Account suspension discussion [merged]

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

> @"Evon Skyfyre.9673" said:

> > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > @"Evon Skyfyre.9673" said:

> > > I've been asked is it possible to play the game from a fresh install and choose NOT to take part in such intrusions or is using the game your acceptance?

> >

> > The latter. If you don't agree, the program won't let you play the game.

>

> So players not running the TOS past a legal eye will be blissfully ignorant of such goings on?

>

 

Let me answer your question with a question: how many players do believe actually read the TOS in its entirety before they click yes to play the game?

 

There's your answer.

[OrbitalButt.5708]

This thread is an amazing assortment of the absolute worst analogies ever crafted by human hands

[Evon Skyfyre.9673]

please remove

[Jason.5983]

> @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > @"Jason.5983" said:

> > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > @"Jason.5983" One is still better than none, but again . . . good luck with convincing ANet otherwise.

> >

> > I am doubtful I need to convince them.

> > I have heard of some suspensions being lifted, and the backlash here in the discussion speaks for itself.

> >

> > Damage to a companies reputation can have effects on sales, and so forth.

>

> The ironic part is all this thread tells me is how good this game is, and how far people will go to convince ANet to let them play this game again if suspended from it.

>

> But damage control and so-called reputations is a whole 'nother topic.

 

That element is humorous in all games. I remember seeing it back in Runescape when I was a bit younger - it was mostly teenagers crying and claiming they wouldn't do it again.

 

I would imagine most of the people who were banned recently, likely bought another account or are planning on it. Perhaps a certain amount left the game, for another or maybe they stopped playing games. I think if someone is willing to take that risk to bot, they feel it's a valid enough reason, be it gaining gold, which would probably mean they are somewhat addicted to the game and are quite likely to return, or literally for black market money, where it's foreseeable that some have still made more money than they have lost in time and money for a new account.

 

That's a bit of a sad side of all this. People are also aware of the hashing, and I would imagine there is some technical way to hide your processes (there always is), meaning perhaps this method would be less efficient when used in the future. Can obviously contrast this to other methods of anti-cheating.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@"Evon Skyfyre.9673" I have my doubts, given my legal experience with these types of documents, but one can hope.

[Evon Skyfyre.9673]

please remove

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

@"Jason.5983" Very true.

[Twoodi.5849]

> @"Jason.5983" said:

> > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > @"Jason.5983" said:

> > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > @"Jason.5983" One is still better than none, but again . . . good luck with convincing ANet otherwise.

> > >

> > > I am doubtful I need to convince them.

> > > I have heard of some suspensions being lifted, and the backlash here in the discussion speaks for itself.

> > >

> > > Damage to a companies reputation can have effects on sales, and so forth.

> >

> > The ironic part is all this thread tells me is how good this game is, and how far people will go to convince ANet to let them play this game again if suspended from it.

> >

> > But damage control and so-called reputations is a whole 'nother topic.

>

> That element is humorous in all games. I remember seeing it back in Runescape when I was a bit younger - it was mostly teenagers crying and claiming they wouldn't do it again.

>

> I would imagine most of the people who were banned recently, likely bought another account or are planning on it. Perhaps a certain amount left the game, for another or maybe they stopped playing games. I think if someone is willing to take that risk to bot, they feel it's a valid enough reason, be it gaining gold, which would probably mean they are somewhat addicted to the game and are quite likely to return, or literally for black market money, where it's foreseeable that some have still made more money than they have lost in time and money for a new account.

>

> That's a bit of a sad side of all this. People are also aware of the hashing, and I would imagine there is some technical way to hide your processes (there always is), meaning perhaps this method would be less efficient when used in the future. Can obviously contrast this to other methods of anti-cheating.

 

The sad side of this is the people in the forums blindly defending ANET and claiming false bans are okay because ANET can do whatever they want

[Evon Skyfyre.9673]

please remove

[CETheLucid.3964]

> @"OrbitalButt.5708" said:

> This thread is an amazing assortment of the absolute worst analogies ever crafted by human hands

 

Emotional people trying to explain away their sins tend to do that for lack of an actual explanation or else to lessen the impact of what they've done. Also video games. Most people here aren't writers.

 

Some of the guys on the other side of the ban wave are pretty mean though. Some of the "Anet is literally Hitler for banning me" posters here deserve that level of response, but other times the holier than thou attitude is gross and grating.

