Please Overhaul Raids.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> why do topics just devolve into: "we need easy mode raids" and "no we don't". The original post, from what I interpret, isn't asking for easy mode raids, or a raid over haul for that matter (misguiding title), as it is for an overhaul of the entire lfg. It seems to be asking for the raid subgroup in the lfg to be further sub divided into raids>lfg/lfm>easy bosses/medium bosses/hard bosses.

From the reading of that post, it's more like asking for LFR, which is a bit different than just reorganizing LFG. It's not only asking for a system to automatically put players together (like PvP queues), but also it's a (silent) appeal to make the content such groups queued for easy enough that those groups would have a significant chance of succeeding.

 

 

[Grogba.6204]

If people actually bothered to become decent at the game those threads wouldn't be necessary in the first place. Raids are not difficult.

[Sephylon.4938]

one of the old games I've played has an lfg that looks like this


 


 

perhaps something similar?

 

> @"Grogba.6204" said:

> If people actually bothered to become decent at the game those threads wouldn't be necessary in the first place. Raids are not difficult.

 

a common thing I've been noticing about people who don't like raids is that they don't want to put their faith in 9 other people and would either: prefer to assume all responsibility for themselves, or have it so that there is no responsibility to shoulder, just a boss you can hit to death.

[Blaeys.3102]

> @"Cerioth.7062" said:

> Same people arguing about the same thing for 1000th time...

>

> *yawn*

>

> Raids are fine as they are. I can grab a couple guildies whenever, LFG the rest and get kills.

 

The reason the topic is still active (possibly the most active conversation on the forums for some time now) is that many people do not feel they are fine as they are.

 

As I've said before, this topic will continue to naturally reoccur on the forums because it is something a sizeable number of players want - and because it is something that just makes sense given the content model and combat systems present in the rest of the game. And it definitely is more than the same people over and over again - we've seen at least half a dozen threads about this topic started by someone new - mostly because they were new to the conversation and didn't realize it has been ongoing for 2-2.5 years now (and, yes, it has been an active topic on the GW2 forums for at least that long).

 

That said, this thread should probably be merged with this one -

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18677/do-raids-need-easy-normal-hard-difficulty-mode-merged/p1

 

for the sake of keeping the conversation in one place.

[Talindra.4958]

Some ppl really struggling but some not .. you wonder why.

 

I never hv to talk to much in pug raid so I disagree when you say you have to put effort to talk to ppl. ..How I did y raid in the early days. Jump in .. ping kp.. type “role” and play . In the early days of my raid.. I spent a lot of time learning mechanics.

I don't like to talk to ppl either.. if the group need me to join ts or discort, I will join but mute myself. If they don't like me muting myself or I find them talking too much rubbish, I leave for another party.

Few players I know started only few months ago.. even able to complete CM.. I believe the problem isn't the game. you need to adjust ur attitude towards this if you want to progress.

 

it's like any other video games.. hv you seen Tetris change the block so more people can do the challenge

Or

Resident evil 7 .. did they make the zombie all look not scary so more ppl can play ..

 

Which good video games that has dev to step down to change their work ⁇ bug fix yes. Let the dev continue to make more awesome game...

I understand why they stop SAB.. too many cry babies

 

 

[Sephylon.4938]

>That said, this thread should probably be merged with this one -

 

>https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18677/do-raids-need-easy-normal-hard-difficulty-mode-merged/p1

 

>for the sake of keeping the conversation in one place.

 

personally I think that if this thread focuses more on improvements for the lfg, it could separate itself from that one. And I believe there is merit to improving the quality of the lfg.

[Blaeys.3102]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> >That said, this thread should probably be merged with this one -

>

> >https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/18677/do-raids-need-easy-normal-hard-difficulty-mode-merged/p1

>

> >for the sake of keeping the conversation in one place.

>

> personally I think that if this thread focuses more on improvements for the lfg, it could separate itself from that one. And I believe there is merit to improving the quality of the lfg.

 

Improving the LFG system is definitely a topic worth discussing. Unfortunately it is one that will likely get lost in this particular thread given the tie in with multiple raid modes. I would vote for merging and then, possibly, starting another thread dedicated to that singular topic away from the easy mode/hard mode discussion.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"yann.1946" said:

> > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > @"yann.1946" said:

> > >But that doesn't make it PVP anymore. Ofcourse you could ask for something different entirly. Most things are created with a specific exp in mind. Taking only parts of it is niet always a good thing.

> >

> > Why are you arguing *against* your own idea? It's hard to be supportive when you waffle like this.

