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[Miss Lana.5276]

> @WARIORSCHARGEING.2637 said:

> and this is a new forum and not the old forums .

 

Just because it's a new forum doesn't mean it'll change the way they respond to questions and concerns.

 

Also I don't appreciate your snark towards my sig.

 

---

49 Characters|Necro|Raider|Fractaller|PvPer|Singer

So long Treeface o7

"...Kormir? I know not of whom you speak."

[Teraphas.6210]

> @Haishao.6851 said:

> > @Einlanzer.1627 said:

> > There's a reason thumb's up deserves to stay while thumb's down doesn't, and it's very simple:

> >

> > it's easy to agree with an idea without contributing additional thoughts to it, and doing so is a positive action that helps draw attention to the topic. But, common courtesy should suggest that disagreement should be more thoughtful. If you're unable to come up with reasons why you actually disagree with something, the most proper course of action is to just avoid engaging on the topic. If you come up with reasons, post them in a constructive way.

> >

> > Additionally, having only a positive reaction helps to avoid the problem of alliance-forming that we see in polarized camps; i.e. American politics, which tends to entrench people in emotional bubbles and undermines rational discussion on the topic.

> >

>

> You can disagree and show dislike for something without feeling the need to write more that what has already been said.

> There's also posts that really don't deserve a reply. Like when people call others stupid/toxic or kitten moron. A simple thumb down is very useful in those situation.

>

> Having only thumbs up doesn't help anything else than inflate the ego and create echo chambers where disagreement is ignored.

> It has absolutely no reason to exist without thumbs down.

>

> A scale with a missing plate will never show the value of what you put on it.

> Thumbs up without thumbs down is nothing else than alternative facts.

>

> Now that Thumbs down is gone, thumbs up should be removed.

 

Yes but you can also thumbs up a disagreeing post as many have done in this thread.

 

In general unless you really new to a discussion you can find an opinion that you feel aligned with and support that one if you don't feel strongly enough to post you own dissenting opinion.

 

Thumbs down just usually struck me as too easy and too bandwagony. I see it all the time in reddit where people just downvote someone seemingly becuase they already have downvotes but someone else expressing a similar opinion will have little to no up/down movement.

 

Give it a chance. I almost think of the thumbs up as a rally button of people showing support more than agreement necessarily. Perhaps it needs a different name than thumb up with the down being gone but the sentiment I think works better than down tends to in what i have seen in other sites.

[TexZero.7910]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> We will be leaving the remaining reactions in place. They are intended to allow players to express their thoughts on other posts without feeling that they must expound on them. It also allows them to enhance their comments with a suitable reaction.

>

> For example:

> * Read a post and find it useful? You can flag it as "Helpful" and you're good, **_or_** post in response, as you desire. Or both! The reaction system gives you more flexibility.

> * Like the effort that someone put into their post, but don't really have an opinion about the content? (For example, maybe it's a very detailed essay on a profession about which you're not proficient.) You can click "Thumbs up" to show your support for their effort.

> * Notice a link to a great piece of art, but don't have anything new to say on the subject? Click "Thumbs up" to recognize the artist without posting a "+1 post."

>

> The "Thumbs Down" reaction wasn't of value. The "Thumbs Up" and "Helpful" will remain in place for those who choose to use them. If you do not care to engage in the Reaction System, please feel free to completely ignore it and go about your normal forum business. =)

>

>

 

I know this isn't up for much more discourse but i'd like to add that thumbs down had a value as well.

 

It let people silently voice themselves without running threads into a circular nature as previously seen in area's of the old forums and that behavior will likely increase again on these forums now that the only way to express oneself is through text that's already been said time-in and time-out.

 

[Ohoni.6057]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > I've seen forums with a dev tracker on the front page similar to this one, but it offered like 10+ "pages" of tracked posts, rather than just two. That would certainly help.

>

> You mean like the link at the top left that says, [Dev Tracker](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussions/tagged/arenanet "Dev Tracker")?

 

No, like the thing on the front page where it says "latest ANet posts," except with more pages to it so that it goes back dozens of posts instead of just eight or less.

