fireanne.7682 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > Its not just about the information being taken, its about what they do with it. Steam and Blizzard never ban anyone for having a program installed in their PC. Emphasis on never. _Never_. Um, but the players were not banned just for having it installed. They were banned for running it together with gw2 for a considerable amount of time (so basically not just accidentally forgotting to close it every now and then).. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > @"Polarfairy.8046" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Solidius.5146" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Polarfairy.8046" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > I generally have no sympathy for people who cheat in any game, i just don't see the need to risk your account on any game that you love to maybe make things slightly easier for yourself but anger other players in the process and put your friends accounts in danger if they play with you on a regular basis and get caught up in your ban. I do not count dps meters as cheating or mods that change your UI and as you can see, neither do Anet. As a company they do what they need to do to make sure their game is fair for everyone and if that means monitoring the programs running on my system then I don't mind, it's not like they are hunting for any information worth keeping that could be damaging to my identity or online safety. If you use cheat programs then you deserve to get banned, even if you weren't using them in this particular game at this point in time, you have them installed and Anet has no way of knowing if you ever plan to use them in the future, so out you go. Hopefully in 6 months you will either have learned your lesson and uninstalled said programs or moved on to other games which is no big loss to the rest of us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have knives in your kitchen? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about owning the knife! it was about having the knife with you whilst playing. Its not against the law to have one in the home but If you leave your home with a knife and get searched whether it was used or not it's still intent and an offence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > uhm... no. You can't punish me for having knife in my pocket until I actually use it commiting a crime. Just like cheatengine. Well they know some people used it. But they didn't check if it was used to modify GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually you can be punished for having a knife in your pocket, it's called an arrest on possession of weapons. It is illegal to carry a weapon without a good reason and it's illegal to carry a banned weapon so your metaphor isn't really working for you there ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not illegal to carry a knife in your pocket everywhere. And not all knives are illegal even in places which restrict some blades (such as by length). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not even illegal, everywhere, to have a gun in your pocket (so long as you have a concealed carry license). > > > > > > > > > > > > actually that depends on the type of knife, e.g in britain it is in fact illegal to carry certain types of knives. so think of illegal types of knives = games specifically design to cheat and your golden. > > > > > > > > > > But cheat engine isn't just for cheating in games. The police will investigate further e.g ask why you have the knife on you and if you have a good reason e.g on the way home from work they will understand and you can move on > > > > > > > > no, in britain certain knives are illegal and intent is irrelevant. You run a program called i love bunnies that counts cute bunnies for you alongside GW2 and your fine. If you run a process that is specifically designed to cheat alongside GW2, then there is a high probability you cheat at games. > > > > > > Not in my experience with police in the UK. But again cheat engine isn't specifically designed to cheat in games, a lot of people use it with CEMU (Game emulator) to change the FPS lock or target in the games they are emulating. Now if someone was playing with their emulator while waiting for a world boss to spawn or something else they have been banned when they were doing nothing wrong. > > > > > > This is why ANET should've taken more time and invested each account caught with cheat engine individually nothing was stopping them from doing that. > > > > Then you may want to take a look at knife law in UK.. size matters is all I'm saying, why do you think there is an age restriction on the sale on that kind of stuff.. > > > > As for looking.. they have and its not just about cheat engine, but this has developed into a complete S J W crusade and likely to create that smokescreen when the facts are simple ANET used methods and processes to detect hackers and cheats, and snagged some - it was not based on guesswork and that's the bottom line. > > They did not look into it deep enough like i quoted to you earlier > >. 