sokeenoppa.5384

Some1 used a lvl 80 boost and went i to expansion content without playing the base game? ?

> @"AgentMoore.9453" said: > > @"Katary.7096" said: > > And I doubt that the developers made raid content with the expectation that it would become one of the game's main pillars. They were likely aware that it is niche content and only serves to fill a gap in the game's assortment of content. > > You're saying raids, in their entirety, were purposefully made for a small amount of players? To me, that seems _unlikely_. That's a **lot** of effort for a niche. > > If you ask me, ArenaNet wanted more people to be raiding, and their explanation of strike missions was 'look guys! a ramp to help you get into raiding!!'. When that didn't work, they switched over to Dragon Response Missions and Sunqua Peak (the upper level fractal) as additional ways of trying to get people into more 'challenging end-game content'. > > I think they had every expectation that far more people would raid than the amount that actually do, and they're doing all the wrong things to try and make it happen. Anet actually made raids to be niche, and even said that participation was higher than expected and that raids were a success. Yes without me linking any source for this im just a guy shouting at forums, some1 else feel free to link source because i dont like to use forum search with my phone.

> @"weaponwh.9810" said: > so basically not worth it except 1st time Its worth it atleast for ppl that has static and can just do 5 CMs during their full clear without extra wipes.

Imagine raiding with condi firebrand and some1 just using random chill to cancel all ur damage.. no ty.

> @"Linken.6345" said: > > @"Hannelore.8153" said: > > > @"WindBlade.8749" said: > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > > > > You don't have to do what is meta. Create your own group if you don't see any to your liking in the LFG. > > > > > > > > > > DPS has been the go to for just about everywhere in PvE over the past 8+ years. > > > > > > > > > > Meta is usually always fairly narrow to a degree and has been for 8+ years. > > > > > > > > Usually the people in PuGs don't care, but i think it's toxic some people feel they have to lecture people on how to play, especially with fractals which has a massive overhead to climbing (ar collection + ascended gear). If i was more fragile i might quit the game mode altogether. Honestly i have run some parties with almost all supports in lower tiers because of how sparse the player base is. You have to use what's available. > > > > > > > > I just would like some wind knocked out of the sails of the everyone is dps meta. > > > > > > > > Which by the way was how i started this character but because of lack of support while climbing, i swapped it into support before i invested too much into the character. > > > > > > More than lecturing i think people are just annoyed when in an content that is hard compared to the others contents of the game you don't pull your weight, as long your dps is fine or your boon uptime is ok, only people that like optimisation will complain, most of class in this game can be dps in cm with no real problem but the problem is more on buffer, there is no other buffer for 5 man content than fb, the game really need new one, we only have 10 man support that are not fit for 5 man at all (without even speaking about how broken fb egide is) same for alac, why only two specialization in this game can give it ? > > > > This is the key point I was trying to make earlier. Its not just that two classes in the game can give Alacrity, its that only two specialisations (subclasses) can give it, which means that the overall amount of classes that provide Alacrity is a whopping 7%. > > > > And on top of that, one of them has a really hard time doing it, so generally isn't used for the task anymore. > > > > And don't even get me started on Firebrand and its monopoly on group Stability, with Rev barely competing, and no one else being able to do the job except a little bit from Scrapper, Chronomancer, etc > > > > Everyone wouldn't have to go DPS if it wasn't literally the only role they could play thats effective. > > > > Even when you count mechanics like reflects, the number of players that can do them is a very small amount of the overall player base, and that's why we end up like this. No one should be everything, but everyone has to be at least something, and right now that's just damage with maybe some heals and basic boons like Might if you want to support, that's it. > > > > One whole class (Warrior) is demoted purely to just increasing your stats, that's rediculous. > > 2 classes increase stats dont forget ranger spirits mate. *3 dont forget AP from alac ^^

> @"Akir.9312" said: > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said: > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said: > > > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > > > Sure, why not. At the same time i'd guess OW should get its own legendary armor, and a source of ascended gear as good as magnetites are. > > > > > > > > Sure. And naturally raids will get 2 sets of unique legendary weapons, fair trade :) > > > Okay, you win. Let's agree on OW getting the envoy set, not an unique one, and with Raiders being able to buy OW-specific gen 1/2 legendary weapon components with LI. > > > > > > > I really dont care, just teasing you ? > > I dont care what rewards open world has/gets. I just want the game mode i play reward me other days than monday when i do my full clear. Rewards can be whatever really, as long as they feel even just a little rewarding > > yes, this is what i feel, i either burn it all on monday or split clears between 2 days and the rest of the day i am getting as much from raids as i get from a champion chest Im leading training raids or just having fun with lfg groups rest of the week, feels bad that im kinda like losing money while doing so because of food. Sure one could argue that food is optional but anyways.

