Account suspension discussion [merged]

[TexZero.7910]

> @"Sky Fell.7604" said:

> > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > > > > Well over on reddit a user has figured out that Anet installed spyware in an update on 3/6/18 then removed it on 3/27/18. This spyware pretty much looked at EVERY process you had running then sent it back to Anet servers.

> > > > >

> > > > > So if you have software they deem bad while playing GW2 boom suspended.

> > > > >

> > > > > This is a HUGE invasion of privacy and we consumers need an IMMEDIATE answer in light of the recent Facebook scandal.

> > > > >

> > > > > My personal information was breached and the trust I have for Anet has been destroyed.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm not posting the link to thread and I'm sure I'll get banned off these forums for this.....but this needs to be said

> > > >

> > > > Not even remotely an invasion of privacy.

> > > > You agreed to it the moment you created an account. SOURCE (https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/arenanet-privacy-policy/ see. Non-personal Information | also see https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/ Section 7D)

> > > >

> > > > Don't like it ?

> > > >

> > > > Submit a request to have your account deleted.

> > > >

> > > > Ignorance of the terms, is not a valid complaint or criticism once you have been caught with your pants down.

> > >

> > > Monitoring and installing spyware which can also be used to backdoor your securities by 3rd parties is vastly different. I think you need to take a long hard look at your rights and what these companies are doing.

> > >

> > > I'll be here when you figure it out

> >

> > I think it's cute that you actually believe they used spyware when they can quite easily do what they did without it.

> > But keep believing everything you read on reddit.

> >

> > I'll be here when you figure out what Anet actually did, because its a lot simpler than installing spyware.

>

> "Spyware is software that aims to gather information about a person or organization without their knowledge, that may send such information to another entity without the consumer's consent, or that asserts control over a device without the consumer's knowledge"

>

> Thats from wikipedia.

>

> Unless I'm mistaken, I don't recall this being in the changelog, so yes it was spyware

 

And even by that definition it's not spyware. You gave consent and if you read you user agreements you'd have proper knowledge that the company can at any time collect any data on your machine including processes. It's literally there clear as day

ArenaNet HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO MONITOR OPERATION OF ANY SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME AT ANY TIME AND IN ANY MATTER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8© or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS. YOU ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT AS A RESULT OF SUCH MONITORING ArenaNet MAY IN ITS REASONABLE DISCRETION TAKE ANY ACTION, OR NO ACTION WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO:

CHANGING ANY PORTION OF THE SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME;

SEEKING RECOURSE AGAINST YOU BY WAY OF ANY PROCEEDING ARENANET DEEMS APPROPRIATE UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES; AND/OR

DETERMINING THAT YOU ARE NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL PROVISIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AND TERMINATING YOUR ACCOUNT UNDER SECTION 3(b). ARENANET HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO PROVIDE YOU WITH NOTICE BEFORE SUCH TERMINATION.

 

 

[TexZero.7910]

> @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > You agreed to them being able to do this, without cause at any point the so choose.

> >

> > Don't like it ?

> > Contact support and ask for your account to be terminated.

> >

> > Else, read the User Agreement and Deal with it.

>

> No we did not agree to have spyware installed onto our computers putting our finances at risk without our knowledge.

>

> This is the same kitten Zuckberg is testifying about in Congress. If the government smacks FB you best bet I'll be contacting my state representative in regards to this breach by Anet.

 

Yes, you did.

 

Sincerely section 7 D

ArenaNet HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO MONITOR OPERATION OF ANY SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME AT ANY TIME AND IN ANY MATTER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8© or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS. YOU ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT AS A RESULT OF SUCH MONITORING ArenaNet MAY IN ITS REASONABLE DISCRETION TAKE ANY ACTION, OR NO ACTION WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO:

CHANGING ANY PORTION OF THE SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME;

SEEKING RECOURSE AGAINST YOU BY WAY OF ANY PROCEEDING ARENANET DEEMS APPROPRIATE UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES; AND/OR

DETERMINING THAT YOU ARE NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL PROVISIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AND TERMINATING YOUR ACCOUNT UNDER SECTION 3(b). ARENANET HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO PROVIDE YOU WITH NOTICE BEFORE SUCH TERMINATION.