1516 accounts were suspended because we detected that the accounts were running Guild Wars 2 at the same time as one or more of the following programs > > Just because a user has cheat engine open doesn't mean they are using it maliciously. OMG.. how many times do you need it stated to you.. those bans were not just for cheat engine they were across one, some and all of those.. stop thinking cheat engine is the only crime here it's not add to that its not just about having it open in that particular instance this is something that was monitored over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoodi.5849 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > @"Euryon.9248" said: > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > more obtrusive data gathering than Anet does now and more accuracy > > > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > less obtrusive data gathering and less accuracy > > > > > > > > > > > > or what they are doing now. > > > > > > > > > > > > WHAT DO YOU WANT? > > > > > > > > > > I want ANET to actually investigate accounts properly which we know they already have the tools to do instead of just making wild accusations based on assumptions > > > > > > > > HOW EXACTLY? > > > > > > > > more FACTS, less FACTS or as they do just now? > > > > > > What facts? Suspending for a user for having cheat engine open without evidence of them using it maliciously is not a good enough reason to ban users. > > > > It absolutely is. > > indeed. What was the probable intent (to a high level of probability) and using cheating programs means an extremely high probability you are in fact a cheater. > > Being able to make informed decisions about player behavior on a client pc requires access to client pc information. Either Anet have gathered too much, too little or just enough. getting heated here so i'm out to cooldown, if peopleare going to dodge simple simple questions like that to win arguments on a thread then you will get nowhere. > > for the record, im happy Anet does what they do and have no problems if the gather more because i trust that the intent is in fact to remove cheaters. Not a cheat program and i have already given a dozen examples of legitimate uses for cheat engine but you keep ignoring them while being ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezekan.2671 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"fireanne.7682" said: > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > Its not just about the information being taken, its about what they do with it. Steam and Blizzard never ban anyone for having a program installed in their PC. Emphasis on never. _Never_. > > Um, but the players were not banned just for having it installed. They were banned for running it together with gw2 for a considerable amount of time (so basically not just accidentally forgotting to close it every now and then).. > They wouldn't do even that. And they allow appeals AND they show you proof when you do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoodi.5849 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Polarfairy.8046" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Solidius.5146" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Polarfairy.8046" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > I generally have no sympathy for people who cheat in any game, i just don't see the need to risk your account on any game that you love to maybe make things slightly easier for yourself but anger other players in the process and put your friends accounts in danger if they play with you on a regular basis and get caught up in your ban. I do not count dps meters as cheating or mods that change your UI and as you can see, neither do Anet. As a company they do what they need to do to make sure their game is fair for everyone and if that means monitoring the programs running on my system then I don't mind, it's not like they are hunting for any information worth keeping that could be damaging to my identity or online safety. If you use cheat programs then you deserve to get banned, even if you weren't using them in this particular game at this point in time, you have them installed and Anet has no way of knowing if you ever plan to use them in the future, so out you go. Hopefully in 6 months you will either have learned your lesson and uninstalled said programs or moved on to other games which is no big loss to the rest of us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have knives in your kitchen? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about owning the knife! it was about having the knife with you whilst playing. Its not against the law to have one in the home but If you leave your home with a knife and get searched whether it was used or not it's still intent and an offence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > uhm... no. You can't punish me for having knife in my pocket until I actually use it commiting a crime. Just like cheatengine. Well they know some people used it. But they didn't check if it was used to modify GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually you can be punished for having a knife in your pocket, it's called an arrest on possession of weapons. It is illegal to carry a weapon without a good reason and it's illegal to carry a banned weapon so your metaphor isn't really working for you there ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not illegal to carry a knife in your pocket everywhere. And not all knives are illegal even in places which restrict some blades (such as by length). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not even illegal, everywhere, to have a gun in your pocket (so long as you have a concealed carry license). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > actually that depends on the type of knife, e.g in britain it is in fact illegal to carry certain types of knives. so think of illegal types of knives = games specifically design to cheat and your golden. > > > > > > > > > > > > But cheat engine isn't just for cheating in games. The police will investigate further e.g ask why you have the knife on you and if you have a good reason e.g on the way home from work they will understand and you can move on > > > > > > > > > > no, in britain certain knives are illegal and intent is irrelevant. You run a program called i love bunnies that counts cute bunnies for you alongside GW2 and your fine. If you run a process that is specifically designed to cheat alongside GW2, then there is a high probability you cheat at games. > > > > > > > > Not in my experience with police in the UK. But again cheat engine isn't specifically designed to cheat in games, a lot of people use it with CEMU (Game emulator) to change the FPS lock or target in the games they are