Account suspension discussion [merged]

[circuitnerd.5863]

This sort of thing keeps coming up time and time again. Here's the real issue. They have one person at Anet say something but then later another person will say something different. So Anet conflicts with itself. What they need is either the CEO or a special representative who makes the official calls for the entire company. Take a look at Overwatch. They have Jeff Kaplan who makes the call on all these things and presents it to the community. And if people have an issue Jeff Kaplan is the one that addresses it and gives an official statement. Rather than this person here, another person there, who all have different views on what's acceptable and what's not. And until they change the way they do things, they are going to continue to frustrate their player base. And pointing your finger at the user agreement only goes so far because it's very generalized.

[Nezekan.2671]

> @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > @"Nezekan.2671" said:

> > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > > @"Nezekan.2671" said:

> > > > You CANNOT justify an illegal action with legal jargon in your contract, at least that's not how it works in Germany and most European countries. Not sure about USA since I practice law in Germany. So what Anet says about it in their terms of service is absolutely irrelevant and void. If they are spying on me without my consent, they will have to compensate me. I have in fact seen this in other games and the developers had to compensate the players.

> > > >

> > > > I DID NOT cheat in gw2 in any shape or form, but I have modded and cheated in single player games. I have trainers and such in my pc as well as some tools that can change the coding of the game. But that is all my business and no one else's. Funnily enough I don't even do pvp that much and generally do one unranked daily for the daily bonuses.

> > > >

> > > > Spying is illegal, therefore you cannot justify it in any way in your terms of agreement and any clause related to that is null and void and if what they are saying about A.net is true, then I will consider taking this matter to the court. I have the advantage of not having to pay lawyer fees since I am one, I will juts hire a coding professional. If a coding professional is interested PM me.

> > > >

> > > > Arena Net should know by now that not every country has a horrendous justice system like the US does. You cannot get away with something like this in Germany. Companies have been fined million for much less.

> > >

> > > In Europe there are strict rules about data retention that serves to identify someone, like their name, addresses, etc. This isn't the case here.

> > > However you -did- give your consent about some data being exchanged, and the game monitoring your actions.

> > > It wasn't without your consent, or you just didn't read the ToS and that's on you.

> > >

> > > I'm sorry that some of you fall for the conspiracy tone that this reddit user used (oh well he got banned, that explains it...), but this is all pretty common stuff. Again, if you want total, paranoiac level of privacy, don't use windows. Don't install any software without checking the source code yourself, don't install any update either without previously checking it. Are you doing all of that?

> > >

> > > It's becoming increasingly annoying that every single thing happening on the internet is used as an excuse to jump at Anet's throat. There is no full privacy on the internet, especially not with windows, and no the govs don't give a kitten about your list of processes running.

> >

> > Its about taking an action based on the said data retention. Anti viruses are in fact the biggest viruses themselves, they know the up and down of your PC and the biggest hacks of all time have happened with hacking the antivirus servers. Mcafee has been used to hack entire governments for example.

> >

> > Either way, its about the action they take, not the spying itself. Antiviruses are spying on us 24/7 but they are not doing anything else. This is more or less the same. ANET can spy on me all they want, but it must be confidential and they should have damning evidence of someone using hacks on their game, not just on their PC.

> >

> > As for the refund, I'm not stupid. I'm not going to spend more than the amount I paid the game just to get a refund, unless more players show interest and its worth it financially. Lawyer fees are not the only money you have to pay you know.

>

> I don't get the logic. You said it was illegal, yet you said they can spy on you as much as they want.

> Seems to me that the problem is the way they gathered the data, which leaves some people who didn't do anything "wrong" banned.

>

> That's one part of the issue being debated right now, and there's certainly some good points being made, but then it's not about the data collection being "illegal".

 

I think my wording might have been wrong, sorry about that. I don't speak that much English nowadays.

 

Scanning for process has been going on for many years now, although companies like Steam are more careful in Europe than they are in the US for the reason you mentioned. We are much more strict about privacy. But as long as its very confidential and no action is taken based on that, its generally fine for the purposes of making the service better. This is not making the service better, its quite the opposite. They are terminating your access to the game based on the info they have gathered and without sufficient proof.

 

Are there people who actually cheated among those who have been banned? Definitely, this is not even up for debate. But I think there have been false positives too. I have not tampered or modified the game files in any shape or form and a friend of mine has been banned as well. When it comes to computers he is newbie and he is currently sleeping. I'm waiting to see if by chance he somehow had hacking tool on his PC. Maybe installed by someone else who uses the same PC. I seriously doubt he has the capacity to hack or use hacks at all, specially in a game like GW2.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

People are confusing several distinct issues:

* Is ANet's decision to install monitoring software unprecedented or unusual?