[Jinks.2057]

> @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > > @"Sky Fell.7604" said:

> > > > > @"Rhapsedy.1569" said:

> > > > > > @"Sky Fell.7604" said:

> > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > > > > @"Healix.5819" **Wrong. I don't know much about CheatEngine.** So I checked with various videos on YouTube. Sure enough, you can find them using the program to cheat in the game. Not going to spell it out or link those videos given their nature, but anyone who doubts it can look for themselves.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You're not a developer or programmer. I wouldn't expect you to, and that's 100% fine. I can totally see WHY you're making this assumption, but that doesn't make you any less misled.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Yes, cheat engine is used for cheating. In TONS of games.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Its also used for modding.

> > > > > > Debugging.

> > > > > > Reading actively used memory.

> > > > > > Its great for loading in a virtual machine and pulling apart a virus to see how it works.

> > > > >

> > > > > Why do you need to Mod GW2? Is that not cheating?

> > > > > Why would you need to debug GW2? Is that not for the developers?

> > > > > Reading actively used memory. - This is taken directly from CheatEngines website - It comes with a memory scanner to quickly scan for variables used within a game and allow you to change them.

> > > > > Why do you need to pull apart GW2's coding? To learn how to hack it better?

> > > > >

> > > > > I could, but I will not, post videos of other players using CheatEngine in GW2. If you had it on your computer, running "In the background", too bad. You made a mistake and got caught. You were sent home to think about what you have done. See you in 6 months.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > You're either misunderstanding me or being intentionally obtuse.

> > > > Those things I listed are OTHER uses, not pertaining to GW2.

> > > > Sorry if I didn't make that obvious.

> > >

> > > I dunno, again, people more knowledgeable than average should know better than letting programs that deal with memory run while playing an online game. I would not even run texmod next to gw2.

> > > Not saying that they couldn't have done it better, but to me it's a little funny that the people here trying to sound as they know what they're talking about really well also happen to lack what I consider to be common sense.

> >

> > You can run a program to cheat on a single player game or software you use for your job and get this suspension.

> >

> > Anet ALWAYS bans with false positives with EVERY ban wave. This time they installed spyware onto your computer, compromised your privacy, and compromised your computer's security. They have your Credit Card information linked to your account and created a back door without your knowledge or care if they screwed up your financial security.

> >

> > And people are white knight defending this

> >

> > kitten!!!

>

> ... you can know if a process is running without having to get to such extreme. It's really easy.

> You install their software on your computer, they can look at your processes without need to add an additional executable. To get cheaters out versus having them look at some processes? I choose to kick cheaters, anyday.

> And they've had your credit card information since your first gemstore purchase.

>

> Blowing things out of proportion, like the lootboxes drama.

 

That's not how they did it though. LOOK INTO IT and realize what they did was blatant disregard for peoples security.

 

If you refuse to actually see what they did then you should prolly stop posting about it

[Legit Prep In.5893]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"Sky Fell.7604" said:

> > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > > @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > > > > > Well over on reddit a user has figured out that Anet installed spyware in an update on 3/6/18 then removed it on 3/27/18. This spyware pretty much looked at EVERY process you had running then sent it back to Anet servers.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So if you have software they deem bad while playing GW2 boom suspended.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is a HUGE invasion of privacy and we consumers need an IMMEDIATE answer in light of the recent Facebook scandal.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > My personal information was breached and the trust I have for Anet has been destroyed.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I'm not posting the link to thread and I'm sure I'll get banned off these forums for this.....but this needs to be said

> > > > >

> > > > > Not even remotely an invasion of privacy.