> @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said: > > > @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > > Sure, why not. At the same time i'd guess OW should get its own legendary armor, and a source of ascended gear as good as magnetites are. > > > > Sure. And naturally raids will get 2 sets of unique legendary weapons, fair trade :) > Okay, you win. Let's agree on OW getting the envoy set, not an unique one, and with Raiders being able to buy OW-specific gen 1/2 legendary weapon components with LI. > I really dont care, just teasing you ? I dont care what rewards open world has/gets. I just want the game mode i play reward me other days than monday when i do my full clear. Rewards can be whatever really, as long as they feel even just a little rewarding

> @"Astralporing.1957" said: > Sure, why not. At the same time i'd guess OW should get its own legendary armor, and a source of ascended gear as good as magnetites are. Sure. And naturally raids will get 2 sets of unique legendary weapons, fair trade :)

> @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said: > > > @"Antycypator.9874" said: > > > KP, LI/DL and should be once per week, but other rewards (Gold, Shards/Crystals, exotic items and chance for Asc item) — daily. It's still low income compared to specific OW farms or FoTM, but I would probably do raids more, because I actually enjoy raids. > > > > > > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said: > > > > That would be ~700 gold/week IF player would do full clear every day. Imo that sounds kinda balanced when compared to other gold farming methods. It would also perhaps make raids less dead content. > > > > > > > > Edit: just correct me if i said stupid about the gold from FC, i really dont remember anymore how much it is ? > > > > > > It's 25 encounters (rewarded): > > > W1: VG, Pre-Gorse, Gorseval, Sabetha > > > W2: Sloth, Trio, Matthias > > > W3: Escort, KC, Twisted Castle, Xera > > > W4: Cairn, MO, Samarog, Deimos > > > W5: SH, River, Statues, Dhumm > > > W6: CA, Largos, Qadim > > > W7: Sabir, Adina, Qadim 2.0 > > > Total: 25, so 50g + additional bonus [doubled rewards from 2 random wings] = 62-66g. > > > > I counted the exotics and other loot in that aswell. They add up fast. It is after all one Guaranteed exotic and some yellow uni gear if im not mistaken. But still 100 was a bit of an overkill. 80-90 depending about rng sounds more correct. > > Actually 100g is about right on average. > > The pure gold reward is around 60-66g. The reward in guaranteed exotic items is between 7.5 - 25 gold (depending on the exotic items. I calculated 0.30 to 1g per reward. Average should be a bit higher given often at least 1-2 valuable sigils are in there). The Magnetite Shards and Gaeting Crystals are 15g and 18g respectively (at each 150 gained). The CM rewards are 10 gold on top. That is without any ascended loot factored in or potential infusion or other sell-able drops. > > I personally don't mind either way. I know enough players who clear raids multiple times per week. Some even multiple full clears. > > Only issue I would warn against is players with a completion OCD burning out or creating more pressure to raid after the initial raid clear or creating a situation where experienced raiders are given less motivation in helping out. As it stands, a major reason why some players raid beyond their full clear in other raid squads to help is is exactly because raids don't offer continuous daily rewards. Didn't even think about the OCD, it might be a proplem indeed. Personally i raid ALOT after my FC so it would be nice to get atleast something to cover the food cost of those runs where i dont get anything ? Then again i would be even happy to get a new achievement called "daily raid boss killer" or something like that. Simply just give player a few gold, some trash loot and 1 or 2 achievement points every day when you kill your first raid boss.

> @"Akir.9312" said: > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > @"Akir.9312" said: > > > > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > > > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said: > > > > > Raid rewards are already pretty bad, a bit more than 100 gold from FC once/week if you sell your loot. However if we could repeat them as much as we want, that would change into 100 gold/4 hour for casual players like myself. Imo that would be bit too much. > > > > 100g/4 hours is in line with the return from time spent in Drizzlewood and Dragonfall. > > > > Why is this number "too much" for players that are completing content that is objectively harder open world zerging? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with that. just trying to understand why are raids such a low income content. > > We **just** agreed that they offer competitive rewards with the best OW farms in the game. > > And you want to call them "low income"... > > This is why the developers cannot take this forum's feedback seriously > > so let me get this straight, you are able to get as muich money from raids as you can from OW farm on a weekly bases? is this your thesis? > Raids gives you bit less than 100 gold/week while open world in theory can give atleast 3360 if you would spend every hour of week farming ? Infact we should say that raids gives you 100gold/168 hour ?

