Sephylon.4938 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > That's a fantastic goal! I think you should seriously look at getting into a guild that does training runs! It is a LOT of fun! > > > > No, you may enjoy training runs, and if so that's great, for you, but I know for a fact that I never will, it's just not for me, which is why I'm pushing for them to add easy mdoe raids, which I actually would enjoy playing. You do you, just never expect that to work for everyone else. > > > > Have you tried it? I'm curious what about normal raids you will never enjoy but an easy mode you would enjoy. Not trying to troll you, having a serious discussion. :) he has been offered a free ride though raids not too long ago, he turned it down ofc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > While I dont believe you'll have the opportunity to get envoy armor in that environment, it cant hurt to keep asking for it. And if it doesnt work out the way you want I hope you can find some enjoyment without having the armor. There are a lot of great skins in the game. Best of luck to you friend! :) Thanks. > @"Sephylon.4938" said: > he has been offered a free ride though raids not too long ago, he turned it down ofc. Yup, like I said, I'm not looking for a personal favor here, I want to create an actual *system* that would benefit *any* player that wants it. I don't want to be carried, I want to carry *myself* through a lower-stress version of the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokeenoppa.5384 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 If active ppl in this discussion had used their time in raids instead of here at forums they would have all 3 legendary sets already and skills to solo every raid boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokeenoppa.5384 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > > > > That's a fantastic goal! I think you should seriously look at getting into a guild that does training runs! It is a LOT of fun! > > > > > > > > > > No, you may enjoy training runs, and if so that's great, for you, but I know for a fact that I never will, it's just not for me, which is why I'm pushing for them to add easy mdoe raids, which I actually would enjoy playing. You do you, just never expect that to work for everyone else. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you tried it? I'm curious what about normal raids you will never enjoy but an easy mode you would enjoy. Not trying to troll you, having a serious discussion. :) > > > > > > Yes, I've tried it. The parts of training runs that I don't enjoy are the minutes, if not hours of pointlessly standing around while the group gets their ducks in a row, followed by attempting the encounter, and then failing it because one or more people made some simple mistakes, and then doing the whole mess over again, and again, and likely again, and maybe again, and maybe the encounter isn't even completed before the end of the night! I have no interest in that. > > > > > > With easy mode, players would be able to expect dropping into an LFG (or starting one), having it be full and prepared to start withing a few minutes, going in, and either clearing the encounter or at least coming close and clearing it the next time. None of that "training" nonsense. I get that this wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea, some people would find it "too easy," but it doesn't have to be, those players already have the normal mode, this doesn't have to be for them. > > > > It sounds like you've been in the wrong groups. Imagine being in a group where people come prepared and dont wipe on bosses! Would that be fun for you? > > Maybe, the trick is that such groups can be hard to find without any preconditions. I don't want required Li or build or gearing, I don't want to have to show up at a specific time of day, I just want to be able to drop in whenever I'm playing and have it work out. I also don't want any sort of "special favor" that only applies to me, I want it to be something that *any* player could count on. And like Astral noted, having a good group certainly helps, but also I want to make sure I'm doing my part, so the stress of a potential mistake potentially leading to a wipe really causes me a lot of stress that reduces my enjoyment of the activity. > > I prefer lower-stress actives, where I have the *chance* to "perform really well," but where if I *don't,* if I miss something I should have gotten, it's not the end of the attempt, I can just keep playing and hopefully do better the next time. Do you think this kind of gameplay is enough to get Legendary armor? Basically you just want to farm bosses pressing skill 1 and that should reward you with best gear in game? This is like ur saying i want better job for more money, but i dont wanna get More education to get that Job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said: > If active ppl in this discussion had used their time in raids instead of here at forums they would have all 3 legendary sets already and skills to solo every raid boss. Yeah, probably, and hated every second of it, which is why I'm doing this instead. >Do you think this kind of gameplay is enough to get Legendary armor? Basically you just want to farm bosses pressing skill 1 and that should reward you with best gear in game? Do you think anything you've done in a raid would be *more* deserving? Of course not, it's a game. There's no such thing as "deserving." >This is like ur saying i want better job for more money, but i dont wanna get More education to get that Job. Real life isn't a game. In real life you get paid to perform a useful function, and the amount you're