PvP was a failure, should support continue?

[Stephen.1207]

they pull pvp out of gw2 they should pull raids and wvw and fractals as well pvp was a lot better when there was no rewards real pvp players played the mode that's when it was fun now most r there for running in to die the intire match to get 3 pips to get the rewards

[Volrath.1473]

> @"Devilman.1532" said:

> Nah let it die. Pull the plug.

 

what?! is there still a plug left to pull? o.O'

[FyzE.3472]

> @"Volrath.1473" said:

> > @"Devilman.1532" said:

> > Nah let it die. Pull the plug.

>

> what?! is there still a plug left to pull? o.O'

 

Yup. It says "In case of scourge, pull"

[Highlie.7641]

you don't get enjoyment laughing at how bad the "balance team" is? if you can't even get that why do you bother playing?

 

 

[Sylosi.6503]

> @"lordhelmos.7623" said:

> The problems of PvP bleed into other game mods such as WvW and PvE -which are very successful and always populated.

 

Thanks for the laugh.

 

[lilypop.7819]

> @"heroicfish.8243" said:

>

> Actually, BDO is awful for "random 2 second kills," yet still remains incredibly popular even with all of its glaring flaw. Lots of people can die in a single skill in RBF or world pvp, depending on the class and if they were caught without superarmor/block/iframe. I 100% agree with you that it's not fun, so this could definitely be why PvP is failing after 6 years. I'm kind of hoping they'll make a f2p elite spec sometime soon, to try and at least somewhat "balance" the distance between free players and those who've bought expansions. If anything, it could lead to more purchases when people want to experience other elite specs, but would also keep people from immediately leaving once they get the notion they're less powerful than those who've bought expansions. I don't feel like the elite specs could be the biggest thing keeping people away, though, because a large portion of players love to pay for an edge.

>

> I still maintain, though, that it's a glaring problem with the game in no way reflecting its name. Having anything that would set players against eachother in the open world, particularly against each-others guilds, would definitely be a draw for players who've moved on to other games in search of that.

 

Would agreed on the name problem, but suspect there are technical issues in doing something similar to GW1 in GW2 - zerg v zerg fights in WvW are really pc spec v pc spec fights imo (you certainly get niffed at the 'Hoover' mechanics on display).

 

sPvP is never going to be popular because of the huge 'difference' in experience to core PvE. There is already a huge handicap in place for newish players who don't search the web for hacks and/or key macros and/or OP build specs etc (although the mods recently made to Unranked seem to have lessened this problem). How do you tell the difference between a 2sec kill that is valid and ones that are hacks without stopping mid game and rolling up the abbymal combat log - and even then because of the lack of exact timing it's still a bit vague. sPvP feels hacked to bits at times, it's very noticeable irrespective of the cause - most peeps conclude it's sHvH game mode. Anet claimed 1600 bans in three months whereas another high PvP, albeit currently more popular, game claimed over a million bans in one month. I played another Anet game (then part of NCsoft) when first released in the West called Aion, excellent game with a PvP elements, totally destroyed inside six months because of the refusal - or inability - to combat hackers and botters (btw: this was few years ago so I have no comment to make on the game now, as it has changed hands a few times since). Are Anet really serious about kicking cheats out of there game? Mmmm not convinced.

 

Still, would GW2 be a better game if sPvP and SSB swapped roles, that is make sPvP a 'rare' festival and SSB always available? Who lambasts SSB? Would cheaters suddenly flood into GW2 for a festival or would they retire and get there jollies ruining another game? Why not retire sPvP and bring it back in an entirely new and simpler format - for example a whole new PvP profession with 3 trait lines to start with - adding a new trait line with each visitation but more importantly as a limited time festival - you could big up the Norm lore to create such a festival (with this format you could try race v race, class v class, Core v Hot v PoF or even 'gawdforbit' guild v guild - in short free to experiment to find the most popular without much effort (or risk) on the designers part*.

 

Frankly I suspect Anet don't want a strong PvP element because all it does is draw in cheaters from other games. In reality there is a whole mass of peeps out there, who play on-line games to cheat, they feel that not cheating is 'not playing', such are the joys that come with an anonymous internet gaming community. We'll all better off without them as I suspect there are more than happy to abuse other players as is their nature.