> @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said: > > Raid rewards are already pretty bad, a bit more than 100 gold from FC once/week if you sell your loot. However if we could repeat them as much as we want, that would change into 100 gold/4 hour for casual players like myself. Imo that would be bit too much. > 100g/4 hours is in line with the return from time spent in Drizzlewood and Dragonfall. > Why is this number "too much" for players that are completing content that is objectively harder open world zerging? > > If its up to me raids would be hands down the most rewarding content. I tried keep the it a bit lower just because ?‍♂️.

> @"Antycypator.9874" said: > KP, LI/DL and should be once per week, but other rewards (Gold, Shards/Crystals, exotic items and chance for Asc item) — daily. It's still low income compared to specific OW farms or FoTM, but I would probably do raids more, because I actually enjoy raids. > > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said: > > That would be ~700 gold/week IF player would do full clear every day. Imo that sounds kinda balanced when compared to other gold farming methods. It would also perhaps make raids less dead content. > > > > Edit: just correct me if i said stupid about the gold from FC, i really dont remember anymore how much it is ? > > It's 25 encounters (rewarded): > W1: VG, Pre-Gorse, Gorseval, Sabetha > W2: Sloth, Trio, Matthias > W3: Escort, KC, Twisted Castle, Xera > W4: Cairn, MO, Samarog, Deimos > W5: SH, River, Statues, Dhumm > W6: CA, Largos, Qadim > W7: Sabir, Adina, Qadim 2.0 > Total: 25, so 50g + additional bonus [doubled rewards from 2 random wings] = 62-66g. I counted the exotics and other loot in that aswell. They add up fast. It is after all one Guaranteed exotic and some yellow uni gear if im not mistaken. But still 100 was a bit of an overkill. 80-90 depending about rng sounds more correct.

> @"Akir.9312" said: > hello everyone, > i dont think needs needs a lenghtly explanation. > I clear raids more than one time per week as it is a content i am striving to improve at. > The rewards are meaningless after the first weekly clear. to my knowledge it's the end content with less replayability. Is there a reason why? wouldnt it be a good change to introduce some way to make the content replayable? > some drops you could still get when repeating (portals, chairs etc...)? > some gold per encounter? > a way to reset weekly clears so you could do them all twice? > Best regards, > Akir Raid rewards are already pretty bad, a bit more than 100 gold from FC once/week if you sell your loot. However if we could repeat them as much as we want, that would change into 100 gold/4 hour for casual players like myself. Imo that would be bit too much. However what you think about daily reset? Everything else would be daily other than LIs, LIs would still have their weekly cap. That would be ~700 gold/week IF player would do full clear every day. Imo that sounds kinda balanced when compared to other gold farming methods. It would also perhaps make raids less dead content. Edit: just correct me if i said stupid about the gold from FC, i really dont remember anymore how much it is ? If above sounds awful, perhaps give as a random daily raid wing to clear. I would be happy with that even.

Getting into raids requires you to have exotic gear and joining in a raid guild that i see posting their recry messages multiple times during the day ingame, facebook, Reddit etc. Players that want to raid can already do it easily with or without KPs.

This would be huge power creep.