paid depends on the usefulness of that function. This is a game, there is no utility to *anything* we do, all that matters is whether you are enjoying the process or not. There is no benefit to encouraging players to not have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokeenoppa.5384 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said: > > If active ppl in this discussion had used their time in raids instead of here at forums they would have all 3 legendary sets already and skills to solo every raid boss. > > Yeah, probably, and hated every second of it, which is why I'm doing this instead. > > >Do you think this kind of gameplay is enough to get Legendary armor? Basically you just want to farm bosses pressing skill 1 and that should reward you with best gear in game? > > Do you think anything you've done in a raid would be *more* deserving? Of course not, it's a game. There's no such thing as "deserving." > > >This is like ur saying i want better job for more money, but i dont wanna get More education to get that Job. > > Real life isn't a game. In real life you get paid to perform a useful function, and the amount you're paid depends on the usefulness of that function. This is a game, there is no utility to *anything* we do, all that matters is whether you are enjoying the process or not. There is no benefit to encouraging players to not have fun. So this is only a game, does that mean you dont need Legendary armor? You only wanna have fun right? Do things that you enjoy and forget raids and legendary set, its not needed for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zealex.9410 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"Eponet.4829" said: > Having been playing WoW recently, the QoL feature that I've loved the most out of all the ones that I've seen was the "Flexible group size" on normal and heroic that allowed you to run any number of players above or equal to 10 and below or equal to 30, with the encounters scaling to compensate for it, such that you could keep a larger than normal raid team without needing to sit people out each week, or go LFG diving because you ran exactly what was needed and someone didn't show up. > > Additionally, that buffer of extra players led to much less "Stop for 20 minutes while we find more people after a person or two left midway through" > > It also allowed groups to be more inclusive, since as long as a player was able to pull their weight, you could keep them around. Mythic raiding in wow doesnt work like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said: > So this is only a game, does that mean you dont need Legendary armor? You only wanna have fun right? Do things that you enjoy and forget raids and legendary set, its not needed for anything. Nobody *needs* it, including raiders. It's all about wanting to have it, and having it make the game be more enjoyable. Not having the Envoy skins makes the game less enjoyable, and there's nothing I can do about that. I'm looking for them to add a way to work towards earning it that would actually be fun to participate in, in a way that normal mode raiding never could be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said: > If active ppl in this discussion had used their time in raids instead of here at forums they would have all 3 legendary sets already and skills to solo every raid boss. I already have my armor set. This didn't change my view of the whole case at all. > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said: > This is like ur saying i want better job for more money, but i dont wanna get More education to get that Job. Actually, this is like saying you want the same money for your job. "The same" meaning the type of currency, _not_ the quantity (because of course the quantity would be lower). You see, having a better job offers you more money, but doesn't give you access to shops and goods those working at lower wages simply _can't_ access. If you buy something in shop, the only thing he person selling stuff to you cares about is if you have enough money. They don't care where did you earn it. > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said: > So this is only a game, does that mean you dont need Legendary armor? No more or less than raiders do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sokeenoppa.5384 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said: > > So this is only a game, does that mean you dont need Legendary armor? You only wanna have fun right? Do things that you enjoy and forget raids and legendary set, its not needed for anything. > > Nobody *needs* it, including raiders. It's all about wanting to have it, and having it make the game be more enjoyable. Not having the Envoy skins makes the game less enjoyable, and there's nothing I can do about that. I'm looking for them to add a way to work towards earning it that would actually be fun to participate in, in a way that normal mode raiding never could be. > > > Why game is less enjoy without that skin? We dont share same ideology about fun content, so no more discussion about that one. Lets see did i understand everything 1. You want envoy skin, not armor 2. You dont wanna be "traditional raider" ur more interested about raid lore and some encounters, but you think they could be little easier for you to complete them without "try hard" attitude. Hmmm.. i think some ppl have proplem If you get skin from "easy mode", coz its kinda like tittle for raiders. Im pretty sure that most ppl would agree with ur terms If normal raid armor had something unique in it that easy mode skin dont have. But you want to have same skin right? Would it be ok for you, if those 2 Skins had somekind