[WARIORSCHARGEING.2637]

have noting to add to this topic

[OriOri.8724]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> The "Thumbs Down" reaction wasn't of value. The "Thumbs Up" and "Helpful" will remain in place for those who choose to use them. If you do not care to engage in the Reaction System, please feel free to completely ignore it and go about your normal forum business. =)

>

>

 

I see. I 100% disagree that Thumbs down wasn't of value to the forums. It provides valuable information about the proportion of people that like a post.

 

A post with 10 thumbs up may be viewed as generally a good idea/comment/post under the current system. But under the old system, you could have a post with 10 thumbs up, and 50 thumbs down, which shows that, even though it did get 10 thumbs up, there was still only a small proportion of the forum population that agreed with it. This is CRUCIAL information in some threads (like, oh idk, balance and skill/trait rework discussions), and removing our access to it was a bad move. I cannot agree with this decision at all. At this rate, we might as well go back to just having the blind +1 button on the old forums that didn't show you how many other people liked that post. Because right now, we only see part of the picture.

 

Overall a very poorly thought out change.

[Ameepa.6793]

> @kurfu.5623 said:

> Either have both options to thumbs up/down, or have neither.

>

> One without the other makes no logical sense, unless the goal is to create a sense of fake positiveness.

 

Agreed! This is how it should be.

 

[Justine.6351]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> > The "Thumbs Down" reaction wasn't of value. The "Thumbs Up" and "Helpful" will remain in place for those who choose to use them. If you do not care to engage in the Reaction System, please feel free to completely ignore it and go about your normal forum business. =)

> >

> >

>

> I see. I 100% disagree that Thumbs down wasn't of value to the forums. It provides valuable information about the proportion of people that like a post.

>

> A post with 10 thumbs up may be viewed as generally a good idea/comment/post under the current system. But under the old system, you could have a post with 10 thumbs up, and 50 thumbs down, which shows that, even though it did get 10 thumbs up, there was still only a small proportion of the forum population that agreed with it. This is CRUCIAL information in some threads (like, oh idk, balance and skill/trait rework discussions), and removing our access to it was a bad move. I cannot agree with this decision at all. At this rate, we might as well go back to just having the blind +1 button on the old forums that didn't show you how many other people liked that post. Because right now, we only see part of the picture.

>

> Overall a very poorly thought out change.

 

People weren't just thumbs down bad non-sense posts. They were thumbs down anything/anyone that they didn't like period. Then other people were just posting stuff that they knew everyone else would just thumbs up like farming the forums was a thing lol.

 

It was a system were anything/anyone the masses wouldn't understand/agree with would get crushed with thumbs down and driven off the forums.

It was a system where people were just going to turn to pitch-fork forum posts to rake in thumbs up.

 

Why say anything counter to the masses when you can just play it safe and say "buff X needed, please read anet". Hardly a useful forum environment.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @Justine.6351 said:

> People weren't just thumbs down bad non-sense posts. They were thumbs down anything/anyone that they didn't like period. Then other people were just posting stuff that they knew everyone else would just thumbs up like farming the forums was a thing lol.

 

Yes, _as it should be._ Players should be able to register that they disagree with a post, without having to expound on it. There is nothing somehow "wrong" with that.

 

> It was a system were anything/anyone the masses wouldn't understand/agree with would get crushed with thumbs down and driven off the forums.

 

That's not how the tumbs work though. A post with thumbs down on it is not "crushed off the forums," it's still there, it just has thumbs down on it registering that people disagreed with its contents. There is, again, *absolutely nothing bad about that,* that is a system that is working well, because it allows players to fairly express whether they support an idea or don't.

 

> Why say anything counter to the masses when you can just play it safe and say "buff X needed, please read anet". Hardly a useful forum environment.

 

Why shy away from honesty when the worst that can happen is people thumbs down it? I posted a thread in the Elementalist boards that got a dozen or so thumbs down the last I'd checked, so what? Should I not have posted it? Should I have changed the content to garner more thumbs up? Why? I posted what I thought was a genuinely good idea, and I still do. I wanted a fair reaction from the community, and if portions of the community thought it was a bad ideal, I VALUE their honest feedback, as ANet should. Culling negative comments or only allowing positive emotes is just a sick distortion of reality that ultimately serves no one.