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > @"Linken.6345" said: > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > @"Sobx.1758" said: > > > > Soooooo we're repeating this thread? > > > > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/119910/impossible-for-new-players-raids/ > > > > > > > > It's not tedious to learn, if you want to learn and get into raiding you will. If you don't want to learn, then you have noone and nothing to blame. > > > > "KPs bad in low pop" -maybe, but then again maybe not. Seeing how all it does is providing the way to distinguish players that are experienced/inexperienced (not a fool-proof method, sure, but it's... something), I'm not sure not having kps would somehow make anything better. You'd get into raid party, instantly show you don't know what is happening and get kicked. > > > > > > ^ Exactly > > > > > > > @"Vilin.8056" said: > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said: > > > > > > > > @"yann.1946" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > No, other games invalidate old content allowing skill less players to have a sense of success by beating content which otherwise would be unbeatable to them at a later point. Or they introduce difficulty tiers which are barely above free loot, to make even the worst players feel accomplished. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nox100. I agree but you're moving what i was saying a different direction. The refresh helps make getting into groups easier. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, it doesn't. Players who did not properly tackle challenging content gain NOTHING with gear depreciation in other MMOs in regards to improving game skill wise. What they gain is the ability to out-gear old content and experience it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In that regard GW2 is actually superior. There is no required "cut-off" point one has to wait for. If you want to take on challenging content, you can start doing so at any point in time. Most often all it requires is a different approach to content in this game, often ideally paired with a more social approach and making contacts, but even that is only beneficial and not needed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Simply put: > > > > > > > > > If you lacked the knowledge, experience and underlying understanding how to approach challenging content, you are/were in the exact same spot in every other MMO even after a new gear set. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Cyninja.2954" said: > > > > > > > > > > > We have that in GW2. We have that in lower tier fractals. What we do not have is the gear deprecation and dumbing down of content to the same extent, though power creep is certainly present. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you want to be successful in other MMOs and take on challenging content, the approach there is exactly the same as here: join a guild, practice, improve, succeed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What % of guilds are doing progression runs? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Irrelevant in that most players who want to get into CMs never even take that approach. They demand others take them "as is" via LFG groups. You are demanding just that in this very thread. I linked you youtube video of a fractal training guild member/leader. There obviously are discord and guilds. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Even if not, here is what I did: > > > > > > > > > I asked guildies in one of my more casual guilds which were already doing T4 semi regularly if they would be interested in-trying CMs. I did so AFTER actually spending a ton of time as duo with a friend in learning how to run CMs. I trained up 3 roster worth of guildies to be able to run CMs because eventually people don't have time or take a break from the game or fractals, etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The point is: the key in succeeding at this content is playing with other players regularly. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Firebeard.1746" said: > > > > > > > > > > As for your comment on time, if nourishing the community around raiding is too time consuming then the game mode isn't sustainable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No, a game mode becomes unsustainable if the amount of players playing it drops to far or the developers decide that they have to move on due to technical reasons (dungeons were by far not underpopulated but a mess code wise) which is far more related to updates that content receives. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nourishing happens, just not the way you like it: between random parties all the time constantly. It happens in social groups of different degree most of the time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with you. > > > > > > > > It seems to me people always seem to confuse being friendly with being social. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > People don't just stroll to random people playing boardgames and ask then to teach it to them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually, that is usually how people learn new board games or card games. You go somewhere and people are playing a game and they want you to play so they sit you down and teach you. I've been watching it happen for 35+ years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have never once sat down and read a ruleset for monopoly or scrabble or poker or hearts, nor basketball or soccer or baseball. I learned these games because there were people around who wanted to get others involved in them, rather than push them away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Strangely enough, I can't help to imagen that people wanting to teach other people these games, must have something to do with why these games are undying and have stood the test of time. And as much can be said in contrast for why raids are dying Guild Wars 2, because people want to isolate instead of create community cohesion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It truly is an interesting difference in sociology to evaluate. The difference between how things work IRL vs. an online video game, and why. > > > > > > > > > > > > So, if I was now to make the case that every person you walk up to is unsocial because they might not be interested to teach you a board game right at that very moment in time, I'd have a strong argument? > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, friends or family teach each other new board games. It's a social interaction. Or people go to comic/board game/trading card game shops and play and teach others. That's on their terms. That is akin to taking a guild member along or doing a training run. > > > > > > > > > > > > At no point in time does this happen though when the other party is not interested or lacking time. > > > > > > > > > > > > The differences between RL and online video game are not that different, IF one accounts for the fact that in RL you have spacial distance which manages interest and goals. In online games you do not since it's basically a binar state: online or offline. > > > > > > > > > > > > All you have to imagine is this: > > > > > > Players who are not in the mood to train others are basically not in your spacial vacinity. In real lifey, you wouldn't have met them at that point in time, aka they wouldn'thave shown up to that game night. If you want something from them, do so at the appropriate time and place, just as you would when interacting with them im real life. Easy peasy. > > > > > > > > > > This conversation has somehow deviated