> >

> Because i was not in favour of it, i'm giving an example of another thing which seems like a bad idea

 

Don't sell yourself short. A "bot mode" for sPvP would be a *great* idea. The worst part about PvP is having to play against other people, and if you could advance PvP reward tracks without having to fight with other players I think they'd have a lot more participation.

 

>No i believe it is not a problem although people think it's a problem.

 

If they believe it's a problem, then it is a problem, to them. If there are enough fo them, then it is a problem for the game that so many players think there is a problem.

 

>To be this wall people will try to break down. The existence has an influence like Kerafyrm in EQ. No element provides fun to everyone so how do you determine which parts should be tweaked?

 

You ask whether it is impeding anyone else's fun. If something is not fun, but it does not get in anyone's way, then that's fine. People can just ignore it. But if it's not fun and it stands between them and something they want, then something needs to be changed about that.

 

> @"Sykper.6583" said:

> You've admitted you don't want to actually 'communicate' with others and would prefer to simply queue, go in, maybe kill some things and bail with a bunch of randoms. Sorry this isn't that sort of game,

 

. . .

 

I'm sorry, what game have you been *playing* for the last five years?!

 

> @"Feanor.2358" said:

> The rest of the game *is* faceroll.

 

Most would disagree. This is the issue, people who raid refuse to accept that other players can struggle with any content less than raids. People who *do* struggle with content of lower difficulty than raids cannot complete raids, and thus ask for something better. People who raid cannot comprehend that any middleground can exist between raids and "press 1 to win" so they cannot understand that these other players are making a perfectly reasonable argument based on their own experiences. Get over yourselves and accept that not everyone is the same as you.

 

> @"Digit.1823" said:

> Look man, if you're so tired or MMO raiding why not just focus on a different genre of gaming. I hear Fortnite is pretty popular.

 

People came to Guild Wars 2 to **get away from raiding.**

 

> @"Talindra.4958" said:

> Some ppl really struggling but some not .. you wonder why.

 

Because different people are different, and what works for those who aren't struggling may not work for those who are, but they refuse to accept that anyone can have a different life experience than themselves.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > why do topics just devolve into: "we need easy mode raids" and "no we don't". The original post, from what I interpret, isn't asking for easy mode raids, or a raid over haul for that matter (misguiding title), as it is for an overhaul of the entire lfg. It seems to be asking for the raid subgroup in the lfg to be further sub divided into raids>lfg/lfm>easy bosses/medium bosses/hard bosses.

> From the reading of that post, it's more like asking for LFR, which is a bit different than just reorganizing LFG. It's not only asking for a system to automatically put players together (like PvP queues), but also it's a (silent) appeal to make the content such groups queued for easy enough that those groups would have a significant chance of succeeding.

>

>

 

Any of this would be better then what we have currently. The point of the thread is that getting into a raid group should be easier, I don't really care how it's done, but the current implementation, which is nothing isn't cutting it. And yes if the only solution they can think of is to make raids easier which in turn would lighten group scrutinization and make grouping easier, then I'm OK with lowering the difficulty as well.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > @"yann.1946" said:

> > > @"Ohoni.6057" said:

> > > > @"yann.1946" said:

> > > >But that doesn't make it PVP anymore. Ofcourse you could ask for something different entirly. Most things are created with a specific exp in mind. Taking only parts of it is niet always a good thing.

> > >

> > > Why are you arguing *against* your own idea? It's hard to be supportive when you waffle like this.

> > >

> > Because i was not in favour of it, i'm giving an example of another thing which seems like a bad idea

>

> Don't sell yourself short. A "bot mode" for sPvP would be a *great* idea. The worst part about PvP is having to play against other people, and if you could advance PvP reward tracks without having to fight with other players I think they'd have a lot more participation.

>

> >No i believe it is not a problem although people think it's a problem.

>

> If they believe it's a problem, then it is a problem, to them. If there are enough fo them, then it is a problem for the game that so many players think there is a problem.

>

> >To be this wall people will try to break down. The existence has an influence like Kerafyrm in EQ. No element provides fun to everyone so how do you determine which parts should be tweaked?

>

> You ask whether it is impeding anyone else's fun. If something is not fun, but it does not get in anyone's way, then that's fine. People can just ignore it. But if it's not fun and it stands between them and something they want, then something needs to be changed about that.

>

> > @"Sykper.6583" said:

> > You've admitted you don't want to actually 'communicate' with others and would prefer to simply queue, go in, maybe kill some things and bail with a bunch of randoms. Sorry this isn't that sort of game,

>

> . . .

