Account suspension discussion [merged]

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

 

> The point is that you are not bound to the EULA or any other agreement if you were not shown it and agreed to it before buying the game (in Germany). When I go to the Anet webpage and purchase GW2, then get the download link and install the game, it's already too late for the EULA.

>

There are similar regulations in the state of California where I live.

 

That does not mean that you will get very far actually trying to litigate the matter but as it stands there are regulations on the book which require that the full contract, and an EULA is a contract, be present at the time of purchase in order to be legitimate.

 

[STIHL.2489]

Well, to all the players that are taking a stand against this, and plan to leave the game, for whatever reasons. I hope you and the cheaters you are standing with, find a nice game that you can all play together, without anyone imposing any rules or regulations on you and how you want to play the game.

[FrizzFreston.5290]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> Well, to all the players that are taking a stand against this, and plan to leave the game, for whatever reasons. I hope you and the cheaters you are standing with, find a nice game that you can all play together, without anyone imposing any rules or regulations on you and how you want to play the game.

 

Don't all games have game rules?

[STIHL.2489]

> @"FrizzFreston.5290" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > Well, to all the players that are taking a stand against this, and plan to leave the game, for whatever reasons. I hope you and the cheaters you are standing with, find a nice game that you can all play together, without anyone imposing any rules or regulations on you and how you want to play the game.

>

> Don't all games have game rules?

 

You would think.. but after reading this topic, I have seen that some players get upset when those rules get enforced, so, to all of them, both the cheaters and the enables, I hope they find a wonderful game to play together.. that is not this one.

[trueanimus.4085]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> Well, to all the players that are taking a stand against this, and plan to leave the game, for whatever reasons. I hope you and the cheaters you are standing with, find a nice game that you can all play together, without anyone imposing any rules or regulations on you and how you want to play the game.

 

i agree... like the barman said.. you cant stay here... you dont have to go home.... but you cant stay here =P

[Nightlark.4029]

> @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> Every poster I have responded to re CE asking them why they installed it, why it was running at same time as GW2 and what do they use it for... hmm silence so far - - > suspicious lots I am :)

 

I’ve said earlier why I have CE or similar tools, and why they _could_ be running while playing a game — tl;dr I’m using them as part of making an emulator that is compatible with games made for an old rpg game engine to preserve them (made for win98, last update over a decade ago). Picking up where I left off is easier if I just have it minimized, since sometimes getting back to what I was looking at before can take a while; VM snapshots are the closest thing to “saving where I left off”, but are slower than unminimizing.

 

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> You would think.. but after reading this topic, I have seen that some players get upset when those rules get enforced, so, to all of them, both the cheaters and the enables, I hope they find a wonderful game to play together.. that is not this one.

Ehh... my main issue with the current events is how they seemingly didn’t ensure sufficient evidence in all cases before banhammering, by leaving a gaping hole in the information they gathered on certain processes.

[trueanimus.4085]

> @"Belorn.2659" said:

> > @"trueanimus.4085" said:

> > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> > > > @"trueanimus.4085" said:

> > > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said:

> > > > > > @"trueanimus.4085" said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > > If you're in Germany or the EU in general try reading the EULA. You have a remedy. You can have your money refunded and your account deleted.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > EULA means everything in situations like this... basically by signing in , you are agreeing to let them do whatever they want. But that is kind of funny when you state it like that lol

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Could you point out the part of the EULA that allows them to do whatever they want? What if they wipe out your hard drive in case you might be cheating? Can they use it to mine bitcoin?

> > > >

> > > > When there is a patch... you agree by loading the launcher to add the patch correct? It has to make changes to your HD to do so.. correct? By loading the game, you have already given them access to your HD.

> > > >

> > > > They cant legally snoop your pc for your information... bank accounts, cc numbers etc.. but.. as a part of the software (as with most software these days) they can gather information reliant to the game and making sure it runs correctly on your system, i am sure there is a section in the EULA about agreeing to a listing of processes running on your pc for diagnostic use or something pretty close.

> > > >

> > > > Most software EULA's has this and a section that by running said program, you agree not to sue them in case of damages etc.. blah blah.. you know the drill.