far far away from where it started. > > > > > > > > > > My OP post was never about player reluctance to take the time and effort to train someone new. > > > > > > > > > > My OP post was about experienced players discriminating against experienced players because someone has 9000 LIs and someone else only has 6000. > > > > > > > > > > A veteran wanting to get his clear done quickly on a night rather than taking hours and hours to train new players is certainly reasonable. But veterans discriminating against other veterans over some diminutive difference in skill value, could only be viewed as ridiculous at best. > > > > > > > > > > Big difference there. > > > > > > > > 9000 and 6000 LIs? I guess making an unrealistic assumption to judge a community isn't ridiculous to you. > > > > > > > > Kill Proofs simply represent a means to bypass the trust barrier when strangers joining a squad for something that is only meant for players of a certain skill level. Even eliminating all KPs doesn't meant there won't be trust issues among different level of players, veteran players will still find a way to filter out undesired players in order to make the squad functional. > > > > > > ^ Exactly > > > > > > So what you're looking at without KPs, is that everyone gets a chance to prove themselves at least once. And then players can remember each other by account/character name. This is a much more realistic gauge of actual efficiency level, regardless of how many KPs a person has or does not have or is willing to fake ping. Removing KPs entirely would usher in a short phase of the community reevaluating everyone from a true skill standpoint like this, rather than a KP number. Some players may find this to be a frustrating phase, but it would serve as a remedy for the lack of raid participation in general. > > > > > > Look, you've got 3 different types of players when it comes to raids, concerning level of efficiency. 1) You have experienced players who have been doing it for a long time. 2) You have good players who are willing to watch videos and try hard, who know they as an individual are good enough to learn quickly even though they are inexperienced. 3) You have players doing everything wrong, who won't ever get much done. Now what you have happening with a KP system such as LIs, is that the system is good at distinguishing player type 1 from 2 & 3, but it is not good at distinguishing player type 2 from 3. The player type 1 then builds a wall of KPs around itself, to block out type 2 and type 3, so that runs are faster and more efficient, which works great in higher population. In a higher population there are plenty of 1s to maintain a sound active player base inside of the KP fortress, and there are enough 2s showing up on the scene to find each other and eventually build other fortresses in other places. However, with low population the active numbers inside the type 1 fortress begin to dwindle, and rather than lower the KP gates to allow more in, for some reason the KP gate keeps getting higher. Outside of the gates, the type 2s are also in lower population, and it is becoming much much more difficult for 2s to form groups of 2s. So new 2s show up on the scene and can't get into the gates of the KP walls, so they are forced to play with 3s. When the 2s are forced to play with 3s, even though the 2s know the content and are ready to complete it to build KPs, they can't. Then the 2s end up deciding the raids are neither fun or worth the time to organize. <- This is because there aren't enough 2s to play with and the 1s rarely let them in either. And then the participation rates and population in general, dies off. > > > > > > Some of you are still not identifying this, and some of you are actively trying to fight this fact. The fact of the matter is, that wall of Kill Proofs and the eminence front that it is, in most cases prevents types 1s from bringing in type 2s, and it prevents type 2s from playing with type 1s so they maintain interest and stick around. > > > > > > This isn't a hypothesis. This is certainly what is happening and as much is obvious to anyone who takes the time to seriously evaluate it. > > > > > > > > > > The 2s can do what you say no kp will do. > > Group together use friend list to add good people and build up a big enough nr of 2 to play with right? > > No, they can't. > > There aren't enough 2s to form groups of 2s. I've already stated this. And when the one or two guys who are 2s are forced to play with a bunch of 3s, they lose interest and leave the scene. This is what is happening. I repeat, there are not enough 2s to group into groups of 2s. This is what those inside of the KP fortress are not understanding. > > There is a newer thread here -> https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/119910/impossible-for-new-players-raids and many of these statements, including the OP statement, are 100% detailing what I have explained to you here, but in other words. > > Again, this is all happening because of the KP wall. 2s are ready to complete content but they can't because they are forced to play with 3s and there aren't enough 2s to go around. Then the 2s lose interest and leave the scene. If the 2s who are ready, were allowed inside the gates, they would have fun and would maintain interest and stay, adding to the population of participants who can complete content. But they will never be allowed into those walls because the rare 2 cannot complete content with groups of 3s, and thus he will never be able to build KP to show. Even if he does occasionally snag an LI here or there, it will take WAY TOO LONG if it is even possible at all, to ever build enough to be "Trusted" in better groups, for the raids to ever be worth his time. > > Click on that link I posted and read just the first page. Finest example on the internet of what I've explained in this thread. > > And then you get statements like this: > > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said: > > The groups that you see requiring LI are those trying to do clears. They're not intended for new players as they would slow things down and even possibly cause a wipe. Those players are free to create their own LFG with specifications that all are welcome. There are also training guilds/discords which will help teach players new to raids. > > The thing that the people who dwell within the KP fortress are not understanding, is that there aren't enough 2s for other 2s to play with. And 2s can't get anything done in groups of all 3s, so they leave the scene and don't come back. And this whole thing about "Just join a raid guild" has become a meme blanket statement within this community. The reality of raid guilds is that you get to wait and sit around for 7 days until someone happens to be in the mood to form a party of five type 1s, so they can train five type 2s. And that's if a person is lucky enough to even get a spot in a training run or two for that week. And that's not even guaranteeing the run will even last longer than an hour. > > It simply is no where even in the ballpark of practical for new 2s on the scene to stick around. It simply isn't worth the time neither in fun or reward. And this problem is mainly due to the KP fortress community. > > **Look, you can argue to preserve your KP wall, that's fine. Just understand what I am saying. What I am saying is that there will be more participation in raids if KPs were removed entirely. Whether the elite community likes it or not, whether their runs in the LFG become more difficult or not, it is true.** > Remove KPs or even LIs and new players just hit another wall, if there is a wall that is. Titles, weapon skins, CM boxes, KP website and what not.

