Tinnel.4369 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 > @"Ewon.5903" said: > > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > > @"Ewon.5903" said: > > > > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > > > their statement specified tampering with the game. > > > > > > Where did it say tampering with the game? I only saw it say "at the same time". > > > > > > > > > > Quoted from the message the actual banned were given. > > So, not their statement, but rather from the support GM? I'll be dammed if I can find it now, this thread is a mess, but it referred to the message they were given when opening the game to find themselves banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerrenoNL.7928 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > @"Ewon.5903" said: > > > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > > > @"Ewon.5903" said: > > > > > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > > > > their statement specified tampering with the game. > > > > > > > > Where did it say tampering with the game? I only saw it say "at the same time". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quoted from the message the actual banned were given. > > > > So, not their statement, but rather from the support GM? > > I'll be dammed if I can find it now, this thread is a mess, but it referred to the message they were given when opening the game to find themselves banned. The exact message for me (running CE alongside GW2, without actually tampering with the game) reads: Your Guild Wars 2 account has been suspended for modifying or tampering with the game, which is a breach of the User Agreement and Rules of Conduct. Access will be restored in 4224 hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewon.5903 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > @"Ewon.5903" said: > > > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > > > @"Ewon.5903" said: > > > > > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > > > > their statement specified tampering with the game. > > > > > > > > Where did it say tampering with the game? I only saw it say "at the same time". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quoted from the message the actual banned were given. > > > > So, not their statement, but rather from the support GM? > > I'll be dammed if I can find it now, this thread is a mess, but it referred to the message they were given when opening the game to find themselves banned. That's okay, but its still not the statement they made, which is what I thought I must have missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 > @"Vayne.8563" said: > > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > > @"Shikigami.4013" said: > > > German people who think they can do anything and ArenaNet can do nothing should get a lawyer and fight it out if they are so sure. You know, like those people who have been fighting against the "GEZ" for years. > > > > > > For all non-germans, all germans who have an own home address and no longer live with their parents have to pay money for their ability to watch TV and listen to radio, even if they prove that they do not have a TV or a radio. > > > > > > Good luck with getting a better or faster outcome of your case of "ArenaNet may not check my running processes because the EULA is invalid in germany"..... > > > > No, they should not try to take legal actions from Germany against a company that sits in Seattle, it would be a waste of time and money. That might change in May when new legislation takes place in Europe, everybody doing business in Europe will have to adjust then. > > > > The point is that Anet didn't do anyone a favour, not the players who trusted them and not themselves. They kitten up, again, and people wait for a reaction. I want to see an official statement with an apology, I want to know what exactly was sent to Anet servers, what happened with the data after the investigation was done, and I want to see a promise that they will not do it again in the way they did. > > I completely disagree with the idea that Anet didn't do anyone a favor... > > For the people who follow this, closely and deeply, which is a very small percentage of the player base. it'll make a difference. Most of the playerbase won't even know this happened. > > Beyond that, I'm happy some cheaters were banned, period. I don't love that some people got false bans, but I do want cheaters banned. > > For ages people post about Anet not doing anything about cheating and now that they do, people are complaining...but not everyone is complaining. I'm not complaining. 1500 people is a pretty small percentage of people playing the game after all. > > The biggest mistake, in my opinion, was saying straight up there would be no appeals. That's NEVER a good look. But I think there are people that are fine with what happened, just as there are people who aren't. > > I very much doubt banning this small number of accounts will make any difference in the grand scheme of things.. but yeah mostly we will never really know. I bet a lot of those accounts banned were farming accounts or trial of cheating accounts, most wont be using their main accounts unless really stupid. But even if they were all the players main accounts I would bet they all have at least 1,5,10,20 alt accounts and are already back in game using the cheats again because 1- the hack devs will of likely already modded their own hacks and 2 - cheats will always cheat for cheating sake, its what they do , it's how they get their thrill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ubi.4136 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > > > Let me fix your analogy when applied to cheat engine for you: > > > Logged into guild wars with cheat engine running is like standing outside of several cars in the driveway while drunk with keys in hand -- you won't get a DUI unless there is further evidence that you had driven while drunk. > > > > If you are logged IN to the game AND have the cheat software on AT THE SAME TIME, you are clearly inside the car. with the keys in the ignition. You have the option to drive (or to use your cheat software). Anet does not need to know anything else, and neither does law enforcement. I'm just sad the suspensions aren't bans, but it was nice they at least made them longer than 3 days. > There is a big difference between Cheat Engine being attached to GW2 and not being attached to GW2 -- and that is something that ANet could have detected with a small amount of additional code. Your response seems to shows a lack of understanding of what Cheat Engine is (and how it falls into the tools category more than cheat category like other software ANet was looking for) -- I'd suggest checking out the software and learning more about it, maybe even trying it out to gain a basic understanding of its operation (not with GW2 -- try messing with the timer in minesweeper), and learn about some of its legitimate (non-cheating) uses as a development tool before claiming that simply having cheat engine running is the equivalent of having keys in the ignition. > > With any of the other software ANet was banning for, I'd agree with your analogy, but with Cheat Engine, simply the program running is the equivalent of being outside the car -- it can't touch GW2 unless the person using it decides to _attach_ it to the GW2 process, at which point it can begin interacting with GW2; that is like having the key in the ignition, since it shows obvious intent to use it to "cheat" in GW2, even though they haven't carried out the action yet. Otherwise, Cheat Engine could easily be attached to Notepad, which would be the equivalent of the keys being in the ignition of the car parked in front of you -- when attached to Notepad, Cheat Engine will not interact with GW2 in any way. Why would I even want to look up third party software. I don't want other programs to "help" me play games, or to help me "cheat" in games, or "help" me press 1 button and do entire dps rotations. I am old, I have been playing games since LONG before there were mmos. I use a 2 button mouse and actually enjoy playing the game myself. I don't like to even use sites like Dulfy unless I have given whatever I am attempting an honest effort (usually upwards of 12 hours). The fun of playing is the discovery and adventure. I honestly don't care what else some of the programs "could" be used for. Anet determined that they could be used to give an advantage in game (whether that is what people used them for or not is irrelevant). People had third party (potentially cheating) software open for numerous hours while playing Guild Wars 2 and were suspended for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinnel.4369 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 > @"FerrenoNL.7928" said: > > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > > @"Ewon.5903" said: > > > > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > > > > @"Ewon.5903" said: > > > > > > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > > > > > their statement specified tampering with the game. > > > > > > > > > > Where did it say tampering with the game? I only saw it say "at the same time". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quoted from the message the actual banned were given. > > > > > > So, not their statement, but rather from the support GM? > > > > I'll be dammed if I can find it now, this thread is a mess, but it referred to the message they were given when opening the game to find themselves banned. > > The exact message for me (running CE alongside GW2, without actually tampering with the game) reads: > > Your Guild Wars 2 account has been suspended for modifying or tampering with the game, which is a breach of the User Agreement and Rules of Conduct. Access will be restored in 4224 hour. @"Ewon.5903" This, thank you @"FerrenoNL.7928" . By this statement ANet has evidence of the tamper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rankomonaut.4708 Posted April 16, 2018 Author Share Posted April 16, 2018 > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > @"FerrenoNL.7928" said: > > > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > > > @"Ewon.5903" said: > > > > > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > > > > > @"Ewon.5903" said: > > > > > > > @"Tinnel.4369" said: > > > > > > > their statement specified tampering with the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did it say tampering with the game? I only saw it say "at the same time". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quoted from the message the actual banned were given. > > > > > > > > So, not their statement, but rather from the support GM? > > > > > > I'll be dammed if I can find it now, this thread is a mess, but it referred to the message they were given when opening the game to find themselves banned. > > > > The exact message for me (running CE alongside GW2, without actually tampering with the game) reads: > > > > Your Guild Wars 2 account has been suspended for modifying or tampering with the game, which is a breach of the User Agreement and Rules of Conduct. Access will be restored in 4224 hour. > > @"Ewon.5903" > > This, thank you @"FerrenoNL.7928" . > > By this statement ANet has evidence of the tamper. Just: They don't have. Same situation here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueanimus.4085 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 > See what he said. Despite the name, Cheat Engine is not a cheat program, even though it can be used as such. i think that statement says it all... if you think that there is even a 0.0001% chance you might get banned for cheating... and you use a program called cheat engine... but yeah you were not cheating.... i still think you knew it might happen at some point and there is no one to blame but yourself... i mean come on dude... you installed something called CHEAT ENGINE but you didnt cheat? really.. and bill clinton didnt inhale ... right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightlark.4029 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > > > > > Let me fix your analogy when applied to cheat engine for you: > > > > Logged into guild wars with cheat engine running is like standing outside of several cars in the driveway while drunk with keys in hand -- you won't get a DUI unless there is further evidence that you had driven while drunk. > > > > > > If you are logged IN to the game AND have the cheat software on AT THE SAME TIME, you are clearly inside the car. with the keys in the ignition. You have the option to drive (or to use your cheat software). Anet does not need to know anything else, and neither does law enforcement. I'm just sad the suspensions aren't bans, but it was nice they at least made them longer than 3 days. > > There is a big difference between Cheat Engine being attached to GW2 and not being attached to GW2 -- and that is something that ANet could have detected with a small amount of additional code. Your response seems to shows a lack of understanding of what Cheat Engine is (and how it falls into the tools category more than cheat category like other software ANet was looking for) -- I'd suggest checking out the software and learning more about it, maybe even trying it out to gain a basic understanding of its operation (not with GW2 -- try messing with the timer in minesweeper), and learn about some of its legitimate (non-cheating) uses as a development tool before claiming that simply having cheat engine running is the equivalent of having keys in the ignition. > > > > With any of the other software ANet was banning for, I'd agree with your analogy, but with Cheat Engine, simply the program running is the equivalent of being outside the car -- it can't touch GW2 unless the person using it decides to _attach_ it to the GW2 process, at which point it can begin interacting with GW2; that is like having the key in the ignition, since it shows obvious intent to use it to "cheat" in GW2, even though they haven't carried out the action yet. Otherwise, Cheat Engine could easily be attached to Notepad, which would be the equivalent of the keys being in the ignition of the car parked in front of you -- when attached to Notepad, Cheat Engine will not interact with GW2 in any way. > > Why would I even want to look up third party software. I don't want other programs to "help" me play games, or to help me "cheat" in games, or "help" me press 1 button and do entire dps rotations. I am old, I have been playing games since LONG before there were mmos. I use a 2 button mouse and actually enjoy playing the game myself. I don't like to even use sites like Dulfy unless I have given whatever I am attempting an honest effort (usually upwards of 12 hours). The fun of playing is the discovery and adventure. I honestly don't care what else some of the programs "could" be used for. Anet determined that they could be used to give an advantage in game (whether that is what people used them for or not is irrelevant). People had third party (potentially cheating) software open for numerous hours while playing Guild Wars 2 and were suspended for it. Don’t try to make an analogy for software you don’t understand and are unwilling to learn about to fill the gaps in your knowledge. I’m only referring to 1 of the pieces of software that has quite a bit of utility outside potentially cheating despite the name, not the other 4 that are definitely not general purpose tools and are aimed at cheating/botting. — > @"trueanimus.4085" said: > > > See what he said. Despite the name, Cheat Engine is not a cheat program, even though it can be used as such. > > i think that statement says it all... > > if you think that there is even a 0.0001% chance you might get banned for cheating... and you use a program called cheat engine... but yeah you were not cheating.... i still think you knew it might happen at some point and there is no one to blame but yourself... i mean come on dude... > > you installed something called CHEAT ENGINE but you didnt cheat? really.. > > and bill clinton didnt inhale ... right? > > You’re digging the hole deeper, showing that you know nothing about the other ways Cheat Engine can be used. Stop commenting on its name as justification unless you’re willing to go and learn more about it. Side note: you’re assuming I’m banned. Well, you’re wrong. I also have not