Ardenwolfe.8590 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > If ANet was sloppy, then those players running any cheat program while playing an MMO were equally as sloppy. Either way you slice it, caught is caught and hardly makes those players innocent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody has argued otherwise, but until after they were suspended they were not told or aware that you were not allowed to run cheat engine at the time as guild wars 2. Nobody was caught doing anything wrong because cheat engine is not inherently bad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, that's not even close to correct. Anyone that plays this game agrees to the terms and it's pretty clear 3rd party software is not allowed. They don't need to be told more than that; there is an expectation for a level of maturity and responsibility on the players part to understand what rules, restrictions and limits are involved when they sign up for this game service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're mindset is irresponsible ... so if you aren't caught doing something, it's not wrong? I can see you have very little reason to be listened to at this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If i recall how to use cheat engine, you had to inject it into a program before it can do anything. If its a program that can potentially cheat but they haven't got any evidence on the player cheating they need to just flag the account and do further investigation not ban with no remorse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You almost make it sound like Anet doesn't own the accounts that they took action on and need to PROVE to the player why they were banned. That's amusing to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, what further investigation do you think should be done ... have a bunch of Anet employees sit around and watch the account in question play the game and hope they cheat? You do realize that's highly impractical no? All these calls for 'further investigation' makes it sound like you think the outcome woudl be different? makes it sound like you even have a clue of what they did and didn't do ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except you don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's called hiring GM's with invisible mode on and watch the suspected players. Games like WoW, and many other do this why cant Anet do it? > > > > > > > > > > > > Because they're busy creating content for a very hungry community desperate for it? The ironic part is I had a GM watch me solo a champion in the core game years ago before any expansion. I have no doubt players reported me for hacking because I repeatedly soloed the champion for loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > Exchange went like this: > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: How's it going? > > > > > > > > > > > > Me: Good. You? > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: Good. Mind if I watch you? > > > > > > > > > > > > Me: No worries. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > Five minutes later. . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: Have a nice day. ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > But, seriously, you can't expect GMs to watch all people all the time. It's just not effective. > > > > > > > > > > This is a prime example of a GM wasting their time. I'm not saying GM should watch all players. Just players that are flagged for suspicion of hacking. They should NEVER reveal they are watching you. > > > > > > > > Um . . . you asked for GMs to do this, and then you say they're wasting time doing it. So . . . which one is it now? Besides, that wasn't the point of me telling you that story. :) > > > > > > I'm asking GM's to investigate flagged accounts not showing up and go "Mind if i watch you" Of course people will either log off or stop cheating completely if they had a GM show up. > > > > My account was flagged, the GM watched me while invisible, then he announced himself to see if my behavior would change . . . and it didn't. He did exactly what you're asking them to do. Let's not rewrite history. You asked for GMs to _watch_ players for suspicious activity. Done and done. > > > > Doesn't get clearer than that as far as what you're asking. > > Yes but in this case they didn't and that is why people are complaining Let me understand this correctly. You want them to now watch over 1000 individual accounts flagged for cheating to see if said cheaters are cheating as opposed to seeing if a cheating program is running on their computer at the same time as the gaming program all at once? How about instead not running said cheating program at the same time as the game? Seriously, please stop asking ANet to be more responsible than you are. This really is getting silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardenwolfe.8590 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > If ANet was sloppy, then those players running any cheat program while playing an MMO were equally as sloppy. Either way you slice it, caught is caught and hardly makes those players innocent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody has argued otherwise, but until after they were suspended they were not told or aware that you were not allowed to run cheat engine at the time as guild wars 2. Nobody was caught doing anything wrong because cheat engine is not inherently bad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, that's not even close to correct. Anyone that plays this game agrees to the terms and it's pretty clear 3rd party software is not allowed. They don't need to be told more than that; there is an expectation for a level of maturity and responsibility on the players part to understand what rules, restrictions and limits are involved when they sign up for this game service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're mindset is irresponsible ... so if you aren't caught doing something, it's not wrong? I can see you have very little reason to be listened to at this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If i recall how to use cheat engine, you had to inject it into a program before it can do anything. If its a program that can potentially cheat but they haven't got any evidence on the player cheating they need to just flag the account and do further investigation not ban with no remorse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You almost make it sound like Anet doesn't own the accounts that they took action on and need to PROVE to the player why they were banned. That's amusing to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, what further investigation do you think should be done ... have a bunch of Anet employees sit around and watch the account in question play the game and hope they cheat? You do realize that's highly impractical no? All these calls for 'further investigation' makes it sound like you think the outcome woudl be different? makes it sound like you even have a clue of what they did and didn't do ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except you don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's called hiring GM's with invisible mode on and watch the suspected players. Games like WoW, and many other do this why cant Anet do it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because they're busy creating content for a very hungry community desperate for it? The ironic part is I had a GM watch me solo a champion in the core game years ago before any expansion. I have no doubt players reported me for hacking because I repeatedly soloed the champion for loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exchange went like this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: How's it going? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me: Good. You? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: Good. Mind if I watch you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me: No worries. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Five minutes later. . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: Have a nice day. ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, seriously, you can't expect GMs to watch all people all the time. It's just not effective. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a prime example of a GM wasting their time. I'm not saying GM should watch all players. Just players that are flagged for suspicion of hacking. They should NEVER reveal they are watching you. > > > > > > > > > > Um . . . you asked for GMs to do this, and then you say they're wasting time doing it. So . . . which one is it now? Besides, that wasn't the point of me telling you that story. :) > > > > > > > > I'm asking GM's to investigate flagged accounts not showing up and go "Mind if i watch you" Of course people will either log off or stop cheating completely if they had a GM show up. > > > > > > My account was flagged, the GM watched me while invisible, then he announced himself to see if my behavior would change . . . and it didn't. He did exactly what you're asking them to do. Let's not rewrite history. You asked for GMs to _watch_ players for suspicious activity. Done and done. > > > > > > Doesn't get clearer than that as far as what you're asking. > > > > Yes but in this case they didn't and that is why people are complaining > > Really? You expected a nice personal greeting from a GM asking you if it would be OK for you stop cheating? Obviously, that 'personal touch' wasn't a very practical approach in this situation, so expecting it was a little silly. Seriously. I know things have gotten strange these days, but silly wasn't the word I was thinking much less wanted to actually use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > @"artemis.6781" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If ANet was sloppy, then those players running any cheat program while playing an MMO were equally as sloppy. Either way you slice it, caught is caught and hardly makes those players innocent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody has argued otherwise, but until after they were suspended they were not told or aware that you were not allowed to run cheat engine at the time as guild wars 2. Nobody was caught doing anything wrong because cheat engine is not inherently bad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, that's not even close to correct. Anyone that plays this game agrees to the terms and it's pretty clear 3rd party software is not allowed. They don't need to be told more than that; there is an expectation for a level of maturity and responsibility on the players part to understand what rules, restrictions and limits are involved when they sign up for this game service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're mindset is irresponsible ... so if you aren't caught doing something, it's not wrong? I can see you have very little reason to be listened to at this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If i recall how to use cheat engine, you had to inject it into a program before it can do anything. If its a program that can potentially cheat but they haven't got any evidence on the player cheating they need to just flag the account and do further investigation not ban with no remorse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You almost make it sound like Anet doesn't own the accounts that they took action on and need to PROVE to the player why they were banned. That's amusing to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, what further investigation do you think should be done ... have a bunch of Anet employees sit around and watch the account in question play the game and hope they cheat? You do realize that's highly impractical no? All these calls for 'further investigation' makes it sound like you think the outcome woudl be different? makes it sound like you even have a clue of what they did and didn't do ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except you don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's called hiring GM's with invisible mode on and watch the suspected players. Games like WoW, and many other do this why cant Anet do it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because they're busy creating content for a very hungry community desperate for it? The ironic part is I had a GM watch me solo a champion in the core game years ago before any expansion. I have no doubt players reported me for hacking because I repeatedly soloed the champion for loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exchange went like this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: How's it going? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me: Good. You? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: Good. Mind if I watch you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me: No worries. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Five minutes later. . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: Have a nice day. ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, seriously, you can't expect GMs to watch all people all the time. It's just not effective. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a prime example of a GM wasting their time. I'm not saying GM should watch all players. Just players that are flagged for suspicion of hacking. They should NEVER reveal they are watching you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then how do you know they aren't watching you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because innocent people were banned and they admitted in this case they didn't investigate further > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't mean Anet have GM's watching people ... you seem to misinterpret 'innocent'. I don't have the software, I wasn't banned ... so you're saying Anet just randomly chose a bunch of people and banned them? That makes no sense. > > > > > > > > > > You don't have the program or know what it's used for but just snap to HES GUILTY just cause it has "cheat" in it's programs name. > > > > > > > > I don't need to know the name or what it's used for. it's up to Anet to decide what is allowed or not; they own the accounts, they provide the service. > > > > > > Well now you know why people are riled up about this. Banning off assumption and not proof. We know they own the accounts but it doesn't make it right for how they are banning. > > > > No, I don't know ... I don't see anything that tells me Anet made any assumptions and don't have proof. > > So is that why Anet chose to hide the truth about the banning till they got exposed about the program they had sent out? > "1516 accounts were suspended because we detected that the accounts were running Guild Wars 2 at the same time as one or more of the following programs over a significant number of hours during a multi-week period earlier this year." > and why did chris cleary delete his post https://i.imgur.com/NJ5E3yF.png if they knew they didnt screw up? So you think the timing of their announcements and the information they shared or didn't makes you think that everyone should just assume they don't have proof and are basing the bans on assumptions? That makes no sense. Do you logically think Anet wants to ban 1500 accounts? Do you think that if any significant majority of those accounts weren't violating terms of service ... that they wouldn't work to see if no action should be taken on them? You don't really have a good idea of how this works as a business do you ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shikigami.4013 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > Yes but in this case they didn't and that is why people are complaining I find it odd that one of the most complaining persons (in regard of counts of posts in this thread, and that means you) only has a single thread in his profile, which happens to be a complaint about exploiters. One would assume that someone asking ArenaNet do to something against exploiters wouldn't be so angry when they actually do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoodi.5849 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > If ANet was sloppy, then those players running any cheat program while playing an MMO were equally as sloppy. Either way you slice it, caught is caught and hardly makes those players innocent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody has argued otherwise, but until after they were suspended they were not told or aware that you were not allowed to run cheat engine at the time as guild wars 2. Nobody was caught doing anything wrong because cheat engine is not inherently bad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, that's not even close to correct. Anyone that plays this game agrees to the terms and it's pretty clear 3rd party software is not allowed. They don't need to be told more than that; there is an expectation for a level of maturity and responsibility on the players part to understand what rules, restrictions and limits are involved when they sign up for this game service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're mindset is irresponsible ... so if you aren't caught doing something, it's not wrong? I can see you have very little reason to be listened to at this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If i recall how to use cheat engine, you had to inject it into a program before it can do anything. If its a program that can potentially cheat but they haven't got any evidence on the player cheating they need to just flag the account and do further investigation not ban with no remorse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You almost make it sound like Anet doesn't own the accounts that they took action on and need to PROVE to the player why they were banned. That's amusing to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, what further investigation do you think should be done ... have a bunch of Anet employees sit around and watch the account in question play the game and hope they cheat? You do realize that's highly impractical no? All these calls for 'further investigation' makes it sound like you think the outcome woudl be different? makes it sound like you even have a clue of what they did and didn't do ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except you don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's called hiring GM's with invisible mode on and watch the suspected players. Games like WoW, and many other do this why cant Anet do it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because they're busy creating content for a very hungry community desperate for it? The ironic part is I had a GM watch me solo a champion in the core game years ago before any expansion. I have no doubt players reported me for hacking because I repeatedly soloed the champion for loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exchange went like this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: How's it going? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me: Good. You? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: Good. Mind if I watch you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me: No worries. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Five minutes later. . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: Have a nice day. ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, seriously, you can't expect GMs to watch all people all the time. It's just not effective. > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a prime example of a GM wasting their time. I'm not saying GM should watch all players. Just players that are flagged for suspicion of hacking. They should NEVER reveal they are watching you. > > > > > > > > > > Um . . . you asked for GMs to do this, and then you say they're wasting time doing it. So . . . which one is it now? Besides, that wasn't the point of me telling you that story. :) > > > > > > > > I'm asking GM's to investigate flagged accounts not showing up and go "Mind if i watch you" Of course people will either log off or stop cheating completely if they had a GM show up. > > > > > > My account was flagged, the GM watched me while invisible, then he announced himself to see if my behavior would change . . . and it didn't. He did exactly what you're asking them to do. Let's not rewrite history. You asked for GMs to _watch_ players for suspicious activity. Done and done. > > > > > > Doesn't get clearer than that as far as what you're asking. > > > > Yes but in this case they didn't and that is why people are complaining > > Really? You expected a nice personal greeting from a GM asking you if it would be OK for you stop cheating? Obviously, that 'personal touch' wasn't a very practical approach in this situation, so expecting it was a little silly. No i want ANET to do what they usually do which is investigate accounts that are flagged individually and gather evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If ANet was sloppy, then those players running any cheat program while playing an MMO were equally as sloppy. Either way you slice it, caught is caught and hardly makes those players innocent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody has argued otherwise, but until after they were suspended they were not told or aware that you were not allowed to run cheat engine at the time as guild wars 2. Nobody was caught doing anything wrong because cheat engine is not inherently bad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, that's not even close to correct. Anyone that plays this game agrees to the terms and it's pretty clear 3rd party software is not allowed. They don't need to be told more than that; there is an expectation for a level of maturity and responsibility on the players part to understand what rules, restrictions and limits are involved when they sign up for this game service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're mindset is irresponsible ... so if you aren't caught doing something, it's not wrong? I can see you have very little reason to be listened to at this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If i recall how to use cheat engine, you had to inject it into a program before it can do anything. If its a program that can potentially cheat but they haven't got any evidence on the player cheating they need to just flag the account and do further investigation not ban with no remorse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You almost make it sound like Anet doesn't own the accounts that they took action on and need to PROVE to the player why they were banned. That's amusing to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, what further investigation do you think should be done ... have a bunch of Anet employees sit around and watch the account in question play the game and hope they cheat? You do realize that's highly impractical no? All these calls for 'further investigation' makes it sound like you think the outcome woudl be different? makes it sound like you even have a clue of what they did and didn't do ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except you don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's called hiring GM's with invisible mode on and watch the suspected players. Games like WoW, and many other do this why cant Anet do it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because they're busy creating content for a very hungry community desperate for it? The ironic part is I had a GM watch me solo a champion in the core game years ago before any expansion. I have no doubt players reported me for hacking because I repeatedly soloed the champion for loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exchange went like this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: How's it going? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me: Good. You? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: Good. Mind if I watch you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me: No worries. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Five minutes later. . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: Have a nice day. ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, seriously, you can't expect GMs to watch all people all the time. It's just not effective. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a prime example of a GM wasting their time. I'm not saying GM should watch all players. Just players that are flagged for suspicion of hacking. They should NEVER reveal they are watching you. > > > > > > > > > > > > Um . . . you asked for GMs to do this, and then you say they're wasting time doing it. So . . . which one is it now? Besides, that wasn't the point of me telling you that story. :) > > > > > > > > > > I'm asking GM's to investigate flagged accounts not showing up and go "Mind if i watch you" Of course people will either log off or stop cheating completely if they had a GM show up. > > > > > > > > My account was flagged, the GM watched me while invisible, then he announced himself to see if my behavior would change . . . and it didn't. He did exactly what you're asking them to do. Let's not rewrite history. You asked for GMs to _watch_ players for suspicious activity. Done and done. > > > > > > > > Doesn't get clearer than that as far as what you're asking. > > > > > > Yes but in this case they didn't and that is why people are complaining > > > > Really? You expected a nice personal greeting from a GM asking you if it would be OK for you stop cheating? Obviously, that 'personal touch' wasn't a very practical approach in this situation, so expecting it was a little silly. > > No i want ANET to do what they usually do which is investigate accounts that are flagged individually and gather evidence 1. You have no idea if they didn't do that. 2. You have no idea what they usually do either. 3. You **have** no idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoodi.5849 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If ANet was sloppy, then those players running any cheat program while playing an MMO were equally as sloppy. Either way you slice it, caught is caught and hardly makes those players innocent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody has argued otherwise, but until after they were suspended they were not told or aware that you were not allowed to run cheat engine at the time as guild wars 2. Nobody was caught doing anything wrong because cheat engine is not inherently bad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, that's not even close to correct. Anyone that plays this game agrees to the terms and it's pretty clear 3rd party software is not allowed. They don't need to be told more than that; there is an expectation for a level of maturity and responsibility on the players part to understand what rules, restrictions and limits are involved when they sign up for this game service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're mindset is irresponsible ... so if you aren't caught doing something, it's not wrong? I can see you have very little reason to be listened to at this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If i recall how to use cheat engine, you had to inject it into a program before it can do anything. If its a program that can potentially cheat but they haven't got any evidence on the player cheating they need to just flag the account and do further investigation not ban with no remorse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You almost make it sound like Anet doesn't own the accounts that they took action on and need to PROVE to the player why they were banned. That's amusing to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, what further investigation do you think should be done ... have a bunch of Anet employees sit around and watch the account in question play the game and hope they cheat? You do realize that's highly impractical no? All these calls for 'further investigation' makes it sound like you think the outcome woudl be different? makes it sound like you even have a clue of what they did and didn't do ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except you don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's called hiring GM's with invisible mode on and watch the suspected players. Games like WoW, and many other do this why cant Anet do it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because they're busy creating content for a very hungry community desperate for it? The ironic part is I had a GM watch me solo a champion in the core game years ago before any expansion. I have no doubt players reported me for hacking because I repeatedly soloed the champion for loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exchange went like this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: How's it going? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me: Good. You? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: Good. Mind if I watch you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me: No worries. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Five minutes later. . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: Have a nice day. ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, seriously, you can't expect GMs to watch all people all the time. It's just not effective. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a prime example of a GM wasting their time. I'm not saying GM should watch all players. Just players that are flagged for suspicion of hacking. They should NEVER reveal they are watching you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Um . . . you asked for GMs to do this, and then you say they're wasting time doing it. So . . . which one is it now? Besides, that wasn't the point of me telling you that story. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm asking GM's to investigate flagged accounts not showing up and go "Mind if i watch you" Of course people will either log off or stop cheating completely if they had a GM show up. > > > > > > > > > > My account was flagged, the GM watched me while invisible, then he announced himself to see if my behavior would change . . . and it didn't. He did exactly what you're asking them to do. Let's not rewrite history. You asked for GMs to _watch_ players for suspicious activity. Done and done. > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't get clearer than that as far as what you're asking. > > > > > > > > Yes but in this case they didn't and that is why people are complaining > > > > > > Really? You expected a nice personal greeting from a GM asking you if it would be OK for you stop cheating? Obviously, that 'personal touch' wasn't a very practical approach in this situation, so expecting it was a little silly. > > > > No i want ANET to do what they usually do which is investigate accounts that are flagged individually and gather evidence > > You have no idea if they didn't do that. Yes we do and i have quoted them many times admitting so > 1516 accounts were suspended because we detected that the accounts were running Guild Wars 2 at the same time as one or more of the following programs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If ANet was sloppy, then those players running any cheat program while playing an MMO were equally as sloppy. Either way you slice it, caught is caught and hardly makes those players innocent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody has argued otherwise, but until after they were suspended they were not told or aware that you were not allowed to run cheat engine at the time as guild wars 2. Nobody was caught doing anything wrong because cheat engine is not inherently bad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, that's not even close to correct. Anyone that plays this game agrees to the terms and it's pretty clear 3rd party software is not allowed. They don't need to be told more than that; there is an expectation for a level of maturity and responsibility on the players part to understand what rules, restrictions and limits are involved when they sign up for this game service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're mindset is irresponsible ... so if you aren't caught doing something, it's not wrong? I can see you have very little reason to be listened to at this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If i recall how to use cheat engine, you had to inject it into a program before it can do anything. If its a program that can potentially cheat but they haven't got any evidence on the player cheating they need to just flag the account and do further investigation not ban with no remorse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You almost make it sound like Anet doesn't own the accounts that they took action on and need to PROVE to the player why they were banned. That's amusing to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, what further investigation do you think should be done ... have a bunch of Anet employees sit around and watch the account in question play the game and hope they cheat? You do realize that's highly impractical no? All these calls for 'further investigation' makes it sound like you think the outcome woudl be different? makes it sound like you even have a clue of what they did and didn't do ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except you don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's called hiring GM's with invisible mode on and watch the suspected players. Games like WoW, and many other do this why cant Anet do it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because they're busy creating content for a very hungry community desperate for it? The ironic part is I had a GM watch me solo a champion in the core game years ago before any expansion. I have no doubt players reported me for hacking because I repeatedly soloed the champion for loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exchange went like this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: How's it going? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me: Good. You? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: Good. Mind if I watch you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me: No worries. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Five minutes later. . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: Have a nice day. ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, seriously, you can't expect GMs to watch all people all the time. It's just not effective. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a prime example of a GM wasting their time. I'm not saying GM should watch all players. Just players that are flagged for suspicion of hacking. They should NEVER reveal they are watching you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Um . . . you asked for GMs to do this, and then you say they're wasting time doing it. So . . . which one is it now? Besides, that wasn't the point of me telling you that story. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm asking GM's to investigate flagged accounts not showing up and go "Mind if i watch you" Of course people will either log off or stop cheating completely if they had a GM show up. > > > > > > > > > > > > My account was flagged, the GM watched me while invisible, then he announced himself to see if my behavior would change . . . and it didn't. He did exactly what you're asking them to do. Let's not rewrite history. You asked for GMs to _watch_ players for suspicious activity. Done and done. > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't get clearer than that as far as what you're asking. > > > > > > > > > > Yes but in this case they didn't and that is why people are complaining > > > > > > > > Really? You expected a nice personal greeting from a GM asking you if it would be OK for you stop cheating? Obviously, that 'personal touch' wasn't a very practical approach in this situation, so expecting it was a little silly. > > > > > > No i want ANET to do what they usually do which is investigate accounts that are flagged individually and gather evidence > > > > You have no idea if they didn't do that. > > Yes we do and i have quoted them many times admitting so > > > 1516 accounts were suspended because we detected that the accounts were running Guild Wars 2 at the same time as one or more of the following programs That doesn't say how they did it. You simply don't know. You're whole argument for not being banned is based on the fact that you don't know the details of how people were caught. BRILLIANT! GL with that appeal. Personally I don't think that's going to get you very far because frankly, it's not very relevant. I doesn't matter. There is no due process here; this isn't an episode of 'Law and Order'. They have some way, people were detected, DONE. 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SkyShroud.2865 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Shikigami.4013" said: > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > Yes but in this case they didn't and that is why people are complaining > > I find it odd that one of the most complaining persons (in regard of counts of posts in this thread, and that means you) only has a single thread in his profile, which happens to be a complaint about exploiters. One would assume that someone asking ArenaNet do to something against exploiters wouldn't be so angry when they actually do. Wouldn't that means they are unbias in their remarks? Sure, anet need to do something to cheaters but they cannot ban just base on assumptions. Have we not learn anything from facebook? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardenwolfe.8590 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 What assumption? The more recent arguments have been, "Yes, I cheated, and had a cheat program running, but it was not used on Guild Wars 2. They have no proof I used it with this game!" That itself is pretty amazing. And what's more amazing is people are admitting it on the official forums. Think about that. A ton of people just got suspended for cheating. And some of these people came here to say they did, but ANet has no proof. I hope the GMs are taking notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shikigami.4013 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"SkyShroud.2865" said: > > @"Shikigami.4013" said: > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > Yes but in this case they didn't and that is why people are complaining > > > > I find it odd that one of the most complaining persons (in regard of counts of posts in this thread, and that means you) only has a single thread in his profile, which happens to be a complaint about exploiters. One would assume that someone asking ArenaNet do to something against exploiters wouldn't be so angry when they actually do. > > Wouldn't that means they are unbias in their remarks? Sure, anet need to do something to cheaters but they cannot ban just base on assumptions. Have we not learn anything from facebook? They can, because they need no proof. If they wanted to, they could just ban everyone who is getting a botting report, regarless of if that person is botting or afk farming or playing legitly. It is absolutely in their right to do it, because there is no court and no judge and no laws, there is ArenaNet and the terms of service which allow them to ban or suspend you whenever they want for whatever reason. Also, why mention facebook? Facebook was not about them banning accounts (which they probably could do as easily as ArenaNet can) but about sharing data with a third party without consent, which never happened here. Completely unrelated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 So I have a question, say we had Microsoft word open in the background while running gw2, did Anet actually acquire a copy of what was written on an open word document that was up in the background? So they can see what's on it and they've stored it someplace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoodi.5849 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If ANet was sloppy, then those players running any cheat program while playing an MMO were equally as sloppy. Either way you slice it, caught is caught and hardly makes those players innocent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody has argued otherwise, but until after they were suspended they were not told or aware that you were not allowed to run cheat engine at the time as guild wars 2. Nobody was caught doing anything wrong because cheat engine is not inherently bad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, that's not even close to correct. Anyone that plays this game agrees to the terms and it's pretty clear 3rd party software is not allowed. They don't need to be told more than that; there is an expectation for a level of maturity and responsibility on the players part to understand what rules, restrictions and limits are involved when they sign up for this game service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're mindset is irresponsible ... so if you aren't caught doing something, it's not wrong? I can see you have very little reason to be listened to at this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If i recall how to use cheat engine, you had to inject it into a program before it can do anything. If its a program that can potentially cheat but they haven't got any evidence on the player cheating they need to just flag the account and do further investigation not ban with no remorse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You almost make it sound like Anet doesn't own the accounts that they took action on and need to PROVE to the player why they were banned. That's amusing to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, what further investigation do you think should be done ... have a bunch of Anet employees sit around and watch the account in question play the game and hope they cheat? You do realize that's highly impractical no? All these calls for 'further investigation' makes it sound like you think the outcome woudl be different? makes it sound like you even have a clue of what they did and didn't do ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except you don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's called hiring GM's with invisible mode on and watch the suspected players. Games like WoW, and many other do this why cant Anet do it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because they're busy creating content for a very hungry community desperate for it? The ironic part is I had a GM watch me solo a champion in the core game years ago before any expansion. I have no doubt players reported me for hacking because I repeatedly soloed the champion for loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exchange went like this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: How's it going? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me: Good. You? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: Good. Mind if I watch you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me: No worries. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Five minutes later. . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: Have a nice day. ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, seriously, you can't expect GMs to watch all people all the time. It's just not effective. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a prime example of a GM wasting their time. I'm not saying GM should watch all players. Just players that are flagged for suspicion of hacking. They should NEVER reveal they are watching you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Um . . . you asked for GMs to do this, and then you say they're wasting time doing it. So . . . which one is it now? Besides, that wasn't the point of me telling you that story. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm asking GM's to investigate flagged accounts not showing up and go "Mind if i watch you" Of course people will either log off or stop cheating completely if they had a GM show up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My account was flagged, the GM watched me while invisible, then he announced himself to see if my behavior would change . . . and it didn't. He did exactly what you're asking them to do. Let's not rewrite history. You asked for GMs to _watch_ players for suspicious activity. Done and done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't get clearer than that as far as what you're asking. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes but in this case they didn't and that is why people are complaining > > > > > > > > > > Really? You expected a nice personal greeting from a GM asking you if it would be OK for you stop cheating? Obviously, that 'personal touch' wasn't a very practical approach in this situation, so expecting it was a little silly. > > > > > > > > No i want ANET to do what they usually do which is investigate accounts that are flagged individually and gather evidence > > > > > > You have no idea if they didn't do that. > > > > Yes we do and i have quoted them many times admitting so > > > > > 1516 accounts were suspended because we detected that the accounts were running Guild Wars 2 at the same time as one or more of the following programs > > That doesn't say how they did it. You simply don't know. You're whole argument for not being banned is based on the fact that you don't know the details of how people were caught. BRILLIANT! GL with that appeal. Personally I don't think that's going to get you very far because frankly, it's not very relevant. I doesn't matter. There is no due process here; this isn't an episode of 'Law and Order'. > > They have some way, people were detected, DONE. Yes we know this as they admitted > 1516 accounts were suspended because we detected that the accounts were running Guild Wars 2 at the same time as one or more of the following programs ANETs customer service is usually fair in most cases and they will actually evaluate peoples accounts and look into them when they are appealing bans. Something that ANET should actually do before banning people and not ban them based on assumptions which is what people like myself are complaining about. That and the fact at first they originally said nobody would be allowed to appeal their bans something that they backtracked on. Nobody is asking for a free pass, people who know they are innocent just want a fair chance and to have a GM look into their accounts individually. Saying "well they can do what they want its their game" is not very useful and i'm not sure why fellow consumers are throwing away their rights to defend a company. Either way i hope you all enjoy the rest of your weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shikigami.4013 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > So I have a question, say we had Microsoft word open in the background while running gw2, did Anet actually acquire a copy of what was written on an open word document that was up in the background? So they can see what's on it and they've stored it someplace? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usnedward.9023 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"CETheLucid.3964" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"CETheLucid.3964" said: > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > I wonder how many people saying that false positives are for the greater good would be willing to delete their own accounts to show solidarity. > > > > > > Even the guilty ones are free to come back in 6 months though? > > > > Solid point. > > > > Uninstall for six months then? > > Assuming the banned ones aren't using their not-banned alts, sure. Or else it just becomes "don't use your main account for 6 months". B) I think there are more bans coming. My alt was not banned until today even though I do not actively play it. Um....so more probably to come? Amazes me still after so many days that people will not admit their fault as I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezekan.2671 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > What assumption? The more recent arguments have been, "Yes, I cheated, and had a cheat program running, but it was not used on Guild Wars 2. They have no proof I used it with this game!" That itself is pretty amazing. And what's more amazing is people are admitting it on the official forums. > > Think about that. A ton of people just got suspended for cheating. And some of these people came here to say they did, but ANet has no proof. > > I hope the GMs are taking notes. > > Cheat engine is not a cheat program. Its an editing program. You can create viruses with notepad, doesn't mean notepad is malicious. Your points are invalid. Using cheat engine in single player games is modding, its not cheating. There are plenty of mods for single player games that give you god mod etc already. Its just more efficient this way however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > @"trueanimus.4085" said: > > all i can say is good riddance. if you had the program running, any of them, at the same time the GW2.exe was going, you cant prove that you werent using it just like they cant prove you were. > > > > The point is... if you had those cheat programs running, you either knew how to cheat and didnt, or you were straight up cheating period. > > > > end of story. > > > > Thank you anet for finally showing some concern > > Yes you can > > > I already outlined one way they could have used to determine whether or not the Cheat Engine process is attached to the Guild Wars 2 process by simply checking the handles the Cheat Engine process has open. So there are definitely ways to figure it out. It would take less than 15 minutes to implement and can be done in probably less than 20 lines of code as well. So this is not at all some kind of technical limitation. > > ANET were just sloppy, made assumptions and banned innocent people. This is useless since you can rename gw2.exe to anything you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > It raises more questions because you are basically admitting you have no evidence of people cheating but detected they have the program open at the same time which according to you is good enough reason to ban users for 6 months. it is all the reason needed. You run a cheat program, you are a cheater. Done. Nothing else needed. 'oh, but I don't use it for gw2' is like hoarding drugs and then saying 'I am just looking at them' when the police raids your home. Not an excuse that will get you far. You do shady stuff, you get banned. Easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig. Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Vegeta.9670" said: > > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said: > > Hello, > > > > I wanted to be sure that folks who are following or participating in this thread are aware that we've provided a lot of additional information this evening in [this post](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/476255/#Comment_476255 "this thread"). I hope that in reading that update, you'll find your questions are answered. > > " CheatEngine " Just because this is running on someone's system doesn't mean its being used in Guild Wars 2. What about other games? you are a cheater. If you cheat in one game, you will cheat in other games too. It comes with the mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezekan.2671 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said: > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > It raises more questions because you are basically admitting you have no evidence of people cheating but detected they have the program open at the same time which according to you is good enough reason to ban users for 6 months. > > it is all the reason needed. You run a cheat program, you are a cheater. Done. Nothing else needed. > > 'oh, but I don't use it for gw2' is like hoarding drugs and then saying 'I am just looking at them' when the police raids your home. Not an excuse that will get you far. > > You do shady stuff, you get banned. Easy. Cheat engine is not a cheat program. Its an editing program. You can create viruses with notepad, doesn't mean notepad is malicious. Your points are invalid. Using cheat engine in single player games is modding, its not cheating. There are plenty of mods for single player games that give you god mod etc already. Its just more efficient this way however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If ANet was sloppy, then those players running any cheat program while playing an MMO were equally as sloppy. Either way you slice it, caught is caught and hardly makes those players innocent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody has argued otherwise, but until after they were suspended they were not told or aware that you were not allowed to run cheat engine at the time as guild wars 2. Nobody was caught doing anything wrong because cheat engine is not inherently bad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, that's not even close to correct. Anyone that plays this game agrees to the terms and it's pretty clear 3rd party software is not allowed. They don't need to be told more than that; there is an expectation for a level of maturity and responsibility on the players part to understand what rules, restrictions and limits are involved when they sign up for this game service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're mindset is irresponsible ... so if you aren't caught doing something, it's not wrong? I can see you have very little reason to be listened to at this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If i recall how to use cheat engine, you had to inject it into a program before it can do anything. If its a program that can potentially cheat but they haven't got any evidence on the player cheating they need to just flag the account and do further investigation not ban with no remorse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You almost make it sound like Anet doesn't own the accounts that they took action on and need to PROVE to the player why they were banned. That's amusing to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, what further investigation do you think should be done ... have a bunch of Anet employees sit around and watch the account in question play the game and hope they cheat? You do realize that's highly impractical no? All these calls for 'further investigation' makes it sound like you think the outcome woudl be different? makes it sound like you even have a clue of what they did and didn't do ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except you don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's called hiring GM's with invisible mode on and watch the suspected players. Games like WoW, and many other do this why cant Anet do it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because they're busy creating content for a very hungry community desperate for it? The ironic part is I had a GM watch me solo a champion in the core game years ago before any expansion. I have no doubt players reported me for hacking because I repeatedly soloed the champion for loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exchange went like this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: How's it going? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me: Good. You? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: Good. Mind if I watch you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me: No worries. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Five minutes later. . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: Have a nice day. ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, seriously, you can't expect GMs to watch all people all the time. It's just not effective. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a prime example of a GM wasting their time. I'm not saying GM should watch all players. Just players that are flagged for suspicion of hacking. They should NEVER reveal they are watching you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Um . . . you asked for GMs to do this, and then you say they're wasting time doing it. So . . . which one is it now? Besides, that wasn't the point of me telling you that story. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm asking GM's to investigate flagged accounts not showing up and go "Mind if i watch you" Of course people will either log off or stop cheating completely if they had a GM show up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My account was flagged, the GM watched me while invisible, then he announced himself to see if my behavior would change . . . and it didn't. He did exactly what you're asking them to do. Let's not rewrite history. You asked for GMs to _watch_ players for suspicious activity. Done and done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't get clearer than that as far as what you're asking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes but in this case they didn't and that is why people are complaining > > > > > > > > > > > > Really? You expected a nice personal greeting from a GM asking you if it would be OK for you stop cheating? Obviously, that 'personal touch' wasn't a very practical approach in this situation, so expecting it was a little silly. > > > > > > > > > > No i want ANET to do what they usually do which is investigate accounts that are flagged individually and gather evidence > > > > > > > > You have no idea if they didn't do that. > > > > > > Yes we do and i have quoted them many times admitting so > > > > > > > 1516 accounts were suspended because we detected that the accounts were running Guild Wars 2 at the same time as one or more of the following programs > > > > That doesn't say how they did it. You simply don't know. You're whole argument for not being banned is based on the fact that you don't know the details of how people were caught. BRILLIANT! GL with that appeal. Personally I don't think that's going to get you very far because frankly, it's not very relevant. I doesn't matter. There is no due process here; this isn't an episode of 'Law and Order'. > > > > > > > > > They have some way, people were detected, DONE. > > Yes we know this as they admitted > > 1516 accounts were suspended because we detected that the accounts were running Guild Wars 2 at the same time as one or more of the following programs > > ANETs customer service is usually fair in most cases and they will actually evaluate peoples accounts and look into them when they are appealing bans. Something that ANET should actually do before banning people and not ban them based on assumptions which is what people like myself are complaining about. That and the fact at first they originally said nobody would be allowed to appeal their bans something that they backtracked on. > > > > Nobody is asking for a free pass, people who know they are innocent just want a fair chance and to have a GM look into their accounts individually. > > > Saying "well they can do what they want its their game" is not very useful and i'm not sure why fellow consumers are throwing away their rights to defend a company. > > Either way i hope you all enjoy the rest of your weekend I don't see how that's an 'admission' of not having data, proof or evidence of the violation. The violation is running 3rd party software ... they detected it. I'm not sure how it's more complicated than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CETheLucid.3964 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"usnedward.9023" said: > > @"CETheLucid.3964" said: > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > @"CETheLucid.3964" said: > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > I wonder how many people saying that false positives are for the greater good would be willing to delete their own accounts to show solidarity. > > > > > > > > Even the guilty ones are free to come back in 6 months though? > > > > > > Solid point. > > > > > > Uninstall for six months then? > > > > Assuming the banned ones aren't using their not-banned alts, sure. Or else it just becomes "don't use your main account for 6 months". B) > > I think there are more bans coming. My alt was not banned until today even though I do not actively play it. Um....so more probably to come? Amazes me still after so many days that people will not admit their fault as I have. I saw your earlier posts and I honestly respect you for accepting responsibility for what you did. It's obvious you didn't go about it the best way, but I won't patronize you on that. I don't approve or condone but I can understand where your coming from. WvW is a mess and I hope they got the guys that drove you to it for what it's worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezekan.2671 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If ANet was sloppy, then those players running any cheat program while playing an MMO were equally as sloppy. Either way you slice it, caught is caught and hardly makes those players innocent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody has argued otherwise, but until after they were suspended they were not told or aware that you were not allowed to run cheat engine at the time as guild wars 2. Nobody was caught doing anything wrong because cheat engine is not inherently bad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, that's not even close to correct. Anyone that plays this game agrees to the terms and it's pretty clear 3rd party software is not allowed. They don't need to be told more than that; there is an expectation for a level of maturity and responsibility on the players part to understand what rules, restrictions and limits are involved when they sign up for this game service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're mindset is irresponsible ... so if you aren't caught doing something, it's not wrong? I can see you have very little reason to be listened to at this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If i recall how to use cheat engine, you had to inject it into a program before it can do anything. If its a program that can potentially cheat but they haven't got any evidence on the player cheating they need to just flag the account and do further investigation not ban with no remorse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You almost make it sound like Anet doesn't own the accounts that they took action on and need to PROVE to the player why they were banned. That's amusing to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, what further investigation do you think should be done ... have a bunch of Anet employees sit around and watch the account in question play the game and hope they cheat? You do realize that's highly impractical no? All these calls for 'further investigation' makes it sound like you think the outcome woudl be different? makes it sound like you even have a clue of what they did and didn't do ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except you don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's called hiring GM's with invisible mode on and watch the suspected players. Games like WoW, and many other do this why cant Anet do it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because they're busy creating content for a very hungry community desperate for it? The ironic part is I had a GM watch me solo a champion in the core game years ago before any expansion. I have no doubt players reported me for hacking because I repeatedly soloed the champion for loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exchange went like this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: How's it going? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me: Good. You? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: Good. Mind if I watch you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me: No worries. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Five minutes later. . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: Have a nice day. ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, seriously, you can't expect GMs to watch all people all the time. It's just not effective. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a prime example of a GM wasting their time. I'm not saying GM should watch all players. Just players that are flagged for suspicion of hacking. They should NEVER reveal they are watching you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Um . . . you asked for GMs to do this, and then you say they're wasting time doing it. So . . . which one is it now? Besides, that wasn't the point of me telling you that story. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm asking GM's to investigate flagged accounts not showing up and go "Mind if i watch you" Of course people will either log off or stop cheating completely if they had a GM show up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My account was flagged, the GM watched me while invisible, then he announced himself to see if my behavior would change . . . and it didn't. He did exactly what you're asking them to do. Let's not rewrite history. You asked for GMs to _watch_ players for suspicious activity. Done and done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't get clearer than that as far as what you're asking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes but in this case they didn't and that is why people are complaining > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Really? You expected a nice personal greeting from a GM asking you if it would be OK for you stop cheating? Obviously, that 'personal touch' wasn't a very practical approach in this situation, so expecting it was a little silly. > > > > > > > > > > > > No i want ANET to do what they usually do which is investigate accounts that are flagged individually and gather evidence > > > > > > > > > > You have no idea if they didn't do that. > > > > > > > > Yes we do and i have quoted them many times admitting so > > > > > > > > > 1516 accounts were suspended because we detected that the accounts were running Guild Wars 2 at the same time as one or more of the following programs > > > > > > That doesn't say how they did it. You simply don't know. You're whole argument for not being banned is based on the fact that you don't know the details of how people were caught. BRILLIANT! GL with that appeal. Personally I don't think that's going to get you very far because frankly, it's not very relevant. I doesn't matter. There is no due process here; this isn't an episode of 'Law and Order'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They have some way, people were detected, DONE. > > > > Yes we know this as they admitted > > > 1516 accounts were suspended because we detected that the accounts were running Guild Wars 2 at the same time as one or more of the following programs > > > > ANETs customer service is usually fair in most cases and they will actually evaluate peoples accounts and look into them when they are appealing bans. Something that ANET should actually do before banning people and not ban them based on assumptions which is what people like myself are complaining about. That and the fact at first they originally said nobody would be allowed to appeal their bans something that they backtracked on. > > > > > > > > Nobody is asking for a free