Account suspension discussion [merged]

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"TexZero.7910" said:

> > @"Twoodi.5849" said:

> > I don't mind any ANET devs looking into my case and if i am a liar posting it here, I am 100% certain i have not knowingly done anything wrong.

>

> No one is calling you a liar. It's just that ANet doesn't care whether you knowingly did something wrong or not in this case.

> According to their detection algorithms you did and that's all that matters.

>

 

This.. as I said if you are hit under a false positive then you will likely get a pass on appeal (if anet do consider any appeals after their statement). but something triggered the security alert and each one is very likely checked, especially in light of previous false positive issues..

However.. these are not some random sites forum.. these are the go to sites for cheats and oh boy they do like to brag about their hacks and fruits they gain from using them... small as I think it is.

No I am now of the mind this is the result of anet monitoring data over a period time and they got to a point they think they have caught enough accounts to make a show and go of it and fired for effect.. small as it probably is in the grand scheme of the problem.. looking at just how players have been downloading the multihacks form just that one site... 1500 is small fry.

 

As far as I know music macro's are allowed so .. hopefully you are one of those innocent victims.. only ANET can clear that up though

[artemis.6781]

> @"Vault Girl.6792" said:

> > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > I think that the six month ban is the warning: next time it will probably be a permanent one.

>

> By "warning" I meant something like "We've detected that you are using third-party software that violates our rules, you have one week to uninstall it".

 

But then people would find another route to cheat.

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > Have you seen his end i am sorry but i dont belive anyone innocent until proved otherwise sorry

>

> 1. Anet doesnt post proves either.

> 2. Unjustified bans happened in the past and anet revoked them.

>

> So again, as players we should believe noone. Neither anet nor those who claim innocence

 

Actually ANET have come out and posted proof on certain posters who come here and vehemently claim they re innocent.. and it is hilarious when it happens almost as enjoyable as having Dhuum come down in GW1 :)

[Vault Girl.6792]

> @"artemis.6781" said:

> But then people would find another route to cheat.

 

Only if they actually intend to cheat, and not just using programs for other purposes.

I believe it's better than banning a lot of people who didn't cheat.

[SaMaeL.7412]

> @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> WRONG.. they said they can be used at your own risk.. if those third party programs are altered, revised etc and then trigger a security flag.. then you run the risk of account action. ANET do not support the programs and are not responsible for its integrity, validity and conformance.. it triggers your gunna get stung simple as that.

 

Again you don't make any sense.. What does use at your own risk mean?

Either a program is prohibited and will get you banned or it is not... If they can't control those developers then simply state that all 3rd party programs are not allowed.

 

But GM's have said that programs like taco arcdps and reshade are safe. And if they were to ban people who use these, that would be the half gw2 population... So please stop implying that they banned people for using arcdps/reshade/taco etc cos u make yourselves look like fools.

So obviously they did not ban people for that reason. They banned them for botting or using multi-tools and such.

 

Personally i don't use any more programs than the average gw2 player (and even those sit idle, as I said i use ardps to see fps/ping, taco last used at xmas and gw2hook disabled cos it drops my fps) yet I got my self banned. I don't do anything but log in collect the reward and if in the mood play 1 pvp match and that's it. No need to hack no need to bot or anything to risk my 30k ap cos simply I play the game just for a few minutes every game (once in a blue moon i might do AB or gerent). Also my other accounts which again are used for log in rewards are not banned...

 

Therefore anet are obliged to review my case. If they find any suspicious activity i want them to tell me exactly what it is that got me banned. If it was by mistake I would expect some kind of refund for the days that my account could not be accessed like missed log in rewards and 2g per day from the pvp daily...

 

[TexZero.7910]

> @"Twoodi.5849" said:

> I got punished a lot more than the guy that was selling PVP wins for real world money.

 

I mean this i can empathize with to an extent.

 

There is something to be said about length of punishment and type for the action. It may be in ANets interest going forward to have a more detailed policy that is front facing when it comes to actions and length/type of punishment.

 

That said...EULA exist and so long as it has the following clause (https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-user-agreement/ see 5B ) they dont have to do that.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"SaMaeL.7412" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > Again, it's been VERY clear, using 3rd party programs is at the PLAYER'S risk. As I can remember, even if Anet DID flag some programs as useable, that doesn't remove the risk of using those programs for the player; Anet is not going to validate every 3rd party thing when they probably aren't really keen on players using that software in the first place. Why would they take such a strong stance on it if they weren't? If something changed in any 3rd party thing that Anet didn't like, you're going to get slammed hard. Any game that DOESN'T send that message is just ripe for hackers and cheaters to find and poke holes in it anyway they can. Anet can't allow that to happen. A strong message must be sent.