> > > > > You agreed to it the moment you created an account. SOURCE (https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/arenanet-privacy-policy/ see. Non-personal Information | also see https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/ Section 7D)

> > > > >

> > > > > Don't like it ?

> > > > >

> > > > > Submit a request to have your account deleted.

> > > > >

> > > > > Ignorance of the terms, is not a valid complaint or criticism once you have been caught with your pants down.

> > > >

> > > > Monitoring and installing spyware which can also be used to backdoor your securities by 3rd parties is vastly different. I think you need to take a long hard look at your rights and what these companies are doing.

> > > >

> > > > I'll be here when you figure it out

> > >

> > > I think it's cute that you actually believe they used spyware when they can quite easily do what they did without it.

> > > But keep believing everything you read on reddit.

> > >

> > > I'll be here when you figure out what Anet actually did, because its a lot simpler than installing spyware.

> >

> > "Spyware is software that aims to gather information about a person or organization without their knowledge, that may send such information to another entity without the consumer's consent, or that asserts control over a device without the consumer's knowledge"

> >

> > Thats from wikipedia.

> >

> > Unless I'm mistaken, I don't recall this being in the changelog, so yes it was spyware

>

> And even by that definition it's not spyware. You gave consent and if you read you user agreements you'd have proper knowledge that the company can at any time collect any data on your machine including processes. It's literally there clear as day

>

ArenaNet HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO MONITOR OPERATION OF ANY SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME AT ANY TIME AND IN ANY MATTER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8© or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS. YOU ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT AS A RESULT OF SUCH MONITORING ArenaNet MAY IN ITS REASONABLE DISCRETION TAKE ANY ACTION, OR NO ACTION WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO:

> CHANGING ANY PORTION OF THE SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME;

> SEEKING RECOURSE AGAINST YOU BY WAY OF ANY PROCEEDING ARENANET DEEMS APPROPRIATE UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES; AND/OR

> DETERMINING THAT YOU ARE NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL PROVISIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AND TERMINATING YOUR ACCOUNT UNDER SECTION 3(b). ARENANET HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO PROVIDE YOU WITH NOTICE BEFORE SUCH TERMINATION.

>

>

>

 

And their TOS or EULA doesn't matter in EU / Germany unless you are able to read that wall of text before you buy the product, which is not the case.

[TexZero.7910]

> @"Legit Prep In.5893" said:

> And their TOS or EULA doesn't matter in EU / Germany unless you are able to read that wall of text before you buy the product, which is not the case.

 

You can (https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/) and it matters everywhere. Just sayin'

It's a legally binding agreement between you and the company to access the utilize the license.

[Legit Prep In.5893]

Just because some company (anet) writes some text into an enforced agreement without you are not allowed to play the game you purchased before being able to read all that nonesense, doesn't make it legal.

 

Next time you may wanna turn over the cup at starbucks before you trink it, it may contain a "YOU CONSENT TO EXPERIMENTAL TESTINGS OF CHECMICALS IN WHATEVER YOU CONSUME HERE" , does that sound legal ?

[Yasi.9065]

> @"misterman.1530" said:

> > @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> > > Hello,

> > >

> > > I wanted to be sure that folks who are following or participating in this thread are aware that we've provided a lot of additional information this evening in [this post](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/476255/#Comment_476255 "this thread"). I hope that in reading that update, you'll find your questions are answered.

> >

> > This is a disgrace. You just admitted to:

> >

> > a) snooping around on my computer, gathering AND SENDING data to your own servers to do who knows what with

> > b) suspending people for having a program running in the background and NOT having other evidence of them ACTUALLY cheating in gw2

> > c) being unable to stop hackers without using such underhanded methods.

> >

> > No, Ive not been suspended. Thankfully due to security risks I have to do my debugging work on a separate computer.