pass, people who know they are innocent just want a fair chance and to have a GM look into their accounts individually. > > > > > > Saying "well they can do what they want its their game" is not very useful and i'm not sure why fellow consumers are throwing away their rights to defend a company. > > > > Either way i hope you all enjoy the rest of your weekend > > I don't see how that's an 'admission' of not having data, proof or evidence of the violation. The violation is running 3rd party software ... they detected it. I'm not sure how it's more complicated than that. Cheat engine is NOT a cheating program despite the name, it can be used for many other things. You can create viruses with notepad, why people who had a notepad open are not banned? You can hack GW2 servers with coding programs, why are those not banned? They are even more dangerous than any cheating tool. Cheat engine is a modding tool for people who use it on single player games. Its free, its flexible and very easy to learn. Instead of constantly visiting sites like Nexus to get mods, and sometimes not even finding what you are looking for, you can change your game however you like. NOT A SINGLE COMPANY who produces single player games has a problem with this and none even try to protect their game against it. The most prominent use of it is probably Dragon Age Inquisition in witch people even used it to fix bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jerks.3172" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If ANet was sloppy, then those players running any cheat program while playing an MMO were equally as sloppy. Either way you slice it, caught is caught and hardly makes those players innocent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nobody has argued otherwise, but until after they were suspended they were not told or aware that you were not allowed to run cheat engine at the time as guild wars 2. Nobody was caught doing anything wrong because cheat engine is not inherently bad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, that's not even close to correct. Anyone that plays this game agrees to the terms and it's pretty clear 3rd party software is not allowed. They don't need to be told more than that; there is an expectation for a level of maturity and responsibility on the players part to understand what rules, restrictions and limits are involved when they sign up for this game service. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're mindset is irresponsible ... so if you aren't caught doing something, it's not wrong? I can see you have very little reason to be listened to at this point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If i recall how to use cheat engine, you had to inject it into a program before it can do anything. If its a program that can potentially cheat but they haven't got any evidence on the player cheating they need to just flag the account and do further investigation not ban with no remorse. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You almost make it sound like Anet doesn't own the accounts that they took action on and need to PROVE to the player why they were banned. That's amusing to say the least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I mean, what further investigation do you think should be done ... have a bunch of Anet employees sit around and watch the account in question play the game and hope they cheat? You do realize that's highly impractical no? All these calls for 'further investigation' makes it sound like you think the outcome woudl be different? makes it sound like you even have a clue of what they did and didn't do ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except you don't. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's called hiring GM's with invisible mode on and watch the suspected players. Games like WoW, and many other do this why cant Anet do it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because they're busy creating content for a very hungry community desperate for it? The ironic part is I had a GM watch me solo a champion in the core game years ago before any expansion. I have no doubt players reported me for hacking because I repeatedly soloed the champion for loot. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exchange went like this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: How's it going? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me: Good. You? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: Good. Mind if I watch you? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Me: No worries. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Five minutes later. . . . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GM: Have a nice day. ;) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But, seriously, you can't expect GMs to watch all people all the time. It's just not effective. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a prime example of a GM wasting their time. I'm not saying GM should watch all players. Just players that are flagged for suspicion of hacking. They should NEVER reveal they are watching you. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Um . . . you asked for GMs to do this, and then you say they're wasting time doing it. So . . . which one is it now? Besides, that wasn't the point of me telling you that story. :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm asking GM's to investigate flagged accounts not showing up and go "Mind if i watch you" Of course people will either log off or stop cheating completely if they had a GM show up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My account was flagged, the GM watched me while invisible, then he announced himself to see if my behavior would change . . . and it didn't. He did exactly what you're asking them to do. Let's not rewrite history. You asked for GMs to _watch_ players for suspicious activity. Done and done. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't get clearer than that as far as what you're asking. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes but in this case they didn't and that is why people are complaining > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Really? You expected a nice personal greeting from a GM asking you if it would be OK for you stop cheating? Obviously, that 'personal touch' wasn't a very practical approach in this situation, so expecting it was a little silly. > > > > > > > > > > > > No i want ANET to do what they usually do which is investigate accounts that are flagged individually and gather evidence > > > > > > > > > > You have no idea if they didn't do that. > > > > > > > > Yes we do and i have quoted them many times admitting so > > > > > > > > > 1516 accounts were suspended because we detected that the accounts were running Guild Wars 2 at the same time as one or more of the following programs > > > > > > That doesn't say how they did it. You simply don't know. You're whole argument for not being banned is based on the fact that you don't know the details of how people were caught. BRILLIANT! GL with that appeal. Personally I don't think that's going to get you very far because frankly, it's not very relevant. I doesn't matter. There is no due process here; this isn't an episode of 'Law and Order'. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They have some way, people were detected, DONE. > > > > Yes we know this as they admitted > > > 1516 accounts were suspended because we detected that the accounts were running Guild Wars 2 at the same time as one or more of the following programs > > > > ANETs customer service is usually fair in most cases and they will actually evaluate peoples accounts and look into them when they are appealing bans. Something that ANET should actually do before banning people and not ban them based on assumptions which is what people like myself are complaining about. That and the fact at first they originally said nobody would be allowed to appeal their bans something that they backtracked on. > > > > > > > > Nobody is asking for a free pass, people who know they are innocent just want a fair chance and to have a GM look into their accounts individually. > > > > > > Saying "well they can do what they want its their game" is not very useful and i'm not sure why fellow consumers are throwing away their rights to defend a company. > > > > Either way i hope you all enjoy the rest of your weekend > > I don't see how that's an 'admission' of not having data, proof or evidence of the violation. The violation is running 3rd party software ... they detected it. I'm not sure how it's more complicated than that. The violation is not running third party software as, if that were a violation, it would require banning 100% of all players (we all have third party software running on our computers while playing gw2). 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Kovu.7560 Posted April 14, 2018 Share Posted April 14, 2018 Right. So I don't use any 3rd party programs at the moment, but I was thinking about getting arcdps. This scares the shit out of me. Could we get clarification in a pinned topic, [perhaps this one](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/352/policy-third-party-programs-multi-boxing-macros "perhaps this one"), as to which 3rd party programs are allowed? I'd feel a lot better about it being officially written in a pinned thread and not simply heresay or some old dev post somewhere around here or reddit. Until then I'll be avoiding any of the bell-and-whistle programs. ~ Kovu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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