* Is it a violation of any local laws?

* _Should_ ANet do this to investigate the use of cheatware that is otherwise nearly impossible to detect?

* Does ANet have the right to suspend an account simply for running a cheat program while GW2 is active?

* _Should_ ANet do so?

* What penalties are appropriate based on this level of violation?

* What penalties are effective in reducing cheating?

 

****

 

**Is ANet's decision to install monitoring software unprecedented or unusual?**

Short answer: no. They use a Windows API, similar to what Steam and other entities use.

 

**Is it a violation of any local laws?**

Short answer: probably not. Software distributors have pretty broad authority to install all sorts of nonsense on our machines when we accept their user agreements. That's why some shareware sites include all sorts of bloatware: because they can.

 

**_Should_ ANet do this to investigate the use of cheatware that is otherwise nearly impossible to detect?**

That's a moral question, not one of fact. Each of us will have our own thoughts on the matter.

From a business point of view: of course they should do something, because it interferes with the rest of the community (remember all the posts that people were making showing how easy it was to get away with cheating?)

 

But from a customer point of view, it feels icky. They did it seemingly behind our backs. Of course, had they warned us first, it's possible that cheaters would have had time to figure out how to hide their tracks, although it's also possible that some would have chosen to stop cheating had they but known what was coming.

 

**Does ANet have the right to suspend an account simply for running a cheat program while GW2 is active?**

Absolutely. It's their game servers; they can refuse service to anyone for just about any reason. How often the choose to do so is a business decision.

In particular, they don't need proof that you used the software to cheat. They don't even necessarily need to see that you are using it often while GW2 is running. In effect, it's like saying that you might be allowed to own lockpicking tools, you might be allowed to carry them. But if you're caught with them at the locker room at your local gym, don't be surprised if the gym decides to suspend your access to their facilities.

 

**_Should_ ANet do so?**

Again, that's a moral question. Or perhaps a business question. It's not a factual question.

It's obviously extremely difficult to catch cheats in the act, unless they are regularly and blatantly doing so. Things like doing gear checks or boosting speed ever so slightly are hard to detect unless you are watching the person via webcam. Where should ANet draw the line?

 

I'm sure there are a bunch of people who use cheatware just for single player games and never for MMOs. But why should ANet be forced to distinguish?

 

On the other hand, again, if people knew this would be an issue, they might have chosen to change their behavior sooner.

 

**What penalties are appropriate based on this level of violation?**

This is more art than science. Reasonable people will differ in how they think they should respond. Those that posted the infamous Hacker vids called for harsh bans; those that might peak under a stack while playing solitaire would probably urge to limit things to "just a warning."

 

**What penalties are effective in reducing cheating?**

There's a lot of data around this one. Turns out, banning is ineffective: people who buy new accounts feel more motivated to cheat (because they have to catch up to where they were) or some feel like they want to punish the studio for being unreasonable. It ends up making things worse.

 

Likewise, apparently it turns out that warning people only works for a small fraction. It's super effective for people who never cheat: they become afraid to use any 3rd party software (even the stuff that ANet explicitly greenlit), but for people who cheat sometimes, it just makes them work harder to avoid getting caught.

 

[Nezekan.2671]

The ramifications of this are even bigger than you think.

 

Account sharing cannot be justified, we all get it. But what about computer sharing? Its a very common practice and this sort of action targets those people with prejudice.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

Just to put it out there, for those that feel 'violated' or words that effect, you can always quit playing and/or paying ANet money via the gemstore, and uninstall the game. I felt that way about a certain other MMO whom I thought made some choice decisions, and I left. That's the strongest way you can voice your opposition against this 'unjust' violation of your privacy.

 

That said . . . good luck with your new MMO of choice.

[Deihnyx.6318]

> @"Nezekan.2671" said:

> > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > @"Nezekan.2671" said:

> > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > > > @"Nezekan.2671" said:

> > > > > You CANNOT justify an illegal action with legal jargon in your contract, at least that's not how it works in Germany and most European countries. Not sure about USA since I practice law in Germany. So what Anet says about it in their terms of service is absolutely irrelevant and void. If they are spying on me without my consent, they will have to compensate me. I have in fact seen this in other games and the developers had to compensate the players.