>

> I'm sorry, what game have you been *playing* for the last five years?!

>

> > @"Feanor.2358" said:

> > The rest of the game *is* faceroll.

>

> Most would disagree. This is the issue, people who raid refuse to accept that other players can struggle with any content less than raids. People who *do* struggle with content of lower difficulty than raids cannot complete raids, and thus ask for something better. People who raid cannot comprehend that any middleground can exist between raids and "press 1 to win" so they cannot understand that these other players are making a perfectly reasonable argument based on their own experiences. Get over yourselves and accept that not everyone is the same as you.

>

> > @"Digit.1823" said:

> > Look man, if you're so tired or MMO raiding why not just focus on a different genre of gaming. I hear Fortnite is pretty popular.

>

> People came to Guild Wars 2 to **get away from raiding.**

>

> > @"Talindra.4958" said:

> > Some ppl really struggling but some not .. you wonder why.

>

> Because different people are different, and what works for those who aren't struggling may not work for those who are, but they refuse to accept that anyone can have a different life experience than themselves.

 

This guy gets it, I 100% agree with all of these points.

[Talindra.4958]

Do we know why Josh quit making more SAB?

I don't think those who has trouble with SAB would care, but you know - like many other players, I enjoy playing SAB and when they stop making it, it affects us. you tell me that people who play and enjoy certain game dont accept others’ view how they cant enjoy it? its ok if you want to defend yourself with every single arguments everyone put forward.. but from where this is going its not only affecting you and your game experience but it affect others who has no issue with it here in the forum. I don't know what to say, sorry my English isn't very good. but the persistently continue to try to get to the bottom of what you wanted, is this attitude even normal? I don't intent to attack. but I honestly find this very very uncomfortable I wish I can just block people here so I don't need to read their response and also they don't see my response. it isnt because i dislike them but i would just prefer not to have any dealing with them. I wont ask admin for such feature tho because it takes up people time to make things just for me... i like to point out:

 

ONE (1) -

> @"Crystal Reid.2481" said:

> We won't be adding a different difficulty tier at this time.

 

TWO (2) -

> @"Crystal Reid.2481" said:

> Any solution would detract away from the team making more raid content. We'd love to get more content out to you guys faster really.

 

as far as you ask Anet to be considerate for your situation... I am very sure they have a very very very clear understanding of you and many other players attitude and view since the day they respond to such post. ONE post I believe is good enough.

 

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Talindra.4958" said:

> Do we know why Josh quit making more SAB?

> I don't think those who has trouble with SAB would care, but you know - like many other players, I enjoy playing SAB and when they stop making it, it affects us. you tell me that people who play and enjoy certain game dont accept others’ view how they cant enjoy it? its ok if you want to defend yourself with every single arguments everyone put forward.. but from where this is going its not only affecting you and your game experience but it affect others who has no issue with it here in the forum. I don't know what to say, sorry my English isn't very good. but the persistently continue to try to get to the bottom of what you wanted, is this attitude even normal? I don't intent to attack. but I honestly find this very very uncomfortable I wish I can just block people here so I don't need to read their response and also they don't see my response. it isnt because i dislike them but i would just prefer not to have any dealing with them. I wont ask admin for such feature tho because it takes up people time to make things just for me... i like to point out:

>

> ONE (1) -

> > @"Crystal Reid.2481" said:

> > We won't be adding a different difficulty tier at this time.

>

> TWO (2) -

> > @"Crystal Reid.2481" said:

> > Any solution would detract away from the team making more raid content. We'd love to get more content out to you guys faster really.

>

> as far as you ask Anet to be considerate for your situation... I am very sure they have a very very very clear understanding of you and many other players attitude and view since the day they respond to such post. ONE post I believe is good enough.

>

There is some confusion here in absolutes. Let’s look at Crystal Reid’s statement. “We won’t be adding a different difficulty tier at this time” Sorry Crystal, did you just say that you will never make different difficulty tiers ever for raids? “...different difficulty tiers...at this time”. But most people here think you said that this will never happen, but what did you say? “...different difficulty tiers...at this time...” I rest my case.

 

[Talindra.4958]

I don't mind people question her or dev decision but continue to pursue that even after 2k post after months and years.. there is a reason dev not replying anymore to this topic.

It's like you are trying to tell someone nicely. No. Don't you get it.. no. Not at this time.

How do you tell your children no⁇

 

Dev had tried in multiple occasion to come forward and explain it.. but ppl continue to ignore it and continue to bring everything forward challenge them. I think a very clear and final msg need to be convey by the game dev or rep.. so this topic can rest (ye right).. ppl will nvr be happy with whatever. Most important is the progress continue. There are so many other part of the game that needs attention too not just raid.