>

> Steam does it. WoW does it. Many other MMOs and MOBAs do it. Not sure if this is any different. What's happening now is you are taking one person's word that it was sending data back to Anet. One person's. That's what, in the TrumpWorld we live in, we'd call Fake News.

>

 

See, the thing is... I dont use steam, I dont play WoW, actually atm I dont play any other MMO or moba. I got a refund from EA because they didnt tell me beforehand that they would install something similar with a game I bought from them. I dont own or play any EA games anymore because of this. Do you even realize how much private data this kind of polling can gather?

 

Also... you might live in a TrumpWorld, I for one... luckily... do not.

[Deihnyx.6318]

> @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > > > @"Sky Fell.7604" said:

> > > > > > @"Rhapsedy.1569" said:

> > > > > > > @"Sky Fell.7604" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Healix.5819" **Wrong. I don't know much about CheatEngine.** So I checked with various videos on YouTube. Sure enough, you can find them using the program to cheat in the game. Not going to spell it out or link those videos given their nature, but anyone who doubts it can look for themselves.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You're not a developer or programmer. I wouldn't expect you to, and that's 100% fine. I can totally see WHY you're making this assumption, but that doesn't make you any less misled.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Yes, cheat engine is used for cheating. In TONS of games.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Its also used for modding.

> > > > > > > Debugging.

> > > > > > > Reading actively used memory.

> > > > > > > Its great for loading in a virtual machine and pulling apart a virus to see how it works.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why do you need to Mod GW2? Is that not cheating?

> > > > > > Why would you need to debug GW2? Is that not for the developers?

> > > > > > Reading actively used memory. - This is taken directly from CheatEngines website - It comes with a memory scanner to quickly scan for variables used within a game and allow you to change them.

> > > > > > Why do you need to pull apart GW2's coding? To learn how to hack it better?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I could, but I will not, post videos of other players using CheatEngine in GW2. If you had it on your computer, running "In the background", too bad. You made a mistake and got caught. You were sent home to think about what you have done. See you in 6 months.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > You're either misunderstanding me or being intentionally obtuse.

> > > > > Those things I listed are OTHER uses, not pertaining to GW2.

> > > > > Sorry if I didn't make that obvious.

> > > >

> > > > I dunno, again, people more knowledgeable than average should know better than letting programs that deal with memory run while playing an online game. I would not even run texmod next to gw2.

> > > > Not saying that they couldn't have done it better, but to me it's a little funny that the people here trying to sound as they know what they're talking about really well also happen to lack what I consider to be common sense.

> > >

> > > You can run a program to cheat on a single player game or software you use for your job and get this suspension.

> > >

> > > Anet ALWAYS bans with false positives with EVERY ban wave. This time they installed spyware onto your computer, compromised your privacy, and compromised your computer's security. They have your Credit Card information linked to your account and created a back door without your knowledge or care if they screwed up your financial security.

> > >

> > > And people are white knight defending this

> > >

> > > kitten!!!

> >

> > ... you can know if a process is running without having to get to such extreme. It's really easy.

> > You install their software on your computer, they can look at your processes without need to add an additional executable. To get cheaters out versus having them look at some processes? I choose to kick cheaters, anyday.

> > And they've had your credit card information since your first gemstore purchase.

> >

> > Blowing things out of proportion, like the lootboxes drama.

>

> That's not how they did it though. LOOK INTO IT and realize what they did was blatant disregard for peoples security.

>

> If you refuse to actually see what they did then you should prolly stop posting about it

 

Thanksfully that isn't how a forum works.

Oh gosh, they know what processes i'm running, oh noes.

 

On what OS does the game run... again? :)

[TexZero.7910]

> @"Legit Prep In.5893" said:

> Just because some company (anet) writes some text into an enforced agreement without you are not allowed to play the game you purchased before being able to read all that nonesense, doesn't make it legal.

>

> Next time you may wanna turn over the cup at starbucks before you trink it, it may contain a "YOU CONSENT TO EXPERIMENTAL TESTINGS OF CHECMICALS IN WHATEVER YOU CONSUME HERE" , does that sound legal ?