used CE to cheat in GW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueanimus.4085 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > @"trueanimus.4085" said: > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > @"trueanimus.4085" said: > > > > > > > > > If you're in Germany or the EU in general try reading the EULA. You have a remedy. You can have your money refunded and your account deleted. > > > > > > > > EULA means everything in situations like this... basically by signing in , you are agreeing to let them do whatever they want. But that is kind of funny when you state it like that lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could you point out the part of the EULA that allows them to do whatever they want? What if they wipe out your hard drive in case you might be cheating? Can they use it to mine bitcoin? > > > > When there is a patch... you agree by loading the launcher to add the patch correct? It has to make changes to your HD to do so.. correct? By loading the game, you have already given them access to your HD. > > > > They cant legally snoop your pc for your information... bank accounts, cc numbers etc.. but.. as a part of the software (as with most software these days) they can gather information reliant to the game and making sure it runs correctly on your system, i am sure there is a section in the EULA about agreeing to a listing of processes running on your pc for diagnostic use or something pretty close. > > > > Most software EULA's has this and a section that by running said program, you agree not to sue them in case of damages etc.. blah blah.. you know the drill. > > > > I didn't mean they could wipe your HD etc for cheating.. but they can snoop simple things such as processes lists if it pertains to diagnostics. > > Well, you said "everything" and that was going on a bit not just by you, and I was wondering where that went. And them updating the game is a necessary thing to even be able to play the game. They may install updates. it doesn't mean they can install anything. > > > > > > > Oh and btw.... i think that is covered under montoring > > > > 7. PRIVACY AND DATA PROTECTION > > It is Your responsibility to read, understand and accept the Privacy Policy in effect in connection with Your use of the Service. You acknowledge that ArenaNet may make changes to the Privacy Policy at any time. You also acknowledge that each and every time You click “I ACCEPT” You warrant and represent that You did read, understand and accept the most recent version of the Privacy Policy in effect at that time. > > ArenaNet has no obligation under any circumstances to review any information, feedback or communication related to the Game. ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, choose to review any information, feedback or communication **related to the Game**. ArenaNet may take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on any information, feedback or communication **related to the Game**, including but not limited to publicly commenting upon or publishing the foregoing. ArenaNet has no obligation to explain any decision to take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on any information, feedback or communication related to the Game. **You acknowledge, and further agree, that You have no obligation to provide ArenaNet any information, feedback or communications **related to the Game.** In addition to the provisions of Section 13 below, You further agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless ArenaNet with respect to any claim related to any information, feedback or communications You provide under this Section 7(b). > >ArenaNet has no obligation under any circumstances to monitor Conduct or other activities related to the Game. ArenaNet may **in its reasonable discretion**, choose to monitor Conduct or other activities **related to the Game**.You consent to the foregoing monitoring and acknowledge that ArenaNet may conduct such monitoring, including but not limited to monitoring in-Game communications and Message Boards provided by ArenaNet as well as third-party Message Boards and the like. You also acknowledge that ArenaNet may take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on such monitoring, including but not limited to action under Section 5, and that ArenaNet has no obligation to explain any decision to take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on such monitoring.** > > ** > > Emphasis mine. > > When it comes to the game itself. I agree you have no privacy because you are playing in Arenanet's house. They call the shots and can ban you as they see fit. As a result, they can definitely check my computer to see if I am running a hacking program. But past that, they're in my house. Think you missed this part in section d INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8© or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS. they can monitor you at any time and ban you for anything they see fit. This includes monitoring your process list, ram and HD and even the connection to the server... period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 > @"trueanimus.4085" said: > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > @"trueanimus.4085" said: > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > > @"trueanimus.4085" said: > > > > > > > > > > > If you're in Germany or the EU in general try reading the EULA. You have a remedy. You can have your money refunded and your account deleted. > > > > > > > > > > EULA means everything in situations like this... basically by signing in , you are agreeing to let them do whatever they want. But that is kind of funny when you state it like that lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could you point out the part of the EULA that allows them to do whatever they want? What if they wipe out your hard drive in case you might be cheating? Can they use it to mine bitcoin? > > > > > > When there is a patch... you agree by loading the launcher to add the patch correct? It has to make changes to your HD to do so.. correct? By loading the game, you have already given them access to your HD. > > > > > > They cant legally snoop your pc for your information... bank accounts, cc numbers etc.. but.. as a part of the software (as with most software these days) they can gather information reliant to the game and making sure it runs correctly on your system, i am sure there is a section in the EULA about agreeing to a listing of processes running on your pc for diagnostic use or something pretty close. > > > > > > Most software EULA's has this and a section that by running said program, you agree not to sue them in case of damages etc.. blah blah.. you know the drill. > > > > > > I didn't mean they could wipe your HD etc for cheating.. but they can snoop simple things such as processes lists if it pertains to diagnostics. > > > > Well, you said "everything" and that was going on a bit not just by you, and I was wondering where that went. And them updating the game is a necessary thing to even be able to play the game. They may install updates. it doesn't mean they can install anything. > > > > > > > > > > > Oh and btw.... i think that is covered under montoring > > > > > > 7. PRIVACY AND DATA PROTECTION > > > It is Your responsibility to read, understand and accept the Privacy Policy in effect in connection with Your use of the Service. You acknowledge that ArenaNet may make changes to the Privacy Policy at any time. You also acknowledge that each and every time You click “I ACCEPT” You warrant and represent that You did read, understand and accept the most recent version of the Privacy Policy in effect at that time. > > > ArenaNet has no obligation under any circumstances to review any information, feedback or communication related to the Game. ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, choose to review any information, feedback or communication **related to the Game**. ArenaNet may take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on any information, feedback or communication **related to the Game**, including but not limited to publicly commenting upon or publishing the foregoing. ArenaNet has no obligation to explain any decision to take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on any information, feedback or communication related to the Game. **You acknowledge, and further agree, that You have no obligation to provide ArenaNet any information, feedback or communications **related to the Game.