I'm sorry crystal tht I continue to bring up ur post. Not intent to get you into trouble but that was last post of word we could refer to

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Talindra.4958" said:

> Some ppl really struggling but some not .. you wonder why.

Yep, that's surprising. It turns out people are different. Shocking, i know.

 

There are differences in reaction speed, perception, manual dexterity, learning speed... and that's only the start. Then we go into things like mental endurance and stress resistance - some people get stressed out more easily than others. Some people get tired very fast in stressful environment, when it doesn't seem to bother others. Then there are social factors (some people are just better at socializing and finding friends than others, also for some people just being in a bigger group for some time alone is stressful). And then we get to some other, "minor" things you probably never thought of. Like, for example, _language_. Remember, that in EU in addition to "international" (meaning "english"), there are also german, spanish and french servers. Many players on those servers do not in fact know english. Did you even think how that limits their chances of finding a raid group? Or a training guild?

Yeah, thought so.

 

> @"Talindra.4958" said:

> Do we know why Josh quit making more SAB?

Yes, we do. World 2 was much more difficult than world 1, and as a result number of people interested in SAB went down significantly. We've never been told that this caused them to cancel any further development for SAB, but we know they have been disappointed at how the world 2 has been received.

 

> I don't think those who has trouble with SAB would care, but you know - like many other players, I enjoy playing SAB and when they stop making it, it affects us.

See? It's the people that asked for more difficulty in SAB that killed any chance we'll ever see worlds 3 and 4 for everyone else.

 

> @"Talindra.4958" said:

> I don't mind people question her or dev decision but continue to pursue that even after 2k post after months and years.. there is a reason dev not replying anymore to this topic.

> It's like you are trying to tell someone nicely. No. Don't you get it.. no. Not at this time.

> How do you tell your children no⁇

By saying "no". Not by saying "not at this moment".

 

The point Tyson is making is that Anet is _not_ willing to make an absolute statement here. Because they are aware that they may decide to change their minds on this at some point and want to leave their options open.

[Talindra.4958]

Well then Arena net., Please if you could come forward and give players a firm reply - Yes or no for easy raid mode. We adjust to suit.

[Talindra.4958]

Also Astral

RE: SAB while ppl complain about it.. the others are playing and enjoying it quietly. Not until they stop making it there we see the enormous numbers coming out in rata sum wanting for it to return. The numbers here in forum is not representative to actual players who actually enjoy the game.

Btw Astral and a few of you has been in this topic forever. Write to anet support to request for a reply. Months and years of posts and reply in this topic.. I don't know how u feel but I being honest.. I hope being honest won't get myself banned in forum. I think it's ridiculous. Not saying you are wrong. It's just ridiculous the entire topic that goes forever..

[Tyson.5160]

> @"Talindra.4958" said:

> I don't mind people question her or dev decision but continue to pursue that even after 2k post after months and years.. there is a reason dev not replying anymore to this topic.

> It's like you are trying to tell someone nicely. No. Don't you get it.. no. Not at this time.

> How do you tell your children no⁇

 

If they are never going to change then they should just say never and commit, but they aren’t, probably because they can’t foretell future decisions. Some dev down the road could say hey let’s do an easier tier, hence why they are leaving their answer open ended, much like 2nd generation legendary weapons.

 

 

[Ze Dos Cavalos.6132]

What killed Sab was players drama about difficulty.

Now you doing the same with raids, making lots of drama complaining its too hard, trying to kill raids or something.

But raids are not a side project like Sab, so ofc they won't stop coming just because 5 people in the forum made 1000 posts asking for easy ways to do them.

 

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @"Ze Dos Cavalos.6132" said:

> What killed Sab was players drama about difficulty.

> Now you doing the same with raids, making lots of drama complaining its too hard, trying to kill raids or something.

> But raids are not a side project like Sab, so ofc they won't stop coming just because 5 people in the forum made 1000 posts asking for easy ways to do them.

>

 

so me asking for an eaiser way to group = wanting raids easier? I said that was 1 possible solution not the only solution.

[Talindra.4958]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > @"Ze Dos Cavalos.6132" said:

> > What killed Sab was players drama about difficulty.

> > Now you doing the same with raids, making lots of drama complaining its too hard, trying to kill raids or something.

> > But raids are not a side project like Sab, so ofc they won't stop coming just because 5 people in the forum made 1000 posts asking for easy ways to do them.