> >

> > I'm not even sure what programs got these people banned, so I'm not going to assume it was the one you are referencing as getting the thumbs up ... it doesn't really matter. People took a risk ... now they got the heavy ban hammer. I've YET to play a game that doesn't take 3rd party software as seriously as Anet has here.

>

> Dude u are not even making sense... Did u even read what u wrote???

>

> Anet GM's have said taco and arcdps are safe to use.. If anet flagged some programs as usable then those programs are risk free and they have no right to ban players for using them. If you don't want people to use 3rd party programs then don't accept any as usable. simple as that

 

No, anet said that people were free to use them at that time. They further said that doing so was at the plaher's own risk because anet would not be expending resources to monitor updates to third part software. They additionally stated that players using third party software that, even if compliant at one time, had strayed out of compliance could have their accounts actioned.

[Healix.5819]

> @"Pifil.5193" said:

> I think that the six month ban is the warning: next time it will probably be a permanent one.

 

6 months is their maximum penalty. The idea is that people are less likely to do it again if they can recover, whereas a permanent suspension only encourages them to try again on a new account.

[Pifil.5193]

> @"Healix.5819" said:

> > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > I think that the six month ban is the warning: next time it will probably be a permanent one.

>

> 6 months is their maximum penalty. The idea is that people are less likely to do it again if they can recover, whereas a permanent suspension only encourages them to try again on a new account.

 

Oh... that's an interesting notion. I wonder if it pans out that way, especially for PvP where you're not really losing much by just creating a new account for the 6 month ban period anyway.

[freeman.7315]

I think Anet could have actually saved all those who got banned by mistake if they would simply make an official in-game dmg meter and a build template. But hey,i guess instead of doing something that would actually improve the quality of the game and stop most people from using these 3rd party software, they would rather make sittable chairs. Yeah....

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"SaMaeL.7412" said:

> > @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > WRONG.. they said they can be used at your own risk.. if those third party programs are altered, revised etc and then trigger a security flag.. then you run the risk of account action. ANET do not support the programs and are not responsible for its integrity, validity and conformance.. it triggers your gunna get stung simple as that.

>

> Again you don't make any sense.. What does use at your own risk mean?

> Either a program is prohibited and will get you banned or it is not... If they can't control those developers then simply state that all 3rd party programs are not allowed.

>

> But GM's have said that programs like taco arcdps and reshade are safe. And if they were to ban people who use these, that would be the half gw2 population... So please stop implying that they banned people for using arcdps/reshade/taco etc cos u make yourselves look like fools.

> So obviously they did not ban people for that reason. They banned them for botting or using multi-tools and such.

>

> Personally i don't use any more programs than the average gw2 player (and even those sit idle, as I said i use ardps to see fps/ping, taco last used at xmas and gw2hook disabled cos it drops my fps) yet I got my self banned. I don't do anything but log in collect the reward and if in the mood play 1 pvp match and that's it. No need to hack no need to bot or anything to risk my 30k ap cos simply I play the game just for a few minutes every game (once in a blue moon i might do AB or gerent).

>

> Therefore anet are obliged to review my case. If they find any suspicious activity i want them to tell me exactly what it is that got me banned. If it was by mistake I would expect some kind of refund for the days that my account could not be accessed like missed log in rewards and 2g per day from the pvp daily...

>

 

Of course it makes sense.. ANET gave it a thumbs up in its original format.. since that time there will have been a host of updates and revisions because IT is a fickle thing and when one thing changes another has to change in line with it.. take Windows for example.. how many updates has windows had since you installed any 3rd party program, how many changes have those 3rd party programs been revised in order to work with it.. but anet have stated once that program is altered they do not go out and check it because they do not officially support it.

So if something changes and it triggers a security flag your gunna get stung.. its that simple that's the risk your taking. You are relying on the third party developer getting it right and even then getting it right or worse not altering their product to do things that are not permitted full stop, but even getting things right can still trigger something with GW2... that's "your risk"

 

As for saying they banned players for using ArcDPS.. go back and reread.. then come back and apologise.. I never implied anything I clearly said "IF" and not to jump to conclusions, wait for clarity from ANET.. then maybe read through the whole thread and you might actually get what I said.

[Avelione.6075]

Even Wooden Potatoes Youtuber has been talking on his channel about some 3rd party software to use with GuilWars2! I wonder what he would have to say about this wave of bans... It's like... I know people on the forum or Twitter can just lie and claim they did nothing wrong, but it's also possible that there is at least few people who did nothing wrong or were unaware of doing not allowed stuff. It's just a big mess!

