GrubySzymek.1362 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @""Jinks.2057" > > > > > > No, anyone that expects any one to believe that they were running a _benign hack program_, my bad... I mean a _benign hex editor program_ in the background while playing GW2, has lost all credit to their stand. No one believes this, no one, and the people that parrot it, are just digging a deeper hole of contempt for themselves. > > > > > > There is no problem here, Anet has openly said in their ToS and EULA, that they may, at their discretion, monitor our gaming activity, and the programs our computer may run, (quoted a few times in this topic, they even put in all-cap, so you know it was important), this was not stealth move on their part, where they did something without our knowledge or permission, because, if you disagreed with allowing them to do that, you had every right to cancel your service with them. > > > > > > Now, if this is an issue for you, you can at this time, cease your service with Anet, but, don't expect a large following, as almost no one believes you are victims, and even fewer would quit a game in solidarity with cheaters. > > > > Since you probably didn;t read whole thread, just a reminder that the only app in question is cheat engine as it has more uses than simply hacking games. This gives possibility of false positive results and some innocent players might have been rewarded with unjustified suspensions. > > > > Others apps from waht I read are directed into hacking GW2 so in their cases bans are most likely justified. > > Yah.. That is why I said _Benign Hex Editor_ and.. reality check.. No one believes it. > > I mean really, lets just put this out, if someone is computer savvy enough to both play a involved MMO and work their _Programming Thesis_ (After all people cited _Educational Purposes_) in the background, they are smart enough to at least read the ToS and EULA (as this is going to be their future profession, it behooves them to know what it says) , and know, that doing such could give them a false positive for running a hack program. As such, they also, have no one to blame but themselves. This is the problem. All you say are empty assumptions based on your personal perception. Do not act like every person thinks the same. And definitely Anet shouldn't act like this. Yes, filtering for cheat engine should flag the account - but not for immediate ban but for further investigation. Also, Gaile should have never posted they will not accept appeals as with this single tool it's very possible to generate some false positive results. Rest of these apps are obvious hacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STIHL.2489 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Firebaall.5127" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Firebaall.5127" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > Nope, a cheat engine is malicious designed to hack games, as such there is no way a cheat engine can be used _benign_. It's an flat out illegal program you had running on your system as you played GW2. > > > > > > > > > > Well my dude...you just lost whatever argument or Anet apologist stance you tried to take with that gem. It shows that you truly don't know what's going on. Cheatengine despite it's name is an incredibly useful software that has widespread benign use. It's sees heavy use among computer science students and programming enthusiasts alike. > > > > Oh sure, and I bet people were running a hex editor and debug program in the background while playing GW2.. for _educational purposes_. Yup, totally believable. And any real credit that the hackers wanted to put out.. just went poof. > > I'm sorry you can't seem to look at this issue critically. It's like arguing with a religious nut that merely relies on belief to support their soapbox, in that no amount of explanation or evidence will sway your preconceived fallacious standings. > > ...standings that are built on conjecture and ignorant bias. > > You're wrong here, just like Anet is. No, this is like watching someone get caught with drugs in their house, and then watching them fuss they never did drugs "I never inhaled" yah.. no one believes them either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firebaall.5127 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Firebaall.5127" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Firebaall.5127" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > Nope, a cheat engine is malicious designed to hack games, as such there is no way a cheat engine can be used _benign_. It's an flat out illegal program you had running on your system as you played GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well my dude...you just lost whatever argument or Anet apologist stance you tried to take with that gem. It shows that you truly don't know what's going on. Cheatengine despite it's name is an incredibly useful software that has widespread benign use. It's sees heavy use among computer science students and programming enthusiasts alike. > > > > > > Oh sure, and I bet people were running a hex editor and debug program in the background while playing GW2.. for _educational purposes_. Yup, totally believable. And any real credit that the hackers wanted to put out.. just went poof. > > > > I'm sorry you can't seem to look at this issue critically. It's like arguing with a religious nut that merely relies on belief to support their soapbox, in that no amount of explanation or evidence will sway your preconceived fallacious standings. > > > > ...standings that are built on conjecture and ignorant bias. > > > > You're wrong here, just like Anet is. > > No, this is like watching someone get caught with drugs in their house, and then watching them fuss they never did drugs "I never inhaled" yah.. no one believes them either. Except, sometimes there's a prescription and valid reason for those drugs. See how dangerous your blanket mentality is? Probably not.