> >

>

> so me asking for an eaiser way to group = wanting raids easier? I said that was 1 possible solution not the only solution.

 

Dev had previously acknowledge that finding party to raid can be hard for some ppl.. players had also previously suggest a more friendly party search tool that will work better than current. Your request isn't unreasonable.

But don't give up because of that bcos many ppl can still do it.. there are ways to get into raid.

[Linken.6345]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > @"Ze Dos Cavalos.6132" said:

> > What killed Sab was players drama about difficulty.

> > Now you doing the same with raids, making lots of drama complaining its too hard, trying to kill raids or something.

> > But raids are not a side project like Sab, so ofc they won't stop coming just because 5 people in the forum made 1000 posts asking for easy ways to do them.

> >

>

> so me asking for an eaiser way to group = wanting raids easier? I said that was 1 possible solution not the only solution.

 

What raid classes have you geared mate?

If its only power necro and condi thief im sorry they arent wanted in most fights.

Maybe gear and learn something thats wanted like chrono or druid.

the easiest is probabely druid hence why i play it you could always go the hard rute and learn piano elementalist.

[HardRider.2980]

> @"Raizel.8175" said:

> > @"HardRider.2980" said:

> > Easier version of Raids is Fractals imho.

>

> That's not true. Fractals don't require the trinity-based gameplay raids do (well, at least not if people put in some effort).

>

>

Either do you need the trinity based gameplay in raids.. I mean it was done with all ele or all necro squads before..

 

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > @"Ze Dos Cavalos.6132" said:

> > > What killed Sab was players drama about difficulty.

> > > Now you doing the same with raids, making lots of drama complaining its too hard, trying to kill raids or something.

> > > But raids are not a side project like Sab, so ofc they won't stop coming just because 5 people in the forum made 1000 posts asking for easy ways to do them.

> > >

> >

> > so me asking for an eaiser way to group = wanting raids easier? I said that was 1 possible solution not the only solution.

>

> What raid classes have you geared mate?

> If its only power necro and condi thief im sorry they arent wanted in most fights.

> Maybe gear and learn something thats wanted like chrono or druid.

> the easiest is probabely druid hence why i play it you could always go the hard rute and learn piano elementalist.

 

zerk dh/firebrand, viper berserker, zerk staff ele, zerk revenant, viper scourge, support druid, that enough fully ascended classes for raid?

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"Talindra.4958" said:

>Dev had tried in multiple occasion to come forward and explain it.. but ppl continue to ignore it and continue to bring everything forward challenge them.

 

Maybe they wouldn't have to keep coming back to this question if they would just provide the *right* answer to the question, something along the lines of "we recognize that there is a demand for a change to be made here, so we *are* going to do something about it, and here's our plan. . ."

 

Simply repeating "no" isn't going to resolve anything.

 

Ever.

 

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> Yes, we do. World 2 was much more difficult than world 1, and as a result number of people interested in SAB went down significantly. We've never been told that this caused them to cancel any further development for SAB, but we know they have been disappointed at how the world 2 has been received.

 

Honestly, my issue with World 2 when it came out was not its difficulty, but its *length.* each sub-world of World 2 was about as big as World 1 entirely, and yet had to be completed in a single continuous string. If they had broken each "biome" of World 2 into 2-3 separate maps that you could enter individually, I think it would have gone over a lot better. Personally, I I still manage my three SAB missions per day, but I try to avoid the World 2 ones as best as possible because they just take so much more time to clear.

 

 

[Linken.6345]

> @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > @"Linken.6345" said:

> > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said:

> > > > @"Ze Dos Cavalos.6132" said:

> > > > What killed Sab was players drama about difficulty.

> > > > Now you doing the same with raids, making lots of drama complaining its too hard, trying to kill raids or something.

> > > > But raids are not a side project like Sab, so ofc they won't stop coming just because 5 people in the forum made 1000 posts asking for easy ways to do them.

> > > >

> > >

> > > so me asking for an eaiser way to group = wanting raids easier? I said that was 1 possible solution not the only solution.

> >

> > What raid classes have you geared mate?

> > If its only power necro and condi thief im sorry they arent wanted in most fights.

> > Maybe gear and learn something thats wanted like chrono or druid.

> > the easiest is probabely druid hence why i play it you could always go the hard rute and learn piano elementalist.

>

> zerk dh/firebrand, viper berserker, zerk staff ele, zerk revenant, viper scourge, support druid, that enough fully ascended classes for raid?

 

Cant see how you can have a hard time just joing people looking for druid or dps there mate.