> > > >

> > > > I didn't mean they could wipe your HD etc for cheating.. but they can snoop simple things such as processes lists if it pertains to diagnostics.

> > >

> > > Well, you said "everything" and that was going on a bit not just by you, and I was wondering where that went. And them updating the game is a necessary thing to even be able to play the game. They may install updates. it doesn't mean they can install anything.

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Oh and btw.... i think that is covered under montoring

> > > >

> > > > 7. PRIVACY AND DATA PROTECTION

> > > > It is Your responsibility to read, understand and accept the Privacy Policy in effect in connection with Your use of the Service. You acknowledge that ArenaNet may make changes to the Privacy Policy at any time. You also acknowledge that each and every time You click “I ACCEPT” You warrant and represent that You did read, understand and accept the most recent version of the Privacy Policy in effect at that time.

> > > > ArenaNet has no obligation under any circumstances to review any information, feedback or communication related to the Game. ArenaNet may, in its reasonable discretion, choose to review any information, feedback or communication **related to the Game**. ArenaNet may take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on any information, feedback or communication **related to the Game**, including but not limited to publicly commenting upon or publishing the foregoing. ArenaNet has no obligation to explain any decision to take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on any information, feedback or communication related to the Game. **You acknowledge, and further agree, that You have no obligation to provide ArenaNet any information, feedback or communications **related to the Game.** In addition to the provisions of Section 13 below, You further agree to defend, indemnify and hold harmless ArenaNet with respect to any claim related to any information, feedback or communications You provide under this Section 7(b).

> > > >ArenaNet has no obligation under any circumstances to monitor Conduct or other activities related to the Game. ArenaNet may **in its reasonable discretion**, choose to monitor Conduct or other activities **related to the Game**.You consent to the foregoing monitoring and acknowledge that ArenaNet may conduct such monitoring, including but not limited to monitoring in-Game communications and Message Boards provided by ArenaNet as well as third-party Message Boards and the like. You also acknowledge that ArenaNet may take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on such monitoring, including but not limited to action under Section 5, and that ArenaNet has no obligation to explain any decision to take any action, or no action whatsoever, based on such monitoring.**

> > > > **

> > >

> > > Emphasis mine.

> > >

> > > When it comes to the game itself. I agree you have no privacy because you are playing in Arenanet's house. They call the shots and can ban you as they see fit. As a result, they can definitely check my computer to see if I am running a hacking program. But past that, they're in my house.

> >

> > Think you missed this part in section d

> > INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO MONITORING COMMUNICATIONS AND COMMUNICATIONS INTERFACES, STORAGE DEVICES, RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY, OR CPU PROCESSES RELATED TO HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME. SUCH MONITORING MAY ALSO INCLUDE, BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO, MONITORING FOR THE PURPOSES OF DETECTING THE GAME UNDER SECTION 8© or 8(e). YOU CONSENT TO THE FOREGOING MONITORING AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ArenaNet MAY, AT ANY TIME, AND IN ANY MANNER, COMMUNICATE ANY INFORMATION BETWEEN HARDWARE YOU USE WITH THE GAME AND ANY MECHANISM ArenaNet MAY CHOOSE FOR SUCH COMMUNICATIONS.

> >

> > they can monitor you at any time and ban you for anything they see fit. This includes monitoring your process list, ram and HD and even the connection to the server... period.

>

> But do they have a right to store keep that in records and then for how long. Privacy laws and especially EU law focus more on the storage and record keeping rather than MONITORING.

>

> GDPR for example focus large parts on pseudonymisation and data breach protection. If it just monitoring in order to determine cheating that is a mostly fine. Its a cost that many players is willing to pay. If they keep permanent records that later can be part of data breaches, without any salt or other protections, then there is a major issue with the method they employ to catch cheaters.

>

> Could you quote the section about data retention from cpu process lists?

 

no one said they are keeping it in their records... at all.. They used it to ban people.. and they said no appeals.. so im guessing the data is already deleted.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

> @"misterman.1530" said:

> > @"Grogba.6204" said:

>

> > Edit: Oh wait! I cheated the kitten out of the Age of Empires games, Anno series, Turok on the N64 and modded Steam games beyond repair. Clearly I am just as guilty to do this in an MMO as I am in single player games or multiplayer games according to you, aren't I?