 

* You could even try golem v golem latching onto more lore, and play mini-World-Of-Tanks like mode with a variety of maps - the BoM could be obtained via PvE loot/trade skills or bought with $$$ and the trait line could be very inventive (and not necessary dps giving the maps). A World-Of-Golems Festival every month, lasting say one week, would be pretty cute imo!

[Aza.2105]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> Conquest, and especially Ranked Conquest is the rough equivalent of Random Arenas (combined with some competitive mission) from Guild Wars 1. Random Arenas was never the main PVP mode. If you wanted glory is O GW you played in HA or GVG, RA was filler and full of players trying to "sync".

>

> [Guild Wars 1 PVP Modes](https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Player_versus_Player "https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Player_versus_Player")

>

> So many modes, and most required a team. I want to say "look, the population supported all of these modes" , but in GW2 having modes like these wouldn't be a huge draw on PVP, they would take away from PVE and WvW. GW1 didnt have this huge open world, it was all instanced.

 

Sort of. But team and random arena were death matches. The biggest problem with conquest is that its geared towards a tournament style setting that is suppose to rely heavily on communication and a premade team. Anet simply shoved this mode down the average players mouth and it doesn't work well. Anet did not bother to add voice commands or the ability to voice chat either. They need to drop conquest all together because it does not work well with randoms. Conquest should be reserved for ATs and Unranked/Ranked Arena should get different modes. Maybe something like Alliance Battle in gw1. It would be a much better game mode to group with random players.

 

[Mr Godlike.6098]

We guys from forum are not majority that can clearly say that something is failure.

 

We are just extremely vocal and hysterical minority.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"lordhelmos.7623" said:

> The small population in pvp is not the kind of community that can be grown or sustained simply because it’s just a group of people in a mental waiting room until they come to the realization that they would be happier leaving gw2 behind for a game fully built for pvp such as:

> Overwatch

> DOTA

> League of legends

> Paladins (which even has a meaner character with a shatter skill and gs beam main weapon)

> Fortnite

> PUBG

> Battlerite

> And many others

> The kind of people that are in pvp should go to these games because they really will just continue to be unhappy in gw2.

 

 

[Laughs in Charr]

Its funny because the majority of those games are more toxic than GW2 and are also suffering dwindling playerbases.

 

 

> @"Arioch.4810" said:

> Population is not an issue:

> Type of players that remained in PvP - that is the issue.

> Khewra salt mines and PvP chat = same amount of salt.

> If you had 100 good sociable players, PvP would be in a good spot. Same faces each match? Maybe, but faces you don't mind seeing. Ideally, players you love playing with/against :)

> I would start by filtering chat logs for let's say last 3 month, then give some reward to each PvP-er that typed ggwp while being on a losing side at the end, each PvP-er that opened with glhf..you get the idea.

> Reduce amount of salt -> simple way to promote gametype.

 

 

On the right track.

 

 

It's not a failure. Its rough around the edges, but there's a ton of people that still love it, myself included.

 

> @"Mr Godlike.6098" said:

> We guys from forum are not majority that can clearly say that something is failure.

>

> We are just extremely vocal and hysterical minority.

 

Sad but true

[GenghisKhan.7842]

NOPE

When I left GW2 2+yrs ago, I I mostly spent my time in PVP

Now that I returned, after getting PoF mounts and doing some HoT meta chains, guess what I enjoy again ?

 

GW2 PVP has important, radical flaws: many posts here share them, and I agree with most of them

But it's basically the only part of the game where your skill counts and it's still funny to many players

Also, I don't really see the small population issue: haven't actually met the same player twice, haven't met a guildie in a match by chance

 

I'd rather scrap the Conquest mode for good, it was useless from the start, and add a new mode primarily focused on fighting players rather than holding points: e.g. 5V5 / 10V10 team-wipes would be very easy and fun IMHO

[CaldaRaric.6305]

> @"JTGuevara.9018" said:

> I mean, wvw is getting an overhaul...so why not pvp? We all literally have nothing to lose at this point.

>

 

Because WvW has gathering nodes. Because it has gathering nodes, there is a chance people who play it will buy gems for gathering tools. Money is the only reason for a company to spend time of something.