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faowri.4159 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Rhiannon.1726" said: > > When you already have a problem with GW2 collecting data to identify cheat programs, I hope you don't have steam or discord. > > > > BTW have you read the user agreement for GW2? > > Thankfully since May 25th UE citizens can ignore the silly contract that is User Agreement and demand Anet to show and delete all data in relation to the customer. Actually a legitimate point. I'm curious as to whether the information they collected falls under the scope of GDPR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belorn.2659 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 They could have a developer write a statement on the forum that information from users not suspected of any wrongdoing is now deleted. It would help a lot and reassure that paying customers that have done nothing wrong get treated with respect and understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezekan.2671 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Firebaall.5127" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Firebaall.5127" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > Nope, a cheat engine is malicious designed to hack games, as such there is no way a cheat engine can be used _benign_. It's an flat out illegal program you had running on your system as you played GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well my dude...you just lost whatever argument or Anet apologist stance you tried to take with that gem. It shows that you truly don't know what's going on. Cheatengine despite it's name is an incredibly useful software that has widespread benign use. It's sees heavy use among computer science students and programming enthusiasts alike. > > > > > > Oh sure, and I bet people were running a hex editor and debug program in the background while playing GW2.. for _educational purposes_. Yup, totally believable. And any real credit that the hackers wanted to put out.. just went poof. > > > > I'm sorry you can't seem to look at this issue critically. It's like arguing with a religious nut that merely relies on belief to support their soapbox, in that no amount of explanation or evidence will sway your preconceived fallacious standings. > > > > ...standings that are built on conjecture and ignorant bias. > > > > You're wrong here, just like Anet is. > > No, this is like watching someone get caught with drugs in their house, and then watching them fuss they never did drugs "I never inhaled" yah.. no one believes them either. Maybe you don't, but I will amuse myself with your analogy. Anet has not provided a proof, therefore we don't have any evidence of drugs in the home. Not to mention any circumstantial evidence they might have is acquired by spying and violating people's privacy. The police in question is notoriously known for wrongfully arresting people. So yes, we have every reason to doubt Anet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardenwolfe.8590 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > @"Firebaall.5127" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Firebaall.5127" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > Nope, a cheat engine is malicious designed to hack games, as such there is no way a cheat engine can be used _benign_. It's an flat out illegal program you had running on your system as you played GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well my dude...you just lost whatever argument or Anet apologist stance you tried to take with that gem. It shows that you truly don't know what's going on. Cheatengine despite it's name is an incredibly useful software that has widespread benign use. It's sees heavy use among computer science students and programming enthusiasts alike. > > > > > > Oh sure, and I bet people were running a hex editor and debug program in the background while playing GW2.. for _educational purposes_. Yup, totally believable. And any real credit that the hackers wanted to put out.. just went poof. > > > > I'm sorry you can't seem to look at this issue critically. It's like arguing with a religious nut that merely relies on belief to support their soapbox, in that no amount of explanation or evidence will sway your preconceived fallacious standings. > > > > ...standings that are built on conjecture and ignorant bias. > > > > You're wrong here, just like Anet is. > > No, this is like watching someone get caught with drugs in their house, and then watching them fuss they never did drugs "I never inhaled" yah.. no one believes them either. You know, that's a good example of this. I recall a Judge Judy case where the defendant complained about his drunk driving arrest. He said he was arrested in McDonald's. So . . . he wasn't drunk driving . . . he was drunk in McDonald's. Problem was he drove to McDonald's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireanne.7682 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > @"fireanne.7682" said: > > @Nezekan.2671 > > That is not really true. When you connect your game client to the internet and enter the game, you are already in public space as your actions can influence other players...in addition, I already said myself that the metaphor is not perfect. It is of course hard to truly compare physical shared space and virtual shared space. > > @Kheldorn.5123 > > What I mean is, what difference is there between a player running a hack-able program with the game beningly and a player using it