of minor difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said: > Why game is less enjoy without that skin? We dont share same ideology about fun content, so no more discussion about that one. It's subjective, of course. I'm just giving my response as to why *I* care, and I don't think it's rational to imply that I would be alone in thinking like that. >1. You want envoy skin, not armor >2. You dont wanna be "traditional raider" ur more interested about raid lore and some encounters, but you think they could be little easier for you to complete them without "try hard" attitude. Yes. Yes. >Hmmm.. i think some ppl have proplem If you get skin from "easy mode", coz its kinda like tittle for raiders. When they added the ability to use the wardrobe to copy one Legendary weapon skin onto multiple weapons, they added the title "Twicetold Legend" to people who actually made two of the same Legendary. I would not object to them adding titles for people that were only available to those who earn the Envoy armor via the normal raid, all I care about is the skin, not any imagined "prestige" factor. >Im pretty sure that most ppl would agree with ur terms If normal raid armor had something unique in it that easy mode skin dont have. But you want to have same skin right? [and the follow-up] *Pretty* much. I can't say with certainly that I wouldn't be willing to settle for something *slightly* different, that would depend entirely on how those differences manifested (for example I actually *prefer* SAB blue weapons to the "more prestigious" yellow and green ones), but I am looking for armor that has all the major features of the existing Envoy skins. If they lacked the animations, the transformations, if they were deliberately "joked up" with locked in garish colors or bolted on ornaments that make them look worse, then obviously that would be no substitute, but there probably are tasteful ways that they could alter them that would be fine with me (of course that's all entirely subjective, and I'm sure some others would still not enjoy what I would be fine with). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ButcherofMalakir.4067 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said: > > Why game is less enjoy without that skin? We dont share same ideology about fun content, so no more discussion about that one. > > It's subjective, of course. I'm just giving my response as to why *I* care, and I don't think it's rational to imply that I would be alone in thinking like that. > > >1. You want envoy skin, not armor > >2. You dont wanna be "traditional raider" ur more interested about raid lore and some encounters, but you think they could be little easier for you to complete them without "try hard" attitude. > > Yes. Yes. > > >Hmmm.. i think some ppl have proplem If you get skin from "easy mode", coz its kinda like tittle for raiders. > > When they added the ability to use the wardrobe to copy one Legendary weapon skin onto multiple weapons, they added the title "Twicetold Legend" to people who actually made two of the same Legendary. I would not object to them adding titles for people that were only available to those who earn the Envoy armor via the normal raid, all I care about is the skin, not any imagined "prestige" factor. > > >Im pretty sure that most ppl would agree with ur terms If normal raid armor had something unique in it that easy mode skin dont have. But you want to have same skin right? [and the follow-up] > > *Pretty* much. I can't say with certainly that I wouldn't be willing to settle for something *slightly* different, that would depend entirely on how those differences manifested (for example I actually *prefer* SAB blue weapons to the "more prestigious" yellow and green ones), but I am looking for armor that has all the major features of the existing Envoy skins. If they lacked the animations, the transformations, if they were deliberately "joked up" with locked in garish colors or bolted on ornaments that make them look worse, then obviously that would be no substitute, but there probably are tasteful ways that they could alter them that would be fine with me (of course that's all entirely subjective, and I'm sure some others would still not enjoy what I would be fine with). > > In league of legends season 2 (6 years ago i think) riot games added new skin (championship riven) for the duration of world championship and said that they will never sell it again. This skin bacome insanely desired and rare because not that many players played season 2 and not all of them that bought were still playing 5 years later. And only option to get it was to buy it on ebay for like 1000 dollars. Riot then decided to sell it again (money for them :D ) but to not upset everyone that already had it the old variation got a crown. I am ok with providing envoy armor to everyone if everyone can see if player got envoy from raids or the other way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > > Have you tried wvw to get legendary armor? It is what you're asking for. Easy to complete and just takes time. > > > > > > 1. It's through WvW, which is not the game mode I want to play. > > > 2. It has no Envoy skin, which means it offers nothing that I'm at all remotely even a little interested in getting. > > > > > > > > > > So you want the raid skin with little challenge. What about legendary armor from open world with an everyday average skin but with stat swapping? > > Again, the stat swapping portion is entirely irrelevant. Do - not - care. I'm looking to get the skins. Then raid. Like everyone else. I know it's hard to believe, but you're not the center of the Universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"ButcherofMalakir.4067" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said: > > > Why game is less enjoy without that skin? We dont share same ideology about fun content, so no more discussion about that one. > > > > It's subjective, of course. I'm just giving my response as to why *I* care, and I don't think it's rational to imply that I would be alone in thinking like that. > > > > >1. You want envoy skin, not armor > > >2. You dont wanna be "traditional raider" ur more interested about raid lore and some encounters, but you think they could be little easier for you to complete them without "try hard" attitude. > > > > Yes. Yes. > > > > >Hmmm.. i think some ppl have proplem If you get skin from "easy mode", coz its kinda like tittle for raiders. > > > > When they added the ability to use the wardrobe to copy one Legendary weapon skin onto multiple weapons, they added the title "Twicetold Legend" to people who actually made two of the same Legendary. I would not object to them adding titles for people that were only available to those who earn the Envoy armor via the normal raid, all I care about is the skin, not any imagined "prestige" factor. > > > > >Im pretty sure that most ppl would agree with ur terms If normal raid armor had something unique in it that easy mode skin dont have. But you want to have same skin right? [and the follow-up] > > > > *Pretty* much. I can't say with certainly that I wouldn't be willing to settle for something *slightly* different, that would depend entirely on how those differences manifested (for example I actually *prefer* SAB blue weapons to the "more prestigious" yellow and green ones), but I am looking for armor that has all the major features of the existing Envoy skins. If they lacked the animations, the transformations, if they were deliberately "joked up" with locked in garish colors or bolted on ornaments that make them look worse, then obviously that would be no substitute, but there probably are tasteful ways that they could alter them that would be fine with me (of course that's all entirely subjective, and I'm sure some others would still not enjoy what I would be fine with). > > > > > > In league of legends season 2 (6 years ago i think) riot games added new skin (championship riven) for the duration of world championship and said that they will never sell it again. This skin bacome insanely desired and rare because not that many players played season 2 and not all of them that bought were still playing 5 years later. And only option to get it was to buy it on ebay for like 1000 dollars. > Riot then decided to sell it again (money for them :D ) but to not upset everyone that already had it the old variation got a crown. > > I am ok with providing envoy armor to everyone if everyone can see if player got envoy from raids or the other way. Sure, that's not a problem, so long as the aesthetic of the new version is close enough. I've long proposed that hardcore raiders could get some sort of nametag flair, like for World Completion or PvP rankings. Would that be a good enough distinction between hardcore raiders and "scrubs who only spent three times as long to earn their armor?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > > > Have you tried wvw to get legendary armor? It is what you're asking for. Easy to complete and just takes time. > > > > > > > > 1. It's through WvW, which is not the game mode I want to play. > > > > 2. It has no Envoy skin, which means it offers nothing that I'm at all remotely even a little interested in getting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you want the raid skin with little challenge. What about legendary armor from open world with an everyday average skin but with stat swapping? > > > > Again, the stat swapping portion is entirely irrelevant. Do - not - care. I'm looking to get the skins. > > Then raid. Like everyone else. I know it's hard to believe, but you're not the center of the Universe. "I'm just giving my response as to why I care, **and I don't think it's rational to imply that I would be alone in thinking like that."** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor.2358 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > > > > Have you tried wvw to get legendary armor? It is what you're asking for. Easy to complete and just takes time. > > > > > > > > > > 1. It's through WvW, which is not the game mode I want to play. > > > > > 2. It has no Envoy skin, which means it offers nothing that I'm at all remotely even a little interested in getting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you want the raid skin with little challenge. What about legendary armor from open world with an everyday average skin but with stat swapping? > > > > > > Again, the stat swapping portion is entirely irrelevant. Do - not - care. I'm looking to get the skins. > > > > Then raid. Like everyone else. I know it's hard to believe, but you're not the center of the Universe. > > "I'm just giving my response as to why I care, **and I don't think it's rational to imply that I would be alone in thinking like that."** It also isn't rational to require special attitude instead of playing by the same rules everyone else does, but it doesn't stop you from doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > > > > > Have you tried wvw to get legendary armor? It is what you're asking for. Easy to complete and just takes time. > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. It's through WvW, which is not the game mode I want to play. > > > > > > 2. It has no Envoy skin, which means it offers nothing that I'm at all remotely even a little interested in getting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you want the raid skin with little challenge. What about legendary armor from open world with an everyday average skin but with stat swapping? > > > > > > > > Again, the stat swapping portion is entirely irrelevant. Do - not - care. I'm looking to get the skins. > > > > > > Then raid. Like everyone else. I know it's hard to believe, but you're not the center of the Universe. > > > > "I'm just giving my response as to why I care, **and I don't think it's rational to imply that I would be alone in thinking like that."