[Vague Memory.2817]

Support stopped as soon as they decided to do only a two or three balance passes, even after the release of new elite specs, but it died when Anet realised that the big push to make PvP a brand name esport utterly failed. All that projected money that the pin-stripes thought they could make from sponsors evaporated, and so did their interest in PvP.

[Wisty.4135]

 

> Also, I don't really see the small population issue: haven't actually met the same player twice, haven't met a guildie in a match by chance

 

What luck you have. Most nights I play I get the same 2-3 dudes across 5 different matches. Really poor luck with the matchmaker...

 

[CaldaRaric.6305]

> @"Wisty.4135" said:

>

> > Also, I don't really see the small population issue: haven't actually met the same player twice, haven't met a guildie in a match by chance

>

> What luck you have. Most nights I play I get the same 2-3 dudes across 5 different matches. Really poor luck with the matchmaker...

>

 

I have the same bad luck. That guy must be lucky.

[Wisty.4135]

> @"CaldaRaric.6305" said:

> > @"Wisty.4135" said:

> >

> > > Also, I don't really see the small population issue: haven't actually met the same player twice, haven't met a guildie in a match by chance

> >

> > What luck you have. Most nights I play I get the same 2-3 dudes across 5 different matches. Really poor luck with the matchmaker...

> >

>

> I have the same bad luck. That guy must be lucky.

 

Not that this is a bad thing! Most of these dudes are pretty cool and we banter back and forth in the pre-game, and it becomes more fun from there. The salty ones I just mute... The only time I dread it is if they happen to be a premade scourge duo. :(

[CaldaRaric.6305]

> @"Wisty.4135" said:

> > @"CaldaRaric.6305" said:

> > > @"Wisty.4135" said:

> > >

> > > > Also, I don't really see the small population issue: haven't actually met the same player twice, haven't met a guildie in a match by chance

> > >

> > > What luck you have. Most nights I play I get the same 2-3 dudes across 5 different matches. Really poor luck with the matchmaker...

> > >

> >

> > I have the same bad luck. That guy must be lucky.

>

> Not that this is a bad thing! Most of these dudes are pretty cool and we banter back and forth in the pre-game, and it becomes more fun from there. The salty ones I just mute... The only time I dread it is if they happen to be a premade scourge duo. :(

 

I agree that it can be good. It just makes pvp feel small.

[luke.5082]

> Because WvW has gathering nodes. Because it has gathering nodes, there is a chance people who play it will buy gems for gathering tools. Money is the only reason for a company to spend time of something.

 

I would play a pvp mode that requires teams to gather and protect the gatherers.

 

Team with the most onions wins.

[Rodzynald.5897]

> @"BlueCar.1587" said:

> Well, esport was over because anet decided that gw2 doesnt only consist of pvp, thats why they didnt support pvp as much as it would have needed. Why dont delete pve, gw2 could be esport if anet only focused on pvp. Makes sense to me .....

 

It wouldn't have to go this way if they didn't decide to let the elite spec developers go wild without testing said specs before releasing HoT. The powercreep meta was a major wound inflicted upon this game mode. Before HoT it was surprisingly much better, the mistake margin was more severe and mistakes were punished. Now you can play in such a way that newbies can get to plat and pros can't even contain themselves on how good they are with strong options that can easily make up for any weaknesses. There is much more, but it doesn't matter at this point.

[witcher.3197]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> Big problem in gw2 pvp is that is still made for pve players :D

 

Anet's twisted sense of taking feedback.. I remember when everyone was complaining that PvE had all the shiny things and PvP rewards sucked, that PvP didn't feel like it was part of the game. So Anet listened!

 

Their first step in making PvP be on par with PvE was to take away the whole PvP skin system, basically killing the reward structure lol. What took 400 hours of PvP before now took 2 dungeon runs.

 

Anet took away any prestige over the years and turned PvP into a farming ground for PvE players who hate the gamemode, and then we wonder why it's a toxic environment.

[GenghisKhan.7842]

> @"CaldaRaric.6305" said:

> > @"Wisty.4135" said:

> >

> > > Also, I don't really see the small population issue: haven't actually met the same player twice, haven't met a guildie in a match by chance

> >

> > What luck you have. Most nights I play I get the same 2-3 dudes across 5 different matches. Really poor luck with the matchmaker...

> >

>

> I have the same bad luck. That guy must be lucky.

