Account suspension discussion [merged]

[Vault Girl.6792]

> @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> Al Capone went to prison for tax evasion because he was stupid. Do you think the Feds went after a known criminal because of his 'tax evasion?' Again, I'm all for cheating in certain games, but not in any MMO. Running any cheat program while playing an MMO is just asking for it.

>

> My apologies, but this one's all on you.

 

Tax evasion is against law. Running Cheat Engine is not against any rules, and I did not cheat in MMOs. It's not like I broke rules I did not know about, that's the point: I did not do anything wrong besides being not careful enough.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

> @"Vyrulisse.1246" said:

>

> "I believe that accounts that were flagged ONLY for "Cheat Engine" deserve a second look and maybe some leniency. Those other listed programs are clearly hacks for GW2 so I don't think there is any grey area there."

>

> I hope that makes my stance more clear. >.>

 

I'm curious. How do you propose those accused prove their cheats were for another game or how is ANet to know after the fact?

 

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

> @"Vault Girl.6792" said:

>

> Tax evasion is against law. Running Cheat Engine is not against any rules, and I did not cheat in MMOs. It's not like I broke rules I did not know about, that's the point: I did not do anything wrong besides being not careful enough.

 

You are aware you just stated that cheating isn't against any rules, right? It has 'cheat' in its name. Cheating breaks rules. And yes, sorry, you weren't careful enough.

 

Really? We're having that discussion now? Sigh. Best of luck convincing ANet of your innocence.

 

[CETheLucid.3964]

> @"Vyrulisse.1246" said:

> Multitasking in other games while waiting on Meta Event timers or queues isn't unheard of and it's actually quite common.

Sure.

> @"Vyrulisse.1246" said:

> Do you think people stare at a countdown timer the entire time they're standing around waiting on things in this game?

Of course not.

> @"Vyrulisse.1246" said:

> It's not a stretch to assume if you weren't using something to effect Guild Wars 2 then you shouldn't have to worry about being banned.

Common sense tells me while I'm playing an MMO I probably shouldn't run CheatEngine with it. That I might trigger some sort of anti-cheat detection.

> @"Vyrulisse.1246" said:

> A.net assuming they have jurisdiction over everyone's PC beyond their own game is pretty troubling.

They don't though. Anet's decision is solely based around their game and the punishment handed out is only effective to their own game irrespective of what you do on your PC or what you have running.

 

That people are cheats or else extremely lacking in common sense to the point you begin to understand why they have to put a "do not place your pets in the microwave" sticker on microwaves... can't be helped. It is what it is.

 

I've done stupid crap. It happens.

> @"Vault Girl.6792" said:

> What's wrong with that?

It got you banned for 6 months for one thing.

> @"Vault Girl.6792" said:

> If I play some game for a week, I have Cheat Engine open this whole week.

I'd reconsider doing that while playing GW2 (or any MMO or online game you're not wanting to get banned from) if I were you in about 6 months.

[FrostDraco.8306]

Arena net can ban my account, for cheating, when ive never cheated in any online game I have ever played, and put money into this game every month. In addition to the invasion of privacy they employed to do so. Bad balance, terrible forum moderators, and absolutely ignoring all the feedback they've ever been given.

 

But win traders, fly hackers, and speed hackers can run rampant for months, and never receive a single ban from arena net. That goes to show what this company thinks of honest customers. Even if the ban is overturned, I wont be returning to Guild Wars 2. Arena net doesn't know how to run a game properly. They should take some lessons from Digital extremes.

[Vault Girl.6792]

> @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > @"Vault Girl.6792" said:

> >

> > Tax evasion is against law. Running Cheat Engine is not against any rules, and I did not cheat in MMOs. It's not like I broke rules I did not know about, that's the point: I did not do anything wrong besides being not careful enough.

>

> You are aware you just stated that cheating isn't against any rules, right? It has 'cheat' in its name. Cheating breaks rules. And yes, sorry, you weren't careful enough.