> > > > >

> > > > > I DID NOT cheat in gw2 in any shape or form, but I have modded and cheated in single player games. I have trainers and such in my pc as well as some tools that can change the coding of the game. But that is all my business and no one else's. Funnily enough I don't even do pvp that much and generally do one unranked daily for the daily bonuses.

> > > > >

> > > > > Spying is illegal, therefore you cannot justify it in any way in your terms of agreement and any clause related to that is null and void and if what they are saying about A.net is true, then I will consider taking this matter to the court. I have the advantage of not having to pay lawyer fees since I am one, I will juts hire a coding professional. If a coding professional is interested PM me.

> > > > >

> > > > > Arena Net should know by now that not every country has a horrendous justice system like the US does. You cannot get away with something like this in Germany. Companies have been fined million for much less.

> > > >

> > > > In Europe there are strict rules about data retention that serves to identify someone, like their name, addresses, etc. This isn't the case here.

> > > > However you -did- give your consent about some data being exchanged, and the game monitoring your actions.

> > > > It wasn't without your consent, or you just didn't read the ToS and that's on you.

> > > >

> > > > I'm sorry that some of you fall for the conspiracy tone that this reddit user used (oh well he got banned, that explains it...), but this is all pretty common stuff. Again, if you want total, paranoiac level of privacy, don't use windows. Don't install any software without checking the source code yourself, don't install any update either without previously checking it. Are you doing all of that?

> > > >

> > > > It's becoming increasingly annoying that every single thing happening on the internet is used as an excuse to jump at Anet's throat. There is no full privacy on the internet, especially not with windows, and no the govs don't give a kitten about your list of processes running.

> > >

> > > Its about taking an action based on the said data retention. Anti viruses are in fact the biggest viruses themselves, they know the up and down of your PC and the biggest hacks of all time have happened with hacking the antivirus servers. Mcafee has been used to hack entire governments for example.

> > >

> > > Either way, its about the action they take, not the spying itself. Antiviruses are spying on us 24/7 but they are not doing anything else. This is more or less the same. ANET can spy on me all they want, but it must be confidential and they should have damning evidence of someone using hacks on their game, not just on their PC.

> > >

> > > As for the refund, I'm not stupid. I'm not going to spend more than the amount I paid the game just to get a refund, unless more players show interest and its worth it financially. Lawyer fees are not the only money you have to pay you know.

> >

> > I don't get the logic. You said it was illegal, yet you said they can spy on you as much as they want.

> > Seems to me that the problem is the way they gathered the data, which leaves some people who didn't do anything "wrong" banned.

> >

> > That's one part of the issue being debated right now, and there's certainly some good points being made, but then it's not about the data collection being "illegal".

>

> I think my wording might have been wrong, sorry about that. I don't speak that much English nowadays.

>

> Scanning for process has been going on for many years now, although companies like Steam are more careful in Europe than they are in the US for the reason you mentioned. We are much more strict about privacy. But as long as its very confidential and no action is taken based on that, its generally fine for the purposes of making the service better. This is not making the service better, its quite the opposite. They are terminating your access to the game based on the info they have gathered and without sufficient proof.

>

> Are there people who actually cheated among those who have been banned? Definitely, this is not even up for debate. But I think there have been false positives too. I have not tampered or modified the game files in any shape or form and a friend of mine has been banned as well. When it comes to computers he is newbie and he is currently sleeping. I'm waiting to see if by chance he somehow had hacking tool on his PC. Maybe installed by someone else who uses the same PC. I seriously doubt he has the capacity to hack or use hacks at all, specially in a game like GW2.

 

I'm originating from France, and I think it's pretty similar to Germany. And I'm pretty sure that what they're really picky about is any confidential data that serves to identify someone. Also if you keep any private data (with real address, name etc), you have to let a special entity (CNIL in France) know about it.

Also, to me, the purpose is to make the service better, as it gets rids of cheaters that were plaguing pvp and wvw (even some commanders i've heard...).

Now I understand that there are most probably false positive, that the tracking must be improved, and that they should probably unban people that were wrongly banned (note: should, they don't have to), but there's like 2 discussions going on on this thread. One is constructive (criticizing the poor methods of "proof" that causes false positive) and the "spyware/legal argument" which in my opinion is horse kitten.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > @"Vulcaruss.9567" said:

> > Finally I can talk... The length of going to making a new account and purchasing it is irritating at best. ANYWAY. I've been watching this, and to those of you saying Anet is always right, what little world do you live in?... False Positives happen false Bans/Suspensions happen. Now on to my Issue. I will admit I've used a 3rd party program, which do you ask? ArcDPS? No I'm vehemently against DPS meters in this game and think they shouldn't be allowed at all. TACO? Never heard of it till now, don't plan on using it. First before I say, to clarify I'm a Pre-Releaser, Beta-Weekend Player, Collectors Edition Owner. over 6k hours almost 11k AP, Kind of low yes but I'm lazy... I've never once had a reason to exploit or cheat in this game.

