Vova.2640 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Yes, commanders have the right to ask you to run a different class. If you want to run with that commander, do as he asks. You dying in wvw is only helping the enemy team win since you rally the enemies downs. Tbh anet really needs to add invisible tags for this sort of thing. I wish anet would accept the fact that wvw is not pve. Yes, pve is all great and friendly and everyone's a winner. But in wvw the "rules of the game" are different. You can run whatever you want in pve at the end of the day you are fighting an AI. In wvw this will not cut it you have to run better builds and be overall more skilled or you're just gonna be a rallybot and have a bad time. Solution? Join a wvw guild. Ask for advice. Ask for tips for builds and your class. I don't know about most servers, Im on SoS and here for the most part guilds welcome all players who are willing to learned and get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Shagaliscious.6281" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"Shagaliscious.6281" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Asltok.4327" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RoseofGilead.8907" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But where do you draw the line, your saying they have the right to not let certain classes in, can also exclude people they don't like? Can also exclude people of certain religions or ethnicity too? Oh now it's against tos. Hard to know how or why people are excluded. I think that in wvw if your tagged up, anyone from your server can join,unless it's a guild group comprised 100% of guild members. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RoseofGilead.8907" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But where do you draw the line, your saying they have the right to not let certain classes in, can also exclude people they don't like? Can also exclude people of certain religions or ethnicity too? Oh now it's against tos. Hard to know how or why people are excluded. I think that in wvw if your tagged up, anyone from your server can join,unless it's a guild group comprised 100% of guild members. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are people attempting to join a squad in wvw bringing up their ethnicity and religion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They aren't, he just had to use an outrageous and extreme example to make his point look better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's what it is. If I don't want to play a video game with you, I won't. If I'm a leader of a group, I will reserve my right to pick who I want in my group. If I don't want certain classes, then I'm not taking them. This isn't some kindergarten inclusion zone. It's not my problem you chose to play the game in a way I deem ineffective, and I won't hamper my own time and enjoyment just to cater to you. And if it ever comes to extremes like that? It's still a video game that I use my time and money to enjoy, and if I don't want to play with you for whatever reason, I will make my own group with it's own requirements, because my time is mine alone, and I choose how to spend it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like you should only be able to scrutinize if you have a 100% guild squad, as soon as you take in a pug, I don't feel like you should be able to exclude for any reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Player 1 should never be able to force player 2 to play with him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we are going to use outrageous examples here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Forcing someone else to play with you, when they do not wish to do so, is slavery. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Slavery is bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > How is that slavery? > > > > > > > > > > Forcing someone else to work for you when they do not wish to do so is slavery. Commanding in WvW is work (remember that work is a measure of effort and so even play is work). > > > > > > > > So they can just not tag up if they can't work with others, nothing forced about it. They are supposed to lead for the greater good, and utilize everyone. > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing to utilize for the group if someone is running a selfish build that brings no party support at all. > > > > That makes no sense. So the person who wants to play a game mode, regardless of how is selfish, but the person who has designated themselves as the leader and wants their squad tailor made and excludes others so everything is there way or the highway is not selfish? > > No, because that tailor made squad produces the highest chance of winning fights FOR THE SERVER. What's the point if so many people from the server are excluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Vova.2640" said: > Yes, commanders have the right to ask you to run a different class. If you want to run with that commander, do as he asks. > You dying in wvw is only helping the enemy team win since you rally the enemies downs. > > Tbh anet really needs to add invisible tags for this sort of thing. > I wish anet would accept the fact that wvw is not pve. > Yes, pve is all great and friendly and everyone's a winner. But in wvw the "rules of the game" are different. > You can run whatever you want in pve at the end of the day you are fighting an AI. In wvw this will not cut it you have to run better builds and be overall more skilled or you're just gonna be