to hack the game, when looking from the outside? > > Of course hacks of one player cannot in any way damage or influence installed game clients of other players, that is not the nature or extent of the connection. But hacking players still influence other players' gaming experience and have a palpable impact on their gameplay, no? > > > > As a note, I myself do not like the "no appeal policy" as I also maintain that even one unfairly banned account is wrong. However, I am just stating that if one runs something like Cheatengine together with the game for extended periods of time, that is hardly witch hunt or being really unfair... > > That depends on what country you are from. Here in Germany you are not in public space by merely connecting to the internet. If you go to a website, you are virtually there and what you post is public, however what you DON'T post is not. So this forum is public space for me right now, but its limited to what I post/upload. > > Similarly when I'm in GW2 what I do and say in the game is public, as well as my GW2 folder and what I connect to the game, in this case using 3rd party apps WITH GW2, and not simply having it on your PC (which is my case, I was not even running any of these programs). > > Your analogy sucks because privacy is violated constantly on internet and we still don't have laws in place to combat that. Countries like Germany have taken steps in the right direction, but it not even close to being enough. Denying this is currently a problem is taking the side of large corporations instead of people and Anet has slowly become one of those corporations. They only care about their "reputation" and it doesn't matter to them if they burn a few people who did not cheat in any shape or form. They could have acknowledged Cheat Engine is a very common app with broad uses and but the other programs on their lists are very specific and purely made for cheat, some of them made specially for GW2. **They could have looked into cheat engine uses manually and ban the rest**, but they didn't Because they do not care. I am actually gonna point out just one thing here. See the part in bold? You are basically asking for them to intrude our privacy whilst calling for protection of our privacy. Also, again. I myself was the first one to admit that my analogy is far from ideal. Just saying. Otherwise I agree with most of what you said regarding the privacy issue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezekan.2671 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"fireanne.7682" said: > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > @"fireanne.7682" said: > > > @Nezekan.2671 > > > That is not really true. When you connect your game client to the internet and enter the game, you are already in public space as your actions can influence other players...in addition, I already said myself that the metaphor is not perfect. It is of course hard to truly compare physical shared space and virtual shared space. > > > @Kheldorn.5123 > > > What I mean is, what difference is there between a player running a hack-able program with the game beningly and a player using it to hack the game, when looking from the outside? > > > Of course hacks of one player cannot in any way damage or influence installed game clients of other players, that is not the nature or extent of the connection. But hacking players still influence other players' gaming experience and have a palpable impact on their gameplay, no? > > > > > > As a note, I myself do not like the "no appeal policy" as I also maintain that even one unfairly banned account is wrong. However, I am just stating that if one runs something like Cheatengine together with the game for extended periods of time, that is hardly witch hunt or being really unfair... > > > > That depends on what country you are from. Here in Germany you are not in public space by merely connecting to the internet. If you go to a website, you are virtually there and what you post is public, however what you DON'T post is not. So this forum is public space for me right now, but its limited to what I post/upload. > > > > Similarly when I'm in GW2 what I do and say in the game is public, as well as my GW2 folder and what I connect to the game, in this case using 3rd party apps WITH GW2, and not simply having it on your PC (which is my case, I was not even running any of these programs). > > > > Your analogy sucks because privacy is violated constantly on internet and we still don't have laws in place to combat that. Countries like Germany have taken steps in the right direction, but it not even close to being enough. Denying this is currently a problem is taking the side of large corporations instead of people and Anet has slowly become one of those corporations. They only care about their "reputation" and it doesn't matter to them if they burn a few people who did not cheat in any shape or form. They could have acknowledged Cheat Engine is a very common app with broad uses and but the other programs on their lists are very specific and purely made for cheat, some of them made specially for GW2. **They could have looked into cheat engine uses manually and ban the rest**, but they didn't Because they do not care. > > I am actually gonna point out just one thing here. See the part in bold? You are basically asking for them to intrude our privacy whilst calling for protection of our privacy. > Also, again. I myself was the first one to admit that my analogy is far from ideal. Just saying. > Otherwise I agree with most of what you said regarding the privacy issue... I just told you it happens regularly. I'm OK with them flagging my account for further investigation. Shooting first and asking questions later is my problem. My privacy is