> >

> > When did I last do SPvP? Month or two ago I played one unranked match with a couple of guildies. When was the last time I played WvW? A month or two ago cause I'm forced to grind the place should I desire a legendary for the gift of battle, Short answer, I hate the PvP and Competitiveness of the modes although I will admit I like to duel in my guild hall, I'm a PvE'er, There is no fun or satisfaction in cheating an AI. Now with that cleared up, the 3rd party software i used is called..... RESHADE, Yes the mod that lets you beautify your game making it look less bleached and washed out. Oh I'm such a criminal aren't I? I deserved to get banned right? Just like all you idiots are preaching about the suspensions.... By Balthazars burning buttox people...

> >

> > Now of all the things I've seen one thing hasn't come up... has anyone even considered Steam? Or maybe Discord? They Inject 3rd party Overlays into the game right? Oh guess what that could be another harmless false positive offense too! Oh boy isn't Anet such good little hacker hunters? I have my game linked into steam, I even have a custom Steamcontroller profile for the game, granted I barely use it cause it's a tad awkward to use... but it's fun to play around with. But who knows! The steam controller macros/keybinds could be throwing a false positive, Oh no! Anet is banning/suspending people for using 3rd Party controllers, whats next? Razer? Logitech? I use the Logitech Gaming Software, G13 Gamepad, and G600 MMO mouse, who's to say they aren't catching that either!? With the utter vagueness and broad swing of these Suspensions with no clear statement on what Arena Net is hunting for, this is a clear over reach.

> >

> > The sheer fact I received no Email notification on this either baffles me. You proud Ban wave supporters can say what you want, but is a guy like me really what you want targeted? A Harmless individual who never PvP's or WvW's in the competitive sense who just likes to Duel sometimes with his friends, and loves the PvE content? Quite the shameful display.. on both you and Arena Nets lack of communication.... but hey I can't say I'm surprised either. Good Job Anet, I hope to see a response on my ticket... sooner or later.... If not well, I guess after 6 months you'll lose a veteran who's been here since 2007 and sunk countless amounts of money and gems into this game.... But hey who am I kidding, The Ban Wave Supporters will just claim on lying and a butt hurt hacker. Oh isn't internet life fun? have fun Kiddo's and Adults alike!

>

> I admire your wall'o'text honesty.. but if your using those nice little tools that come with things like the Logitech gaming mouse/keyboard gaming software for macro purposes whether its competitive pvp type gameplay or not.. your still gunna get flagged and that is not a false positive when your using macro's that are not allowed, pure and simple. No idea what the steam controller macros are as i dont use steam but it sounds just as risky to me.

> I too use the G600 and a Logitech gaming keyboard but wouldn't even risk using their respective macro capabilities because . ya know.. macros are not allowed except for music making purposes, which it appears yours was not or you might of mentioned it.

>

> So while I do not at all think your lying I do think you might of been your own worst enemy.

> As for ANET making any kind of statement as to what they are looking for, other than saying ToS over and over why would they give you detail like that, it just opens the door for the hacksters to immediately look at ways to counter ANETS detection methods even quicker than they will anyway.

 

I call bull shit.

 

A fancy mouse and keyboard are not third party programs.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Scrivs.4501" said:

> > @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > So, if you fail to read 5000 pages of legalese and blindly click "accept", that fact alone justifies absolutely anything we want to put into those terms of service, right? Hey, look! Section 753-D, subsection P, paragraph 42 _clearly_ states that you agree to have your leg amputated (which leg to be determined by ANet) and a prosthetic installed that runs banner adds for Guild Wars 2!

> >

> > Yeah, I'm sure that's how it works.

> >

>

> That is exactly how it works. If **you fail** to read something and just blindly agree to it, which then happens to yield negative results for you, then whose fault is that? You don't put your signature on a contract without reading the contract first, do you?

> You were given the opportunity to voluntarily decline the agreement and thereby prevent any negative consequences from happening to your person. But you didn't. You chose to blindly agree and accept out of sheer laziness (not wanting to read the user agreement first) and for sheer personal gain (just wanting to use the product no matter what consequences it may have).