a rallybot and have a bad time. > > Solution? Join a wvw guild. Ask for advice. Ask for tips for builds and your class. > I don't know about most servers, Im on SoS and here for the most part guilds welcome all players who are willing to learned and get better. > Or we could just reign in commanders powers a bit. Since it's not nice anyways and it is just a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seinka.4823 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > What's the point if so many people from the server are excluded. If "so many" people are excluded, then the squad will fail and the commander will learn the hard way to make more reasonable limits on who to include or exclude. But even if they won't, there's no reason to force the commanders to include someone, they don't want. You can try to convince them, but not force them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Shagaliscious.6281" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @"Asltok.4327" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"RoseofGilead.8907" said: > > > > > > > > > > > If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But where do you draw the line, your saying they have the right to not let certain classes in, can also exclude people they don't like? Can also exclude people of certain religions or ethnicity too? Oh now it's against tos. Hard to know how or why people are excluded. I think that in wvw if your tagged up, anyone from your server can join,unless it's a guild group comprised 100% of guild members. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"RoseofGilead.8907" said: > > > > > > > > > > > If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But where do you draw the line, your saying they have the right to not let certain classes in, can also exclude people they don't like? Can also exclude people of certain religions or ethnicity too? Oh now it's against tos. Hard to know how or why people are excluded. I think that in wvw if your tagged up, anyone from your server can join,unless it's a guild group comprised 100% of guild members. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are people attempting to join a squad in wvw bringing up their ethnicity and religion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They aren't, he just had to use an outrageous and extreme example to make his point look better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's what it is. If I don't want to play a video game with you, I won't. If I'm a leader of a group, I will reserve my right to pick who I want in my group. If I don't want certain classes, then I'm not taking them. This isn't some kindergarten inclusion zone. It's not my problem you chose to play the game in a way I deem ineffective, and I won't hamper my own time and enjoyment just to cater to you. And if it ever comes to extremes like that? It's still a video game that I use my time and money to enjoy, and if I don't want to play with you for whatever reason, I will make my own group with it's own requirements, because my time is mine alone, and I choose how to spend it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like you should only be able to scrutinize if you have a 100% guild squad, as soon as you take in a pug, I don't feel like you should be able to exclude for any reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > Player 1 should never be able to force player 2 to play with him. > > > > > > > > > > > > If we are going to use outrageous examples here: > > > > > > > > > > > > Forcing someone else to play with you, when they do not wish to do so, is slavery. > > > > > > > > > > > > Slavery is bad. > > > > > > > > > > How is that slavery? > > > > > > > > Forcing someone else to work for you when they do not wish to do so is slavery. Commanding in WvW is work (remember that work is a measure of effort and so even play is work). > > > > > > So they can just not tag up if they can't work with others, nothing forced about it. They are supposed to lead for the greater good, and utilize everyone. > > > > > > > There is nothing to utilize for the group if someone is running a selfish build that brings no party support at all. > > That makes no sense. So the person who wants to play a game mode, regardless of how is selfish, but the person who has designated themselves as the leader and wants their squad tailor made and excludes others so everything is there way or the highway is not selfish? No commander can exclude others from playing the game mode. It is not physically possible. What we have here is a demand that others be forced to work for an individual against their will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNecrosanct.4028 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 It's quite simple. If they don't want your class in the squad, leave the squad and just tag along. What can they do about that? Nothing at all. Do they become toxic? Block them, report them. The game has options for that. You can argue that a commander has the right to demand only certain classes in his squad, but a commander has no control over whoever is tagging along outside the squad. And it doesn't matter which class you play while tagging along. It's always extra dps and utility, no matter what class you play. If I join such a squad and my class isn't welcome, I leave and just run with them. If the commander has a problem with that in any way, it's their problem, not mine. You don't need their approval for anything when you're not part of their squad. I haven't come across situations like that