>

> Well, if it walks like duck, smells like a duck, sounds like a duck...chances are it's a duck.

>

> This whole "I didn't cheat though...sniffle" sounds a bit like the old joke that everyone in prison is innocent. If you don't like Anet's answer, quit the game. There...done. Frankly, I plan on buying more gems as a thank you!

 

Pretty much, but let's review:

 

1. Oh my God. They suspended me! I don't use cheats!

2. Oh my God. I only use Taco or Arc. I don't cheat!

3. Oh my God. Yes, I use cheats, but not with Guild Wars 2.

4. Oh my God. How dare ANet check up on my computer without telling me . . . even though I clicked 'I agree' that they could.

5. Oh my God. Cheat Engine isn't just used for cheats! I also use it for X, Y, Z!

6. Oh my God. ANet is so shady. They don't have proof I used cheats with Guild Wars 2! I just . . . um . . . left it running in the background.

7. Oh my God. Who reads the EULA? It's not my fault I clicked it without knowing what it meant.

8. Oh my God. I can't believe you people are defending ANet. They infringed on my rights! They need to delete the evidence!

9. Oh my God. These rules and laws don't apply to me! I'm from this country and not the U.S.! I'm gonna sue!

10. Oh my God. EULA is confusing! But I still don't think I did anything wrong. ANet still has no proof. Witch hunt!

 

And now everyone is caught up.

 

Edit: Please note, I'm not making a judgment on anyone. I'm just saying this is how the thread progressed as far as the opposition's remarks on ANet's actions.

[Rajani Isa.6294]

> @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > @"Faaris.8013" said:

> > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > > > @"ffletcher.3468" said:

> > > > > "Monitoring" in my view does not involve data transfers from my computer to their servers.

> > > >

> > > > How do they take action if what was monitored cannot be reported to them.......

> > > >

> > > > I feel like we're back two decade where people are slowly figuring out what the internet is.

> > >

> > > It's funny that it's mostly techies here (and on reddit) who can explain why the tool is spyware and violates your privacy. We know exactly how the Internet and computers work, what processes are and packages and how encrypting works. People who haven't figured out how things work usually have no issue with it. Those who only have a vague understanding of things tend to trust authorites more.

> >

> > It ... doesn't change the fact that you accept to be monitored to an extend by agreeing to the ToS.

> >

> > And that in order to fight cheaters, at some point they need some information about what you're doing.

>

> Except, your fact is not a fact. Firstly, the ToS do not apply to me for legal reasons in Europe. But that doesn't really matter, I get it. Fact is that even if they applied to me, I never consented in Anet pulling data about all software that is running on my computer and sending it to their servers basically unencrypted. That clearly extends the kind of monitoring I accepted. If you accept to being monitored in other games, you accept that the tool they install checks if you run anything related to their client, and that's exactly what they do. They don't scan folders or software that doesn't interfere with their client.

>

> There is a principle in IT security that's called Principle of least privilege:

>

> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_least_privilege

>

> > In information security, computer science, and other fields, the principle of least privilege (PoLP, also known as the principle of minimal privilege or the principle of least authority) requires that in a particular abstraction layer of a computing environment, every module (such as a process, a user, or a program, depending on the subject) must be able to access only the information and resources that are necessary for its legitimate purpose.

>

> It's really one of the basic principles and the developer who created the tool knows it. Either he willingly ignored it, or he was asked by management to do so after he told them about it. Maybe Anet wanted the additional information that was not neccessary for the tool to work. Maybe they are making money with it, I'm pretty sure there are lots of companies who would be interested in data (even anonymized) about what kind of software is installed/running on thousands of computers of people who like to play MMO games. It's even interesting for ArenaNet and NCSoft. Honestly, if I were in charge there, I would be very tempted to use that data instead of deleting it.

 

So you are saying checking what processes are running is beyond what is needed for anti-cheat software?

 

I myself wonder exactly what was sent - if ChrisCleary would share if it was only processes that were on a list or all that was sent would be nice - but getting upset at cheat module checking running processes is silly.