emulating. Now if someone was playing with their emulator while waiting for a world boss to spawn or something else they have been banned when they were doing nothing wrong. > > > > > > > > This is why ANET should've taken more time and invested each account caught with cheat engine individually nothing was stopping them from doing that. > > > > > > Then you may want to take a look at knife law in UK.. size matters is all I'm saying, why do you think there is an age restriction on the sale on that kind of stuff.. > > > > > > As for looking.. they have and its not just about cheat engine, but this has developed into a complete S J W crusade and likely to create that smokescreen when the facts are simple ANET used methods and processes to detect hackers and cheats, and snagged some - it was not based on guesswork and that's the bottom line. > > > > They did not look into it deep enough like i quoted to you earlier > > >. 1516 accounts were suspended because we detected that the accounts were running Guild Wars 2 at the same time as one or more of the following programs > > > > Just because a user has cheat engine open doesn't mean they are using it maliciously. > > OMG.. how many times do you need it stated to you.. those bans were not just for cheat engine they were across one, some and all of those.. stop thinking cheat engine is the only crime here it's not add to that its not just about having it open in that particular instance this is something that was monitored over time. I don't care about them banning for the other programs because from what i have been told they were specifically created to cheat in guild wars 2. My problem is that i know for a fact cheat engine is not soley used or created for cheating in guild wars 2 or any other video game and cheat engine has legitimate uses. For ANET to suspend users for 6 months just for having the program installed without doing any further investigations is wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahnog.8795 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 When I was a boy I was told if I played with fire don't be surprised when you get burned. Cheat in this game or any game, don't be surprised by the ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireanne.7682 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > @"fireanne.7682" said: > > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > Its not just about the information being taken, its about what they do with it. Steam and Blizzard never ban anyone for having a program installed in their PC. Emphasis on never. _Never_. > > > > Um, but the players were not banned just for having it installed. They were banned for running it together with gw2 for a considerable amount of time (so basically not just accidentally forgotting to close it every now and then).. > > > > They wouldn't do even that. And they allow appeals AND they show you proof when you do so. No? [https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20761817337?page=2](https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20761817337?page=2 "https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20761817337?page=2") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezekan.2671 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"fireanne.7682" said: > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > @"fireanne.7682" said: > > > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > > Its not just about the information being taken, its about what they do with it. Steam and Blizzard never ban anyone for having a program installed in their PC. Emphasis on never. _Never_. > > > > > > Um, but the players were not banned just for having it installed. They were banned for running it together with gw2 for a considerable amount of time (so basically not just accidentally forgotting to close it every now and then).. > > > > > > > They wouldn't do even that. And they allow appeals AND they show you proof when you do so. > > No? > [https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20761817337?page=2](https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20761817337?page=2 "https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20761817337?page=2") That's just one random thread. Blizzard is very through and clean when it comes to suspending cheaters.The warden kicks you from the game when the cheat engine is open, it does not ban you. He most likely surpassed that somehow and injected it to the game. I wouldn't recommend trying it, but you can look it up. The warden kicks you from the game over and over and unless you find a way to inject it, it won't ban you. I was kicked once because it was left open, but never banned. my WoW account is 8 years old. When you are kicked the warden actually warns you about not running cheat engine with WoW and its displayed as a message. Its not even that threatening. Its a friendly warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > more obtrusive data gathering than Anet does now and more accuracy > > > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > less obtrusive data gathering and less accuracy > > > > > > > > > > > > or what they are doing now. > > > > > > > > > > > > WHAT DO YOU WANT? > > > > > > > > > > I want ANET to actually investigate accounts properly which we know they already have the tools to do instead of just making wild accusations based on assumptions > > > > > > > > HOW EXACTLY? > > > > > > > > more FACTS, less FACTS or as they do just now? > > > > > > What facts? Suspending for a user for having cheat engine open without evidence of them using it maliciously is not a good enough reason to ban users. > > > > Again.. please enlighten us as to how you arrived at that assumption stop feeding of other posters assumptions and provide your evidence to show how your investigation has proven your conspiracy theory here. > > If ANET have just banned players without any kind of due process and due diligence