myself, mostly because I hardly play WvW these days and only to get GoB's, but I would find it quite amusing. Then again, I usually find it quite amusing when people rage over things out of their control. It's a royal waste of time and energy, yet some people are still set on wasting it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vova.2640 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Vova.2640" said: > > Yes, commanders have the right to ask you to run a different class. If you want to run with that commander, do as he asks. > > You dying in wvw is only helping the enemy team win since you rally the enemies downs. > > > > Tbh anet really needs to add invisible tags for this sort of thing. > > I wish anet would accept the fact that wvw is not pve. > > Yes, pve is all great and friendly and everyone's a winner. But in wvw the "rules of the game" are different. > > You can run whatever you want in pve at the end of the day you are fighting an AI. In wvw this will not cut it you have to run better builds and be overall more skilled or you're just gonna be a rallybot and have a bad time. > > > > Solution? Join a wvw guild. Ask for advice. Ask for tips for builds and your class. > > I don't know about most servers, Im on SoS and here for the most part guilds welcome all players who are willing to learned and get better. > > > > Or we could just reign in commanders powers a bit. Since it's not nice anyways and it is just a game. There is not need to do that though. I don't see what is there to discuss here even. If you don't like a commander, don't follow him. If you don't like any commanders on your server, try a different server. If you want to be part of a group, be ready to offer something for the group as well. Commanders don't pick and choose classes to be assholes. They do that to increase the chances of winning a fight which benefits the entire squad. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Manasa Devi.7958" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"RoseofGilead.8907" said: > > > > > > If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here. > > > > > > > > > > But where do you draw the line, your saying they have the right to not let certain classes in, can also exclude people they don't like? Can also exclude people of certain religions or ethnicity too? Oh now it's against tos. Hard to know how or why people are excluded. I think that in wvw if your tagged up, anyone from your server can join,unless it's a guild group comprised 100% of guild members. > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"RoseofGilead.8907" said: > > > > > > If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here. > > > > > > > > > > But where do you draw the line, your saying they have the right to not let certain classes in, can also exclude people they don't like? Can also exclude people of certain religions or ethnicity too? Oh now it's against tos. Hard to know how or why people are excluded. I think that in wvw if your tagged up, anyone from your server can join,unless it's a guild group comprised 100% of guild members. > > > > > > > > Why are people attempting to join a squad in wvw bringing up their ethnicity and religion? > > > > > > It was an example used to show that there is a clear line for when commanders are out of line. So since there is an established line of what commanders cannot do, I'm questioning the grey area below it where they exclude based on class or any other reason that is not as extreme as ethnicity or religion. Then I'm throwing into question why they should be able to exclude at all in a wvw setting where one server is supposed to work together on maps where usually one and only one commander tag is present. > > > > Right, and in the example given, the commander is working as leader of a team for the advancement of the server. > > > > Structuring his squad for greatest (theoretical) impact based on readily available data aids in this. > > > > Someone insisting on a spot in a squad despite not fitting the needs of the squad is the one seeking to not work together for the common good. > > > > I say this as a ranger main who, currently, spends the majority of my play time in WvW. > > There's no such thing as "advancement of the server". There's just some numbers reset to zero every friday and climbing up bit by bit until they're reset again. Forever and ever. Amen. Yes, as you say, there are your server's numbers to advance in order to win a match. Wont matter much to some people, will to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 Not all classes are blob classes. Commanders need blob classes for squad benefits, as certain classes are better at support/dps/booncorrupting that other classes. If Commanders accept non blob classes, they will lose fights. If a comm loses fight after fight, people leave and tend to follow said comm less and less. If less people follow a comm, that comm tags less, which means fewer people will eventually join the borderlands as no comm tags up You see the pattern? Either run your own party, become a roamer, or get a proper blob class. There is no discrimination or whatever. Even better, YOU tag up and accept everyone. Tell us how it goes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > @"Shagaliscious.6281" said: > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Asltok.4327" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RoseofGilead.8907" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But where do you draw the line, your saying they have the right to not let certain classes in, can also exclude people they don't like? Can also exclude people of certain religions or ethnicity too? Oh now it's against tos. Hard to know how or why people are excluded. I think that in wvw if your tagged up, anyone from your server can join,unless it's a guild group comprised 100% of guild members. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RoseofGilead.8907" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But where do you draw the line, your saying they have the right to not let certain classes in, can also exclude people they don't like? Can also exclude people of certain religions or ethnicity too? Oh now it's against tos. Hard to know how or why people are excluded. I think that in wvw if your tagged up, anyone from your server can join,unless it's a guild group comprised 100% of guild members. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are people attempting to join a squad in wvw bringing up their ethnicity and religion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They aren't, he just had to use an outrageous and extreme example to make his point look better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's what it is. If I don't want to play a video game with you, I won't. If I'm a leader of a group, I will reserve my right to pick who I want in my group. If I don't want certain classes, then I'm not taking them. This isn't some kindergarten inclusion zone. It's not my problem you chose to play the game in a way I deem ineffective, and I won't hamper my own time and enjoyment just to cater to you. And if it ever comes to extremes like that? It's still a video game that I use my time and money to enjoy, and if I don't want to play with you for whatever reason, I will make my own group with it's own requirements, because my time is mine alone, and I choose how to spend it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like you should only be able to scrutinize if you have a 100% guild squad, as soon as you take in a pug, I don't feel like you should be able to exclude for any reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Player 1 should never be able to force player 2 to play with him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we are going to use outrageous examples here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Forcing someone else to play with you, when they do not wish to do so, is slavery. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Slavery is bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > How is that slavery? > > > > > > > > > > Forcing someone else to work for you when they do not wish to do so is slavery. Commanding in WvW is work (remember that work is a measure of effort and so even play is work). > > > > > > > > So they can just not tag up if they can't work with others, nothing forced about it. They are supposed to lead for the greater good, and utilize everyone. > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing to utilize for the group if someone is running a selfish build that brings no party support at all. > > > > That makes no sense. So the person who wants to play a game mode, regardless of how is selfish, but the person who has designated themselves as the leader and wants their squad tailor made and excludes others so everything is there way or the highway is not selfish? > > No commander can exclude others from playing the game mode. It is not physically possible. > > What we have here is a demand that others be forced to work for an individual against their will. > > Yah but If you want to play wvw in a zerg squad, and that commander doesn't let you in, and that map has the enemy zerg in it, and only one commander can really run in one map (if you try to tag up on a map with a tag already you get yelled at). Then you've effectively blocked that person from playing the game mode of their choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > Not all classes are blob classes. > Commanders need blob classes for squad benefits, as certain classes are better at support/dps/booncorrupting that other classes. > If Commanders accept non blob classes, they will lose fights. > If a comm loses fight after fight, people leave and tend to follow said comm less and less. > If less people follow a comm, that comm tags less, which means fewer people will eventually join the borderlands as no comm tags up > > You see the pattern? Either run your own party, become a roamer, or get a proper blob class. There is no discrimination or whatever. Even better, YOU tag up and accept everyone. Tell us how it goes > > It is exclusion you can dress it up how you like,and I don't think it's right, not an open game mode like wvw, the responsibility should be on the commanders shoulders. Arguing that they can do as they please and exclude or include at will is saying they can have their cake and eat it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > Not all classes are blob classes. > > Commanders need blob classes for squad benefits, as certain classes are better at support/dps/booncorrupting that other classes. > > If Commanders accept non blob classes, they will lose fights. > > If a comm loses fight after fight, people leave and tend to follow said comm less and less. > > If less people follow a comm, that comm tags less, which means fewer people will eventually join the borderlands as no comm tags up > > > > You see the pattern? Either run your own party, become a roamer, or get a proper blob class. There is no discrimination or whatever. Even better, YOU tag up and accept everyone. Tell us how it goes > > > > > > It