 

Those folks if they were on the other side would probably be acting exactly like the ones they're mocking. All the same it is legitimately entertaining watching some of the law school college kiddos go at it.

[Evon Skyfyre.9673]

please remove

[Faaris.8013]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > > What you do in said park is public, it has consquences. What you do online is also public, it has consequences.

> > >

> > > If someone happens to catch you in the act of a crime in a public space, guess what....You're likely to face the consequences.

> >

> > That is an inaccurate comparison, I'm sure you can come up with something better.

> >

> > Only a few things you do online are public, like writing here on these forums. But even then, you know nothing about me and if I insulted or shamed you, it would have no real consequences. If I did that in a park, you might smash my nose in. You would know how I look like, what kind of people I have with me, you could follow me home if you wanted. In a park or on the street, everybody can see you, you have no control over it. On the Internet, you can control what you provide to the public.

> >

> >

>

> You are playing an MMO, and have voluntarily given up your right to privacy. Everything you do in said space of this MMO is public, to think otherwise is extremely foolish.

> The only protected data you have is what is legally required by Anet to protect Age, Name, Location, Spending. Outside of this you have near 0 protection.

>

> But you're going to say something really silly like but but im protected! No, you're not. You sigend away those freedoms the moment you started paying for an online service. Your ISP is tracking you, have you complained to them ? Your local government tracks you on a daily basis have you complained to them ?

>

> No instead you've come to the understanding that your "Freedoms" have a stopping point. You don't actually want real freedom, for that is anarchy. So every day you trade bits and pieces of your freedoms for the lifestyle you've grown accustomed too. Part of that that you're now unhappy about for some asinine reason is this game companies ability to monitor its users and their machines for the intent and means to cheat.

>

> No one who got caught up in this ban wave was innocuous, they all had the programs running on their machines for sustained periods of time.

>

> But hey, keep on complaining about it. Im sure you'll get some pro-bono lawyer to take your case, right before they get laughed straight out of court for the farce they are presenting.

>

 

Now you are using some interpretation of the word "public" you made up. When you started using that word I assumed you actually mean "public" like everybody else. Turns out "public" in your interpretation is what specific entities can know about you. That my ISP and Anet know my IP Address at a specific time is not public information at all. That Anet knows how many hours I play per week is no public information either. They could decide to make that public, but they didn't. What kind of software I'm running on my local PC is not public information either, so how did you even come to use that term in the first place??

 

Everything I do in connection with an organisation I made a contract with is not public. I really think you should look up that term before responding. This is not about freedom either, you are running your own program here that has nothing to do with the topic.

 

Oh and btw, none of my accounts have been banned, my complaints refer to the unnecessary violation of my trust towards the company by that spy tool.

[JohnnySupernova.9182]

> @"Jason.5983" said:

> > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > @"Jason.5983" said:

> > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > @"Jason.5983" All that are attempts to muddy the waters and distract from the issue: cheating.

> > > >

> > > > I worked in legal for years. Area Defense Counsel would beg military members to say nothing to the police. But it never happens. The guilty always must speak out on how unjust or wrong the methodology was to them . . . and every time they'd indirectly prove themselves guilty.

> > > >

> > > > This thread is a case study. Let's say ANet was completely wrong on how they got this information. Fine. Most of the people here complaining would still be suspended because the indirectly ADMITTED they did it in this thread. And all ANet needs to do is show those comments of disclosed guilt . . . freely admitted on a public forum.

> > > >

> > > > Again, seriously folks, stop posting about how you were wrong, but ANet was worst because of legal reason A, B, or C.

> > > >

> > > > It's not helping your cause.

> > >

> > > You're conflating different issues that people are having. Whilst some I'm sure are guilty as charged and are trying to play a blame game or feign ignorance; others, who have not received a ban, are concerned with methods and transparency.

> >

> > Good luck with that. In the meantime, the game is now freer of many cheaters in PvE, PvP, and WvW. And all it took is what some on these forums would call questionable behavior from the game's developers and owners.

> >

> > I don't know about you, but I consider that a bargain.

>

> 1500 accounts, can be estimated by probably many people just by the sheer amount of people who play the game, and vague estimates at how popular macros and bots are, to be a pretty dismal figure. I do not share the comfort you perhaps feel.