 

That depends did you or did you not consent to using that specific cup.

 

The difference between your half baked analogy is you actually have to accept the terms of service before you can play. The onus is on you to do so, clearly several of you did not or even more simply put did not care even if you did.

[TexZero.7910]

> @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> Thanksfully that isn't how a forum works.

> Oh gosh, they know what processes i'm running, oh noes.

>

> On what OS does the game run... again? :)

 

This...but too many people jumping through hoops trying to say anet put spyware on their machines when every OS has a very simple function to report processes.

[Jinks.2057]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > You agreed to them being able to do this, without cause at any point the so choose.

> > >

> > > Don't like it ?

> > > Contact support and ask for your account to be terminated.

> > >

> > > Else, read the User Agreement and Deal with it.

> >

> > No we did not agree to have spyware installed onto our computers putting our finances at risk without our knowledge.

> >

> > This is the same kitten Zuckberg is testifying about in Congress. If the government smacks FB you best bet I'll be contacting my state representative in regards to this breach by Anet.

>

> Yes, you did.

>

> Sincerely section 7 D

>

ArenaNet HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO MONITOR OPERATION OF ANY SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME AT ANY TIME AND IN ANY MATTER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8© or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS. YOU ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT AS A RESULT OF SUCH MONITORING ArenaNet MAY IN ITS REASONABLE DISCRETION TAKE ANY ACTION, OR NO ACTION WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO:

> CHANGING ANY PORTION OF THE SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME;

> SEEKING RECOURSE AGAINST YOU BY WAY OF ANY PROCEEDING ARENANET DEEMS APPROPRIATE UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES; AND/OR

> DETERMINING THAT YOU ARE NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL PROVISIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AND TERMINATING YOUR ACCOUNT UNDER SECTION 3(b). ARENANET HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO PROVIDE YOU WITH NOTICE BEFORE SUCH TERMINATION.

>

 

Won't hold in court.

[MashMash.1645]

> @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > @"Sky Fell.7604" said:

> > It's a name. It would be the same program if it was called Disassembler Engine.

>

> But it's not called that. It's called Cheat Engine. Its name pretty much tells and sells what it's meant to do. Besides, if players had stopped their cheating programs properly, they wouldn't have gotten suspended. Too bad they didn't.

>

> See how that works?

 

So people should be banned for _not actually hacking_, but just for having the software running on their machine and that they _might_ or _could_ hack?

 

That's some weird logic.

[Deihnyx.6318]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > Thanksfully that isn't how a forum works.

> > Oh gosh, they know what processes i'm running, oh noes.

> >

> > On what OS does the game run... again? :)

>

> This...but too many people jumping through hoops trying to say anet put spyware on their machines when every OS has a very simple function to report processes.

 

And any program they install could do that too through an update. It's a few lines of codes to enumerate processes. I doubt everyone check all their softwares everytime they get updated.

I'm not saying it's great, but this is definitely not facebook level of drama. We can just hope they take feedbacks into consideration moving forward.

[TexZero.7910]

> @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > > You agreed to them being able to do this, without cause at any point the so choose.

> > > >

> > > > Don't like it ?

> > > > Contact support and ask for your account to be terminated.

> > > >

> > > > Else, read the User Agreement and Deal with it.

> > >

> > > No we did not agree to have spyware installed onto our computers putting our finances at risk without our knowledge.

> > >

> > > This is the same kitten Zuckberg is testifying about in Congress. If the government smacks FB you best bet I'll be contacting my state representative in regards to this breach by Anet.

> >

> > Yes, you did.