** In addition to the provisions of Section 13 below, You further agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless ArenaNet with respect to any claim related to any information, feedback or communications You provide under this Section 7(b). > > >ArenaNet has no obligation under any circumstances to monitor Conduct or other activities related to the Game. ArenaNet may **in its reasonable discretion**, choose to monitor Conduct or other activities **related to the Game**.You consent to the foregoing monitoring and acknowledge that ArenaNet may conduct such monitoring, including but not limited to monitoring in-Game communications and Message Boards provided by ArenaNet as well as third-party Message Boards and the like. You also acknowledge that ArenaNet may take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on such monitoring, including but not limited to action under Section 5, and that ArenaNet has no obligation to explain any decision to take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on such monitoring.** > > > ** > > > > Emphasis mine. > > > > When it comes to the game itself. I agree you have no privacy because you are playing in Arenanet's house. They call the shots and can ban you as they see fit. As a result, they can definitely check my computer to see if I am running a hacking program. But past that, they're in my house. > > Think you missed this part in section d > INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8© or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS. > > they can monitor you at any time and ban you for anything they see fit. This includes monitoring your process list, ram and HD and even the connection to the server... period. I didn't miss anything. It looks like you must have not read my post at all. I already said they could ban you as they see fit. But no, they can't monitor you at any time. Perhaps you missed the thing I bolded 3 or 4 times? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trueanimus.4085 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 > @"Faaris.8013" said: > > @"trueanimus.4085" said: > > > > > > @"trueanimus.4085" said: > > > > > > > > > If you're in Germany or the EU in general try reading the EULA. You have a remedy. You can have your money refunded and your account deleted. > > > > > > > > EULA means everything in situations like this... basically by signing in , you are agreeing to let them do whatever they want. But that is kind of funny when you state it like that lol > > > > > > > > > > The point is that you are not bound to the EULA or any other agreement if you were not shown it and agreed to it before buying the game (in Germany). When I go to the Anet webpage and purchase GW2, then get the download link and install the game, it's already too late for the EULA. > > > > > > It is indeed kinda funny that you lol about this out of ignorance. It's not something everybody knows (or needs to know), I admit that, but you could have given GreyWolf the beneefit of doubt after his statement and look it up. > > > > the EULA works just like anything else... > > > > You can download itunes for example from the website, you can install it and even never use it... but the moment you run the itunes software you are agreeing to the EULA.. There is a popup that makes you answer YES or if you click NO it just cancels the install. > > > > Same with the game.. when you install it, you have to click YES and agree to the terms before it will let you install... OR yes when you load in to play. I may be lost on which one it is.. but trust me.. there is a EULA you have to agree to before you log in. > > > > There is always a catch. To play the game you have to connect to their servers and there is (as i have seen it) an eula somewhere in the process you have to agree to before you log in to play.... saying that there isnt is the real ignorance. Once you click yes.. you agree not to sue them etc... so any counter suits for breech of privacy are all null and void because you agreed to the terms. > > > > > > You still refuse to look it up. While looking it up for you in English, I stumbled over this nugget: > > http://www.aaronkellylaw.com/online-privacy-is-under-fire-in-germany/ > > That's from 2011, it should be known in the game industry to not kitten with Germans when it comes to privacy and data protection. > > I cannot find an English page explaining the EULA - Germany relationship, but in short, the EULA is treated in Germany like AGB (Allgemeine Geschäftsbedingungen), and the AGB are only binding if they were shown the buyer and when he agreed to them before the purchase (and in many cases, AGB have things in them that are against the law, which of course overrules them). This is usually not the case with software. You buy the software license and then you are asked to accept the EULA before the download or installation, therefore, you are not bound to it in Germany. > > http://www.kitten-legal.de/09-lizenzvertrag-eula Im guessing here but prob 99.9% of the accounts were banned in the USA and those that were banned overseas cant sue a US company anyway. AGB or EULA... they state that they have the right to monitor your pc (processes, ram, HD and even connection) and they banned you for running cheat programs at the same time as the game exe. Cheating or not.. they have the right to ban you at any time for any reason according to the agreement you clicked yes to. buh bye now... no no... just... Buh Bye... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galmac.4680 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 Just being curious, what else than cheating can be done with this "Cheat Engine"?? I really don't know this program Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightlark.4029 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 > @"Galmac.4680" said: > Just being curious, what else than cheating can be done with this "Cheat Engine"?? I really don't know this program Here is an excerpt from their website. It’s basically a powerful debugger, with a name that is more questionable than many of the other debuggers out there. The section before this is specifically about it being useful for manipulating _single player_ games to make them easier or harder. > also contains other usefull tools to help debugging games and even normal applications, and helps you protect your system by letting you inspect memory modifications by backdoors and even contains some ways to unhide them from conventional means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewon.5903 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 > @"Healix.5819" said: > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > We're saying don't ask ANet to use more common sense or be more responsible with their actions > > They missed so many obvious cheats in this wave, like Synapse, LGS and CUE. > > I'm unsure if you are joking, but I would like to ask, has ArenaNet ever made it clear that programs such as Razer Synapse, or other gaming gear equivalents, are allowed to be used in conjunction with GW2? Based off of the ban for CheatEngine, even without interacting with GW2, the EULA/ToS is still vague enough to technically ban for that. Razer Synapse could also technically fall in that catigory. arcDPS as well, but that one has been given the ok by Anet. So has Razer Synapse ever been mentioned by them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Healix.5819 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 > @"Ewon.5903" said: > I'm unsure if you are joking, but I would like to ask, has ArenaNet ever made it clear that programs such as Razer Synapse, or other gaming gear equivalents, are allowed to be used in conjunction with GW2? Specifically, probably not, but you can make assumptions since they allow basic macros. Technically they are against the ToS since they can be classed as automation software. Macros are the