[Nightlark.4029]

> @"Ardenwolfe.8590" said:

> > @"misterman.1530" said:

> > > @"Grogba.6204" said:

> >

> > > Edit: Oh wait! I cheated the kitten out of the Age of Empires games, Anno series, Turok on the N64 and modded Steam games beyond repair. Clearly I am just as guilty to do this in an MMO as I am in single player games or multiplayer games according to you, aren't I?

> >

> > Well, if it walks like duck, smells like a duck, sounds like a duck...chances are it's a duck.

> >

> > This whole "I didn't cheat though...sniffle" sounds a bit like the old joke that everyone in prison is innocent. If you don't like Anet's answer, quit the game. There...done. Frankly, I plan on buying more gems as a thank you!

>

> Pretty much. Let's review:

>

> 1. Oh my God. They suspended me! I don't use cheats!

> 2. Oh my God. I only use Taco or Arc. I don't cheat!

> 3. Oh my God. Yes, I use cheats, but not with Guild Wars 2.

> 4. Oh my God. How dare ANet check up on my without telling me . . . even though I clicked 'I agree' that they could.

> 5. Oh my God. Cheat Engine isn't just used for cheats! I also use it for X, Y, Z!

> 6. Oh my God. ANet is so shady. They don't have proof I used cheats with Guild Wars 2! I just . . . um . . . left it running in the background.

> 7. Oh my God. Who reads the EULA? It's not my fault I clicked it without knowing what it meant.

> 8. Oh my God. I can't believe you people are defending ANet. They infringed on my rights!

> 9. Oh my God. These rules and laws don't apply to me! I'm from this country and not the U.S.! I'm gonna sue!

 

5. Well, I tried to give some uses for CE other than cheating, at this point I probably can’t say anything to change what anyone believes about or the truthfulness of what I say regarding it.

 

Edit: reworded and removed the part that came across as a personal attack. Sorry @"Ardenwolfe.8590"

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"GreyWolf.8670" said:

> > @"Faaris.8013" said:

>

> > The point is that you are not bound to the EULA or any other agreement if you were not shown it and agreed to it before buying the game (in Germany). When I go to the Anet webpage and purchase GW2, then get the download link and install the game, it's already too late for the EULA.

> >

>

> No. You must agree to the EULA when you create your account **before** can you buy the game from ArenaNet **or** play it.

 

Exactly. I haven't seen ANY MMO where you don't click on agreement at SOME point and if you don't, you don't get access to the game ... EVEN in Germany.

[Ardenwolfe.8590]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

>

> Exactly. I haven't seen ANY MMO where you don't click on agreement at SOME point and if you don't, you don't get access to the game ... EVEN in Germany.

 

Bingo.

[morrolan.9608]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > > @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > > > @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > > @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > > > > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > > > > > Also, even having a salt does not necessarily protect you, if the formula (for example md5) is known and the salt is unique per client, anet still need to keep track of which client is using which salt in order to generate a set of hashes for the unauthorized programs per client.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So what? Nobody said its easy to legally keep hackers away from your software. Anet went with the most lazy approach, and the one doing most damage to innocent bystanders.

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > But no damage has been done at all. I wish people with zero knowledge about this would stop talking.

> > > >

> > > > So those people who say had Cheat Engine for legitimate uses who got banned are irrelevant? This sure is a great community.

> > > >

> > >

> > > CheatEngine has legitimate uses. Having CheatEngine running while you're playing GW2 or indeed any online multiplayer game is stupid. CheatEngine being on your system isn't what got anyone banned. Having CheatEngine running while GW2 was running is what flagged accounts for a ban.

> >

> > Yet we've been able to do it for 6 years, now without warning they get a ban without actually doing anything.

>

> Oh sure, they weren't doing anything :wink: :wink: just like I never speed.