>

> This reminds me of PokemonGo players being angry about the app collecting and using their GPS locations, while they explicitly gave the app THEIR PERMISSION to gain access to their GPS location.

>

> Or Facebook users being angry about the company collecting and using their photos, GPS location, audio recordings etc. etc., while they explicitly gave the app THEIR PERMISSION to access their photos, camera, microphone, GPS location and all the rest of it.

>

> You can't first permit someone to do something bad to you just so that you can use their product, and then whine and complain about them having done something bad to you.

>

> So in the case of your example, if you choose to EXPLICITLY AGREE TO, and ACCEPT to have your leg amputated in order to be able to play a video game, then what do you think is going to happen?

>

> Stop being so immature and take reponsibility for your actions. Think about what you're doing.

 

Nothing you're saying here is in any way pertinent to the question of whether or not this is legal. That's all that matters here. If a company breaks the law, the fact that they told you they were going to do it via ToS does not absolve them of responsibility.

 

I'm not saying ANet did anything illegal, but your argument is totally irrelevant.

[Anthony.7630]

Unless you can hire 4 100,000$ lawyers to help you win a case against NCsoft goodluck.

 

Windows 10 already spies what you do on your computer. So does google chrome and steam and just about every video game out there scans your computer.

 

There is soon going to be no privacy on this earth for humanity as advancements in technologies and money make it to where the world is one big giant database and all corporations know what your doing all the time. Same with cellphones.

 

Also I understand people are frustrated but if you do not like what anet does - just uninstall the game and move one with life.

 

I live in america and everything tracks what i do. I haven't been abused yet or hurt in any way so far - so i am not worried about my privacy.

 

Usually people who are worried about their privacy usually have some psychological disorder or maybe they feel paranoia schizophrenia about being studied by marketing resources and advertisements.

 

I let anet scan my computer because i have nothing to hide. Also i read and agreed to the TOS so i know i am giving away some of my rights.

 

The thing is - are world is becoming so interconnected (or america is anyways) that you cannot hide from anyone for long. Have to accept that if you want to be part of the modern world - you have to let your privacy be scanned.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

Pretty much what Anthony said. I don't like it either, but it's the reality of the Internet and online gaming in general.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

You know what I find hilarious? That this thread hasn't been deleted yet. It's a glorified, "I quit!" rage post.

[GrubySzymek.1362]

> @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> Pretty much what Anthony said. I don't like it either, but it's the reality of the Internet and online gaming in general.

 

Only because it's not regulated. Just like with lootboxes, gaming industry exploits holes in law. Secret data gathering is on of such holes.

[Ionella.7269]

I'm all for banning cheaters, but I admit in case of Cheat Engine is slippery slope, I used it quite often while I was playing Farmville or those hidden object games (yeah, shame me), so I'm kinda familiar with how it works, but unfortunately for those folks banned because they just had it running, I dont think there is a way for them to prove it wasn't used for GW2, correct me if I'm wrong, so it all boils down to their word against ANET's. I wasn't banned just to mention that.

On another note, a friend of mine was among those banned, and asked me to help him write a ticket, I did ask him if he did anything he was not supposed to, he told me he didn't. So I helped. His ban was reversed because he fell into that category of being previously banned for botting (he used a macro, recieved 1 month ban, didn't appeal since he knew he fucked up) and being associated with person banned for one of those programs (in talking with that person she admited she used one of those programs on two occasions on the same day, we often play with her, I had no idea what was she doing). In my opinion that was pretty much a dick move, you cannot just go around handing out bans for something you already banned someone for just because that someone plays with a person who was cheating, what kind of logic is that?

[Haleydawn.3764]

> @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> I call bull kitten.

>

> A fancy mouse and keyboard are not third party programs.

 

Technically, they are, or atleast the software is. They are not provided by Anet for you to use/play the game. You are the 1st party, Anet is the second.

If you use the software that comes with your hardware (Razer Synapse for example) *in a way that is not in allignment with the UA/ToS* (1 key = 1 action), is considered using a 3rd party program to gain advantage, no matter how small that advantage might be (macro-ing Dodge jump to one key, multi-click etc)

 

I have myself a Razer Naga, and many guild members also have Gaming Hardware they use in Gw2 (Blackwidows, Orbweavers etc), and **were not banned** because they understand the ToS surrounding input -> output in Gw2.

 

I re-map all my keys via gw2 ingame options. Not a problem.