>

>

 

Not only is it an incredibly small figure, but when this story blows up outside of the GW2 community, Arena Net will be known as the mmo dev that installed spyware on peoples' computers. It's going to take some killer marketing to get around the stink of "knowingly installs malware" and Anet's marketing is uhhhh

[Ashen.2907]

> @"JohnnySupernova.9182" said:

> > @"Jason.5983" said:

> > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > @"Jason.5983" said:

> > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > > @"Jason.5983" All that are attempts to muddy the waters and distract from the issue: cheating.

> > > > >

> > > > > I worked in legal for years. Area Defense Counsel would beg military members to say nothing to the police. But it never happens. The guilty always must speak out on how unjust or wrong the methodology was to them . . . and every time they'd indirectly prove themselves guilty.

> > > > >

> > > > > This thread is a case study. Let's say ANet was completely wrong on how they got this information. Fine. Most of the people here complaining would still be suspended because the indirectly ADMITTED they did it in this thread. And all ANet needs to do is show those comments of disclosed guilt . . . freely admitted on a public forum.

> > > > >

> > > > > Again, seriously folks, stop posting about how you were wrong, but ANet was worst because of legal reason A, B, or C.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's not helping your cause.

> > > >

> > > > You're conflating different issues that people are having. Whilst some I'm sure are guilty as charged and are trying to play a blame game or feign ignorance; others, who have not received a ban, are concerned with methods and transparency.

> > >

> > > Good luck with that. In the meantime, the game is now freer of many cheaters in PvE, PvP, and WvW. And all it took is what some on these forums would call questionable behavior from the game's developers and owners.

> > >

> > > I don't know about you, but I consider that a bargain.

> >

> > 1500 accounts, can be estimated by probably many people just by the sheer amount of people who play the game, and vague estimates at how popular macros and bots are, to be a pretty dismal figure. I do not share the comfort you perhaps feel.

> >

> >

>

> Not only is it an incredibly small figure, but when this story blows up outside of the GW2 community, Arena Net will be known as the mmo dev that installed spyware on peoples' computers. It's going to take some killer marketing to get around the stink of "knowingly installs malware" and Anet's marketing is uhhhh

 

This.

 

ToS is irrelevant to perception.

 

Of course it could all just blow over.

 

We will have to wait and see.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

> @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said:

> >

> > @"Gaile Gray.6029"

> >

> > Sounds like you didn't actually ban cheaters.

> >

> > That's all I or anyone else cares about.

> >

> > People who fly, people who go under the map, speed hack, gain unfair advantages

> >

> > You're banning people who changed what they see on their screen? Are you kitten kidding me?

> >

> > You're banning people who used a macro (without botting)? Are you guys for real?

> >

> > Disappointed.

> > You are a bunch of rule mongers.

> >

> >

>

> I think you lack any kind of information to prove what you just said.. dig around and you absolutely see the cries and whimpers of some of those cheats after receiving their bans for utilizing their minion bots, speed, fly and no clip hacks, amongst others.

> You just naturally thought it was all about the likes of taco, reshade or arcdps... try again.

 

 

When I saw that people other than cheaters got banned, I "naturally" thought that was bs.

 

@"Gaile Gray.6029"

 

You ever heard the phrase 'Measure twice, cut once'?

 

The only people that should ever be banned is cheaters, period.

Anything other than that and whoever is making these decisions are following an arbitrary rule book and maybe they take are too zealous.

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Twoodi.5849" said:

> > @"Jason.5983" said:

> > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > @"Jason.5983" said:

> > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > > @"Jason.5983" One is still better than none, but again . . . good luck with convincing ANet otherwise.

> > > >

> > > > I am doubtful I need to convince them.

> > > > I have heard of some suspensions being lifted, and the backlash here in the discussion speaks for itself.

> > > >

> > > > Damage to a companies reputation can have effects on sales, and so forth.

> > >

> > > The ironic part is all this thread tells me is how good this game is, and how far people will go to convince ANet to let them play this game again if suspended from it.

> > >

> > > But damage control and so-called reputations is a whole 'nother topic.

> >

> > That element is humorous in all games. I remember seeing it back in Runescape when I was a bit younger - it was mostly teenagers crying and claiming they wouldn't do it again.