violated in either cases, at least in one of them I'm not banned and I would even cooperate with them because I have nothing to fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 if you have nothing to hide then there's nothing to worry about. Too many people watching paranoid/conspiracy theory trash tv these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > They were cheating. And got caught. Period. > > > > > > The assumption is they were cheating. What anet knows is that they had running cheat engine. There is no confirmation it was used to hack GW2. > > > > > > Most of them probably are indeed cheaters, but since 50+ bans are already lifted some more false positives may be waiting in CS queues asking for mercy. > > > > > > > Why are you failing to read what they actually wrote.. its not just about cheat engine, there are other stuff as well, which are direct multihack tools for a specific purpose.. cheat engine has some uses aside of actually cheating.. but the again ask yourself why they had it there running to get flagged. > > Those account bans being revoked have been flagged and already have a history for it, but they were given a pass this time. We don't know what bit of code was found on any particular account.. you are assuming that they did nothing wrong.. you simply have nothing to base that on > > Yes, but other stuff is made to hack GW2. Cheat engine has wider range of possible usability that leaves a lot of space for false positives. And if you read carefully, it was already mentioned here that cheat engine related bans are the only ones discussed here as possibility of unjustified bans. Not all of them obviously, but that would only be possible to explain if Anet didn't refuse to accept appeals from the beginning. You were blaming anet for false positives for anything and everything before it was even known what was being detected ... no sorry there is another reason behind all this for you I believe. What makes you still think this has anything to do with false positives.. have anet said that.. not seen it on here. If its on redditt then I wouldn't of seen that as I dislike that godawful site. Are you sure its not just accounts that are associated to those flagged already and were banned by default.. that is prudent imo but of course on appeal that might be considered as they were clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > They were cheating. And got caught. Period. > > > > > > > > The assumption is they were cheating. What anet knows is that they had running cheat engine. There is no confirmation it was used to hack GW2. > > > > > > > > Most of them probably are indeed cheaters, but since 50+ bans are already lifted some more false positives may be waiting in CS queues asking for mercy. > > > > > > > > > > Why are you failing to read what they actually wrote.. its not just about cheat engine, there are other stuff as well, which are direct multihack tools for a specific purpose.. cheat engine has some uses aside of actually cheating.. but the again ask yourself why they had it there running to get flagged. > > > Those account bans being revoked have been flagged and already have a history for it, but they were given a pass this time. We don't know what bit of code was found on any particular account.. you are assuming that they did nothing wrong.. you simply have nothing to base that on > > > > Yes, but other stuff is made to hack GW2. Cheat engine has wider range of possible usability that leaves a lot of space for false positives. And if you read carefully, it was already mentioned here that cheat engine related bans are the only ones discussed here as possibility of unjustified bans. Not all of them obviously, but that would only be possible to explain if Anet didn't refuse to accept appeals from the beginning. > > You were blaming anet for false positives for anything and everything before it was even known what was being detected ... no sorry there is another reason behind all this for you I believe. > What makes you still think this has anything to do with false positives.. have anet said that.. not seen it on here. If its on redditt then I wouldn't of seen that as I dislike that godawful site. Are you sure its not just accounts that are associated to those flagged already and were banned by default.. that is prudent imo but of course on appeal that might be considered as they were clean. Yes, I blamed them for ignoring possibility of false positives because their official announcement was "no appeals". That means they ignore any possibility of mistakes by default, which is disrespectful towards customers. Anet pretty much confirmed reddit revelations in Gaile's second message. If you come up with your tinfoil hat idea of my "hidden agenda" please share with us. I need good laugh today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Firebaall.5127" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Firebaall.5127" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Nope, a cheat engine is malicious designed to hack games, as such there is no way a cheat engine can be used _benign_. It's an flat out illegal program you had running on your system as you played GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well my dude...you just lost whatever argument or Anet apologist stance you tried to take with that gem. It shows that you truly don't know what's going on. Cheatengine despite it's name is an incredibly useful software that has widespread benign use. It's sees heavy use among computer science students and programming enthusiasts alike. > > > > > > > > Oh sure, and I bet people were running a hex editor and debug program in the background while playing GW2.. for _educational purposes_. Yup, totally believable. And any real