and you can prove that then put your money where your conspiracy theories sit and go full angry mode. > > Otherwise its just you pushing heresay and conjecture out for effect. > > The fact that they deleted their tweet about the bans and amateurishly revealed their method of detection speaks volumes. Also Anet has the slowest support reply time of all MMOs and they said "no appeals" meaning they did no due diligence or process, or they would be open to share it. They already revealed their method, not that it was hidden, other people realized their method sooner than their announcement. Here you go again making baseless accusations.. share that proof they have the slowest support reply times of any MMO.. not that it is in anyway related to this topic. How does saying "no appeals" prove they did no due process or diligence".. if you have worked in that area for as long as I have you would absolutely be thinking to make such a statement they must of gone through due process and due diligence. I am sure if you can put a case together will real facts and evidence ANET will likely share what they did and found and how the decision was arrived at, but that's between you and them. However, of course if you are indeed still found to be "less than upstanding" I would fully support ANET putting that out here for us all to see. What they revealed was something, but they would never in a million years disclose everything about their detection methods, criteria, process etc.. that would be just plain stupid on their part and the hackdevs would have a field day rushing to revise their hacks quicker than they already are/have.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > Windows was already on (most of) our computers. If windows was all they needed to act as "spyware" then why covertly install anything else. The API has to be invoked to collect the data. GW2 doesn't normally do it, although other software uses this regularly. As to why it was covert? Obviously to catch people rather than risk the developers of the cheatware making the programs harder to detect. Again, I don't endorse what they did. I'm trying to point out it's nothing new, nothing surprising, and it's not hard to see why they did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezekan.2671 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 The cheat engine ban cases need be reviewed. I also want a game without cheaters, so ban everyone who use the other programs with prejudice. I somewhat doubt cheat engine can even be used on GW2, unless Anet's protection of their game is as bad as their costumer support and their respect for them. Because cheat engine is a rather simple and broad tool when compared to rest of the programs that are advanced and very specificly made to hack multiplayer games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > @"fireanne.7682" said: > > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > Its not just about the information being taken, its about what they do with it. Steam and Blizzard never ban anyone for having a program installed in their PC. Emphasis on never. _Never_. > > > > Um, but the players were not banned just for having it installed. They were banned for running it together with gw2 for a considerable amount of time (so basically not just accidentally forgotting to close it every now and then).. > > > > They wouldn't do even that. And they allow appeals AND they show you proof when you do so. We can all google and find uses for things like cheat engine... the real question is - what were the individuals using it for whilst running gw2 when it is aknown application that can be used maliciously.. perhaps all those accounts were debugging there grannies new apple pie recipe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Polarfairy.8046" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Solidius.5146" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Kheldorn.5123" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Polarfairy.8046" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I generally have no sympathy for people who cheat in any game, i just don't see the need to risk your account on any game that you love to maybe make things slightly easier for yourself but anger other players in the process and put your friends accounts in danger if they play with you on a regular basis and get caught up in your ban. I do not count dps meters as cheating or mods that change your UI and as you can see, neither do Anet. As a company they do what they need to do to make sure their game is fair for everyone and if that means monitoring the programs running on my system then I don't mind, it's not like they are hunting for any information worth keeping that could be damaging to my identity or online safety. If you use cheat programs then you deserve to get banned, even if you weren't using them in this particular game at this point in time, you have them installed and Anet has no way of knowing if you ever plan to use them in the future, so out you go. Hopefully in 6 months you will either have learned your lesson and uninstalled said programs or moved on to other games which is no big loss to the rest of us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Do you have knives in your kitchen? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was never about owning the knife! it was about having the knife with you whilst playing. Its not against the law to have one in the home but If you leave your home with a knife and get searched whether it was used or not it's still intent and an offence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > uhm... no. You can't punish me for having knife in my pocket until I actually use it commiting a crime. Just like cheatengine. Well they know some people used it. But they didn't check if it was used to modify GW2. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually you can be punished for having a knife in your pocket, it's called an arrest on possession of weapons. It is illegal to carry a weapon without a good reason and it's illegal to carry a banned weapon so your metaphor isn't really working for you there ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It is not illegal to carry a knife in your pocket everywhere. And not all knives are illegal even in places which restrict some blades (such as by length). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its not even illegal, everywhere, to have a gun in your pocket (so long as you have a concealed carry license). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > actually that depends on the type of knife, e.g in britain it is in fact illegal to carry certain types of knives. so think of illegal types of knives = games specifically design to cheat and your golden. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But cheat engine isn't just for cheating in games. The police will investigate further e.g ask why you have the knife on you and if you have a good reason e.g on the way home from work they will understand and you can move on > > > > > > > > > > > > no, in britain certain knives are illegal and intent is irrelevant. You run a program called i love bunnies that counts cute bunnies for you alongside GW2 and your fine. If you run a process that is specifically designed to cheat alongside GW2, then there is a high probability you cheat at games. > > > > > > > > > > Not in my experience with police in the UK. But again cheat engine isn't specifically designed to cheat in games, a lot of people use it with CEMU (Game emulator) to change the FPS lock or target in the games they are emulating. Now if someone was playing with their emulator while waiting for a world boss to spawn or something else they have been banned when they were doing nothing wrong. > > > > > > > > > > This is why ANET should've taken more time and invested each account caught with cheat engine individually nothing was stopping them from doing that. > > > > > > > > Then you may want to take a look at knife law in UK.. size matters is all I'm saying, why do you think there is an age restriction on the sale on that kind of stuff.. > > > > > > > > As for looking.. they have and its not just about cheat engine, but this has developed into a complete S J W crusade and likely to create that smokescreen when the facts are simple ANET used methods and processes to detect hackers and cheats, and snagged some - it was not based on guesswork and that's the bottom line. > > > > > > They did not look into it deep enough like i quoted to you earlier > > > >. 1516 accounts were suspended because we detected that the accounts were running Guild Wars 2 at the same time as one or more of the following programs > > > > > > Just because a user has cheat engine open doesn't mean they are using it maliciously. > > > > OMG.. how many times do you need it stated to you.. those bans were not just for cheat engine they were across one, some and all of those.. stop thinking cheat engine is the only crime here it's not add to that its not just about having it open in that particular instance this is something that was monitored over time. > > I don't care about them banning for the other programs because from what i have been told they were specifically created to cheat in guild wars 2. My problem is that i know for a fact cheat engine is not soley used or created for cheating in guild wars 2 or any other video game and cheat engine has legitimate uses. For ANET to suspend users for 6 months just for having the program installed without doing any further investigations is wrong Like I said.. you do not know other than guessing what investigations were carried out by anet.. and your not going to find out from them on this forum -- the sooner you slot that thought into your conspiracy theory the sooner you might begin to think beyond the assumptions of others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezekan.2671 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > more obtrusive data gathering than Anet does now and more accuracy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less obtrusive data gathering and less accuracy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or what they are doing now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WHAT DO YOU WANT? > > > > > > > > > > > > I want ANET to actually investigate accounts properly which we know they already have the tools to do instead of just making wild accusations based on assumptions > > > > > > > > > > HOW EXACTLY? > > > > > > > > > > more FACTS, less FACTS or as they do just now? > > > > > > > > What facts? Suspending for a user for having cheat engine open without evidence of them using it maliciously is not a good enough reason to ban users. > > > > > > Again.. please enlighten us as to how you arrived at that assumption stop feeding of other posters assumptions and provide your evidence to show how your investigation has proven your conspiracy theory here. > > > If ANET have just banned players without any kind of due process and due diligence and you can prove that then put your money where your conspiracy theories sit and go full angry mode. > > > Otherwise its just you pushing heresay and conjecture out for effect. > > > > The fact that they deleted their tweet about the bans and amateurishly revealed their method of detection speaks volumes. Also Anet has the slowest support reply time of all MMOs and they said "no appeals" meaning they did no due diligence or process, or they would be open to share it. They already revealed their method, not that it was hidden, other people realized their method sooner than their announcement. > > Here you go again making baseless accusations.. share that proof they have the slowest support reply times of any MMO.. not that it is in anyway related to this topic. > How does saying "no appeals" prove they did no due process or diligence".. if