> >

> > I would imagine most of the people who were banned recently, likely bought another account or are planning on it. Perhaps a certain amount left the game, for another or maybe they stopped playing games. I think if someone is willing to take that risk to bot, they feel it's a valid enough reason, be it gaining gold, which would probably mean they are somewhat addicted to the game and are quite likely to return, or literally for black market money, where it's foreseeable that some have still made more money than they have lost in time and money for a new account.

> >

> > That's a bit of a sad side of all this. People are also aware of the hashing, and I would imagine there is some technical way to hide your processes (there always is), meaning perhaps this method would be less efficient when used in the future. Can obviously contrast this to other methods of anti-cheating.

>

> The sad side of this is the people in the forums blindly defending ANET and claiming false bans are okay because ANET can do whatever they want

 

It's not blindly defending ... it's simply accepting responsibility and acknowledging the space in which we play. Anet owns the accounts. They CAN do what they want with them. Accept it. That's NOT just an Anet thing either.

[Nightlark.4029]

> @"Evon Skyfyre.9673" said:

> Wonder how the makers of these programs are taking the labelling of their packages.

3 of the listed programs are specifically for GW2, and another is for botting in MMOs with a version specifically for GW2. Pretty sure the makers of those 4 programs don't care how they are labelled, since they make changes to try to avoid having their software trigger cheat detection (more so for the botting one, since other MMOs have better cheat detection in place than GW2).

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"Twoodi.5849" said:

> > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > @"Jason.5983" All that are attempts to muddy the waters and distract from the issue: cheating.

> >

> > I worked in legal for years. Area Defense Counsel would beg military members to say nothing to the police. But it never happens. The guilty always must speak out on how unjust or wrong the methodology was to them . . . and every time they'd indirectly prove themselves guilty.

> >

> > This thread is a case study. Let's say ANet was completely wrong on how they got this information. Fine. Most of the people here complaining would still be suspended because the indirectly ADMITTED they did it in this thread. And all ANet needs to do is show those comments of disclosed guilt . . . freely admitted on a public forum.

> >

> > Again, seriously folks, stop posting about how you were wrong, but ANet was worst because of legal reason A, B, or C.

> >

> > It's not helping your cause.

>

> Stop lying you claim a T&C is a legally binding document you have already shown you do not know what you are talking about

>

 

Then do something about it. I wouldnt do it myself but i am sure you will lose case ore switch to linux you cant be spied on there for if eula isnt legally binding isnt it then ok too cheat and even your right to do so for thats what you are saying

[Zaraki.5784]

> @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > @"Jason.5983" said:

> > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > @"Jason.5983" One is still better than none, but again . . . good luck with convincing ANet otherwise.

> >

> > I am doubtful I need to convince them.

> > I have heard of some suspensions being lifted, and the backlash here in the discussion speaks for itself.

> >

> > Damage to a companies reputation can have effects on sales, and so forth.

>

> The ironic part is all this thread tells me is how good this game is, and how far people will go to convince ANet to let them play this game again if suspended from it.

>

> But damage control and so-called reputations is a whole 'nother topic.

 

Nah the point of this thread has shifted from what you said to "anet are bad people for spying us".

 

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Twoodi.5849" said:

> > > @"Jason.5983" said:

> > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > > @"Jason.5983" said:

> > > > > > @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > > > > > @"Jason.5983" One is still better than none, but again . . . good luck with convincing ANet otherwise.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am doubtful I need to convince them.

> > > > > I have heard of some suspensions being lifted, and the backlash here in the discussion speaks for itself.

> > > > >

> > > > > Damage to a companies reputation can have effects on sales, and so forth.

> > > >

> > > > The ironic part is all this thread tells me is how good this game is, and how far people will go to convince ANet to let them play this game again if suspended from it.

> > > >

> > > > But damage control and so-called reputations is a whole 'nother topic.

> > >

> > > That element is humorous in all games. I remember seeing it back in Runescape when I was a bit younger - it was mostly teenagers crying and claiming they wouldn't do it again.

> > >

> > > I would imagine most of the people who were banned recently, likely bought another account or are planning on it. Perhaps a certain amount left the game, for another or maybe they stopped playing games. I think if someone is willing to take that risk to bot, they feel it's a valid enough reason, be it gaining gold, which would probably mean they are somewhat addicted to the game and are quite likely to return, or literally for black market money, where it's foreseeable that some have still made more money than they have lost in time and money for a new account.