 

 

[aandiarie.7195]

This all seems too zoomed in and bright. Maybe change the background color and zoom stuff out some. All this white zoomed in stuff is really hurting my eyes.

[DakotaCoty.5721]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> The quirkiness of the Dev Tracker is definitely one of the element of my one-week report. In fact, it's amongst the top three issues.

 

Have you added the fix for quoting someone on that list? I've made 2 threads detailing the issue in two formats, but I've had no response about it.

[joneirikb.7506]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> We will be leaving the remaining reactions in place. They are intended to allow players to express their thoughts on other posts without feeling that they must expound on them. It also allows them to enhance their comments with a suitable reaction.

 

The same arguments are also good arguments for keeping the thumbs down.

 

> For example:

> * Read a post and find it useful? You can flag it as "Helpful" and you're good, **_or_** post in response, as you desire. Or both! The reaction system gives you more flexibility.

 

You could thumb down to show you disagreed with a post, balancing suggestions, make a new elephant ear gem store skin, the game needs giant lazer eye shooting T-rexes in pink ballerina dresses with invisible shoes etc. By removing the thumb down, you're actually forcing people to post more "negative" posts, like "lol thats a retarded idea!" or "If you think that would balance thief you need to uninstall the game!" etc.

 

If you want more positive posts and comments, remove "thumb up" so people have to POST positive feedback.

 

> * Like the effort that someone put into their post, but don't really have an opinion about the content? (For example, maybe it's a very detailed essay on a profession about which you're not proficient.) You can click "Thumbs up" to show your support for their effort.

 

Similarly the proficient players of profession X now have to post and tell every time they see someone that doesn't know the profession, or only plays a limited aspect of it, and tell them exactly how much they "suck". Both ways, this only encourages "posting negative"

 

> * Notice a link to a great piece of art, but don't have anything new to say on the subject? Click "Thumbs up" to recognize the artist without posting a "+1 post."

 

Similarly, if someone post a fairly amateurish piece of art, and have 5 friends "thump up" it, people will still see it as up-voted. Where with thumb down, a few others could down vote it, so it looks more split. Arguably saving someone with horrible internet connections (me atm) from having to click to load it.

 

> The "Thumbs Down" reaction wasn't of value. The "Thumbs Up" and "Helpful" will remain in place for those who choose to use them. If you do not care to engage in the Reaction System, please feel free to completely ignore it and go about your normal forum business. =)

 

As someone else said above, thumb up without thumb down loses its purpose. You might as well rename it to something like "ego +1" or "feelgood". And as someone else said above, you might as well just return to the old forums with hidden +1's and nothing else. I can see an argument for "Helpful", but not thumbs up (without thumbs down (But if you keep helpful and remove thumbs up, people are just going to use helpful as thumbs up...).

 

Ironically, the only thing I've used thumbs up on entire day, is up-voting posts that wants thumbs down back, or asks to remove both/all or nothing.

 

Also: Thumbs Down

[del.4068]

I hope this is the correct place to suggest this. There is already over 20 pages, I couldn't check them all, sorry. @"Gaile Gray.6029"

 

I am an artist, so naturally I would like to share my GW2 art with community. I was checking what kind of changes happened and I noticed that we still cannot put our artworks in the body of our posts (no functioning [/img]). What we can do is to link them and every time someone clicks to that link they will be directed to another page that informs them the link they clicked is external and wait for them re-click it.

 

I know this is for safety, and I don't think it should go away, but it is rather annoying and unnecessarily time consuming when you have to click through several of them on an art thread. Especially when an art thread only has black and red texts and no indication of what kind of work exhibiting there.