 

You need to do some research into CheatEngine. Its functionality is such that it is widely used outside of games and its mostly used for single player games anyway.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > > > @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > > > > @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > > > @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > > > > > > Also, even having a salt does not necessarily protect you, if the formula (for example md5) is known and the salt is unique per client, anet still need to keep track of which client is using which salt in order to generate a set of hashes for the unauthorized programs per client.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So what? Nobody said its easy to legally keep hackers away from your software. Anet went with the most lazy approach, and the one doing most damage to innocent bystanders.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But no damage has been done at all. I wish people with zero knowledge about this would stop talking.

> > > > >

> > > > > So those people who say had Cheat Engine for legitimate uses who got banned are irrelevant? This sure is a great community.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > CheatEngine has legitimate uses. Having CheatEngine running while you're playing GW2 or indeed any online multiplayer game is stupid. CheatEngine being on your system isn't what got anyone banned. Having CheatEngine running while GW2 was running is what flagged accounts for a ban.

> > >

> > > Yet we've been able to do it for 6 years, now without warning they get a ban without actually doing anything.

> >

> > Oh sure, they weren't doing anything :wink: :wink: just like I never speed.

>

> You need to do some research into CheatEngine. Its functionality is such that it is widely used outside of games and its mostly used for single player games anyway.

 

yah,, I keep telling the nice police officers that my radar detector was not on, and that it has many other uses too.. :wink: :wink:

 

Well I wish you the same luck with Anet that I had with the judge.

[morrolan.9608]

> @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> Not going to read all of this, but have a question about a general trend I see.

>

> Is there evidence ANet banned for simply having the software and not interacting it with gw2 beyond the hearsay of the banned?

>

> It keeps getting said that this is what they did when their statement specified tampering with the game.

>

> Evidence of the contrary?

 

Their statement specifically mentions being banned for merely running one of the programs while GW2 was running, there is no reference to the spyware checking if there was interaction between GW2 and the program, likely because the spyware was pretty basic.

[CETheLucid.3964]

> @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > > > @"CETheLucid.3964" said:

> > > > > @"morrolan.9608" said:

> > > > > > @"Malediktus.9250" said:

> > > > > > > @"Yasi.9065" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Deihnyx.6318" said:

> > > > > > > > Also, even having a salt does not necessarily protect you, if the formula (for example md5) is known and the salt is unique per client, anet still need to keep track of which client is using which salt in order to generate a set of hashes for the unauthorized programs per client.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So what? Nobody said its easy to legally keep hackers away from your software. Anet went with the most lazy approach, and the one doing most damage to innocent bystanders.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > But no damage has been done at all. I wish people with zero knowledge about this would stop talking.

> > > > >

> > > > > So those people who say had Cheat Engine for legitimate uses who got banned are irrelevant? This sure is a great community.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > CheatEngine has legitimate uses. Having CheatEngine running while you're playing GW2 or indeed any online multiplayer game is stupid. CheatEngine being on your system isn't what got anyone banned. Having CheatEngine running while GW2 was running is what flagged accounts for a ban.

> > >

> > > Yet we've been able to do it for 6 years, now without warning they get a ban without actually doing anything.

> >

> > Oh sure, they weren't doing anything :wink: :wink: just like I never speed.

>

> You need to do some research into CheatEngine. Its functionality is such that it is widely used outside of games and its mostly used for single player games anyway.

 

We've established that. It's also used to cheat in GW2. Any guesses as to why it was included in the banwave?

[Samnang.1879]

they all deserved the ban. it's what the ToS, that nobody reads, is for. You can't sue them or blame them because you agreed.

 

![](https://i.imgur.com/OBDE6OV.gif"")

 

 

[Tinnel.4369]

> @"FerrenoNL.7928" said:

> > @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> > > @"Ewon.5903" said:

> > > > @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> > > > > @"Ewon.5903" said:

> > > > > > @"Tinnel.4369" said:

> > > > > > their statement specified tampering with the game.

> > > > >

> > > > > Where did it say tampering with the game? I only saw it say "at the same time".

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Quoted from the message the actual banned were given.

> > >

> > > So, not their statement, but rather from the support GM?

> >

> > I'll be dammed if I can find it now, this thread is a mess, but it referred to the message they were given when opening the game to find themselves banned.