credit that the hackers wanted to put out.. just went poof. > > > > > > I'm sorry you can't seem to look at this issue critically. It's like arguing with a religious nut that merely relies on belief to support their soapbox, in that no amount of explanation or evidence will sway your preconceived fallacious standings. > > > > > > ...standings that are built on conjecture and ignorant bias. > > > > > > You're wrong here, just like Anet is. > > > > No, this is like watching someone get caught with drugs in their house, and then watching them fuss they never did drugs "I never inhaled" yah.. no one believes them either. > > You know, that's a good example of this. I recall a Judge Judy case where the defendant complained about his drunk driving arrest. He said he was arrested in McDonald's. So . . . he wasn't drunk driving . . . he was drunk in McDonald's. > > Problem was he drove to McDonald's. Game is McDonald's, Cheat engine is car but what Anet didn't check for, based on their announcement, is driving part. In this case your analogy was like that: You are sitting drunk at McDonald's and police arrests you because you have a car so it's possible for you to drive it drunk today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Firebaall.5127" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Firebaall.5127" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Firebaall.5127" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Nope, a cheat engine is malicious designed to hack games, as such there is no way a cheat engine can be used _benign_. It's an flat out illegal program you had running on your system as you played GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well my dude...you just lost whatever argument or Anet apologist stance you tried to take with that gem. It shows that you truly don't know what's going on. Cheatengine despite it's name is an incredibly useful software that has widespread benign use. It's sees heavy use among computer science students and programming enthusiasts alike. > > > > > > > > Oh sure, and I bet people were running a hex editor and debug program in the background while playing GW2.. for _educational purposes_. Yup, totally believable. And any real credit that the hackers wanted to put out.. just went poof. > > > > > > I'm sorry you can't seem to look at this issue critically. It's like arguing with a religious nut that merely relies on belief to support their soapbox, in that no amount of explanation or evidence will sway your preconceived fallacious standings. > > > > > > ...standings that are built on conjecture and ignorant bias. > > > > > > You're wrong here, just like Anet is. > > > > No, this is like watching someone get caught with drugs in their house, and then watching them fuss they never did drugs "I never inhaled" yah.. no one believes them either. > > Except, sometimes there's a prescription and valid reason for those drugs. See how dangerous your blanket mentality is? Probably not.... You really do like to stretch things don't you. Firstly why would you be being arrested at home.. is it because something has alerted the police or do police just call randomly at your door and expect to gain entrance. Prescription drugs will be in small qty, the first thing they would even check if you did let them in for some offbeat random search is your prescription maybe through receipt or definitely through your med history... see how your silly your blanket S J W approach can look as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > if you have nothing to hide then there's nothing to worry about. Too many people watching paranoid/conspiracy theory trash tv these days. Do you leave your home door opened for strangers when going to work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > @"Firebaall.5127" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Firebaall.5127" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Nope, a cheat engine is malicious designed to hack games, as such there is no way a cheat engine can be used _benign_. It's an flat out illegal program you had running on your system as you played GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well my dude...you just lost whatever argument or Anet apologist stance you tried to take with that gem. It shows that you truly don't know what's going on. Cheatengine despite it's name is an incredibly useful software that has widespread benign use. It's sees heavy use among computer science students and programming enthusiasts alike. > > > > > > > > Oh sure, and I bet people were running a hex editor and debug program in the background while playing GW2.. for _educational purposes_. Yup, totally believable. And any real credit that the hackers wanted to put out.. just went poof. > > > > > > I'm sorry you can't seem to look at this issue critically. It's like arguing with a religious nut that merely relies on belief to support their soapbox, in that no amount of explanation or evidence will sway your preconceived fallacious standings. > > > > > > ...standings that are built on conjecture and ignorant bias. > > > > > > You're wrong here, just like Anet is. > > > > No, this is like watching someone get caught with drugs in their house, and then watching them fuss they never did drugs "I never inhaled" yah.. no one believes them either. > > Maybe you don't, but I will amuse myself with your analogy. > > Anet has not provided a proof, therefore we don't have any evidence of drugs in the home. Not to mention any circumstantial evidence they might have is acquired by spying and violating people's privacy. > > The police in question is notoriously known for wrongfully arresting people. > > So yes, we have every reason to doubt Anet. It's more like if they conducted a