is exclusion you can dress it up how you like. A comm can also run a closed squad, as he HAS that option. Please, enough with the SJW stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seinka.4823 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > It is exclusion you can dress it up how you like,and I don't think it's right, What's wrong with exclusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auri.1365 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > Yah but If you want to play wvw in a zerg squad, and that commander doesn't let you in, and that map has the enemy zerg in it, and only one commander can really run in one map (if you try to tag up on a map with a tag already you get yelled at). Then you've effectively blocked that person from playing the game mode of their choice. You are not blocked from playing the game mode. As a non zerg profession you don't have benefits from beeing in the squad. For example: If you play thief you can't run inside the blob as you would probably die to fast, it is better to run alongside the squad and pick your targets. Therefore if you would be in the squad you still wouldn't get boons and healing as you are out of range, so there is no need to be in squad. If the squad is not full I don't see a problem of non zerg professions beeing in squad as you can form the groups accordingly. But if you have a full squad and want to win fights you should try to organise your squad so that most players benefit from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > @"Shagaliscious.6281" said: > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Asltok.4327" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RoseofGilead.8907" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But where do you draw the line, your saying they have the right to not let certain classes in, can also exclude people they don't like? Can also exclude people of certain religions or ethnicity too? Oh now it's against tos. Hard to know how or why people are excluded. I think that in wvw if your tagged up, anyone from your server can join,unless it's a guild group comprised 100% of guild members. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"RoseofGilead.8907" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a Commander is running a squad, they do have the right to tell people to switch to a different class; it's their tag and their squad, so they get to make the rules, as long as they're not verbally harassing anyone. However, the other players also have a right to not play in that Commander's squad and either join a new squad or just run along with the squad, without actually being IN the squad. No "technical solution" is needed here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But where do you draw the line, your saying they have the right to not let certain classes in, can also exclude people they don't like? Can also exclude people of certain religions or ethnicity too? Oh now it's against tos. Hard to know how or why people are excluded. I think that in wvw if your tagged up, anyone from your server can join,unless it's a guild group comprised 100% of guild members. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why are people attempting to join a squad in wvw bringing up their ethnicity and religion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They aren't, he just had to use an outrageous and extreme example to make his point look better. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's what it is. If I don't want to play a video game with you, I won't. If I'm a leader of a group, I will reserve my right to pick who I want in my group. If I don't want certain classes, then I'm not taking them. This isn't some kindergarten inclusion zone. It's not my problem you chose to play the game in a way I deem ineffective, and I won't hamper my own time and enjoyment just to cater to you. And if it ever comes to extremes like that? It's still a video game that I use my time and money to enjoy, and if I don't want to play with you for whatever reason, I will make my own group with it's own requirements, because my time is mine alone, and I choose how to spend it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like you should only be able to scrutinize if you have a 100% guild squad, as soon as you take in a pug, I don't feel like you should be able to exclude for any reason. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Player 1 should never be able to force player 2 to play with him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If we are going to use outrageous examples here: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Forcing someone else to play with you, when they do not wish to do so, is slavery. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Slavery is bad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How is that slavery? > > > > > > > > > > > > Forcing someone else to work for you when they do not wish to do so is slavery. Commanding in WvW is work (remember that work is a measure of effort and so even play is work). > > > > > > > > > > So they can just not tag up if they can't work with others, nothing forced about it. They are supposed to lead for the greater good, and utilize everyone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is nothing to utilize for the group if someone is running a selfish build that brings no party support at all. > > > > > > That makes no sense. So the person who wants to play a game mode, regardless of how is selfish, but the person who has designated themselves as the leader and wants their squad tailor made and excludes others so everything is there way or the highway is not selfish? > > > > No commander can exclude others from playing the game mode. It is not physically possible. > > > > What we have here is a demand that others be forced to work for an individual against their will. > > > > > > Yah but If you want to play wvw in a zerg squad, and that commander doesn't let you in, and that map has the enemy zerg in it, and only one commander can really run in one map (if you try to tag up on a map with a tag already you get yelled at). Then you've effectively blocked that person from playing the game mode of their choice. No you have not blocked that player from the game mode. I see multiple tags, each hitting the enemy at different points, coming to helo each other with heavy resistance on occasion, without a problem, with some degree of frequency. You do not have the right to force servitude, slavery, upon others because its what you enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > Not all classes are blob classes. > > Commanders need blob classes for squad benefits, as certain classes are better at support/dps/booncorrupting that other classes. > > If Commanders accept non blob classes, they will lose fights. > > If a comm loses fight after fight, people leave and tend to follow said comm less and less. > > If less people follow a comm, that comm tags less, which means fewer people will eventually join the borderlands as no comm tags up > > > > You see the pattern? Either run your own party, become a roamer, or get a proper blob class. There is no discrimination or whatever. Even better, YOU tag up and accept everyone. Tell us how it goes > > > > > > It is exclusion you can dress it up how you like,and I don't think it's right, not an open game mode like wvw, the responsibility should be on the commanders shoulders. Arguing that they can do as they please and exclude or include at will is saying they can have their cake and eat it too. Tag up, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sreoom.3690 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 If a commander wants to reimburse me for what I paid to play the game and for my in game investments, then I'll let him tell me what class to play...other than that, he/she can pound sand, I'm going to play what I want, when I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rococo.8347 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 We didn't have to put up with this kitten back in the day - ive never seen it happen in Deso but I don't WvW very often these days and Deso is the scrubs PUG's server so... Run alongside them, without joining the tag and if the Comm finds himself it trouble...he can ask one of his squad to get him out of it. Of course its more fun if you actually like the group you are running with and the squad has a good selection of useful classes but it doesn't have to be like that. Sad to say all of the elitism, with 'meta' min maxing neck bearding that I knew would creep into the game with raids being added is now infiltrating other game modes - its insidious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Rococo.8347" said: > We didn't have to put up with this kitten back in the day - ive never seen it happen in Deso but I don't WvW very often these days and Deso is the scrubs PUG's server so... > > Run alongside them, without joining the tag and if the Comm finds himself it trouble...he can ask one of his squad to get him out of it. Of course its more fun if you actually like the group you are running with and the squad has a good selection of useful classes but it doesn't have to be like that. > > Sad to say all of the elitism, with 'meta' min maxing neck bearding that I knew would creep into the game with raids being added is now infiltrating other game modes - its insidious. Weiird, commanders seeking specific composition for their groups in WvW predates the existence of raids in this game. The same is true of meta centered group play. Something is insidious here, but it seems more centered around inventing things to blame on raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Avelione.6075" said: > It's been bugging me for a while now. GW2 is a social game but do commanders have right to tell people which profession should they play?? I'm a semi-casual player though many times I get pretty good in WvW and PvP. > And in WvW some of the commanders just straightforward tell you that they don't want this and that class. Which I think is unfair because from my point of view is like... I paid for/chose this game and I play as I please. I'd rather look for a different commander than play with someone who tells me which character I should play. I'm "lucky" enough that I have all the professions playable (but 4-5 of them are my mains). What about people who have no such profession?? It sucks! > > If a commander wishes to have only certain professions in his/hers squad, he/she should organize a squad from their guild/friends, etc that would go for their rules. > THIS IS A THING THAT REALLY NEEDS SOME KIND OF TECHNICAL SOLUTION!! > > (Or commanders stop being so picky ;p) If this is someone running a Guild/closed tag? Absolutely, they can say whatever they want. They can try-hard all day. I've seen a couple of the more Toxic PuGmanders try and pull this stuff too. I find it laughable. They think that there is some kind of magic comp that will make them win. Then you look at their squads and half the people arent even running food. Know where I have never seen this