hit with every such attack.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Except all of the tools for countering unload have cooldowns, but unload does not. Unload thief works because the thief can just spam unload until the target runs out of cooldowns at which point the target will die instantly from unload's insane 12k per channel output.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It's also worth noting that for classes with low base health it's entirely possible for a p/p to delete half their health before basi wears off, and once they go below 50% panic strike goes off, which is a auto death due to the immobilize preventing dodging.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > You have more then one skill to use and a thief using Unload spam still restricted by an INI pool which locks out all other weapon skills when it depleted outside the AA and the AA hits for less damage then virtually any other AA chain out there. Facing a warrior with depleted INI a thief has to deal with an AA that has chop , double chop and triple chop. This alone can do that thief even as the thief musters the meager damage the P/P sets offers in its AA wherein the warrior healing near as fast as that damage comes in.

> > > >

> > > > Warrior healing is nowhere near thief's damage output. Pistol AA is double the DPS of Warrior HPS even with 3 AH stacks.

> > > >

> > > > The fact of the matter is unload's damage is so high that the only viable counter to it is full damage negation skills, and most classes only have 2 dodges and maybe 1 or 2 extra negations at maximum. It is entirely within a P/P thief's capability to unload until dead against the majority of builds.

> > > > Also you seem focused on p/p thieves in a pure 1v1, when in reality p/p thief is typically played by jumping into a already in progress fight and just instantly vaporizing whoever has the least amount of health.

> > > >

> > > > Seriously due play the game, every other thief is running p/p in ranked these days.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > I've already told you how to deal with this build 6 posts up. If you can't press your buttons in the correct order that's on you.

> >

> > Doesn't work like that mate. On a 5v5 it's another different scenario. On theory everything sounds beautiful, you gotta play the game to understand, the top 2 on Leaderboards right now is a p/p thief for exemple. With this build, picking classes on teamfights are extremely easy even though the build lacks against 1v1. You can delete anyone and they will don't see you coming. I don't mind p/p thieves, they're easy to kill for me, but they disturb the balance in a team scenario cause they will down will in one or two unloads and you will not have a chance to fight back.

> >

> > Anyways, here's the only true tip on how to deal with it, babysit your team and kill the enemy thief when you see him before he kitten your team up.

> > Pretty simple.

>

> No on a 5v5 you've got the best chance of beating builds like pistol thief. These one trick pony builds are at their worst when teams cam focus them down.

 

Yeah, go play pvp mate. Get some experience. You can be a very mechanical player, doesn't mean nothing when the thief fucked up half of your team, anyways, since you're so good with trick pony builds, 1v1 me, maybe I can enlight you myself.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

Spamming a single button is a gimmick, and once you learn to counter it it is not that much of a problem to fight against.

 

The problem is the bad gameplay it encourages, both for the ones using it, and from those trying to counter it. It results in boring gameplay.

 

The fix is very simple: Skill ammo. Give the skill a limited number of charges like 3 or 5, something like 10 to 20ss recharge each charge, 8s to 16s with the weapon's trait. Ding. The skill can still be repeatedly in a single burst, it can't be used repeatedly to the point of ignoring the other skills to focus on that one.

[babazhook.6805]

> @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > The only reason spamming 3 seems effective is that the players that a person spamming 3 against ALLOW it to be. If you know exactly what the enemy players is going to do before they do it, there should be no reason whatsoever that you should be getting hit with every such attack.

> > >

> > > Except all of the tools for countering unload have cooldowns, but unload does not. Unload thief works because the thief can just spam unload until the target runs out of cooldowns at which point the target will die instantly from unload's insane 12k per channel output.

> > >

> > > It's also worth noting that for classes with low base health it's entirely possible for a p/p to delete half their health before basi wears off, and once they go below 50% panic strike goes off, which is a auto death due to the immobilize preventing dodging.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > You have more then one skill to use and a thief using Unload spam still restricted by an INI pool which locks out all other weapon skills when it depleted outside the AA and the AA hits for less damage then virtually any other AA chain out there. Facing a warrior with depleted INI a thief has to deal with an AA that has chop , double chop and triple chop. This alone can do that thief even as the thief musters the meager damage the P/P sets offers in its AA wherein the warrior healing near as fast as that damage comes in.