most commonly used tools to automate gameplay, but it'd be far more ridiculous if they did the same thing as they did here. However, similar to what they did here, they would only target AutoHotKey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > > > > > > > Let me fix your analogy when applied to cheat engine for you: > > > > > Logged into guild wars with cheat engine running is like standing outside of several cars in the driveway while drunk with keys in hand -- you won't get a DUI unless there is further evidence that you had driven while drunk. > > > > > > > > If you are logged IN to the game AND have the cheat software on AT THE SAME TIME, you are clearly inside the car. with the keys in the ignition. You have the option to drive (or to use your cheat software). Anet does not need to know anything else, and neither does law enforcement. I'm just sad the suspensions aren't bans, but it was nice they at least made them longer than 3 days. > > > There is a big difference between Cheat Engine being attached to GW2 and not being attached to GW2 -- and that is something that ANet could have detected with a small amount of additional code. Your response seems to shows a lack of understanding of what Cheat Engine is (and how it falls into the tools category more than cheat category like other software ANet was looking for) -- I'd suggest checking out the software and learning more about it, maybe even trying it out to gain a basic understanding of its operation (not with GW2 -- try messing with the timer in minesweeper), and learn about some of its legitimate (non-cheating) uses as a development tool before claiming that simply having cheat engine running is the equivalent of having keys in the ignition. > > > > > > With any of the other software ANet was banning for, I'd agree with your analogy, but with Cheat Engine, simply the program running is the equivalent of being outside the car -- it can't touch GW2 unless the person using it decides to _attach_ it to the GW2 process, at which point it can begin interacting with GW2; that is like having the key in the ignition, since it shows obvious intent to use it to "cheat" in GW2, even though they haven't carried out the action yet. Otherwise, Cheat Engine could easily be attached to Notepad, which would be the equivalent of the keys being in the ignition of the car parked in front of you -- when attached to Notepad, Cheat Engine will not interact with GW2 in any way. > > > > Why would I even want to look up third party software. I don't want other programs to "help" me play games, or to help me "cheat" in games, or "help" me press 1 button and do entire dps rotations. I am old, I have been playing games since LONG before there were mmos. I use a 2 button mouse and actually enjoy playing the game myself. I don't like to even use sites like Dulfy unless I have given whatever I am attempting an honest effort (usually upwards of 12 hours). The fun of playing is the discovery and adventure. I honestly don't care what else some of the programs "could" be used for. Anet determined that they could be used to give an advantage in game (whether that is what people used them for or not is irrelevant). People had third party (potentially cheating) software open for numerous hours while playing Guild Wars 2 and were suspended for it. > > Don’t try to make an analogy for software you don’t understand and are unwilling to learn about to fill the gaps in your knowledge. I’m only referring to 1 of the pieces of software that has quite a bit of utility outside potentially cheating despite the name, not the other 4 that are definitely not general purpose tools and are aimed at cheating/botting. > > — > > > @"trueanimus.4085" said: > > > > > See what he said. Despite the name, Cheat Engine is not a cheat program, even though it can be used as such. > > > > i think that statement says it all... > > > > if you think that there is even a 0.0001% chance you might get banned for cheating... and you use a program called cheat engine... but yeah you were not cheating.... i still think you knew it might happen at some point and there is no one to blame but yourself... i mean come on dude... > > > > you installed something called CHEAT ENGINE but you didnt cheat? really.. > > > > and bill clinton didnt inhale ... right? > > > > > You’re digging the hole deeper, showing that you know nothing about the other ways Cheat Engine can be used. Stop commenting on its name as justification unless you’re willing to go and learn more about it. > > Side note: you’re assuming I’m banned. Well, you’re wrong. I also have not used CE to cheat in GW2. Every poster I have responded to re CE asking them why they installed it, why it was running at same time as GW2 and what do they use it for... hmm silence so far - - > suspicious lots I am :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewon.5903 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Let me fix your analogy when applied to cheat engine for you: > > > > > > Logged into guild wars with cheat engine running is like standing outside of several cars in the driveway while drunk with keys in hand -- you won't get a DUI unless there is further evidence that you had driven while drunk. > > > > > > > > > > If you are logged IN to the game AND have the cheat software on AT THE SAME TIME, you are clearly inside the car. with the keys in the ignition. You have the option to drive (or to use your cheat software). Anet does not need to know anything else, and neither does law enforcement. I'm just sad the suspensions aren't bans, but it was nice they at least made them longer than 3 days. > > > > There is a big difference between Cheat Engine being attached to GW2 and not being attached to GW2 -- and that is something that ANet could have detected with a small amount of additional code. Your response seems to shows a lack of understanding of what Cheat Engine is (and how it falls into the tools category more than cheat category like other software ANet was looking for) -- I'd suggest checking out the software and learning more about it, maybe even trying it out to gain a basic understanding of its operation (not with GW2 -- try messing with the timer in minesweeper), and learn about some of its legitimate (non-cheating) uses as a development tool before claiming that simply having cheat engine running is the equivalent of having keys in the ignition. > > > > > > > > With any of the other software ANet was banning for, I'd agree with your analogy, but with Cheat Engine, simply the program running is the equivalent of being outside the car -- it can't touch GW2 unless the person using it decides to _attach_ it to the GW2 process, at which point it can begin interacting with GW2; that is like having the key in the ignition, since it shows obvious intent to use it to "cheat" in GW2, even though they haven't carried out the action yet. Otherwise, Cheat Engine could easily be attached to Notepad, which would be the equivalent of the keys being in the ignition of the car parked in front of you -- when attached to Notepad, Cheat Engine will not interact with GW2 in any way. > > > > > > Why would I even want to look up third party software. I don't want other programs to "help" me play games, or to help me "cheat" in games, or "help" me press 1 button and do entire dps rotations. I am old, I have been playing games since LONG before there were mmos. I use a 2 button mouse and actually enjoy playing the game myself. I don't like to even use sites like Dulfy unless I have given whatever I am attempting an honest effort (usually upwards of 12 hours). The fun of playing is the discovery and adventure. I honestly don't care what else some of the programs "could" be used for. Anet determined that they could be used to give an advantage in game (whether that is what people used them for or not is irrelevant). People had third party (potentially cheating) software open for numerous hours while playing Guild Wars 2 and were suspended for it. > > > > Don’t try to make an analogy for software you don’t understand and are unwilling to learn about to fill the gaps in your knowledge. I’m only referring to 1 of the pieces of software that has quite a bit of