>

 

Running Cheat Engine != using it for GW2. Cheating in other games should lead to bans in these games (but of course nobody cares, since they are single-player games), not in GW2. I did not violate anything from _GW2_ user agreement.

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"Tekoneiric.6817" said:

> > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> > Hello,

> >

> > I wanted to be sure that folks who are following or participating in this thread are aware that we've provided a lot of additional information this evening in [this post](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/476255/#Comment_476255 "this thread"). I hope that in reading that update, you'll find your questions are answered.

>

> Can we please get a formal list of tested and approved 3rd party software for use in connection with GW2? It would avoid many issues with the GW2 community.

 

The problem with this is that it would need to be integrated and manually checked by ANet for every piece of software on this list with every update to every piece of software.

 

ArcDPS is by all means an illegal program by the Terms of Service, but has been temporary greenlit as of a few patches ago **only for that version** by ANet.

Anything that may be currently allowed could easily patch a rogue update after getting on the approved list and then be endorsed by ANet for an arbitrary amount of time. This opens them up to major legal problems as they would then be violating their own agreement and just maintaining the list would be a massive undertaking as every piece of software would need to go through ANet directly as part of their CM/Build process, which also gets nightmarish with hosting, security, and so on. It'd be a full-time job for a bunch of senior engineers to do code reviews on just a few applications.

 

The bottom line is this: If you don't want to be banned or caught up in this kind of activity, read and understand the Terms of Service and Privacy Policy you agreed to when making an account, and then proceed to just not do anything in violation with those terms. ANet ultimately can suspend any account for no reason - even something as stupid as thinking your character looks ugly - just it's not business-savvy to do that. Realistically, if you want to avoid a ban... just don't use any third party software tools that may interact with the game, or ask the community in advance.

 

I personally use no extensions, add-ons, overlays, or anything for this exact kind of reason. There's absolutely no worry or concern, no unstable add-ons that hit performance or cause errors/crashes/lag, and no concerns of a security loophole in someone else's hobby program that could compromise my account.

 

[Vault Girl.6792]

> @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > @"Vault Girl.6792" said:

> > If I play some game for a week, I have Cheat Engine open this whole week.

> I'd reconsider doing that while playing GW2 (or any MMO or online game you're not wanting to get banned from) if I were you in about 6 months.

 

Of course, that was stupid. And still, it's not a valid reason to ban someone for 6 months. I believe that should require more proofs.

[TexZero.7910]

You agreed to them being able to do this, without cause at any point the so choose.

 

Don't like it ?

Contact support and ask for your account to be terminated.

 

Else, read the User Agreement and Deal with it.

[Quarktastic.1027]


 

 

Body is 10 characters too short.

 

[FrostDraco.8306]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> You agreed to them being able to do this, without cause at any point the so choose.

>

> Don't like it ?

> Contact support and ask for your account to be terminated.

>

> Else, read the User Agreement and Deal with it.

 

I'll do just that.

[MashMash.1645]

> @"Vault Girl.6792" said:

> I personally don't see any problems with Anet collecting my data (everyone does it anyway), I don't have much to hide, and I don't think it violates my privacy a lot.

 

That seems like a very naive attitude.

 

Why do you think things like the facebook issue have blown up, and why regulators, especially in Europe, etc are looking to tighten up these sorts of things.

 

You might not care about privacy, but plenty of people do.

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"Vault Girl.6792" said:

> > @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > > @"Vault Girl.6792" said:

> > > If I play some game for a week, I have Cheat Engine open this whole week.

> > I'd reconsider doing that while playing GW2 (or any MMO or online game you're not wanting to get banned from) if I were you in about 6 months.

>

> Of course, that was stupid. And still, it's not a valid reason to ban someone for 6 months. I believe that should require more proofs.

 

This is literally the most painfully obvious way to catch a cheater and a solution a LOT of games have to catch them.

 

All I see from this is you claiming "I'm a cheater, just not in GW2," and if I were back in working in game support administration, that alone would be enough for me to tell you not to let the door hit you on the way out because that general mentality isn't acceptable.