>

> Warrior healing is nowhere near thief's damage output. Pistol AA is double the DPS of Warrior HPS even with 3 AH stacks.

>

> The fact of the matter is unload's damage is so high that the only viable counter to it is full damage negation skills, and most classes only have 2 dodges and maybe 1 or 2 extra negations at maximum. It is entirely within a P/P thief's capability to unload until dead against the majority of builds.

> Also you seem focused on p/p thieves in a pure 1v1, when in reality p/p thief is typically played by jumping into a already in progress fight and just instantly vaporizing whoever has the least amount of health.

>

> Seriously due play the game, every other thief is running p/p in ranked these days.

>

>

 

What are you on about? I never said warriors heal was on a par with thiefs damage output. I said when the thief is out of INI in a p/p build all he has left is the AA and the warriors heal can all but keep up with that AA damage EVEN AS THE warriors OWN AA can wreck that thief. If you think a thief can down a warrior using his AA off pistol you are not playing the game.

 

All a warrior need do is bait the Unloads so they wasted on dodges, blocks or evades and then that thief has got to get out of there because if he tries to tanggle with the warrior realying on that P/x AA he is going to lose. A warrior does not have to be in zerker gear to do damage and even if he was he has a 8000 HP advantage over any thief in zerker gear.

 

To the number of builds using p/p in Pvp who the heck cares? They use it because it counters the scourge and the inability o fight scourge for any length of time at melee. When I see a scourge in WvW and on my p/p s/p thief, i see that scourge as my prime target as downing him will help any melee fighters on my team. If the melee fighters in that other group want that scourge to be protected, then they better go after the p/p thief or the ranger using ranged against it. It simple tactics. If the other team just ignores those ranged users and the scourge downed in short order it hardly suggests ranged attacks are OP.

[anduriell.6280]

Thief does too much constant damage with too many active defenses (teleports, evades, stealth & stuns ) while the class is clearly designed for burst damage.

 

The easiest way to fix this is:

- Thief does damage based in the available initiative.

- The less initiative the less damage it does.

- Percentage of damage loss can be relevant in PvP\WvW and neligible in PvE so raid thiefs arent affected for this change.

- Example: For each initiative lost in wvw it gets a1 stack of -8% damage and condition duration, 7% if the thief has 15 initiative. (stuns and such obliviously are not affected by this)

- Autoattacks makes the initiative to stall so thief can't regain initiative while autoattacking (while spamming AA it doesn't do more damage each)

- Stealth consume also initiative, as such the longer a thief stays invisible the less burst has.

 

This way the player also has to manage the initiative and play with it instead spam as soon as it has the initiative, it has to manage and time the burst accordingly so is more about attack \ stop instead spamspamspam.

 

With this change it wouldn't even be needed to change anything else, as the initiative already balance the burst.

 

Also with this simple change this situations would be avoided:

- thief teleporting (using multiple teleports ) from out of sight burst player in one second.

- DE in permanent stealth does 50k damage with one shot.

 

[babazhook.6805]

> @"Despond.2174" said:

> It isn't viable at moderate or any decent rating. They lack any real role. It's a meme build that's only annoying if your enemy team is already steam rolling. Otherwise, given a close match or equally skilled teams a p/p thief is a free kill in team fights and get's MAULED by a d/p thief 1vs1 let alone having no real +1/decap abilities. They can stealth a bit, spam 3, but it all comes crumbling down as soon as a match is somewhat even comp/skill.

>

> By all means, please keep queueing p/p. Insta free kills.

>

> Signed

> D/P Thief

 

Yep d/p in daredevil spec has all those dodges and along with its ports (shadow shot) will wreck P/P in short order. P/P also has poor stealth access. The advtrange p/p has over d/p is limited to range .