 

 

> @"Wisty.4135" said:

>

> > Also, I don't really see the small population issue: haven't actually met the same player twice, haven't met a guildie in a match by chance

>

> What luck you have. Most nights I play I get the same 2-3 dudes across 5 different matches. Really poor luck with the matchmaker...

>

 

Heh. Could depend on rating, though (I am silver)...

 

[DemKin.9063]

As someone who tried PvP for a bit not long ago to complete a reward track, the toxic atmosphere in PvP, especially compared to the rest of the game where people are so chill, and the amount of people just rocking classes they don't even necessarily like with braindead builds they find on the internet was enough to make me wanna step away from it. It is indeed one hell of a saltmine in there, some people are just mind-numbingly tryharding and for some reason will even show a great deal of arrogance towards beginners just looking to learn the game. Man... Just what you would expect from your average bad competitive community really, toxic, unwelcoming, and always going for the easy way to win. Lightyears away from all the PvE goodness this game has to offer, and for a lot of us PvE players, it's too much of a contrast. It's no wonder PvP players are indeed very few compared to the rest of the community. Should they stop supporting it, probably not, and I don't think it's Anet's policy to let even a small part of their players completly down, but you can't expect them to dedicate a larger part of their resources to a game mode that never really took off, and for a small part of the community that's infamously known for never being satisfied really, especially if it's gonna be at the expense of their vastly, vastly more popular PvE.

But yeah, just to give a bit of an input as a guy who tried to get into GW2 PvP, this toxic mentality of the easier the better, waiting on a handful of good players to put out their latest builds to then jump all over them and start grinding is enough to turn a lot of people and potential support away from this game mode. It's not just GW2, it's many other online competitive games, but players on GW2 don't seem to want none of that and I sure can't blame them. There is a line between casual MMO players and tryhards that casuals don't wanna cross. For a vast majority of players, PvP is just that small parenthesis you'll be quick to close once you got that reward you needed, and, seeing your posts, it's being treated as such by the dev team, unsurprisingly.

Oh, and also the imbalance between the classes is just too obvious, but we all saw that coming. Gitting gud just seems like way too much work when you have that necro and his two health bars that spams his AoEs and follows with that magical key to rush in.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Players are still enjoying it. Just keep PvP for the players who still like and enjoy it. Yes, it has its problems but as long as it has value for its current players why would you remove it?

[Larenc.1269]

The only issue gw2 pvp has is balance and population. As in all games Balance is an eternal issue while population will come and go.

 

I laughed nearly to death when someone said to hire one of those idiots from blizzard. You do realize that on wow at this moment you can 1 shot an entire raid party with their rogue class :p

 

We are in a diffrent era for gw2 the people who actually tried to play the game are taking longer breaks then normal and more frequently[till new content] While our new generation of players barely know how to move their characters and press 1 skill.

 

The issue is those players are wanting to pvp, However if they fight anyone who actually knows what their doing they wont have a good time. I have literately reported a guild groups of people that I thought were bots because they were so bad at stronghold [ and pretty much acted like bots] When people are getting confused with slow ineffective and poorly designed bots they need to rethink their actions and if they should be in this game mode or not.

[Wisty.4135]

> @"GenghisKhan.7842" said:

> > @"CaldaRaric.6305" said:

> > > @"Wisty.4135" said:

> > >

> > > > Also, I don't really see the small population issue: haven't actually met the same player twice, haven't met a guildie in a match by chance

> > >

> > > What luck you have. Most nights I play I get the same 2-3 dudes across 5 different matches. Really poor luck with the matchmaker...

> > >

> >

> > I have the same bad luck. That guy must be lucky.

>

>

> > @"Wisty.4135" said:

> >

> > > Also, I don't really see the small population issue: haven't actually met the same player twice, haven't met a guildie in a match by chance

> >

> > What luck you have. Most nights I play I get the same 2-3 dudes across 5 different matches. Really poor luck with the matchmaker...

> >

>

> Heh. Could depend on rating, though (I am silver)...

>

 

Yeah, though I only play unranked...

[Scary.8034]

Yes you're right, the instant 90% of the playerbase quit the game at launch because ¨vE sucked they should have dropped it compeltly and put all their effort on PvP, cause that's how you devellop a game.