 

Edit:

As far as violating the user agreement for GW2; ANet owns your account and can ban you just on speculation or really without any reason at all. You've even just now said you cheat in other games. That alone is sufficient to warrant a ban. Asking how to cheat in other games or demonstrating or discussing cheating in other games on these forums, for example, will almost guarantee a ban and likely an account investigation.

 

Why is GW2 even open if you're not playing it and actively cheating in another game? Honestly, fighting it is digging you deeper than it is helping you at this point.

[Vault Girl.6792]

> @"starhunter.6015" said:

> Actually I can prove to the proper authorities I haven't killed any one. A few ways at that, haven't been at or near any recent murder scene (an not talking about some murder that happend like 10-20 years ago) Can often prove where I have been or am at. Being a adult means you're tracked at work and pretty much every where else you go to spend money via a card. Plus only dna that would come off any of my knives ,mainly x-acto's by the way. would be my own dna from slipping while working on art.

> Plus Anet didn't look to at your files only the processes running. The one program was a known hack for GW2 even if you wasn't using it for GW2 you became guilty by association . But that is all on you since you had it on your pc, you had it running. A mistake sure , a lesson learned sure and a hard one at that.

 

Well, and Anet can analyse my data and see that there have been no suspicious changes at all. It's relatively easy to check at least whether a player teleports, uses any macros or receives less damage than intended.

[Vault Girl.6792]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > @"Vault Girl.6792" said:

> > > @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > > > @"Vault Girl.6792" said:

> > > > If I play some game for a week, I have Cheat Engine open this whole week.

> > > I'd reconsider doing that while playing GW2 (or any MMO or online game you're not wanting to get banned from) if I were you in about 6 months.

> >

> > Of course, that was stupid. And still, it's not a valid reason to ban someone for 6 months. I believe that should require more proofs.

>

> This is literally the most painfully obvious way to catch a cheater and a solution a LOT of games have to catch them.

>

> All I see from this is you claiming "I'm a cheater, just not in GW2," and if I were back in working in game support administration, that alone would be enough for me to tell you not to let the door hit you on the way out because that general mentality isn't acceptable.

 

"Obvious" doesn't mean "accurate". They could have checked whether a program changes anything in the game. Also, there are a lot of videos/screenshots of players, who are clearly cheating.

Also, what's wrong with cheating in single-player games?

[CETheLucid.3964]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > @"Vault Girl.6792" said:

> > > @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > > > @"Vault Girl.6792" said:

> > > > If I play some game for a week, I have Cheat Engine open this whole week.

> > > I'd reconsider doing that while playing GW2 (or any MMO or online game you're not wanting to get banned from) if I were you in about 6 months.

> >

> > Of course, that was stupid. And still, it's not a valid reason to ban someone for 6 months. I believe that should require more proofs.

>

> This is literally the most painfully obvious way to catch a cheater and a solution a LOT of games have to catch them.

>

> All I see from this is you claiming "I'm a cheater, just not in GW2," and if I were back in working in game support administration, that alone would be enough for me to tell you not to let the door hit you on the way out because that general mentality isn't acceptable.

 

You're going a step too far there friend. Having fun in single player games, hacking it up, changing values, all that's well and good. You haven't played Fallout 4 until you've modded the ever loving kitten out of it!

 

But yeah. Don't do it in multiplayer games though. And maybe don't use the CheatEngine and hack tools while the multiplayer game is also running. Bad idea.

[Vault Girl.6792]

> @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> Why is GW2 even open if you're not playing it and actively cheating in another game? Honestly, fighting it is digging you deeper than it is helping you at this point.

 

I explained that in this thread several times. Because I

1. Play some other game with Cheat Engine.

2. Close the game and do dailies in GW2, exit GW2.

3. Open the other game again.

 

I didn't write anything like "open if you're not playing it". When GW2 is open, I am playing it, I just don't close Cheat Engine. At the moment I have a lot of open tabs in my browser, and I'm going to read these pages only in several hours. I mean, it's normal to not close something you are planning to use later.