The thing that bothers me the most is the no-appeal policy :/ Stinks like corpo - logic. NOOOOOOT COOL at all. I just turned off my game after a few minutes upon reading this forum topic. I don't feel like coming back to it anytime soon. I'm going back to the games I've been putting off but always wanted to play. MEEEH

[Bloodstealer.5978]

> @"freeman.7315" said:

> I think Anet could have actually saved all those who got banned by mistake if they would simply make an official in-game dmg meter and a build template. But hey,i guess instead of doing something that would actually improve the quality of the game and stop most people from using these 3rd party software, they would rather make sittable chairs. Yeah....

 

Your assuming that's the reason .. personally I am not convinced it was Arcdps or Taco or music macro's... I am sensing something more sinister having done a little bit of digging around. Add to that I am sure there will be some flase positives caught up in this as well especially if one of the checks and measures is based on time data to execute certain mechanics or complete content parts like SAB runs.

So those who genuinely believe they are innocent should still put a ticket in and fight your corner.. and if any of them are found to be "pushing the truth, swinging the lead" ANET should then counter them on here with some good old name and shame like last time.

[Towelie.9504]

> @"Healix.5819" said:

> > @"Pifil.5193" said:

> > I think that the six month ban is the warning: next time it will probably be a permanent one.

>

> 6 months is their maximum penalty. The idea is that people are less likely to do it again if they can recover, whereas a permanent suspension only encourages them to try again on a new account.

 

It's not their maximum, they even said it was the **minimum** everyone that got banned today received. Way to spread misinformation bro.

 

 

From Anet:

 

The accounts in question will remain suspended **for at least six months,** and in the case of this investigation, we will not be accepting appeals about these account suspensions.

 

 

 

I think this ban wave is dumb and banning people for 6 months is even dumber. A lot of them aren't going to come back to this game and this game is already hemorrhaging players

[freeman.7315]

> @"Bloodstealer.5978" said:

> > @"freeman.7315" said:

> > I think Anet could have actually saved all those who got banned by mistake if they would simply make an official in-game dmg meter and a build template. But hey,i guess instead of doing something that would actually improve the quality of the game and stop most people from using these 3rd party software, they would rather make sittable chairs. Yeah....

>

> Your assuming that's the reason .. personally I am not convinced it was Arcdps or Taco or music macro's... I am sensing something more sinister having done a little bit of digging around. Add to that I am sure there will be some flase positives caught up in this as well especially if one of the checks and measures is based on time data to execute certain mechanics or complete content parts like SAB runs.

> So those who genuinely believe they are innocent should still put a ticket in and fight your corner.. and if any of them are found to be "pushing the truth, swinging the lead" ANET should then counter them on here with some good old name and shame like last time.

 

Well,it is a 3rd party software program. Which one exactly,we can't be sure and we can't exclude any of them. With Anet's silence and lack of communication with us,we can only guess. I'm still super glad we got those chairs though.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> What if they triggered false positives in some cases?

Out of 1600 accounts, how many false positives do you think there were? And how many people are claiming that they received a false positive?

In every case, even when ANet made a big mistake (when people first learned to speed gather using mounts), false positives were rare, relative to the totals.

 

> @"Kheldorn.5123" said:

> But Gaile said they are not accepting appeals

They have made that statement alongside every announcement of a global wave of suspensions/bans. It's always been the case that they are will to consider a review of some of the cases.

 

I don't know why say it; it seems counterproductive to me. Maybe it's a legal thing?

 

 

> @"Vault Girl.6792" said:

> There seem to be a lot of people (including me) who used arcdps only, which does not provide any advantage, and got suspended. Why are you so sure these bans aren't just false positives?

Because history tells us that the vast majority of suspensions are legit. That far more people say they have been falsely accused than false positives.

(I don't mean that I think ANet cannot make mistakes. I mean that I'm not willing to take someone's word at face value about this. There are just way too many people who double down on their claims of persecution, mistakes, or whatever... and few of them turn out to be.)

 

 

[Healix.5819]

> @"Towelie.9504" said:

> It's not their maximum, they even said it was the **minimum** everyone that got banned today received. Way to spread misinformation bro.

 

They can set whatever duration they want of course, but 6 months is what they do in place of what would have been a permanent ban in the past, and has been the maximum duration so far (2016).

[Feeh.1720]

Thanks anet for ending all meaning of being a guild and ban people for selling gold without even investigating this

[Fenom.9457]

> @"Last Crysis.1934" said:

> This is a joyous day! I don't think we should have tac0, if A-Net wanted us to have a tactical overlay they would give us one. This will help get rid of those elitist raid players too. I am tired of seeing casual players getting kicked from raids because they meet the dps meter on tac0. Th A-net you made my day!!!☺

 

 

Didn't know taco did this, if it did then I am so glad its gone!