kind of stupid? Servers that win. Any decent PuGmander knows one truism about WvW. It's a numbers game. The bigger the zerg the better you do. Cutting people out just because their class isn't meta means a smaller group. That means less of everything. This is not a thing that needs a technical solution at all. Their group, their rules. You are free to play what you want, so are they. Best not to follow people like this. They aren't going very far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluffball.8307 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 I didn't read any responses so don't know if it's been brought up, but squads are EXCLUSIVELY for organizing boons. If you're a thief or LB ranger or whatever, _you don't need stability_. You should feel free to play with the zerg, but don't steal a frontline character's boons and don't get offended if they need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Rococo.8347" said: > Sad to say all of the elitism, with 'meta' min maxing neck bearding that I knew would creep into the game with raids being added is now infiltrating other game modes - its insidious. You trying to blame PvE raids for these toxic try-hards more a comment on you than anything else. Most WvW hardcores never touch raids. ...and you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrbitalButt.5708 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"Jumpin Lumpix.6108" said: > > @"Voltekka.2375" said: > > Not all classes are blob classes. > > Commanders need blob classes for squad benefits, as certain classes are better at support/dps/booncorrupting that other classes. > > If Commanders accept non blob classes, they will lose fights. > > If a comm loses fight after fight, people leave and tend to follow said comm less and less. > > If less people follow a comm, that comm tags less, which means fewer people will eventually join the borderlands as no comm tags up > > > > You see the pattern? Either run your own party, become a roamer, or get a proper blob class. There is no discrimination or whatever. Even better, YOU tag up and accept everyone. Tell us how it goes > > > > > > It is exclusion you can dress it up how you like,and I don't think it's right, not an open game mode like wvw, the responsibility should be on the commanders shoulders. Arguing that they can do as they please and exclude or include at will is saying they can have their cake and eat it too. Get a tag and make your own squad. Otherwise, tough luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dashingsteel.3410 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 "If you are not currently running scourge, firebrand, or spellbreaker, please leave the map and come back as one of those"....... This is a statement I have seen commanders repeat in the last few months.... It is a little depressing to think that only 3 elite specs are what is required to win in wvw. If this is true, it is a condemnation on Anet's ability to provide balance in the game. What if you don't have PoF? Should you pay to win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voltekka.2375 Posted April 15, 2018 Share Posted April 15, 2018 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > > @"Avelione.6075" said: > > It's been bugging me for a while now. GW2 is a social game but do commanders have right to tell people which profession should they play?? I'm a semi-casual player though many times I get pretty good in WvW and PvP. > > And in WvW some of the commanders just straightforward tell you that they don't want this and that class. Which I think is unfair because from my point of view is like... I paid for/chose this game and I play as I please. I'd rather look for a different commander than play with someone who tells me which character I should play. I'm "lucky" enough that I have all the professions playable (but 4-5 of them are my mains). What about people who have no such profession?? It sucks! > > > > If a commander wishes to have only certain professions in his/hers squad, he/she should organize a squad from their guild/friends, etc that would go for their rules. > > THIS IS A THING THAT REALLY NEEDS SOME KIND OF TECHNICAL SOLUTION!! > > > > (Or commanders stop being so picky ;p) > > If this is someone running a Guild/closed tag? Absolutely, they can say whatever they want. They can try-hard all day. > I've seen a couple of the more Toxic PuGmanders try and pull this stuff too. I find it laughable. They think that there is some kind of magic comp that will make them win. Then you look at their squads and half the people arent even running food. > Know where I have never seen this kind of stupid? > Servers that win. > > Any decent PuGmander knows one truism about WvW. It's a numbers game. The bigger the zerg the better you do. Cutting people out just because their class isn't meta means a smaller group. That means less of everything. > This is not a thing that needs a technical solution at all. Their group, their rules. You are free to play what you want, so are they. > Best not to follow people like this. > They aren't going very far. Lol, its "numbers game" This cant be further away from the truth. It is about quality of players, first and foremost, then about numbers See how deso play with NG and without them See how Vabbi play with Ez and without them Try to actually realise how organized wvw groups play, and the damage they are capable of doing in small numbers. They can turn entire blobfights around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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