you have worked in that area for as long as I have you would absolutely be thinking to make such a statement they must of gone through due process and due diligence. > I am sure if you can put a case together will real facts and evidence ANET will likely share what they did and found and how the decision was arrived at, but that's between you and them. However, of course if you are indeed still found to be "less than upstanding" I would fully support ANET putting that out here for us all to see. > What they revealed was something, but they would never in a million years disclose everything about their detection methods, criteria, process etc.. that would be just plain stupid on their part and the hackdevs would have a field day rushing to revise their hacks quicker than they already are/have.. Wake up, they already have. They can never catch cheaters again with this method. As we speak, the hackers are improving their tools to counter this sort of detection. I have played quite a bit of MMOs, none of them have average response time of 7 days. If you know of one, I'm all years. Even if you do, their response times are still quite long. Much longer than acceptable levels. The fact that they lied initially with their suspensions speaks volumes. Their initial response did not mention they banned everyone who merely had this applications. There goes the transparency and honesty. They have made mistakes in the past, big ones, when it comes to bans, yet they have the audacity to claim they are absolutely right and don't allow appeals. Its ultimately ab a bad policy and not something you'd expect from someone who have done their homework. Its obvious from how they handled the situation already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodstealer.5978 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > The cheat engine ban cases need be reviewed. I also want a game without cheaters, so ban everyone who use the other programs with prejudice. > > I somewhat doubt cheat engine can even be used on GW2, unless Anet's protection of their game is as bad as their costumer support and their respect for them. Because cheat engine is a rather simple and broad tool when compared to rest of the programs that are advanced and very specificly made to hack multiplayer games. So.. lets go all the way back about 10 pages and try again. Why did you and "your friend" download and install cheat engine? what do you use it for that its ruining alongside GW2 not just at the time, but over a period of time? Now gather your thoughts, and actually counter with some actual detail for us to begin thinking "actually this poster might have a case".. until then you got snagged, suck it up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illconceived Was Na.9781 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > ...i have already given a dozen examples of legitimate uses for cheat engine You have? I must have missed it. The only "legit" uses I can imagine are for single player games: * You have a save-game that is corrupted; _Cheat Engine_ can be used to fix it and the game is too old for support. * You encountered a game-stopping bug; ditto. There are some gray area uses: * Bored with a single player's game gold grind or other aspects and want to finish. * Don't really care to play game legit. And a narrow niche of software analysis: e.g. reverse engineering and such. Although one could argue: if that's what you want to do, you can (and probably should) do it on an isolated machine to prevent any confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > > more obtrusive data gathering than Anet does now and more accuracy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > less obtrusive data gathering and less accuracy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or what they are doing now. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > WHAT DO YOU WANT? > > > > > > > > > > > > I want ANET to actually investigate accounts properly which we know they already have the tools to do instead of just making wild accusations based on assumptions > > > > > > > > > > HOW EXACTLY? > > > > > > > > > > more FACTS, less FACTS or as they do just now? > > > > > > > > What facts? Suspending for a user for having cheat engine open without evidence of them using it maliciously is not a good enough reason to ban users. > > > > > > Again.. please enlighten us as to how you arrived at that assumption stop feeding of other posters assumptions and provide your evidence to show how your investigation has proven your conspiracy theory here. > > > If ANET have just banned players without any kind of due process and due diligence and you can prove that then put your money where your conspiracy theories sit and go full angry mode. > > > Otherwise its just you pushing heresay and conjecture out for effect. > > > > The fact that they deleted their tweet about the bans and amateurishly revealed their method of detection speaks volumes. Also Anet has the slowest support reply time of all MMOs and they said "no appeals" meaning they did no due diligence or process, or they would be open to share it. They already revealed their method, not that it was hidden, other people realized their method sooner than their announcement. > > Here you go again making baseless accusations.. share that proof they have the slowest support reply times of any MMO.. not that it is in anyway related to this topic. > How does saying "no appeals" prove they did no due process or diligence".. if you have worked in that area for as long as I have you would absolutely be thinking to make such a statement they must of gone through due process and due diligence. > I am sure if you can put a case together will real facts and evidence ANET will likely share what they did and found and how the decision was arrived at, but that's between you and them. However, of course if you are indeed still found to be "less than upstanding" I would fully