[Kumouta.4985]

If you haven't cheated, you wouldn't be banned, so can you list which addons you used? Some of the people semi-appealing on the forums had an illegal addon besides taco/arc.

[Linken.6345]

I could use some stuff aswell and Im willing to wait 6 months

[Sky Fell.7604]

Thankfully I didn't decide to play any games with mods that need cheat engine this month.

 

[This mod in particular.](https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/132/ "This mod in particular.")

 

It's very easy to forget about it and leave it open when switching games, or leaving GW2 open to chit chat.

 

[This thread](

"This thread") is confirmed by [Gaile's post](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/476255/#Comment_476255 "Gaile's post").

 

There SHOULD be anti-cheat measures, but this implementation is horrendous. At least check if memory is being modified, unexpected data is being sent, or the process is being hooked into.

 

[mortrialus.3062]

Wait, can banned people still post on the forums?

[Vulcaruss.9567]

> @"usnedward.9023" said:

> > @"Vulcaruss.9567" said:

> > > @"usnedward.9023" said:

> > > You people understand that these hacks and cheats involve dll files in the GW2 directory. IF ANET wants to see what is loading when the game loads.... BAM you're busted. Simple as that. I think this thread is getting hilarious with the whole "spyware" thing since:

> > >

> > > 1. My antivirus will detect it because it is proactive

> > > 2. More than likely it is part of ANETs software to which you agreed to install and use and you violated the TOS (like I did) and got caught

> > > 3. This has NOTHING to do with the addons UNLESS they were not sanctioned with an API key

> > > 4. The extreme punishment (not so extreme really) is proof in the pudding that there was activities beyond the TOS agreement that got you (and me) banned

> > > 5. The fact that ANET WILL NOT be entertaining appeals for these accounts is even MORE proof you cheated

> > >

> > > Why is so hard to accept that? Because you poured many hours in the game, cash and so forth? Chance you took.

> > >

> > > YOU = anyone who says they did not do anything and got banned. BTW "here look at my computer" does nothing with delete and empty trash....

> >

> > Oh look another guy who's saying I'm lying and that I deserve the punishment all cause of a program I left active on my computer and didn't think would be a problem cause it wasn't synchronized to the game just sitting there... doing nothing. I stand by my story usnedward.9023 I have nothing to gain or lose by lying at this point. Anet will probably just ignore all of this, keep a stern stance and say "screw you we're keeping this in place just cause." ... The Gall you have man.

>

> I am not calling everyone a "liar". Here is what I would LOVE to see and I know ANET will never do it.

>

> 1. You say you didn't do anything (you meaning anyone and not just you)

> 2. ANET publishes the data they collected on you (Again you is general) and look...this toon just ran at 180% run speed in WvW. And they document that.

> 3. ANET publishes data showing you somehow went from ground base zero to 500 foot in the air and then moved sideways. And they document that.

> 4. ANET publishes data showing were outside a keep, no walls or gates down, tier three, and now you are inside creating a portal and letting everyone in. And they document that

> 5. ANET publishes you under the map hitting POI after POI. And they document that.

> 6. ANET publishes how you flew over or walked through walls for gated content. And they document that

> 7. And so on and so forth. BUT this is not going to happen.

>

> You left a program active and I don't understand by what you mean. It is obviously something that you used that was known it shouldn't be? I apologize because they merged my thread with this one and I cannot speak to your point. My guess is YES you will not be getting your account back before 6 months and NO I do not think ANET put out spyware. That would kill them legally and financially not to mention they do not even own the game so whatever the course they took was proactive and cautious and involved the original game designer NCSoft. 1583 accounts is a relatively a small amount of accounts. Maybe the last eight months they are investigating reports. Monitor you. Say yep add to the ban list. Maybe they weren't watching us at all via software......

>

> EDIT: I was a little late to the party and saw Gaile's response. So they were watching in some sort of way. My apologies but it does not affect the outcome nor my opinion if you used it and got banned it's on you. Quit trying to blame the company YOU were taking advantage of.