> >

> > Sincerely section 7 D

> >

ArenaNet HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO MONITOR OPERATION OF ANY SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME AT ANY TIME AND IN ANY MATTER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8© or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS. YOU ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT AS A RESULT OF SUCH MONITORING ArenaNet MAY IN ITS REASONABLE DISCRETION TAKE ANY ACTION, OR NO ACTION WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO:

> > CHANGING ANY PORTION OF THE SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME;

> > SEEKING RECOURSE AGAINST YOU BY WAY OF ANY PROCEEDING ARENANET DEEMS APPROPRIATE UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES; AND/OR

> > DETERMINING THAT YOU ARE NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL PROVISIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AND TERMINATING YOUR ACCOUNT UNDER SECTION 3(b). ARENANET HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO PROVIDE YOU WITH NOTICE BEFORE SUCH TERMINATION.

> >

>

> Won't hold in court.

 

If anyone even remotely takes it there, it most certainly will.

 

But it's okay, i'll wait for the documentations from the 1500 person class action suit. /s

[usnedward.9023]

> @"Vault Girl.6792" said:

> > @"usnedward.9023" said:

> > > @"Vault Girl.6792" said:

> > > > @"usnedward.9023" said:

> > > > You use cheat engine to cheat in "some" games but not GW2. No way to prove it in your case or others. It's running and ANET erred on the side of caution. Enjoy your ban.

> > >

> > > And some people are sending gold to their friends, and there is no way to prove that they are not selling it. However, Anet usually doesn't ban them. But in this case they just banned a lot of users who didn't even modify anything in the game.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Not quite a comparison. NOW if they had chat logs that said hey Fred I'll give you 30 dollars for 500 gold then that is another story. Bad comparison. Just bad

>

> And if they don't have these logs? I usually discuss things like that with my friends not in the game. And still, Anet correctly assumes that it's not gold selling, because they can't prove it is.

> It's not possible (or very hard) to prove that someone is not guilty, it's only possible to prove otherwise. And that's what should be proved if you want to ban someone for 6 months.

 

It's thier game. You agreed to certain terms that have been posted in this thread and you still have no case according to ANET. Admitting it in this thread "Yeah I have this program and only cheat in certain games...." Yeah...i cast doubt on that. I was only going to use the hack I used against other WvW players who were obviously hacking. Then only to run this far at a certain speed. Then only to get that certain POI and it snowballed. I am not saying you cheated or not but I can tell you my first cheat in MMOs was here, recently and as addictive as it became I call bull bleep that someone cheats in one game and not another when the tool is there. Sorry. Just my opinion.

[Sojourner.4621]

> @"Veryl.7861" said:

> to be honest I never witnessed hacking.

> Ofcourse back in GW1 there where rumors about hacks whenever there was a server rollback but can you be really sure?

> Ofcourse I would expect 8 monks bot if they walk the same way but isn't GW2 more stable?

> -There is no speed hack, GW2 becomes faster while you play more gaining experience.

> -Teleport thief is simply a lucky or foolish sword thief.

> -Macroes are not allowed however detectable with anti-hax from Anet - This only allows every player equality.

> - IF you are aware of hacking you tried hacking.

 

Three of the programs they banned for are a speed hack, a bot and a teleport hack... literally hacks that change what the relative position of your character is based on the world itself. I have directly witnessed and reported hacking, and yes I can be sure. Sometimes it's pretty obvious. Can't help it you play with blinders on. "If you are aware of hacking you tried hacking" That's a load of crap, it takes five minutes of research in to the programs they listed to find out what they actually do and how they work. Most of what you stated here is incorrect.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Kunzaito.8169" said:

> > A better analogy would be that you are attending an event that specifies no recording devices and the host covertly enters the homes of every attendee to determine if they own a camera.

>

> Nope. Setting aside that an analogy is meant to illuminate a situation in a general sense to aid in understanding, not fit every single aspect, this twisting still doesn't fit. Roughly you would have to say that "attending the event" is "playing GW2," and your presence is your whole PC. Your PC isn't your home, locked and physically miles away from your participation. Its components, functions, and belongings are inextricably linked with your use of the software.