> > >

> > > That's a bit of a sad side of all this. People are also aware of the hashing, and I would imagine there is some technical way to hide your processes (there always is), meaning perhaps this method would be less efficient when used in the future. Can obviously contrast this to other methods of anti-cheating.

> >

> > The sad side of this is the people in the forums blindly defending ANET and claiming false bans are okay because ANET can do whatever they want

>

> It's not blindly defending ... it's simply accepting responsibility and acknowledging the space in which we play. Anet owns the accounts. They CAN do what they want with them. Accept it. That's NOT just an Anet thing either.

 

I don't know if you truly realized what you said....no matter what ToS are, if a game company ban people _**without reasons**_ even if they can legally do that, be sure that people will stop buying their products and said company will fail the more the news spreads.

[Evon Skyfyre.9673]

please remove

[Evon Skyfyre.9673]

please remove

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

> @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > @"OrbitalButt.5708" said:

> > This thread is an amazing assortment of the absolute worst analogies ever crafted by human hands

>

> Emotional people trying to explain away their sins tend to do that for lack of an actual explanation or else to lessen the impact of what they've done. Also video games. Most people here aren't writers.

 

QFT - Some of the responses have been more than telling. Defending cheaters is good, but defending the actions of ANet to get rid of them is bad because . . . reasons. Go figure. But that's forum logic for you.

 

> @"Zaraki.5784" said:

>

> Nah the point of this thread has shifted from what you said to "anet are bad people for spying us".

>

Sad, but true.

 

[Twoodi.5849]

> @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > > @"OrbitalButt.5708" said:

> > > This thread is an amazing assortment of the absolute worst analogies ever crafted by human hands

> >

> > Emotional people trying to explain away their sins tend to do that for lack of an actual explanation or else to lessen the impact of what they've done. Also video games. Most people here aren't writers.

>

> QFT - Some of the responses have been more than telling. Defending cheaters is good, but defending the actions of ANet to get rid of them is bad because . . . reasons. Go figure. But that's forum logic for you.

>

 

Not sure how you haven't noticed this yet but nobody is complaining about people being banned for having tools which sole purpose is to cheat in GW2. People are complaining about ANET including cheat engine in that list which has perfectly legitimate reasons for being on a users computer. They have no evidence that people with cheat engine were using it with Guild wars 2.

 

 

> > @"Zaraki.5784" said:

> >

> > Nah the point of this thread has shifted from what you said to "anet are bad people for spying us".

> >

> Sad, but true.

>

 

Depends on your morals, if you are fine with companies spying on you thats on you, but you cannot expect everyone to feel the same way.

 

 

 

 

[Sojourner.4621]

> @"Twoodi.5849" said:

> > @"Sojourner.4621" said:

> > > @"Twoodi.5849" said:

> > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said:

> > > > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Twoodi.5849" said:

> > > > > > > > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"Jinks.2057" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > > @"starhunter.6015" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > No they installed spyware on March 6th and removed it on March 27th on all our computers.

> > > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > > You need to do your research and come back when you understand the entire situation

> > > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > > It was not spyware, it was only checking processes running along with GW2. It scanned for nothing more. It collected no personal information, no location data, no passwords. It is not tracking what web sites you went too. Many MMO's run programs like this to check for cheats and hacks.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > No it opened each file and read it then sent it back to Anet servers.

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > That is the definition of spyware

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > > Read the link to the reddit post

> > > > > > > > > > Read it, yes.

> > > > > > > > > > It sends a list of hashed values, a hash is destructive and you can't get the original content back.

> > > > > > > > > > No "private" information, just a guess of what processes were used, which is required to detect a list of software they don't want you to use.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > Stop posting misinformation

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > They will then go through all processes and get their file names. Those file names are then fed into the very same hash function as before at 0x6F4E90, which will open the respective files, read all their content, create a MD5 hash of it and returns said hash, which are then, again, stored in a list for later use.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > While the list is submitted in form of hashes, those hashes are not salted, so they are trivially to reverse

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Do you even read what you post?

> > > > > > > > "create a MD5 hash of it and returns said hash"

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Seriously.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > While the list is submitted in form of hashes, those hashes are not salted, so they are trivial to reverse

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > A hash IS destructive, you will NOT get the value back. If you believe that I really hope you're not working in any job related with IT.