support ANET putting that out here for us all to see. > What they revealed was something, but they would never in a million years disclose everything about their detection methods, criteria, process etc.. that would be just plain stupid on their part and the hackdevs would have a field day rushing to revise their hacks quicker than they already are/have.. It seems highly unlikely that ANet is perfect. Incapable of mistake. Comprised entirely of people who are themselves perfect. Incapable of mistake. And yet they announced that no appeals would be considered. This means that either: 1) they believe that they are infallible. Or 2) that they know that they are imperfect, can make mistakes, but are willing to punish the innocent without recourse anyway. Or 3) they knowingly made a false statement about not accepting appeals. Perhaps there is a fourth option that I dont see. But trusting statements from an organization that shows signs, perhaps unintentionally through miscommunication, of being delusional, immoral, or dishonest seems questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fireanne.7682 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > @"fireanne.7682" said: > > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > > @"fireanne.7682" said: > > > > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > > > Its not just about the information being taken, its about what they do with it. Steam and Blizzard never ban anyone for having a program installed in their PC. Emphasis on never. _Never_. > > > > > > > > Um, but the players were not banned just for having it installed. They were banned for running it together with gw2 for a considerable amount of time (so basically not just accidentally forgotting to close it every now and then).. > > > > > > > > > > They wouldn't do even that. And they allow appeals AND they show you proof when you do so. > > > > No? > > [https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20761817337?page=2](https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20761817337?page=2 "https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20761817337?page=2") > > That's just one random thread. Blizzard is very through and clean when it comes to suspending cheaters.The warden kicks you from the game when the cheat engine is open, it does not ban you. He most likely surpassed that somehow and injected it to the game. > > I wouldn't recommend trying it, but you can look it up. The warden kicks you from the game over and over and unless you find a way to inject it, it won't ban you. I was kicked once because it was left open, but never banned. my WoW account is 8 years old. When you are kicked the warden actually warns you about not running cheat engine with WoW and its displayed as a message. Its not even that threatening. Its a friendly warning. Well, the only reaction that comes to my mind to this is - is the double standard here really only clear to me? When it's random people you don't know at another thread, they surely used the Cheat engine to cheat, but when it is random people you do not know here, they surely only had it running...? The example you are giving of your own experience here is not exactly ideal here since you only left it open once and were kicked for it... Anet did not ban people for just forgetting it running once. I rather suspect the people mentioned in the thread possibly saw such a message and dismissed it as "it's not like I'm gonna be banned" sort of thing. That being said, a warning in-game would definitely be great, I totally agree, that would be better. Or even kicking as a warning as you experienced would be a good warning. That is a nice courtesy from Blizzard. But it doesn't change the fact the the bannable offense is exactly the same. ^^; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatiss.3281 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Yasi.9065" said: > > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said: > > Hello, > > > > I wanted to be sure that folks who are following or participating in this thread are aware that we've provided a lot of additional information this evening in [this post](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/476255/#Comment_476255 "this thread"). I hope that in reading that update, you'll find your questions are answered. > > This is a disgrace. You just admitted to: > > a) snooping around on my computer, gathering AND SENDING data to your own servers to do who knows what with > b) suspending people for having a program running in the background and NOT having other evidence of them ACTUALLY cheating in gw2 > c) being unable to stop hackers without using such underhanded methods. > > No, Ive not been suspended. Thankfully due to security risks I have to do my debugging work on a separate computer. if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its probably a duck. I for one, want clean games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimpology.6234 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Vegeta.9670" said: > > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said: > > Hello, > > > > I wanted to be sure that folks who are following or participating in this thread are aware that we've provided a lot of additional information this evening in [this post](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/476255/#Comment_476255 "this thread"). I hope that in reading that update, you'll find your questions are answered. > > " CheatEngine " Just because this is running on someone's system doesn't mean its being used in Guild Wars 2. What about other games? If you have something called "cheatengine" running on your pc while GW2 is running. it taints you. You should know better. YOu clearly use a program with cheat in the title to cheat on games. Whether you used it in gw2 or not doesn't matter. If they detected it running but you"weren't using it" why do you even have it