** > > It also isn't rational to require special attitude instead of playing by the same rules everyone else does, but it doesn't stop you from doing it. Of course it's rational to ask for changes that you think would improve the game. Dozens of people do so on these forums every day. Why wouldn't it be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalavaaris.5329 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > > > > > > Have you tried wvw to get legendary armor? It is what you're asking for. Easy to complete and just takes time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. It's through WvW, which is not the game mode I want to play. > > > > > > > 2. It has no Envoy skin, which means it offers nothing that I'm at all remotely even a little interested in getting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you want the raid skin with little challenge. What about legendary armor from open world with an everyday average skin but with stat swapping? > > > > > > > > > > Again, the stat swapping portion is entirely irrelevant. Do - not - care. I'm looking to get the skins. > > > > > > > > Then raid. Like everyone else. I know it's hard to believe, but you're not the center of the Universe. > > > > > > "I'm just giving my response as to why I care, **and I don't think it's rational to imply that I would be alone in thinking like that."** > > > > It also isn't rational to require special attitude instead of playing by the same rules everyone else does, but it doesn't stop you from doing it. > > Of course it's rational to ask for changes that you think would improve the game. Dozens of people do so on these forums every day. Why wouldn't it be? What will you do if they dont add an easy way to get envoy armor? What would your time frame look like to get what you're looking for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > Of course it's rational to ask for changes that you think would improve the game. Dozens of people do so on these forums every day. Why wouldn't it be? > > What will you do if they dont add an easy way to get envoy armor? What would your time frame look like to get what you're looking for? I'll continue to play until I get burned out on the game. Hasn't happened yet, but will likely happen eventually. I expect it to take a while to get the armor even if they opened a path tomorrow. Ideally of course it would take about as long as the current method, but as a compromise to those who don't want their efforts "cheapened" I've indicated that three times as long would be reasonable. I don't mind the long game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalavaaris.5329 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > Of course it's rational to ask for changes that you think would improve the game. Dozens of people do so on these forums every day. Why wouldn't it be? > > > > What will you do if they dont add an easy way to get envoy armor? What would your time frame look like to get what you're looking for? > > I'll continue to play until I get burned out on the game. Hasn't happened yet, but will likely happen eventually. I expect it to take a while to get the armor even if they opened a path tomorrow. Ideally of course it would take about as long as the current method, but as a compromise to those who don't want their efforts "cheapened" I've indicated that three times as long would be reasonable. I don't mind the long game. How about the collection that is required? Would that need to be done as well? Would mechanics need to be followed in an easy mode to say, not miss the green circles on cairn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohoni.6057 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > Of course it's rational to ask for changes that you think would improve the game. Dozens of people do so on these forums every day. Why wouldn't it be? > > > > > > What will you do if they dont add an easy way to get envoy armor? What would your time frame look like to get what you're looking for? > > > > I'll continue to play until I get burned out on the game. Hasn't happened yet, but will likely happen eventually. I expect it to take a while to get the armor even if they opened a path tomorrow. Ideally of course it would take about as long as the current method, but as a compromise to those who don't want their efforts "cheapened" I've indicated that three times as long would be reasonable. I don't mind the long game. > > How about the collection that is required? Would that need to be done as well? The specifics are up to what would be easiest for ANet to implement. Obviously it can't require completing all the bosses on normal mode, because that goes against the spirit of the thing. On the other hand, allowing easy mode clears to count for the normal achievements would allow some players to get those clears, and then use the simpler hard mode maps to farm Li, and shortcut the process. I think perhaps they would need a parallel process, like a new set of achievements that unlocks the same reward checkpoints, but has different requirements, like instead of beating each boss once, you'd need to beat them 10+ times to get the equivalent clear. This is one of the more complicated parts to get just right. >Would mechanics need to be followed in an easy mode to say, not miss the green circles on cairn? There's been some discussion of the best option here. My personal stance is that the mechanics should all remain in, but where necessary their damage would be trimmed back, so that insta-kill attacks would no longer be quite so deadly. Clearing the mechanics completely would be just as skillful as in the normal mode, but failing to do so would not be so catastrophic to the attempt. It would still be possibly to die to multiple mechanics catching up to you, but making one or two mistakes would not be likely to finish you off, and a decent team would stand a good chance of getting you back on your feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laila Lightness.8742 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"TexZero.7910" said: > >Nothing you've said has been reasonable. > > Then why not present arguments against what I *said,* rather than having to *make up* positions for you to be outraged over? > > >You want the rewards from raiding on an easier difficulty. That's fantasy and isn't going to happen. > > Why not? You can get dungeon rewards from PvP, you can get LS rewards by spending log-in laurels, there's plenty of precedent for once-exclusive rewards being made available via alternate, often easier methods. > > >No sane developer is going to even remotely consider it. > > Then nobody needs you pointing that out. If there's no chance of them doing it, then there's nothing for you for worry about. > > >Even if on the off chance they give in and create an easy mode it will have it's own subsection with its own achievements which in no way allow you to work toward legendary armor. > > Maybe, but again, that would only be half a solution, and they would need to work out a *completely different* solution for how to get the Envoy armor to people who don't raid. It just seems like a wasted opportunity to me, it's like saying "well, we have all this food that'll go to waste if we don't cook it, and we have all those hungry people over there, so. . . let's cook up the food and then throw it in the trash, and *then* order take-out for all those hungry people!" > > >So you want a mid ground, that's your mid ground. Suggesting anything else is unreasonable which is why people keep telling you such. It's why people showcase your own position as absurd and why we keep using equally ludicrous analogies because you refuse to see how bad your proposal is but somehow when we take it from 10 to 11 you suddenly fight back. > > Well see, nobody *is* showcasing *my* positions as absurd. They *claim* that my position is absurd, but when pushed to back up that claim, to make a reasonable case as to *why* my position is "so absurd," the best they can do is to make up completely *new* positions for me to hold, and then claim that *those* are absurd. Well I'm sorry, but I have no control over not-me. If I were as wrong as you insist I am, then you could argue back against *me,* rather than against some abstract boogeyman. I agree on easy mode but not on the reward decrease hard should be enjoyed by those who like doing it but rewards should be same for both to prevent people feeling bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamkiller.4315 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Feanor.2358" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > > > > > > Have you tried wvw to get legendary armor? It is what you're asking for. Easy to complete and just takes time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. It's through WvW, which is not the game mode I want to play. > > > > > > > 2. It has no Envoy skin, which means it offers nothing that I'm at all remotely even a little interested in getting. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you want the raid skin with little challenge. What about legendary armor from open world with an everyday average skin but with stat swapping? > > > > > > > > > > Again, the stat swapping portion is entirely irrelevant. Do - not - care. I'm looking to get the skins. > > > > > > > > Then raid. Like everyone else. I know it's hard to believe, but you're not the center of the Universe. > > > > > > "I'm just giving my response as to why I care, **and I don't think it's rational to imply that I would be alone in thinking like that."** > > > > It also isn't rational to require special attitude instead of playing by the same rules everyone else does, but it doesn't stop you from doing it. > > Of course it's rational to ask for changes that you think would improve the game. Dozens of people do so on these forums every day. Why wouldn't it be? You're not looking for changes that would improve the game, otherwise why else would so many easy raid proponents label you as their side's extremist? Nah, you're looking for changes that would improve the game for pretty much only _you_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalavaaris.5329 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > Of course it's rational to ask for changes that you think would improve the game. Dozens of people do so on these forums every day. Why wouldn't it be? > > > > > > > > What will you do if they dont add an easy way to get envoy armor? What would your time frame look like to get what you're looking for? > > > > > > I'll continue to play until I get burned out on the game. Hasn't happened yet, but will likely happen eventually. I expect it to take a while to get the armor even if they opened a path tomorrow. Ideally of course it would take about as long as the current