>

>

 

Nope.

 

A player's computer is not on Anet's property.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"Legit Prep In.5893" said:

> > Just because some company (anet) writes some text into an enforced agreement without you are not allowed to play the game you purchased before being able to read all that nonesense, doesn't make it legal.

> >

> > Next time you may wanna turn over the cup at starbucks before you trink it, it may contain a "YOU CONSENT TO EXPERIMENTAL TESTINGS OF CHECMICALS IN WHATEVER YOU CONSUME HERE" , does that sound legal ?

>

> That depends did you or did you not consent to using that specific cup.

>

> The difference between your half baked analogy is you actually have to accept the terms of service before you can play. The onus is on you to do so, clearly several of you did not or even more simply put did not care even if you did.

 

So, if you fail to read 5000 pages of legalese and blindly click "accept", that fact alone justifies absolutely anything we want to put into those terms of service, right? Hey, look! Section 753-D, subsection P, paragraph 42 _clearly_ states that you agree to have your leg amputated (which leg to be determined by ANet) and a prosthetic installed that runs banner adds for Guild Wars 2!

 

Yeah, I'm sure that's how it works.

 

 

[Jinks.2057]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > > @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > > > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > > > You agreed to them being able to do this, without cause at any point the so choose.

> > > > >

> > > > > Don't like it ?

> > > > > Contact support and ask for your account to be terminated.

> > > > >

> > > > > Else, read the User Agreement and Deal with it.

> > > >

> > > > No we did not agree to have spyware installed onto our computers putting our finances at risk without our knowledge.

> > > >

> > > > This is the same kitten Zuckberg is testifying about in Congress. If the government smacks FB you best bet I'll be contacting my state representative in regards to this breach by Anet.

> > >

> > > Yes, you did.

> > >

> > > Sincerely section 7 D

> > >

ArenaNet HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO MONITOR OPERATION OF ANY SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME AT ANY TIME AND IN ANY MATTER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8© or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS. YOU ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT AS A RESULT OF SUCH MONITORING ArenaNet MAY IN ITS REASONABLE DISCRETION TAKE ANY ACTION, OR NO ACTION WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO:

> > > CHANGING ANY PORTION OF THE SERVICE, CONTENT OR GAME;

> > > SEEKING RECOURSE AGAINST YOU BY WAY OF ANY PROCEEDING ARENANET DEEMS APPROPRIATE UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES; AND/OR

> > > DETERMINING THAT YOU ARE NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL PROVISIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AND TERMINATING YOUR ACCOUNT UNDER SECTION 3(b). ARENANET HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NO OBLIGATION, TO PROVIDE YOU WITH NOTICE BEFORE SUCH TERMINATION.

> > >

> >

> > Won't hold in court.

>

> If anyone even remotely takes it there, it most certainly will.

>

> But it's okay, i'll wait for the documentations from the 1500 person class action suit. /s

 

Sony got rekt in courts

[Kunzaito.8169]

> @"Ashen.2907" said:

>

> Nope.

>

> A player's computer is not on Anet's property.

 

I misread your response initially, revising:

 

This is where you are trying to stretch the analogy too far. It's not going to fit every dimension of this situation physically and doesn't have to.

 

ANet can monitor your computer at any time for any reason while you use their software as per the terms you agreed to when you created an account - see the user referencing the EXACT section of that EULA above. Don't like it? Uninstall.

 

[Vault Girl.6792]

> @"usnedward.9023" said:

> > @"Vault Girl.6792" said:

> > > @"usnedward.9023" said:

> > > > @"Vault Girl.6792" said:

> > > > > @"usnedward.9023" said:

> > > > > You use cheat engine to cheat in "some" games but not GW2. No way to prove it in your case or others. It's running and ANET erred on the side of caution. Enjoy your ban.