[Towelie.9504]

> @"Healix.5819" said:

> > @"Towelie.9504" said:

> > It's not their maximum, they even said it was the **minimum** everyone that got banned today received. Way to spread misinformation bro.

>

> They can set whatever duration they want of course, but 6 months is what they do in place of what would have been a permanent ban in the past, and has been the maximum duration so far (2016).

 

So when arenanet says minimum 6 months, what they really mean is 6 months or permanent? If so, that's so stupidly worded it may as well not even say minimum.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Towelie.9504" said:

> I think this ban wave is dumb and banning people for 6 months is even dumber.

You propose that ANet allow people to cheat with impunity? What alternative do you propose?

 

> A lot of them aren't going to come back to this game and this game is already hemorrhaging players

1600 players isn't going to affect the game that much

 

And some will come back and not cheat (lest they get banned again), which results in a better overall experience for everyone.

 

 

[Charrbeque.8729]

> @"freeman.7315" said:

> I think Anet could have actually saved all those who got banned by mistake if they would simply make an official in-game dmg meter and a build template. But hey,i guess instead of doing something that would actually improve the quality of the game and stop most people from using these 3rd party software, they would rather make sittable chairs. Yeah....

 

That's like blaming a grocery store for high prices when someone steals a loaf of bread.

 

This isn't ArenaNet's fault. They have rules in place. Just because there isn't a feature in the game you want, doesn't give you the right do do whatever you want.

[Towelie.9504]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Towelie.9504" said:

> > I think this ban wave is dumb and banning people for 6 months is even dumber.

> You propose that ANet allow people to cheat with impunity? What alternative do you propose?

>

> > A lot of them aren't going to come back to this game and this game is already hemorrhaging players

> 1600 players isn't going to affect the game that much

>

> And some will come back and not cheat (lest they get banned again), which results in a better overall experience for everyone.

>

>

 

Technically speaking, how about them attempting to actually fix their spaghetti code and vulnerabilities. Oh a program is reading and writing directly from memory? Like there isn't fixes to exploits that do that which haven't existed for the past 10 years.

 

Otherwise, like others have said, why not first warn players which are using "not allowed" third party software which likely would've resulted in those 1600~ish players being banned to probably a few hundred.

 

And lastly, ArenaNet needs to **clearly** state what is considered not allowed and allowed. Their own vagueness and ambiguity is largely to blame for this in the first place.

* DPS Meters = OK or not OK?

* Equipment inspectors = OK or not OK?

* Boss raid timers = OK or not OK?

* SPEED HACKS = OK or not OK?

* etc etc

 

If they had even put forth a minute of effort into defining rules more clearly a lot of this would be avoided. As it stands today, a lot of people got banned for using third party software and no one has any clue of what that third party software was even doing to get them banned.

[Towelie.9504]

> @"Charrbeque.8729" said:

> > @"freeman.7315" said:

> > I think Anet could have actually saved all those who got banned by mistake if they would simply make an official in-game dmg meter and a build template. But hey,i guess instead of doing something that would actually improve the quality of the game and stop most people from using these 3rd party software, they would rather make sittable chairs. Yeah....

>

> That's like blaming a grocery store for high prices when someone steals a loaf of bread.

>

> This isn't ArenaNet's fault. They have rules in place. Just because there isn't a feature in the game you want, doesn't give you the right do do whatever you want.

 

Like what rules, they have never came out and said DPS meters aren't allowed. They've never said Build Templates aren't allowed.

 

I personally don't see how either of those 2 even give an advantage over someone else. Are we just going to assume no third party software is allowed now despite them in the past saying that some third party software is allowed?

[freeman.7315]

> @"Charrbeque.8729" said:

> > @"freeman.7315" said:

> > I think Anet could have actually saved all those who got banned by mistake if they would simply make an official in-game dmg meter and a build template. But hey,i guess instead of doing something that would actually improve the quality of the game and stop most people from using these 3rd party software, they would rather make sittable chairs. Yeah....

>

> That's like blaming a grocery store for high prices when someone steals a loaf of bread.

>

> This isn't ArenaNet's fault. They have rules in place. Just because there isn't a feature in the game you want, doesn't give you the right do do whatever you want.

 

I am not defending people who hacked,cheated or broken ToS in any way. But too many people are claiming they were using Arc and Taco only or one respectively, and still got banned. As far as i'm aware of both of those were allowed by Anet and even promoted in certain cases. Anet themselves made dmg meter and build templates essential with introduction of raids. But by all means,let them pour all their time for usable in game beds that we can have on the next update.