 

When I am viewing artworks of people in forums, I would like to be able to see these works in the body of that forum, without interference of going back and forth, and changing couple pages all at once just to see one single work. Here, my curiosity towards others' work turned into a struggle, I stopped checking the links in the 3rd click and was already had it enough with the changes. So I hope this will be the kind of fix you will consider establishing soon. I would really like to go through those threads without having the forum function working against us! :3

 

 

 

**TL:DR** - Please allow posting images themselves (.jpg, .png, .gif, etc) in the body of the forum posts (for Community Creations) to avoid time consuming and annoying redirecting/external link warnings that comes with _every single link ever_, so that we can use our art threads as small galleries to share our works.

[OriOri.8724]

> @Justine.6351 said:

> > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> > > The "Thumbs Down" reaction wasn't of value. The "Thumbs Up" and "Helpful" will remain in place for those who choose to use them. If you do not care to engage in the Reaction System, please feel free to completely ignore it and go about your normal forum business. =)

> > >

> > >

> >

> > I see. I 100% disagree that Thumbs down wasn't of value to the forums. It provides valuable information about the proportion of people that like a post.

> >

> > A post with 10 thumbs up may be viewed as generally a good idea/comment/post under the current system. But under the old system, you could have a post with 10 thumbs up, and 50 thumbs down, which shows that, even though it did get 10 thumbs up, there was still only a small proportion of the forum population that agreed with it. This is CRUCIAL information in some threads (like, oh idk, balance and skill/trait rework discussions), and removing our access to it was a bad move. I cannot agree with this decision at all. At this rate, we might as well go back to just having the blind +1 button on the old forums that didn't show you how many other people liked that post. Because right now, we only see part of the picture.

> >

> > Overall a very poorly thought out change.

>

> People weren't just thumbs down bad non-sense posts. They were thumbs down anything/anyone that they didn't like period. Then other people were just posting stuff that they knew everyone else would just thumbs up like farming the forums was a thing lol.

 

2 things about this sentence. First, the exact same argument applies to thumbs **_UP_**. There are some people that thumbs up anything/anyone that they do like, period. Why do so many people on these forums seem to be ok with this logic applying to thumbs up but not to thumbs down. Your arguments against thumbs down literally are also arguments against keeping thumbs up. So obviously the arguments are frivolous since most of you are in favor of keeping thumbs up. Second, that behavior isn't anything new. People did it in the old forums all the time. Seriously, go back and read some of the threads there, there were plenty of people that would just make a comment reiterating the same idea mentioned 20+ times in that same thread,because they knew that as a whole the thread wouldn't disagree with them. Same behavior, yet somehow it was acceptable on the old forums, but not on here?

 

>

> It was a system were anything/anyone the masses wouldn't understand/agree with would get crushed with thumbs down and driven off the forums.

> It was a system where people were just going to turn to pitch-fork forum posts to rake in thumbs up.

>

 

Ummmm, sweetie, that's not how the GW2 forums work. No matter how many downvotes your post got, it stayed in its same place. Similarly, no matter how many upvotes it got, it stayed in the same place. There's no "crushing" of any posts. And again, keeping the thumbs up does nothing to mitigate the problem with people making posts solely to get thumbs up. If that is a real concern, then the only solution is to remove thumbs up, not to keep it without keeping the information from thumbs down.

 

> Why say anything counter to the masses when you can just play it safe and say "buff X needed, please read anet". Hardly a useful forum environment.

 

Because you'll be downvoted if your suggestion doesn't make any sense and/or **_THE COMMUNITY DISAGREES WITH IT_**. That is literally the entire point of the downvote button, and that's how it was used for the most part, by the vast majority of forum members. It gave information as to how the community at large thought of a suggestion.

 

Take an example of the generic PvP post complaining about class X. Currently, we will have all of hte people that just hate class X (especially prominent with mesmers and thieves), that will upvote any thread suggesting to nerf those classes, regardless of how well thought out, or balanced, or fair the proposed changes are. If we still had thumbs down, those threads would have many more thumbs down than thumbs up, because its a thread that isn't trying to be fair, its just trying to nerf because the OP doesn't like class X. That shows that overall, teh community agrees that it's a stupid, poorly thought out idea. Now though, we don't have that perspective. All we see is that the community "agrees" with the post, because there's no way to provide easy to digest information showing you disagree with a suggestion.