>

> The exact message for me (running CE alongside GW2, without actually tampering with the game) reads:

>

> Your Guild Wars 2 account has been suspended for modifying or tampering with the game, which is a breach of the User Agreement and Rules of Conduct. Access will be restored in 4224 hours

 

@"morrolan.9608"

[STIHL.2489]

Ok... step up..the _wrongly accused_ and make your plea..

 

So .. Cheat-Engine, used to cheat at GW2, can also be used to modify Single Player Games, but has _other uses_ well.. ok, explain to me what _Other_ Legitimate Use anyone would have to have this programming running in the background on their personal computer, for _significant amount of hours across a multi-week time period_ , while playing GW2.

 

I'll give you all a chance to change my mind that you're not filthy cheaters.

[Nightlark.4029]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> Ok... step up..the _wrongly accused_ and make your plea..

>

> So .. Cheat-Engine, used to cheat at GW2, can also be used to modify Single Player Games, but has _other uses_ well.. ok, explain to me what _Other_ Legitimate Use anyone would have to have this programming running in the background on their personal computer, for _significant amount of hours across a multi-week time period_ , while playing GW2.

>

> I'll give you all a chance to change my mind that you're not filthy cheaters.

I've already explained other uses _multiple times_, and why it could be left running in the background (in the middle of a project debugging another program, much lower friction to just leave it running in the background than to close everything and spend 5-10 minutes getting back to where you left off). Fine, choose to be ignorant, just kill me already.

 

Though I guess I don't fall into the _wrongly accused_ category (considering I haven't been banned), so maybe that's why what I'm saying falls on deaf ears.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Nightlark.4029" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > Ok... step up..the _wrongly accused_ and make your plea..

> >

> > So .. Cheat-Engine, used to cheat at GW2, can also be used to modify Single Player Games, but has _other uses_ well.. ok, explain to me what _Other_ Legitimate Use anyone would have to have this programming running in the background on their personal computer, for _significant amount of hours across a multi-week time period_ , while playing GW2.

> >

> > I'll give you all a chance to change my mind that you're not filthy cheaters.

> I've already explained other uses _multiple times_, and why it could be left running in the background (in the middle of a project debugging another program, much lower friction to just leave it running in the background than to close everything and spend 5-10 minutes getting back to where you left off). Fine, choose to be ignorant, just kill me already.

>

> Though I guess I don't fall into the _wrongly accused_ category (considering I haven't been banned), so maybe that's why what I'm saying falls on deaf ears.

 

So, tell me, why would someone be doing project debugging on their _home computer_ for _substantial amounts of hours across a multi-week time frame_ while playing GW2 at the same time?

 

I mean, while if it was their work computer, (Which is a great way to get fired just FYI) at the very least, this would be a programmer, who, lets be real, knows what this program is commonly used for, so they can't feign ignorance of what they are using, and secondly, a programmer would read the EULA, as they often work by them.

 

You know, I'd believe you, if it was a one time thing, but this was for a _substantial amount of hours across a multi-week time frame_.

 

So, nahh.. not going to buy that _project debugging_ line.

 

Care to try again,.. maybe this time with something remotely believable?

 

also, if you haven't been vacationed.. then you are an enabler, which to be honest, is worse then a cheater.

[Nightlark.4029]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > @"Nightlark.4029" said:

> > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > Ok... step up..the _wrongly accused_ and make your plea..

> > >

> > > So .. Cheat-Engine, used to cheat at GW2, can also be used to modify Single Player Games, but has _other uses_ well.. ok, explain to me what _Other_ Legitimate Use anyone would have to have this programming running in the background on their personal computer, for _significant amount of hours across a multi-week time period_ , while playing GW2.

> > >

> > > I'll give you all a chance to change my mind that you're not filthy cheaters.

> > I've already explained other uses _multiple times_, and why it could be left running in the background (in the middle of a project debugging another program, much lower friction to just leave it running in the background than to close everything and spend 5-10 minutes getting back to where you left off). Fine, choose to be ignorant, just kill me already.

> >

> > Though I guess I don't fall into the _wrongly accused_ category (considering I haven't been banned), so maybe that's why what I'm saying falls on deaf ears.

>

> So, tell me, why would someone be doing project debugging on their _home computer_ for _substantial amounts of hours across a multi-week time frame_ while playing GW2 at the same time?