method, but as a compromise to those who don't want their efforts "cheapened" I've indicated that three times as long would be reasonable. I don't mind the long game. > > > > How about the collection that is required? Would that need to be done as well? > > The specifics are up to what would be easiest for ANet to implement. Obviously it can't require completing all the bosses on normal mode, because that goes against the spirit of the thing. On the other hand, allowing easy mode clears to count for the normal achievements would allow some players to get those clears, and then use the simpler hard mode maps to farm Li, and shortcut the process. I think perhaps they would need a parallel process, like a new set of achievements that unlocks the same reward checkpoints, but has different requirements, like instead of beating each boss once, you'd need to beat them 10+ times to get the equivalent clear. > > This is one of the more complicated parts to get just right. > > >Would mechanics need to be followed in an easy mode to say, not miss the green circles on cairn? > > There's been some discussion of the best option here. My personal stance is that the mechanics should all remain in, but where necessary their damage would be trimmed back, so that insta-kill attacks would no longer be quite so deadly. Clearing the mechanics completely would be just as skillful as in the normal mode, but failing to do so would not be so catastrophic to the attempt. It would still be possibly to die to multiple mechanics catching up to you, but making one or two mistakes would not be likely to finish you off, and a decent team would stand a good chance of getting you back on your feet. What about people who still think the easy mode is too hard and too stressful? What if you also feel it's still too hard? It still may change from group to group as some groups would trivialize the content and other groups would fail at even the simplest mechanic. That would worry me because you would still have stress to perform in any team environment with a possibility of failure. If you could earn rewards from this mode what is stopping the raiders from coming in and hijacking the mode for easy rewards? You still may end up not enjoying this idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bakeneko.5826 Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > @"Zalavaaris.5329" said: > > > > > > @"Ohoni.6057" said: > > > > > > Of course it's rational to ask for changes that you think would improve the game. Dozens of people do so on these forums every day. Why wouldn't it be? > > > > > > > > > > What will you do if they dont add an easy way to get envoy armor? What would your time frame look like to get what you're looking for? > > > > > > > > I'll continue to play until I get burned out on the game. Hasn't happened yet, but will likely happen eventually. I expect it to take a while to get the armor even if they opened a path tomorrow. Ideally of course it would take about as long as the current method, but as a compromise to those who don't want their efforts "cheapened" I've indicated that three times as long would be reasonable. I don't mind the long game. > > > > > > How about the collection that is required? Would that need to be done as well? > > > > The specifics are up to what would be easiest for ANet to implement. Obviously it can't require completing all the bosses on normal mode, because that goes against the spirit of the thing. On the other hand, allowing easy mode clears to count for the normal achievements would allow some players to get those clears, and then use the simpler hard mode maps to farm Li, and shortcut the process. I think perhaps they would need a parallel process, like a new set of achievements that unlocks the same reward checkpoints, but has different requirements, like instead of beating each boss once, you'd need to beat them 10+ times to get the equivalent clear. > > > > This is one of the more complicated parts to get just right. > > > > >Would mechanics need to be followed in an easy mode to say, not miss the green circles on cairn? > > > > There's been some discussion of the best option here. My personal stance is that the mechanics should all remain in, but where necessary their damage would be trimmed back, so that insta-kill attacks would no longer be quite so deadly. Clearing the mechanics completely would be just as skillful as in the normal mode, but failing to do so would not be so catastrophic to the attempt. It would still be possibly to die to multiple mechanics catching up to you, but making one or two mistakes would not be likely to finish you off, and a decent team would stand a good chance of getting you back on your feet. > > What about people who still think the easy mode is too hard and too stressful? What if you also feel it's still too hard? It still may change from group to group as some groups would trivialize the content and other groups would fail at even the simplest mechanic. That would worry me because you would still have stress to perform in any team environment with a possibility of failure. If you could earn rewards from this mode what is stopping the raiders from coming in and hijacking the mode for easy rewards? You still may end up not enjoying this idea. Here's my idea, make easy mode, with bosses having 50% of orginal HP, one less mechanical skill, and give 1 LI shard per cleared wing (whole wing) and 4 shards make one LI. Achievements in easy mode disabled. Very slow to farm, not possible to advance towards legendary armors with achievements and works as training mode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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