installed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Healix.5819 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > For ANET to suspend users for 6 months just for having the program installed without doing any further investigations is wrong They do log everything you do in-game and are capable of watching a replay of what you were doing. They probably planned on saving resources by only investigating those who contact support, or maybe that's what they're doing right now after becoming such a hot topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezekan.2671 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said: > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > The cheat engine ban cases need be reviewed. I also want a game without cheaters, so ban everyone who use the other programs with prejudice. > > > > I somewhat doubt cheat engine can even be used on GW2, unless Anet's protection of their game is as bad as their costumer support and their respect for them. Because cheat engine is a rather simple and broad tool when compared to rest of the programs that are advanced and very specificly made to hack multiplayer games. > > So.. lets go all the way back about 10 pages and try again. > > Why did you and "your friend" download and install cheat engine? > what do you use it for that its ruining alongside GW2 not just at the time, but over a period of time? > > Now gather your thoughts, and actually counter with some actual detail for us to begin thinking "actually this poster might have a case".. until then you got snagged, suck it up I DID NOT RUN IT ALONGSIDE GW2. I have told you several times now. I merely have it in my PC. I have been playing GW2 for a month now and I have not opened cheat engine in that time period. As for my friend, I can give you his ID so that you can ask him yourself. I don't care to ask people personal questions. He has made his own ticket and he will get his own answer. I'm concerned about my own case. I simply did not run any of the programs in the month that I was playing and I expect proof from Anet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chatiss.3281 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Yasi.9065" said: > > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said: > > Hello, > > > > I wanted to be sure that folks who are following or participating in this thread are aware that we've provided a lot of additional information this evening in [this post](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/476255/#Comment_476255 "this thread"). I hope that in reading that update, you'll find your questions are answered. > > This is a disgrace. You just admitted to: > > a) snooping around on my computer, gathering AND SENDING data to your own servers to do who knows what with > b) suspending people for having a program running in the background and NOT having other evidence of them ACTUALLY cheating in gw2 > c) being unable to stop hackers without using such underhanded methods. > > No, Ive not been suspended. Thankfully due to security risks I have to do my debugging work on a separate computer. so what you are saying is that the hackers have more rights than the users who have to put up with cheaters. I am glad arenanet took action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Pimpology.6234" said: > > @"Vegeta.9670" said: > > > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said: > > > Hello, > > > > > > I wanted to be sure that folks who are following or participating in this thread are aware that we've provided a lot of additional information this evening in [this post](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/476255/#Comment_476255 "this thread"). I hope that in reading that update, you'll find your questions are answered. > > > > " CheatEngine " Just because this is running on someone's system doesn't mean its being used in Guild Wars 2. What about other games? > > If you have something called "cheatengine" running on your pc while GW2 is running. it taints you. You should know better. YOu clearly use a program with cheat in the title to cheat on games. Whether you used it in gw2 or not doesn't matter. If they detected it running but you"weren't using it" why do you even have it installed? You have a program with the word War in the title on your computer. Private citizens are not, in western countries, legally permitted to engage in acts of war. Should you be imprisoned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinks.2057 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > > > @"vesica tempestas.1563" said: > > > > > > @"Nezekan.2671" said: > > > > > > We should never drop this in my opinion. I certainly won't. I was NOT running any of the listed programs when I was playing GW2, I only had cheat engine installed, and that's it. In fact I haven't run it in quite a while. I need proof that one of these apps was running in the same time I was running the game, then I will stop. My account is a month old, so it should be easy enough. > > > > > > > > > > mmmhmm, so their process for scanning running processes accidentally turned into a process that scans your directories for files did it? how does that work! > > > > > > > > You never had anything of substance to say anyway, so continue your white knighting. > > > > > > > > And I don't know. I only know that I didn't run it in the month that I was playing GW2. Its that simple. > > > > > > well i can tell you its impossible, unless code metamorphosis at runtime ofc, or they are lying ofc. > > > > They lied once already, why not again? > > They can lie all they want but if you don't break the terms of the agreement, it doesn't matter. And this is where your argument falls flat. They didn't break the terms of the agreement if they didn't cheat. Having something open or running is none of Anet's business if it doesn't effect their product Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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