utility outside potentially cheating despite the name, not the other 4 that are definitely not general purpose tools and are aimed at cheating/botting. > > > > — > > > > > @"trueanimus.4085" said: > > > > > > > See what he said. Despite the name, Cheat Engine is not a cheat program, even though it can be used as such. > > > > > > i think that statement says it all... > > > > > > if you think that there is even a 0.0001% chance you might get banned for cheating... and you use a program called cheat engine... but yeah you were not cheating.... i still think you knew it might happen at some point and there is no one to blame but yourself... i mean come on dude... > > > > > > you installed something called CHEAT ENGINE but you didnt cheat? really.. > > > > > > and bill clinton didnt inhale ... right? > > > > > > > > You’re digging the hole deeper, showing that you know nothing about the other ways Cheat Engine can be used. Stop commenting on its name as justification unless you’re willing to go and learn more about it. > > > > Side note: you’re assuming I’m banned. Well, you’re wrong. I also have not used CE to cheat in GW2. > > Every poster I have responded to re CE asking them why they installed it, why it was running at same time as GW2 and what do they use it for... hmm silence so far - - > suspicious lots I am :) I don't actually have CheatEngine, but I once looked into getting it, so I'll try to give you an example if others can't. First, why is GW2 open, I tend to do a lot with the trading post so I leave it open and swap back to look at when orders are in, or items sold. So in my case, gw2 is basically open 100% of the time I'm at my pc even if I'm not actively playing it. I could be working (graphic designer), or playing another game. So why did I look into CheatEngine. Well, I was playing Salt and Sactuary. I beat normal mode in Salt and Sactuary and started playing NG+. At the end of normal I recieved Overlord Armor which I thought ok, it's better armor, I'll use it for NG+. It turns out I needed 4 Drowned Tomes in order to craft the final tier of it. When I looked into how to get those Drowned Tomes, it would only be possible for me to get 3. I thought that was stupid game design so I looked for a way to correct it. In the end, I decided to not bother. It would appear that was a smart move, as I could have been banned from GW2 for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belorn.2659 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 > @"trueanimus.4085" said: > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > @"trueanimus.4085" said: > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > > @"trueanimus.4085" said: > > > > > > > > > > > If you're in Germany or the EU in general try reading the EULA. You have a remedy. You can have your money refunded and your account deleted. > > > > > > > > > > EULA means everything in situations like this... basically by signing in , you are agreeing to let them do whatever they want. But that is kind of funny when you state it like that lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could you point out the part of the EULA that allows them to do whatever they want? What if they wipe out your hard drive in case you might be cheating? Can they use it to mine bitcoin? > > > > > > When there is a patch... you agree by loading the launcher to add the patch correct? It has to make changes to your HD to do so.. correct? By loading the game, you have already given them access to your HD. > > > > > > They cant legally snoop your pc for your information... bank accounts, cc numbers etc.. but.. as a part of the software (as with most software these days) they can gather information reliant to the game and making sure it runs correctly on your system, i am sure there is a section in the EULA about agreeing to a listing of processes running on your pc for diagnostic use or something pretty close. > > > > > > Most software EULA's has this and a section that by running said program, you agree not to sue them in case of damages etc.. blah blah.. you know the drill. > > > > > > I didn't mean they could wipe your HD etc for cheating.. but they can snoop simple things such as processes lists if it pertains to diagnostics. > > > > Well, you said "everything" and that was going on a bit not just by you, and I was wondering where that went. And them updating the game is a necessary thing to even be able to play the game. They may install updates. it doesn't mean they can install anything. > > > > > > > > > > > Oh and btw.... i think that is covered under montoring > > > > > > 7. PRIVACY AND DATA PROTECTION > > > It is Your responsibility to read, understand and accept the Privacy Policy in effect in connection with Your use of the Service. You acknowledge that ArenaNet may make changes to the Privacy Policy at any time. You also acknowledge that each and every time You click “I ACCEPT” You warrant and represent that You did read, understand and accept the most recent version of the Privacy Policy in effect at that time. > > > ArenaNet has no obligation under any circumstances to review any information, feedback or communication related to the Game. ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, choose to review any information, feedback or communication **related to the Game**. ArenaNet may take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on any information, feedback or communication **related to the Game**, including but not limited to publicly commenting upon or publishing the foregoing. ArenaNet has no obligation to explain any decision to take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on any information, feedback or communication related to the Game. **You acknowledge, and further agree, that You have no obligation to provide ArenaNet any information, feedback or communications **related to the Game.** In addition to the provisions of Section 13 below, You further agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless ArenaNet with respect to any claim related to any information, feedback or communications You provide under this Section 7(b). > > >ArenaNet has no obligation under any circumstances to monitor Conduct or other activities related to the Game. ArenaNet may **in its reasonable discretion**, choose to monitor Conduct or other activities **related to the Game**.You consent to the foregoing monitoring and acknowledge that ArenaNet may conduct such monitoring, including but not limited to monitoring in-Game communications and Message Boards provided by ArenaNet as well as third-party Message Boards and the like. You also acknowledge that ArenaNet may take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on such monitoring, including but not limited to action under Section 5, and that ArenaNet has no obligation to explain any decision to take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on such monitoring.** > > > ** > > > > Emphasis mine. > > > > When it comes to the game itself. I agree you have no privacy because you are playing in Arenanet's house. They call the shots and can ban you as they see fit. As a result, they can definitely check my computer to see if I am running a hacking program. But past that, they're in my house. > > Think you missed this part in section d > INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8© or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS. > > they can monitor you at any time and ban you for anything they see fit. This includes monitoring your process list, ram and HD and even the connection to the server... period. But do they have a right to store keep that in records and then for how long. Privacy laws and especially EU law focus more on the storage and record keeping rather than MONITORING. GDPR for example focus large parts on pseudonymisation and data breach protection. If it just monitoring in order to determine cheating that is a mostly fine. Its a cost that many players is willing to pay. If they keep permanent records that later can be part of data breaches, without any salt or other protections, then there is a major issue with the method they employ to catch cheaters. Could you quote the section about data retention from cpu process