[Anthony.7630]

Pretty sure terms of services are legel bindings that you agree to in order to gain access to the game. Most EU people are not as understanding of law and that's fine. EU law protects the consumer which is pretty nice.

 

But Legal bindings must be upheld by both parties and if you clicked accept before you chose a server on EU - you gave them the right to monitored your actions while you play guild wars 2.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> Hello,

>

> I wanted to be sure that folks who are following or participating in this thread are aware that we've provided a lot of additional information this evening in [this post](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/476255/#Comment_476255 "this thread"). I hope that in reading that update, you'll find your questions are answered.

 

Thank you, Gaile! I expect this puts a lot of minds at ease.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

On a side note, I'm loving how these posts went from "I'm not a cheater!" to "Okay, I cheated, but not on Guild Wars 2!" to "It's unethical for ANet to look at my stuff! Shame on them!"

 

Hilarious.

[Voltekka.2375]

At first, it was "i was only using arcdps, Taco and music macro".

When Anet published the 3rd party programs, it got changed to "i used cheatengine for other games only!"

If Anet provides more proof of the cheaters' cheating, people will say "i was only speedrunning for SAB/do an easy daily!"

Such is the nature of cheating.

I do feel sorry for those select few who may have been banned wrongly. I hope their punishment gets removed.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Anthony.7630" said:

> Pretty sure terms of services are legel bindings that you agree to in order to gain access to the game. Most EU people are not as understanding of law and that's fine. EU law protects the consumer which is pretty nice.

>

> But Legal bindings must be upheld by both parties and if you clicked accept before you chose a server on EU - you gave them the right to monitored your actions while you play guild wars 2.

 

So, you're saying that a contract between two parties that violates the law is legally binding? Sounds...questionable.

[Anthony.7630]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > Pretty much what Anthony said. I don't like it either, but it's the reality of the Internet and online gaming in general.

>

> Only because it's not regulated. Just like with lootboxes, gaming industry exploits holes in law. Secret data gathering is on of such holes.

 

Well the dangers of consumers and governments is the governments try to protect consumers because most consumers don't have common sense or will power or any self control as well as caution. That's why american businesses hate governments. Government protects consumers while businesses need money - and the best place to get money is from people who have no self control or no will power or maturity / intelligence / common sense to know what they are doing.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Seriusly privacy is an illusion i dont mind this really but privacy dont really exist on net

[Assic.2746]

>Also I understand people are frustrated but if you do not like what anet does - just uninstall the game and move one with life.

 

But first you have let everyone on Reddit and GW2 forums know you are quitting. That's the unspoken rule.

[Anthony.7630]

> @"AliamRationem.5172" said:

> > @"Anthony.7630" said:

> > Pretty sure terms of services are legel bindings that you agree to in order to gain access to the game. Most EU people are not as understanding of law and that's fine. EU law protects the consumer which is pretty nice.

> >

> > But Legal bindings must be upheld by both parties and if you clicked accept before you chose a server on EU - you gave them the right to monitored your actions while you play guild wars 2.

>

> So, you're saying that a contract between two parties that violates the law is legally binding? Sounds...questionable.

 

what violation are you talking about ? it's like bartering or trading magic cards. Anet agrees to let you have access to their servers and chat channels - in exchange - you must let them scan your computer and also can kick you out of their servers and chat channels for reasons..or no reason at all. Once you both agree the deal is made.

 

You are free to break free from the deal at any time. Just uninstall guild wars 2 and never come back to the forums (delate all your accounts and chat forum avatars)

[SkyShroud.2865]

People really think hackers will use cheat engine for mmo, lmao, I can't stop laughing at this.

[Deihnyx.6318]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > Pretty much what Anthony said. I don't like it either, but it's the reality of the Internet and online gaming in general.

>

> Only because it's not regulated. Just like with lootboxes, gaming industry exploits holes in law. Secret data gathering is on of such holes.

 

And just like lootboxes people are blowing this out of proportion.

Actually It's even worse here. We hear things like "breach of privacy" and "security" for something that is being done by your own OS, and that can be done very easily by any program that you install. A list of processes. Woo, like you guys ever cared before...

 

It also can't be regulated that easily. And politics wouldn't understand the ramifications... the game has to transmit data, and get data back to its server. And monitoring is not as intrusive as some people make it sound like. It's a list of processes ....

 

And finally, the all too glorious anonymity of the internet is causing quite a lot of problems recently, with people saying whatever they want, hiding behind pseudonyms. You don't even know if they're real people or just bots, and they keep influencing society, lying, modifying facts here and there. That's where all this craziness is leading.