New raids, new harder strikes, more fractal CMs.

In short: Tank in the meta usually is the one who lose least amount of stuff while tanking and still does his other job during the raid. In pugs this is usually chronomancer, but other solid options are for example alac, druid, hfb and boon thief. Tanking it self is not hard and any class can do it, but you want your tank to do something else than just tank, like giving major boons etc.

My weekly clear with my static i supose. Doesn't sound like a much of a story but thats the most fun experience for me. Something to wait for every week, friends get together, grab few beers and wreck bosses.

Every condi class can meet the DPSs checks there, but purple class is just good. However if are still learning the mechanics and want to deal somewhat useful damage, shortbow soulbeast is always an option.

Only if we had either runes or armor that can be stat swapped.

> @"Astralporing.1957" said: > > @"sokeenoppa.5384" said: > > > @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > > That's _literally_ what he/she says: > > > > @Astralporing.1957 said: > > > > Sure, some players actually enjoy that > > > > > > Furthermore, it must be me but to my knowledge the concept of 'chill' IS NOT the same as enjoyment. I mean, I don't even see _that_ much correlation, really. Chill means (imo): take it easy, take it slow (much like the condition :) ). Whereas enjoying something is incredibly subjective, right??? > > > > Yeah i can get behind this. > > You can take the learning in chill way, practise the boss step by step, having discussions between tries about the strats that might or might not work, adjust the composition if somethings is lacking like healing or boons and what not. Training something doesn't have to be awful. > I didn't say "awful", did I. I did even mention that it can be an anjoyable experience to some players. I just don't believe any attempt to "take it easy" during learning is going to provide any meaningful results. You _will_ need to put a lot of effort and attention into training if you're expecting to learn anything from it. Chill approach is possible only _after_ you've learned enough, but during training it simply won't cut it. If watching a video, checking what your class does, reading a guide and gathering a composition that somewhat makes sense and expect same from other 9 players is lot of effort, then yes i agree with you.

> @"Agrippa Oculus.3726" said: > > @"The Fear.3865" said: > > > @Astralporing.1957 said: > > >"Chill learning run" done by a group of 10 new players is usually an equivalent of saying "we're completely chill with fact that we won't learn anything today". If you actually want to learn anything in such a group setup, it will be stressful, there's no avoiding that. Learning raid encounters when you're all new to the content is an extremely painful process. Sure, some players actually enjoy that, but that doesn't make it any less of a hard and highly demanding work. > > > > >I am also speaking from the point of the person that often did the organizing of such groups. And, trust me, it never was chill for me. > > > > Oboi... Trust me you can learn something and enjoy it... So sad to read something like that. > That's _literally_ what he/she says: > > @Astralporing.1957 said: > > Sure, some players actually enjoy that > > Furthermore, it must be me but to my knowledge the concept of 'chill' IS NOT the same as enjoyment. I mean, I don't even see _that_ much correlation, really. Chill means (imo): take it easy, take it slow (much like the condition :) ). Whereas enjoying something is incredibly subjective, right??? Yeah i can get behind this. You can take the learning in chill way, practise the boss step by step, having discussions between tries about the strats that might or might not work, adjust the composition if somethings is lacking like healing or boons and what not. Training something doesn't have to be awful. OR you can all watch one video about the fight, expect every1 to know their s*it, get owned by boss and tilt.

> @"lare.5129" said: > > @"Cyninja.2954" > > Again, this topic deals with how it can be explained lore wise. > author say that impossible touch that content as lore, and feel it. So it is my vision ho to make it accelerate for lore players. > > No he didn't.

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