> > > >

> > > > And some people are sending gold to their friends, and there is no way to prove that they are not selling it. However, Anet usually doesn't ban them. But in this case they just banned a lot of users who didn't even modify anything in the game.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Not quite a comparison. NOW if they had chat logs that said hey Fred I'll give you 30 dollars for 500 gold then that is another story. Bad comparison. Just bad

> >

> > And if they don't have these logs? I usually discuss things like that with my friends not in the game. And still, Anet correctly assumes that it's not gold selling, because they can't prove it is.

> > It's not possible (or very hard) to prove that someone is not guilty, it's only possible to prove otherwise. And that's what should be proved if you want to ban someone for 6 months.

>

> It's thier game. You agreed to certain terms that have been posted in this thread and you still have no case according to ANET. Admitting it in this thread "Yeah I have this program and only cheat in certain games...." Yeah...i cast doubt on that. I was only going to use the hack I used against other WvW players who were obviously hacking. Then only to run this far at a certain speed. Then only to get that certain POI and it snowballed. I am not saying you cheated or not but I can tell you my first cheat in MMOs was here, recently and as addictive as it became I call bull bleep that someone cheats in one game and not another when the tool is there. Sorry. Just my opinion.

 

I wasn't even aware that it is possible to cheat using Cheat Engine in an MMO game (since I believed all the important data was stored on the server) until I got banned for that. That's another reason I wasn't closing it before opening GW2, I thought it couldn't be used to cheat in GW2 anyway, so it's absolutely harmless. Well, now I know that it could.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

double post

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

> @"MashMash.1645" said:

>

> So people should be banned for _not actually hacking_, but just for having the software running on their machine and that they _might_ or _could_ hack?

>

> That's some weird logic.

 

You know what's really weird? People asking ANet to use more common sense and due diligence than they did themselves, and then coming to the forums to complain about it.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> Wait, can banned people still post on the forums?

 

Apparently. Given the nature of this thread, it might be a good idea to ban both.

[Sojourner.4621]

> @"Kunzaito.8169" said:

> > @"Sky Fell.7604" said:

> > Really my issue boils down to this:

> >

> > This was lazy and intrusive.

> >

> > The Lazy:

> > I'm sure 99% of the people banned deserved it.

> > There's the 1% though.

> > Anet's inability to do the due diligence of making sure the GW2 allocated memory and process were actually hooked into or modified makes the people who may have been incorrectly banned have no recourse.

> > That casts doubt on all of them for me. There's no way to tell if the people using that application were using it for something else because of this lazyness.

> >

> > The intrusive:

> > Most anti-cheats contain a small database of hashes locally on your PC.

> > They then compare the running applications to that list and also check if their own application is being modified.

> > They then send that data, usually encrypted, tot he servers.

> > Anet did not do that here.

> > They sent EVERYTHING running on your PC to their servers, encrypted in the equivalent of a wet paper bag handed to a vagrant.

> >

> >

> > I'm aggravated because i had faith in them. Because I KNOW they're capable of better.

>

> See, this is an extremely reasonable critical response.

>

> Personally, I don't know whether it's possible for them to make those kind of detections or not, or whether that type of monitoring would be considered more invasive. But I think it's a valid question, at least as they look to improve their methodology in the future. We *all* (well, most of us) want to see hackers and cheaters rooted out on a more regular basis. It's not wrong to ask how we can do this better and more efficiently going forward.

 

For three of the listed programs it is entirely unnecessary to do any further checks as they are hacks/cheats specific to, and only to, GW2. The final one on the list is an MMO botting program... it runs bots for FFXIV as well as GW2, but since botting is not actually allowed in either, I honestly don't reaaaally care if they weren't using it in GW2 technically, and think the bans are still justified even if it was for the "wrong" game. Cheat Engine, despite the name, does have many legitimate non-cheat uses, and so hook checks should have been done, additionally yes the hashes should have been checked locally and ONLY the hashes that matched should have been sent, encrypted, to ANet. That should and can be done better. Those are valid criticisms.