[Aza.2105]

Nah you shouldn't be able to spam one button to get so much damage, but then again this is guild wars 2.

 

Its not even worth debating with the players who defend it because GW2 pvp has clouded their perception of what is acceptable and what shouldn't be. Since GW2 generally consists of cheese, most players have become use to it. I can't think of any competitive game that has a single button that you can spam over and over again, which can 100 -0 even the most sturdy character. BUT I CAN name plenty of Korean mmos that generally have that type of game play. Which is sad, seeing that Korean mmos are gear dependent while GW2 isn't.

 

* Should invulnerable skills really be the only thing standing in the way of you dying instantly?

* Should block/evade spam really be the only thing standing in the way of you dying instantly?

* Should you be able to 100 to 0 any enemy target with one skill in a bit over a second?

* Should you be able to 100 to 0 any target in a bit over a second?

 

Anet should change everyone's health to 100hp. Because no matter how much health you have, it is absolutely useless. There isn't much difference dying in a second with 20k health and dying in a second with 100hp.

 

At this point in time, I'm convinced that GW2 pvp is destined to be bad for the rest of its life time. If Anet hasn't got it right within five years, then the next five years will continue to get worse. Obviously I respect the devs, but I will continue to be critical of what they have done with spvp. We go from a decent pvp game at launch to a dodge or die pvp game. Very sad indeed. The biggest culprit is how easy boon access is at this time. Nearly every profession can some how get 25 stacks of might along with many other boons. If I were Anet I'd just nerf boon intensity, durations and so forth just for spvp.

 

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> Thief does too much constant damage with too many active defenses (teleports, evades, stealth & stuns ) while the class is clearly designed for burst damage.

>

> The easiest way to fix this is:

> - Thief does damage based in the available initiative.

> - The less initiative the less damage it does.

> - Percentage of damage loss can be relevant in PvP\WvW and neligible in PvE so raid thiefs arent affected for this change.

> - Example: For each initiative lost in wvw it gets a1 stack of -8% damage and condition duration, 7% if the thief has 15 initiative. (stuns and such obliviously are not affected by this)

> - Autoattacks makes the initiative to stall so thief can't regain initiative while autoattacking (while spamming AA it doesn't do more damage each)

> - Stealth consume also initiative, as such the longer a thief stays invisible the less burst has.

>

> This way the player also has to manage the initiative and play with it instead spam as soon as it has the initiative, it has to manage and time the burst accordingly so is more about attack \ stop instead spamspamspam.

>

> With this change it wouldn't even be needed to change anything else, as the initiative already balance the burst.

>

> Also with this simple change this situations would be avoided:

> - thief teleporting (using multiple teleports ) from out of sight burst player in one second.

> - DE in permanent stealth does 50k damage with one shot.

>

 

No to all of that.

[Crab Fear.1624]

Why were duids that COULD before that could 1 v (2-3) on a side node and live?

Why do scourges still win off a faceroll?

Why is memeser a thing?

 

[NeroBoron.7285]

They just have to be focused out. Same as with rifle spamming version. Can be hard sometimes cause they are still thief ?

 

But I agree pressing over and over the same button should not be effective. I think it is ridiculous that in hot beta the revenant could as well spamming their skills. But oh it was so op that they got cooldowns. But for thief it is still legit.

 

I think there should be some changes, and many skills could get charges on them so they still can be used quickly spammed. But this way it could get more balanced by adjustment to charges and recharge time. And this way skills that are currently lucrative to spam can only get two charges for example with a fair amount of recharge time like the rangers pew pew skill.

[Math.5123]

The only issue I have with the build is the fact that any idiot can get around 10k damage on you in the duration of the stun, no matter how bad the player.

[Ragion.2831]

Its actually pretty silly, but Its been there since the game started so i think a lot are used to it. I think thats generally the sentiment with combat in general. With the flashy attacks + some semblance of tactical play there is a hype factor but when you really look at the combat capabilities of classes and the balance between them, its all pretty stupid but we got used to it because all the bells and whistles make it hype.