>

> I mean, while if it was their work computer, (Which is a great way to get fired just FYI) at the very least, this would be a programmer, who, lets be real, knows what this program is commonly used for, so they can't feign ignorance of what they are using, and secondly, a programmer would read the EULA, as they often work by them.

>

> You know, I'd believe you, if it was a one time thing, but this was for a _substantial amount of hours across a multi-week time frame_.

>

> So, nahh.. not going to buy that _project debugging_ line.

>

> Care to try again,.. maybe this time with something remotely believable?

>

> also, if you haven't been vacationed.. then you are an enabler, which to be honest, is worse then a cheater.

 

All I can say is.. wow... seriously, I'm rather hurt that you're calling me worse than a cheater and a liar, when I've explained multiple times why a program like CE might be open for days at a time -- ever heard of side/personal projects? Or freelancers whose home computer is also their work computer? I have a program open in IDA right now that I've been working on reverse engineering for **years** just for the fun of it and the learning experience (personal projects helped with getting my current job), and IDA has been open for the the past _two weeks_. The same thing happens sometimes with having a program open in a debugger -- when I get home from work I want to _get stuff done_ and be able to pick up where I left off in the middle of a function instead of spending time getting back to where I was the other day. It is up to you if you want to buy it or not, but it is the truth -- I know that, and if you don't want to believe it, well, nothing I can say will make you.. just kill me and don't bother replying, because I doubt you've worked on a reverse engineering project for fun, and probably never will -- which is why you will continue to find it unbelievable.

[GreyWolf.8670]

> @"Nightlark.4029" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Nightlark.4029" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > Ok... step up..the _wrongly accused_ and make your plea..

> > > >

> > > > So .. Cheat-Engine, used to cheat at GW2, can also be used to modify Single Player Games, but has _other uses_ well.. ok, explain to me what _Other_ Legitimate Use anyone would have to have this programming running in the background on their personal computer, for _significant amount of hours across a multi-week time period_ , while playing GW2.

> > > >

> > > > I'll give you all a chance to change my mind that you're not filthy cheaters.

> > > I've already explained other uses _multiple times_, and why it could be left running in the background (in the middle of a project debugging another program, much lower friction to just leave it running in the background than to close everything and spend 5-10 minutes getting back to where you left off). Fine, choose to be ignorant, just kill me already.

> > >

> > > Though I guess I don't fall into the _wrongly accused_ category (considering I haven't been banned), so maybe that's why what I'm saying falls on deaf ears.

> >

> > So, tell me, why would someone be doing project debugging on their _home computer_ for _substantial amounts of hours across a multi-week time frame_ while playing GW2 at the same time?

> >

> > I mean, while if it was their work computer, (Which is a great way to get fired just FYI) at the very least, this would be a programmer, who, lets be real, knows what this program is commonly used for, so they can't feign ignorance of what they are using, and secondly, a programmer would read the EULA, as they often work by them.

> >

> > You know, I'd believe you, if it was a one time thing, but this was for a _substantial amount of hours across a multi-week time frame_.

> >

> > So, nahh.. not going to buy that _project debugging_ line.

> >

> > Care to try again,.. maybe this time with something remotely believable?

> >

> > also, if you haven't been vacationed.. then you are an enabler, which to be honest, is worse then a cheater.

>

> All I can say is.. wow... seriously, I'm rather hurt that you're calling me worse than a cheater and a liar, when I've explained multiple times why a program like CE might be open for days at a time -- ever heard of side/personal projects? Or freelancers whose home computer is also their work computer? I have a program open in IDA right now that I've been working on reverse engineering for **years** just for the fun of it and the learning experience (personal projects helped with getting my current job), and IDA has been open for the the past _two weeks_. The same thing happens sometimes with having a program open in a debugger -- when I get home from work I want to _get stuff done_ and be able to pick up where I left off in the middle of a function instead of spending time getting back to where I was the other day. It is up to you if you want to buy it or not, but it is the truth -- I know that, and if you don't want to believe it, well, nothing I can say will make you.. just kill me and don't bother replying, because I doubt you've worked on a reverse engineering project for fun, and probably never will -- which is why you will continue to find it unbelievable.