 

Seriously, what's easier to digest? A 5 page thread where you have to read all of the posts and keep track of how many are for and against it? Or a simple upvote/downvote count that shows how the community as a whole agrees/disagrees with the idea.

[AegisRunestone.8672]

> @Krypto.2069 said:

> > @Winderly.2718 said:

> > "terrific features, including:

> > ...Search Engine"

> > Really ? We will finally have a functional search feature ? Skritt !

>

> Well, maybe it'll actually, finally work sometime in 2018... or maybe 2050, because the Search function (even on this *new* forum) STILL isn't working right now :-1: ..... WOW! :angry:

>

 

The search works fine for me. :) Perfectly, actually.

[Ashen.2907]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> Everything is subjective. No one can or should make a judgment that's intended to apply, unilaterally, to every single post for each individual.

>

> But when I see a thread had 30 "Helpful" nods, I'm going to pay attention. That tells me that *other forum members* have found it helpful, which in turn tells me that *I may find it helpful, too.* Naturally, obviously, one needs to read a thread to appraise it's helpfulness to them. But "Helpful" overall is... helpful to a forum. Which is why it is in place, and why it'll stay around. :)

 

If everything is subjective, how can you state that thumbsdown was of no value?

 

 

[Lanhelin.3480]

> @"Miss Lana.5276" said:

> > @"Silent The Gray.3091" said:

> > Just throwing this in here because I feel it needs to be continually addressed:

> >

> > Why is Reddit more official than the official forums?

> >

> > It is something I have always wondered about, never can seem to get a straight answer on why Arenanet loves Reddit more than their own forums. It's the equivalent of the CEO of a car company never driving the car his company manufactures and driving the competitors instead. Not only is it bad taste, it shows a lack of respect and loyalty to the company, is there some kind of internal secret reason why Reddit is more official that we just aren't going to be filled in on? If so that's okay by me, I'm just legitimately curious how it makes business sense. From the customer point of view, I'm not entirely sure where I'm supposed to get my updates still to this day, because the place you think you should be getting them, isn't the right place, i.e. the Guild Wars 2 forums SHOULD be the right place, instead it is actually Reddit.

> >

> > There are actually less updates on the development of the game on the forums than there are on Reddit and that really saddens me. Does Reddit have a better forum system than Arenanet? Is there something wrong with the forum system used here? Maybe Reddit has more resources, though I'd find that difficult to believe. Maybe the development teams at Arenanet hate their own forums so much that they refuse to use them. I have no idea what the reason could be, but I know that from the outside looking in, it just isn't proper. If you were playing World of Warcraft for example, no one in their right mind would think "Hey, I need to get my updates and information for this game from Yahoo Finance." No one in their right mind does that kind of stuff, so why do we do it here?

> >

> > Maybe they get a lot of funding from Reddit, the players who spend the most money on the game reside on Reddit, or Anet really just doesn't care about their own forums. There can only be so many reasons for their utter hate of their own forums. I do mean hate too, it's an insane ratio of Reddit posts by developers versus official forum posts.

>

> I agree with everything about this post. When something is addressed on reddit and not on the official forums it feels to me like the devs are trying to be sneaky about something by not telling the entire playerbase. I've seen comments by devs about a certain topic on reddit on day 1, but the first dev response I see about it on the forums it's 10+ days later. And if you confront them about this they just ignore it, which makes it all the more aggravating.

>

> Forget signatures, forget thumbs up/down. **THIS** is what needs to be addressed. If this alone is improved in the new forum I will be a happy necro.

>

> EDIT: A great example of this happening **RIGHT NOW** is a dev replying to concerns about the material storage change coming with PoF on **REDDIT**, but *NO ONE* is replying to the topic here.

 

It's probably because they can write uncensored kitten things on Reddit. I know of at least one other MMO developer too whose devs use a parallel forum where the tone also can become rougher from time to time, while in their own official forums something like this would lead to warnings, editings by mods or even bans.

[crashburntoo.7431]

When making a poll post, would it be possible to enable/disable comments? I realize that comments can add context and value, but they can also allow the poll to get derailed or carry on (especially with contentious topics). A well crafted poll with comments disabled would allow for an objective vote on the topic. Discussions could be had in non-poll threads or enabled in the poll, should the creator desire.