 

As for P/P Im more annoyed of the fact that im over here busting my ass trying to not mess up my rotations and timing and all the thief is doing is pressing 3 and dodging. Even if majority of the time ill kill the pistol thief, im always like who exactly thought this was good gameplay? The artists really pull out ridiculous talent for this game and you troll everyone with this?

[Legatus.3608]

> @"Panda.3620" said:

> > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > @"Panda.3620" said:

> > > > @"Legatus.3608" said:

> > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > > > @"Crinn.7864" said:

> > > > > > > > @"babazhook.6805" said:

> > > > > > > > The only reason spamming 3 seems effective is that the players that a person spamming 3 against ALLOW it to be. If you know exactly what the enemy players is going to do before they do it, there should be no reason whatsoever that you should be getting hit with every such attack.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Except all of the tools for countering unload have cooldowns, but unload does not. Unload thief works because the thief can just spam unload until the target runs out of cooldowns at which point the target will die instantly from unload's insane 12k per channel output.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > It's also worth noting that for classes with low base health it's entirely possible for a p/p to delete half their health before basi wears off, and once they go below 50% panic strike goes off, which is a auto death due to the immobilize preventing dodging.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You have more then one skill to use and a thief using Unload spam still restricted by an INI pool which locks out all other weapon skills when it depleted outside the AA and the AA hits for less damage then virtually any other AA chain out there. Facing a warrior with depleted INI a thief has to deal with an AA that has chop , double chop and triple chop. This alone can do that thief even as the thief musters the meager damage the P/P sets offers in its AA wherein the warrior healing near as fast as that damage comes in.

> > > > >

> > > > > Warrior healing is nowhere near thief's damage output. Pistol AA is double the DPS of Warrior HPS even with 3 AH stacks.

> > > > >

> > > > > The fact of the matter is unload's damage is so high that the only viable counter to it is full damage negation skills, and most classes only have 2 dodges and maybe 1 or 2 extra negations at maximum. It is entirely within a P/P thief's capability to unload until dead against the majority of builds.

> > > > > Also you seem focused on p/p thieves in a pure 1v1, when in reality p/p thief is typically played by jumping into a already in progress fight and just instantly vaporizing whoever has the least amount of health.

> > > > >

> > > > > Seriously due play the game, every other thief is running p/p in ranked these days.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > I've already told you how to deal with this build 6 posts up. If you can't press your buttons in the correct order that's on you.

> > >

> > > Doesn't work like that mate. On a 5v5 it's another different scenario. On theory everything sounds beautiful, you gotta play the game to understand, the top 2 on Leaderboards right now is a p/p thief for exemple. With this build, picking classes on teamfights are extremely easy even though the build lacks against 1v1. You can delete anyone and they will don't see you coming. I don't mind p/p thieves, they're easy to kill for me, but they disturb the balance in a team scenario cause they will down will in one or two unloads and you will not have a chance to fight back.

> > >

> > > Anyways, here's the only true tip on how to deal with it, babysit your team and kill the enemy thief when you see him before he kitten your team up.

> > > Pretty simple.

> >

> > No on a 5v5 you've got the best chance of beating builds like pistol thief. These one trick pony builds are at their worst when teams cam focus them down.

>

> Yeah, go play pvp mate. Get some experience. You can be a very mechanical player, doesn't mean nothing when the thief kitten up half of your team, anyways, since you're so good with trick pony builds, 1v1 me, maybe I can enlight you myself.

 

I've got the legendary pvp back so I'm pretty sure that is enough pvp experience to comment against somebody with no actual points and lots of ad-hominem. Myself and several other people have told you how to beat p/p deadeye, read the text and do it in the game. It's not hard.

[babazhook.6805]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> The only issue I have with the build is the fact that any idiot can get around 10k damage on you in the duration of the stun, no matter how bad the player.

 

You can do that in any number of builds. Stun an enemy and put out 10k damage. it hardly limited to Unload.