>

>

 

"Taking Advantage of" Right I believe I already said it was JUST SITTING THERE. Doing nothing. Not affecting the game in anyway. I could not of been "Taking Advantage of them cause It was never actively sync'd to GW2 in the first place!.... Gods Help you cause you need to read....

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > @"DeceiverX.8361" said:

> > > @"Vault Girl.6792" said:

> > > > @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > > > > @"Vault Girl.6792" said:

> > > > > If I play some game for a week, I have Cheat Engine open this whole week.

> > > > I'd reconsider doing that while playing GW2 (or any MMO or online game you're not wanting to get banned from) if I were you in about 6 months.

> > >

> > > Of course, that was stupid. And still, it's not a valid reason to ban someone for 6 months. I believe that should require more proofs.

> >

> > This is literally the most painfully obvious way to catch a cheater and a solution a LOT of games have to catch them.

> >

> > All I see from this is you claiming "I'm a cheater, just not in GW2," and if I were back in working in game support administration, that alone would be enough for me to tell you not to let the door hit you on the way out because that general mentality isn't acceptable.

>

> You're going a step too far there friend. Having fun in single player games, hacking it up, changing values, all that's well and good. You haven't played Fallout 4 until you've modded the ever loving kitten out of it!

>

> But yeah. Don't do it in multiplayer games though. And maybe don't use the CheatEngine and hack tools while the multiplayer game is also running. Bad idea.

 

Bad example with anything by bethesda because you don't need to run cheatengine or mainstream hacking software to rip their games to pieces. I'm a skyrim modder and honestly can't think of any reason to need cheatengine. They also just outright give everyone their engine to mess around with. All that kind of basic tweaking can be done in their engine which they hand out. Even in many other games, the hacks are standalone. Unless you're a developer, there's almost never a need to usually run it because most of that is done via existing memory APIs/toolkits which are game/engine-specific like SKSE. Only in games which have anti-hacking engines would it be necessary, but to be honest, if a company is going that far, it's usually for good reason and not worth tampering with. The line between single-player and multiplayer is really blurred these days, too. Hacking DS3 offline is still cheating even if you never intend on interacting with another player.

 

Again, I'm going to just say this is industry standard and what every user agreed to in the TOS and PP. It's akin to trying to get citizenship in a country while showing off video footage of you doing horrible things by your target-country's standards in your homeland that are legal there but not where you're moving to. It's negligent and does not show an understanding of the matters at hand and carries absolute merit when making a rejection.

 

This is also testimony of people anonymously over the internet and quite honestly, I suspect the 1500 number is lower than the number of actual hackers out there in-game. I've dealt with people as a game support worker and community admin: A huge majority of cheaters fight tooth and nail to make claims about being in the right despite an overabundance of proof they were hacking. I'm not saying "guilty until proven innocent," here, but the collateral of a few very misguided people and getting them to learn a lesson is generally worth it in the interest of the greater community and game company. Having players be informed of the activities ANet performs which they agreed to in the ToS is never a negative and saves future headaches via example.

 

I'm probably one of the last people to defend ANet's maintenance of their game as far as development goes and have tons of criticism of how these boards are managed, but honestly, this is the approach that is required.

 

 

[Vulcaruss.9567]

Whats more, where was this list before hand? Gaile? Good Job you banned people and released what the cause was AFTER you suspended them... talk about surprises that could of been preventable.

[zealex.9410]

> @"FrostDraco.8306" said:

> Arena net can ban my account, for cheating, when ive never cheated in any online game I have ever played, and put money into this game every month. In addition to the invasion of privacy they employed to do so. Bad balance, terrible forum moderators, and absolutely ignoring all the feedback they've ever been given.

>

> But win traders, fly hackers, and speed hackers can run rampant for months, and never receive a single ban from arena net. That goes to show what this company thinks of honest customers. Even if the ban is overturned, I wont be returning to Guild Wars 2. Arena net doesn't know how to run a game properly. They should take some lessons from Digital extremes.

 

Yeah anet should definitely sue 17 yos and attempt to drag them to court for just when it could have been resolved much more peacefully. Amd ofc have all that go public.