lists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeolus.3615 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 @Bloodstealer.5978, there are so may things CE can be done, like for example never used just the h4x0r feel, or maybe that rpg singleplayer that "i" amd playing at the same time has bots are runing on the background, i ment... my character is afk ofc. there are no bots. On a more serious note..... IMO for observing behaviors, players that tend to have CE open for the long run (ofc theres some exceptions...), dont actually use it on 1 game and even online games some rulesare defined locally and those are the hackable ones, it is because it is a easy access tool for many games, if some one was really about to run some downloaded script for one or two games, usually "players" tend actually do EXIT CE, cause the less tools are booted, the more heavier win becomes so they dont care more about it and will shutdown it, so exiting and leaving just some programs like synaptic, steam/orange, vent/and some other comm tools is the most common, i have seen even players that disable AV when go play online. My 10 Kitties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 > @"Ewon.5903" said: > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > > > > @"Ubi.4136" said: > > > > > > > @"Nightlark.4029" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me fix your analogy when applied to cheat engine for you: > > > > > > > Logged into guild wars with cheat engine running is like standing outside of several cars in the driveway while drunk with keys in hand -- you won't get a DUI unless there is further evidence that you had driven while drunk. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are logged IN to the game AND have the cheat software on AT THE SAME TIME, you are clearly inside the car. with the keys in the ignition. You have the option to drive (or to use your cheat software). Anet does not need to know anything else, and neither does law enforcement. I'm just sad the suspensions aren't bans, but it was nice they at least made them longer than 3 days. > > > > > There is a big difference between Cheat Engine being attached to GW2 and not being attached to GW2 -- and that is something that ANet could have detected with a small amount of additional code. Your response seems to shows a lack of understanding of what Cheat Engine is (and how it falls into the tools category more than cheat category like other software ANet was looking for) -- I'd suggest checking out the software and learning more about it, maybe even trying it out to gain a basic understanding of its operation (not with GW2 -- try messing with the timer in minesweeper), and learn about some of its legitimate (non-cheating) uses as a development tool before claiming that simply having cheat engine running is the equivalent of having keys in the ignition. > > > > > > > > > > With any of the other software ANet was banning for, I'd agree with your analogy, but with Cheat Engine, simply the program running is the equivalent of being outside the car -- it can't touch GW2 unless the person using it decides to _attach_ it to the GW2 process, at which point it can begin interacting with GW2; that is like having the key in the ignition, since it shows obvious intent to use it to "cheat" in GW2, even though they haven't carried out the action yet. Otherwise, Cheat Engine could easily be attached to Notepad, which would be the equivalent of the keys being in the ignition of the car parked in front of you -- when attached to Notepad, Cheat Engine will not interact with GW2 in any way. > > > > > > > > Why would I even want to look up third party software. I don't want other programs to "help" me play games, or to help me "cheat" in games, or "help" me press 1 button and do entire dps rotations. I am old, I have been playing games since LONG before there were mmos. I use a 2 button mouse and actually enjoy playing the game myself. I don't like to even use sites like Dulfy unless I have given whatever I am attempting an honest effort (usually upwards of 12 hours). The fun of playing is the discovery and adventure. I honestly don't care what else some of the programs "could" be used for. Anet determined that they could be used to give an advantage in game (whether that is what people used them for or not is irrelevant). People had third party (potentially cheating) software open for numerous hours while playing Guild Wars 2 and were suspended for it. > > > > > > Don’t try to make an analogy for software you don’t understand and are unwilling to learn about to fill the gaps in your knowledge. I’m only referring to 1 of the pieces of software that has quite a bit of utility outside potentially cheating despite the name, not the other 4 that are definitely not general purpose tools and are aimed at cheating/botting. > > > > > > — > > > > > > > @"trueanimus.4085" said: > > > > > > > > > See what he said. Despite the name, Cheat Engine is not a cheat program, even though it can be used as such. > > > > > > > > i think that statement says it all... > > > > > > > > if you think that there is even a 0.0001% chance you might get banned for cheating... and you use a program called cheat engine... but yeah you were not cheating.... i still think you knew it might happen at some point and there is no one to blame but yourself... i mean come on dude... > > > > > > > > you installed something called CHEAT ENGINE but you didnt cheat? really.. > > > > > > > > and bill clinton didnt inhale ... right? > > > > > > > > > > > You’re digging the hole deeper, showing that you know nothing about the other ways Cheat Engine can be used. Stop commenting on its name as justification unless you’re willing to go and learn more about it. > > > > > > Side note: you’re assuming I’m banned. Well, you’re wrong. I also have not used CE to cheat in GW2. > > > > Every poster I have responded to re CE asking them why they installed it, why it was running at same time as GW2 and what do they use it for... hmm silence so far - - > suspicious lots I am :) > > I don't actually have CheatEngine, but I once looked into getting it, so I'll try to give you an example if others can't. > > First, why is GW2 open, I tend to do a lot with the trading post so I leave it open and swap back to look at when orders are in, or items sold. So in my case, gw2 is basically open 100% of the time I'm at my pc even if I'm not actively playing it. I could be working (graphic designer), or playing another game. > > So why did I look into CheatEngine. Well, I was playing Salt and Sactuary. I beat normal mode in Salt and Sactuary and started playing NG+. At the end of normal I recieved Overlord Armor which I thought ok, it's better armor, I'll use it for NG+. It turns out I needed 4 Drowned Tomes in order to craft the final tier of it. When I looked into how to get those Drowned Tomes, it would only be possible for me to get 3. I thought that was stupid game design so I looked for a way to correct it. > > In the end, I decided to not bother. It would appear that was a smart move, as I could have been banned from GW2 for it. The point was... they never offered a counter, they simply preffered to skirt around it and ignore. You offer something for consideration.. all of which I already know but wanted to give the chance for those others proclaiming innocence to do the same. Some had already made it clear they don't use any third party software on their pc's except maybe taco or arcdps.. both of which I had already mentioned not to jump to conclusions on cos the numbers seemed way off for 3rd party app that anet allow to be used at own risk... then those same players came back after the anet post regarding what they were monitoring for... and all of a sudden they changed their story to but I only use Taco, Arcdps and CE.. and when asked they skirted and ignored - -so yeah ty for the insight, I already know of its uses but that was the kind of counter I was looking for to at least think.. hmm yeah put an appeal in and see. Of course lots of posters here are now past the looking at just taco/arcdps, now its all about CE cos there could be some more benign areas for consideration (fair