warrantless search and found something incriminating. That would often get thrown out a court of law. Bascially, even if someone has committed a crime, it does not give the government free reign to do whatever. Mostly. Of course the powers that be try to find a way to circumvent people's rights. One of these things incidentally, is the Drug War. So it's a bit ironic it's getting brought up here. It's that kind of attitude which leads to the populace supporting stuff like government surveillance and spying all in the name of safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptAurellian.9537 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > if you have nothing to hide then there's nothing to worry about. Too many people watching paranoid/conspiracy theory trash tv these days. Not that "nothing to hide" nonsense again. Mind putting a 24/7 webcam into your bedroom if you have nothing to hide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > if you have nothing to hide then there's nothing to worry about. Too many people watching paranoid/conspiracy theory trash tv these days. > > Do you leave your home door opened for strangers when going to work? umm k Do you walk the streets with a cowl over your head in case a public camera there to protect you records you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardenwolfe.8590 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > @"Firebaall.5127" said: > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > @"Firebaall.5127" said: > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nope, a cheat engine is malicious designed to hack games, as such there is no way a cheat engine can be used _benign_. It's an flat out illegal program you had running on your system as you played GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well my dude...you just lost whatever argument or Anet apologist stance you tried to take with that gem. It shows that you truly don't know what's going on. Cheatengine despite it's name is an incredibly useful software that has widespread benign use. It's sees heavy use among computer science students and programming enthusiasts alike. > > > > > > > > > > Oh sure, and I bet people were running a hex editor and debug program in the background while playing GW2.. for _educational purposes_. Yup, totally believable. And any real credit that the hackers wanted to put out.. just went poof. > > > > > > > > I'm sorry you can't seem to look at this issue critically. It's like arguing with a religious nut that merely relies on belief to support their soapbox, in that no amount of explanation or evidence will sway your preconceived fallacious standings. > > > > > > > > ...standings that are built on conjecture and ignorant bias. > > > > > > > > You're wrong here, just like Anet is. > > > > > > No, this is like watching someone get caught with drugs in their house, and then watching them fuss they never did drugs "I never inhaled" yah.. no one believes them either. > > > > You know, that's a good example of this. I recall a Judge Judy case where the defendant complained about his drunk driving arrest. He said he was arrested in McDonald's. So . . . he wasn't drunk driving . . . he was drunk in McDonald's. > > > > Problem was he drove to McDonald's. > > Game is McDonald's, Cheat engine is car but what Anet didn't check for, based on their announcement, is driving part. In this case your analogy was like that: > > You are sitting drunk at McDonald's and police arrests you because you have a car so it's possible for you to drive it drunk today. Um . . . you're a little too eager to argue and manipulate what I said for the sake of your point of view. It wasn't _possible_. He did drive there drunk just like those people protesting here _did_ in-fact cheat. That said, Judge Judy saw it for what it's worth and found him guilty. Again . . . obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vesica tempestas.1563 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"CptAurellian.9537" said: > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > if you have nothing to hide then there's nothing to worry about. Too many people watching paranoid/conspiracy theory trash tv these days. > Not that "nothing to hide" nonsense again. Mind putting a 24/7 webcam into your bedroom if you have nothing to hide? wait i think i remember that episode! read the hyperbolic title of the thread again, do you think they setup and pay to maintain a database to track all this data, do you really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > @"Firebaall.5127" said: > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > @"Firebaall.5127" said: > > > > > > > > @"STIHL.2489" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nope, a cheat engine is malicious designed to hack games, as such there is no way a cheat engine can be used _benign_. It's an flat out illegal program you had running on your system as you played GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well my dude...you just lost whatever argument or Anet apologist stance you tried to take with that gem. It shows that you truly don't know what's going on. Cheatengine despite it's name is an incredibly useful software that has widespread benign use. It's sees heavy use among computer science students and programming enthusiasts alike. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh sure, and I bet people were running a hex editor and debug program in the background while playing GW2.. for _educational purposes_. Yup, totally believable. And any real credit that the hackers wanted to put out.. just went poof. > > > > > > > > > > I'm sorry you can't seem to look at this issue critically. It's like arguing with a religious nut that merely relies on belief to support their soapbox, in that no amount of explanation or evidence will sway your preconceived fallacious standings. > > > > > > > > > > ...standings that are built on conjecture and ignorant bias. > > > > > > > > > > You're wrong here, just like Anet is. > > > > > > > > No, this is like watching someone get caught with drugs in their house, and then watching them fuss they never did drugs "I never inhaled" yah.. no one believes them either. > > > > > > You know, that's a good example of this. I recall a Judge Judy case where the defendant complained about his drunk driving arrest. He said he was arrested in McDonald's. So . . . he wasn't drunk driving . . . he was drunk in McDonald's. > > > > > > Problem was he drove to McDonald's. > > > > Game is McDonald's, Cheat engine is car but what Anet didn't check for, based on their announcement, is driving part. In this case your analogy was like that: > > > > You are sitting drunk at McDonald's and police arrests you because you have a car so it's possible for you to drive it drunk today. > > Um . . . you're a little too eager to argue and manipulate what I said for the sake of your point of view. It wasn't _possible_. He did drive there drunk just like those people protesting here did in-fact cheat. That said, Judge Judy saw it for what it's worth and found him guilty. > > Again . . . obviously. Yes, in the story you mentioned they knew he drove the car. In our story, Anet sees a drunkard and his car, but they never saw him driving. Maybe he's waiting for his wife to come back from the shop and drive him home? Such non obvious cases should be investigated and explained via CS however Gaile said no appeals will be revied, which rejects a customer any option to get his account back - if he is innocent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > It raises more questions because you are basically admitting you have no evidence of people cheating but detected they have the program open at the same time which according to you is good enough reason to ban users for 6 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right ... people only have the software in question OPEN on their computers while playing the game ... they don't actually use it :confounded: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cheatengine, despite the name, is not used exclusively for cheating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe ... but that's the player's risk isn't it ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > uhm no, this is not like bringing a gun to a school, this is like having a bread knife, you having this tool doesn't automatically mean you used it to hack gw2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No it's not like bringing a gun to school or a bread knife. It's like breaking the terms of the agreement you have with Anet every time you log into the game. You're like the other guy ... you don't seem to understand what you pay for when you play this game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are defending Anet now but with such lackluster systems like they have, one day you can be rewarded with unjustified ban by them. On that day, you gonna change your stance on this subject. You should respect yourself as a customer and never trust companies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your continual disdain of ANET in this matter and your vehement support for those banned is beginning to make me think your are in some way affected by this otherwise why do you keep making these baseless remarks.. provide some proof of what was done and what was not done by those affected, prove what anet has or has not done breaks any kind of law and then we can all rejoice and praise joko! > > > > > > > > > > > > ANET has already come out and said they will be lifting the ban on a small number of accounts.. but those accounts have already been caught in a botting or hacking incident previously so something has triggered a flag on them again.. but they have been let off this time.. feel good for them. > > > > > > > > > > Your assumptions are wrong then. You can see me in game this afternoon if you need confirmation. I'm not defending rightfully banned. I'm defending myself as a customers from future possible mistakes from Anet's "careful investigations". > > > > > > > > If you don't violate the EULA, you don't have to defend yourself from future possible mistakes. The risk is on the player. > > > > > > You mean UA, not EULA. Anet has history of banning people wrongfully. So not breaking their rules in no way protects me from their mistakes. > > > > > > I just remembered the case at release when people were speed leveling to lvl 80. Some used an exploit and then were banned, but world first level 80 didn't and they still banned him. MO himself apologised on reddit, you can still find his post there. > > > > > > So please, stop convincing me about being safe when Anet is involved. They made many mistakes in the past. They are only people. > > > > Hey, if you don't feel safe from Anet, don't play their games. Otherwise, you accept your CHOICE to be subjected to their behaviour as a corporation. I don't patronize companies that treat me poorly, and neither should you. That's YOUR choice to make. > > I presented examples aka facts about anet making mistakes in the past. Therefore I have no reason to believe when they say there is no room for mistake on their part. I paid for the game multiple times and I'm not going away because they will not refund me. Also being responsible for my well being as their customer, I expect them to read all the feedback I give them. It's not for you to judge. And if your only argument is "don't like it - get out" then be warned that I am not going to continue