[Menadena.7482]

> @Ashen.2907 said:

> > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> > Everything is subjective. No one can or should make a judgment that's intended to apply, unilaterally, to every single post for each individual.

> >

> > But when I see a thread had 30 "Helpful" nods, I'm going to pay attention. That tells me that *other forum members* have found it helpful, which in turn tells me that *I may find it helpful, too.* Naturally, obviously, one needs to read a thread to appraise it's helpfulness to them. But "Helpful" overall is... helpful to a forum. Which is why it is in place, and why it'll stay around. :)

>

> If everything is subjective, how can you state that thumbsdown was of no value?

>

>

 

I guess maybe anet thought thumbsdown was of no value since the thread on it was removed? Or that is what the error message said when I reloaded the screen. *sigh*

[Menadena.7482]

> @crashburntoo.7431 said:

> When making a poll post, would it be possible to enable/disable comments? I realize that comments can add context and value, but they can also allow the poll to get derailed or carry on (especially with contentious topics). A well crafted poll with comments disabled would allow for an objective vote on the topic. Discussions could be had in non-poll threads or enabled in the poll, should the creator desire.

 

The problem is well-crafted polls, especially on forums, are rare. Even if you avoid such pitfalls as bias there should be a way to comment on your answers (the answer to some question you ask may be technically abc but because of def my answer may not be what you were seeking out, for example, I am a vegan so my answers to 'what should I have to eat' may not be what an omnivore wants).

[Haishao.6851]

> @crashburntoo.7431 said:

> When making a poll post, would it be possible to enable/disable comments? I realize that comments can add context and value, but they can also allow the poll to get derailed or carry on (especially with contentious topics). A well crafted poll with comments disabled would allow for an objective vote on the topic. Discussions could be had in non-poll threads or enabled in the poll, should the creator desire.

 

That's a bad idea.

We'd have completely useless threads with only a poll, then threads with the comments for the useless poll. That's 2 threads one the same subject cluttering the already extremely cluttered forums.

Beside, forum polls have no value. Well crafted or not, they're nothing more than a toy for forum posters.

[crashburntoo.7431]

> @Haishao.6851 said:

> > @crashburntoo.7431 said:

> > When making a poll post, would it be possible to enable/disable comments? I realize that comments can add context and value, but they can also allow the poll to get derailed or carry on (especially with contentious topics). A well crafted poll with comments disabled would allow for an objective vote on the topic. Discussions could be had in non-poll threads or enabled in the poll, should the creator desire.

>

> That's a bad idea.

> We'd have completely useless threads with only a poll, then threads with the comments for the useless poll. That's 2 threads one the same subject cluttering the already extremely cluttered forums.

> Beside, forum polls have no value. Well crafted or not, they're nothing more than a toy for forum posters.

 

I'm not suggesting that it be disabled (all polls have no comments), but rather an option to enable/disable comments be added to the Create Poll. @"Menadena.7482" makes an excellent point that a well-crafted poll would be rare, even with a lot of thought being put into them and how they're worded. I can see how I would miss viable options for some people, just because it isn't at the forefront of my thought process. Perhaps it is best that comments be constantly enabled, so people can provide more details around their vote or why they couldn't/wouldn't/shouldn't vote.

 

I disagree that forum polls have no value. They may have no value to some people, but they must be at least entertaining to those posting or participating.

[Menadena.7482]

Right, their main purpose is to start a conversation about something. If the main use of them here was to get actual data it would be another story but on most forums it is just a fast way to start a conversation. Even if the pollster does not intend what happened, google 'xfrodobagginsx' and 'religion' for some forum threads with badly designed polls that produced epic results.

[GreyWolf.8670]

An ignore account feature is very much needed.

[Sondergaard.8469]

Continuing on my previous feedback I noticed the left and right lanes at the top of the page have a very nice content filler image. So I added position: fixed; to the left and right image so they scroll with the forum and fill the lane rather nicely. An image of what this looks like can be seen here: https://imgur.com/a/khfhU