> > > > > > Encryption, compression, now you get the stuff back, but those are different things.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now, yes, they need the hash of "cheat engine" so that they can compare it with their own hash of "Cheat Engine" and conclude you are using it. That's why it's possible to figure out what processes are running. That's the whole point of this process, that they can detect if you're using something they don't want you to be using.

> > > > >

> > > > > Yes they are but they were unsalted which means you can still match it to databases and see what program it was and sending all that info across the internet is not okay. Hence why blizzards and others use a local database on the users system. It's a lazy "anti-cheat" considering its trivial to compile your own version, something as small as a 1 byte difference means it wont be detected.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > It is getting old. A method that catches 90% of the cheaters is still better than nothing. Salting this kind of information would be a waste of CPU time and energy.

> > >

> > > For you maybe ethically/morally but i prefer a system where 0 innocent people get punished.

> > >

> > > Like i said for the other programs that were created purely to cheat in GW2, sure they had no legitimate reason to be running those programs. But with Cheat engine the world isn't so black and white and as far as i am aware it's impossible to use it to cheat in GW2 as cheat engine cannot edit server side data.

> > >

> > > The official cheat engine forums themselves don't even allow users to post tables/tutorials for multiplayer games.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > That doesn't mean it isn't possible... GW2 relies heavily on the CLIENT side instance for things like positional data in order to combat latency, particularly for things that require split second timing like activating your glider just before you hit the ground. That means that the common "teleport hack" (there are also examples of it being used as a flying hack) can be done by using cheat engine to adjust the positional data that is being sent to the GW2 servers, causing your character to move to places that would otherwise not be possible. Most things are strictly server side, in particular actual character and inventory data, but positional data is largely client side. Cheat Engine can be and is used to manipulate this data before it is sent out (You can actually find examples on youtube of people doing this FOR GW2).

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> Those videos are fake.

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> Again it would've been very easy for ANET to detect if cheat engine was being used maliciously with GW2. They didn't bother doing this and still have no evidence people were using it maliciously.

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> > I already outlined one way they could have used to determine whether or not the Cheat Engine process is attached to the Guild Wars 2 process by simply checking the handles the Cheat Engine process has open. So there are definitely ways to figure it out. It would take less than 15 minutes to implement and can be done in probably less than 20 lines of code as well. So this is not at all some kind of technical limitation.

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1) No, not fake, it can be done. There are no "official" cheat tables for the game on CheatEngine's sites, but there are ones that edit the client side locational data on "premium" sites.

2) I am on record as saying that CheatEngine does have non-cheat uses, despite the name (Someone I know just got unbanned because they were using CE to English Language patch a Visual Novel) and that the checks should have been in place to see that Cheat Engine was very specifically being used to hook in to GW2 itself. I am on most other people's side on this, but spreading mis-information on whether or not Cheat Engine can actually effect GW2 or not is not helpful to the argument. It absolutely CAN be used to cheat in GW2, because the game absolutely DOES rely on client-side positioning data for many things (in particular and most especially mounts and gliding, something that was added because glider deployment was being heavily affected by latency and causing people to wrack up deaths.)

[Mokk.2397]

I think people are miss understanding a few things here. A macro is used to input 2 or more actions assigned to only ONE key .A key recorder /playback program ,used for music on say a harp,lute. etc. Records a key stroke per note and plays back those key strokes in a fashion that makes your music. This is not considered a macro.

Third party programs that reads the memory and/or the data file of the game then changes by deleting information ,adding information ,moving information on the screen is in violation of Section 8i of the user agreement. True overlays like Discord do not read anything from the game but bypasses the game entirely to overlay on the screen. TacO and arcdps ,with certain plugins, reads the memory and adds information to the screen .Which violates section 8i of the user agreement. All other third party programs mentioned by ANET are clear violations.

It is possible to incorporate sub routines in a program that monitor the memory ,including video memory ,CPU ,GPU and can detect whether a third party program is altering any addresses in the memory,CPU,GPU or video memory .This information can be sent back to ANET for analysis .Based on how a third party program manipulates certain addresses it can be determined which third party programs are being used. It is not necessary to scan your entire computer. Antivirus programs do this all the time .This is not in violation of privacy rights because the program designer has the right to monitor their own program.

If you got caught and got suspended TO BAD! It sucks to be you. All of us can learn from this. If at any time you are considering a third party program in any way with your game ,you can get advice from ANET .If you are the kind of person that blatantly uses cheats ,hacks and/or macros ,I hope your get banned for life.