discussing your nonsense. What can I say then ... you keep believing you're account access is in jeopardy then ... and enjoy playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardenwolfe.8590 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 Just . . . wow. Time to play some games now. Because I can. I don't run a cheat program while playing an MMO. :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrubySzymek.1362 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It raises more questions because you are basically admitting you have no evidence of people cheating but detected they have the program open at the same time which according to you is good enough reason to ban users for 6 months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Right ... people only have the software in question OPEN on their computers while playing the game ... they don't actually use it :confounded: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cheatengine, despite the name, is not used exclusively for cheating > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe ... but that's the player's risk isn't it ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > uhm no, this is not like bringing a gun to a school, this is like having a bread knife, you having this tool doesn't automatically mean you used it to hack gw2 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No it's not like bringing a gun to school or a bread knife. It's like breaking the terms of the agreement you have with Anet every time you log into the game. You're like the other guy ... you don't seem to understand what you pay for when you play this game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are defending Anet now but with such lackluster systems like they have, one day you can be rewarded with unjustified ban by them. On that day, you gonna change your stance on this subject. You should respect yourself as a customer and never trust companies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your continual disdain of ANET in this matter and your vehement support for those banned is beginning to make me think your are in some way affected by this otherwise why do you keep making these baseless remarks.. provide some proof of what was done and what was not done by those affected, prove what anet has or has not done breaks any kind of law and then we can all rejoice and praise joko! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ANET has already come out and said they will be lifting the ban on a small number of accounts.. but those accounts have already been caught in a botting or hacking incident previously so something has triggered a flag on them again.. but they have been let off this time.. feel good for them. > > > > > > > > > > > > Your assumptions are wrong then. You can see me in game this afternoon if you need confirmation. I'm not defending rightfully banned. I'm defending myself as a customers from future possible mistakes from Anet's "careful investigations". > > > > > > > > > > If you don't violate the EULA, you don't have to defend yourself from future possible mistakes. The risk is on the player. > > > > > > > > You mean UA, not EULA. Anet has history of banning people wrongfully. So not breaking their rules in no way protects me from their mistakes. > > > > > > > > I just remembered the case at release when people were speed leveling to lvl 80. Some used an exploit and then were banned, but world first level 80 didn't and they still banned him. MO himself apologised on reddit, you can still find his post there. > > > > > > > > So please, stop convincing me about being safe when Anet is involved. They made many mistakes in the past. They are only people. > > > > > > Hey, if you don't feel safe from Anet, don't play their games. Otherwise, you accept your CHOICE to be subjected to their behaviour as a corporation. I don't patronize companies that treat me poorly, and neither should you. That's YOUR choice to make. > > > > I presented examples aka facts about anet making mistakes in the past. Therefore I have no reason to believe when they say there is no room for mistake on their part. I paid for the game multiple times and I'm not going away because they will not refund me. Also being responsible for my well being as their customer, I expect them to read all the feedback I give them. It's not for you to judge. And if your only argument is "don't like it - get out" then be warned that I am not going to continue discussing your nonsense. > > What can I say then ... you keep believing you're account access is in jeopardy then ... and enjoy playing. your* I believe that all the time and money I invested in the service can be in jeopardy unless Anet acts responsibly and will never announce such idiocy like "no appeals" again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > @"fireanne.7682" said: > > You know, the bottom line is - if you play GW2, you agreed to their ToS. They want to make a game fair, and that might, unfortunately, involve some effort on the user's side, such as turning off Cheat engine before playing. Is it really that difficult to understand? X: > > Even if you consider User Agreement, it forbids you from using hacks in GW2. It doesn't forbids you for having these tools. And anet acted on assumption that "if he has a knife, he can be guilty of a crime". > * Account holder was discovered in the members-only portion of the club with tools that allow one to open the vault. * Dude is shocked because their membership was suspended for six months, even though they didn't commit a crime. Besides which: GW2 is **not** the first game that has adopted this policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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