 

You're using a disassembler that costs thousands of dollars for a "for fun" project?

 

And no, I generally close down all of my development software when I'm not using it.

[STIHL.2489]

> @"Nightlark.4029" said:

> > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > @"Nightlark.4029" said:

> > > > @"STIHL.2489" said:

> > > > Ok... step up..the _wrongly accused_ and make your plea..

> > > >

> > > > So .. Cheat-Engine, used to cheat at GW2, can also be used to modify Single Player Games, but has _other uses_ well.. ok, explain to me what _Other_ Legitimate Use anyone would have to have this programming running in the background on their personal computer, for _significant amount of hours across a multi-week time period_ , while playing GW2.

> > > >

> > > > I'll give you all a chance to change my mind that you're not filthy cheaters.

> > > I've already explained other uses _multiple times_, and why it could be left running in the background (in the middle of a project debugging another program, much lower friction to just leave it running in the background than to close everything and spend 5-10 minutes getting back to where you left off). Fine, choose to be ignorant, just kill me already.

> > >

> > > Though I guess I don't fall into the _wrongly accused_ category (considering I haven't been banned), so maybe that's why what I'm saying falls on deaf ears.

> >

> > So, tell me, why would someone be doing project debugging on their _home computer_ for _substantial amounts of hours across a multi-week time frame_ while playing GW2 at the same time?

> >

> > I mean, while if it was their work computer, (Which is a great way to get fired just FYI) at the very least, this would be a programmer, who, lets be real, knows what this program is commonly used for, so they can't feign ignorance of what they are using, and secondly, a programmer would read the EULA, as they often work by them.

> >

> > You know, I'd believe you, if it was a one time thing, but this was for a _substantial amount of hours across a multi-week time frame_.

> >

> > So, nahh.. not going to buy that _project debugging_ line.

> >

> > Care to try again,.. maybe this time with something remotely believable?

> >

> > also, if you haven't been vacationed.. then you are an enabler, which to be honest, is worse then a cheater.

>

> All I can say is.. wow... seriously, I'm rather hurt that you're calling me worse than a cheater and a liar, when I've explained multiple times why a program like CE might be open for days at a time -- ever heard of side/personal projects? Or freelancers whose home computer is also their work computer? I have a program open in IDA right now that I've been working on reverse engineering for **years** just for the fun of it and the learning experience (personal projects helped with getting my current job), and IDA has been open for the the past _two weeks_. The same thing happens sometimes with having a program open in a debugger -- when I get home from work I want to _get stuff done_ and be able to pick up where I left off in the middle of a function instead of spending time getting back to where I was the other day. It is up to you if you want to buy it or not, but it is the truth -- I know that, and if you don't want to believe it, well, nothing I can say will make you.. just kill me and don't bother replying, because I doubt you've worked on a reverse engineering project for fun, and probably never will -- which is why you will continue to find it unbelievable.

 

First, I never called you a liar, and I am insulted that you have said that lie about me.

 

Second: Yes, enablers are far worse then cheaters, as at least a cheater knows and understands what they are doing is wrong, that they are breaking the rules by cheating, and will get punished if caught, where an enabler tries to justify the actions of the cheater as not being wrong.

 

Finally: If you want to enable cheaters and hack programs in the games you play, I can will at least respect that is what you want, and wish you good luck and good fortune in finding a game where you can play freely with them, but, I don't want it to be this game.

 

Good day.

[morrolan.9608]

> @"STIHL.2489" said:

> Ok... step up..the _wrongly accused_ and make your plea..

>

> So .. Cheat-Engine, used to cheat at GW2, can also be used to modify Single Player Games, but has _other uses_ well.. ok, explain to me what _Other_ Legitimate Use anyone would have to have this programming running in the background on their personal computer, for _significant amount of hours across a multi-week time period_ , while playing GW2.

>

> I'll give you all a chance to change my mind that you're not filthy cheaters.

 

One guy on reddit was told BY ARENANET that he was suspended for having one of the banned programs running alongside GW2 for 1.5 hours. Not significant at all.