enough) but there are others on the list that do not and who is to say some or all of those require CE to be there in order for the hacks to work.. or they have more than one of those on the list not just CE but they don't want to mention them. I would have more respect for players that are banned if they came here and said "yip, hands up you got me, I apologise anet" - kinda like one poster has done, but of course most cheats aren't that honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyWolf.8670 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 > @"Faaris.8013" said: > The point is that you are not bound to the EULA or any other agreement if you were not shown it and agreed to it before buying the game (in Germany). When I go to the Anet webpage and purchase GW2, then get the download link and install the game, it's already too late for the EULA. > No. You must agree to the EULA when you create your account **before** can you buy the game from ArenaNet **or** play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyWolf.8670 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 > @"Belorn.2659" said: > > @"trueanimus.4085" said: > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > @"trueanimus.4085" said: > > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > > > @"trueanimus.4085" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you're in Germany or the EU in general try reading the EULA. You have a remedy. You can have your money refunded and your account deleted. > > > > > > > > > > > > EULA means everything in situations like this... basically by signing in , you are agreeing to let them do whatever they want. But that is kind of funny when you state it like that lol > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could you point out the part of the EULA that allows them to do whatever they want? What if they wipe out your hard drive in case you might be cheating? Can they use it to mine bitcoin? > > > > > > > > When there is a patch... you agree by loading the launcher to add the patch correct? It has to make changes to your HD to do so.. correct? By loading the game, you have already given them access to your HD. > > > > > > > > They cant legally snoop your pc for your information... bank accounts, cc numbers etc.. but.. as a part of the software (as with most software these days) they can gather information reliant to the game and making sure it runs correctly on your system, i am sure there is a section in the EULA about agreeing to a listing of processes running on your pc for diagnostic use or something pretty close. > > > > > > > > Most software EULA's has this and a section that by running said program, you agree not to sue them in case of damages etc.. blah blah.. you know the drill. > > > > > > > > I didn't mean they could wipe your HD etc for cheating.. but they can snoop simple things such as processes lists if it pertains to diagnostics. > > > > > > Well, you said "everything" and that was going on a bit not just by you, and I was wondering where that went. And them updating the game is a necessary thing to even be able to play the game. They may install updates. it doesn't mean they can install anything. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh and btw.... i think that is covered under montoring > > > > > > > > 7. PRIVACY AND DATA PROTECTION > > > > It is Your responsibility to read, understand and accept the Privacy Policy in effect in connection with Your use of the Service. You acknowledge that ArenaNet may make changes to the Privacy Policy at any time. You also acknowledge that each and every time You click “I ACCEPT” You warrant and represent that You did read, understand and accept the most recent version of the Privacy Policy in effect at that time. > > > > ArenaNet has no obligation under any circumstances to review any information, feedback or communication related to the Game. ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, choose to review any information, feedback or communication **related to the Game**. ArenaNet may take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on any information, feedback or communication **related to the Game**, including but not limited to publicly commenting upon or publishing the foregoing. ArenaNet has no obligation to explain any decision to take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on any information, feedback or communication related to the Game. **You acknowledge, and further agree, that You have no obligation to provide ArenaNet any information, feedback or communications **related to the Game.** In addition to the provisions of Section 13 below, You further agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless ArenaNet with respect to any claim related to any information, feedback or communications You provide under this Section 7(b). > > > >ArenaNet has no obligation under any circumstances to monitor Conduct or other activities related to the Game. ArenaNet may **in its reasonable discretion**, choose to monitor Conduct or other activities **related to the Game**.You consent to the foregoing monitoring and acknowledge that ArenaNet may conduct such monitoring, including but not limited to monitoring in-Game communications and Message Boards provided by ArenaNet as well as third-party Message Boards and the like. You also acknowledge that ArenaNet may take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on such monitoring, including but not limited to action under Section 5, and that ArenaNet has no obligation to explain any decision to take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on such monitoring.** > > > > ** > > > > > > Emphasis mine. > > > > > > When it comes to the game itself. I agree you have no privacy because you are playing in Arenanet's house. They call the shots and can ban you as they see fit. As a result, they can definitely check my computer to see if I am running a hacking program. But past that, they're in my house. > > > > Think you missed this part in section d > > INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8© or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS. > > > > they can monitor you at any time and ban you for anything they see fit. This includes monitoring your process list, ram and HD and even the connection to the server... period. > > But do they have a right to store keep that in records and then for how long. Privacy laws and especially EU law focus more on the storage and record keeping rather than MONITORING. > > GDPR for example focus large parts on pseudonymisation and data breach protection. If it just monitoring in order to determine cheating that is a mostly fine. Its a cost that many players is willing to pay. If they keep permanent records that later can be part of data breaches, without any salt or other protections, then there is a major issue with the method they employ to catch cheaters. > > Could you quote the section about data retention from cpu process lists? You just quoted your answer. It's the last sentence of the paragraph: "YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewon.5903 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > The point was... they never offered a counter This sort of sounds like guilty until proven innocent. I had thought you were looking for reasons people use CheatEngine, had I have known, I wouldn't have bothered giving a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misterman.1530 Posted April 16, 2018 Share Posted April 16, 2018 > @"Grogba.6204" said: > Edit: Oh wait! I cheated the kitten out of the Age of Empires games, Anno series, Turok on the N64 and modded Steam games beyond repair. Clearly I am just as guilty to do this in an MMO as I am in single player games or multiplayer games according to you, aren't I? Well, if it walks like duck, smells like a duck, sounds like a duck...chances are it's a duck. This whole "I didn't cheat though...sniffle" sounds a bit like the old joke that everyone in prison is innocent. If you don't like Anet's answer, quit the game. There...done. Frankly, I plan on buying more gems as a thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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