Of Bodies and Minds: Mordremoth

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

There's been quite a bit of debate and confusion over the nature of Mordremoth, and this seems like the perfect chance to get clarification.

 

Throughout the end of Heart of Thorns, we're presented with the notion that Mordremoth does not have an actual physical body - that he is purely a being of mind. Though at the same time, the Mouth of Mordremoth acts and, sometimes, is referred to as the Elder Dragon. At other times, it's treated as merely a powerful champion of Mordremoth. In Vabbi, the Commander tells students of how Mordremoth died: impaling itself on a tree, which is how the Mouth of Mordremoth died.

 

So to the question: What is the connection between Mordremoth and the Mouth of Mordremoth? Is the Mouth Mordremoth's actual body, merely a part of it, or not at all? If the second, what is the rest? If the last, does Mordremoth have a physical body at all?

 

And an addendum: Artist [Marcus Jackson](https://www.artstation.com/artwork/Ew1Eq) calls the Mordrem Spitfires "Lesser Mordremoth Heads". Is this solely in reference to their appearance, or are Spitfires part of Mordremoth (too)?

 

Addendum 2 because similar topic: The dialogue with Laranthir and during Hearts and Minds implies that the Mouth of Mordremoth is fought multiple times; at least three times to be specific. Is this the case?

 

My theory on the matter, in spoilers to not influence the answer,

would be that Mordremoth can transfer his mind across his corruption, such as we see him do with Trahearne, and our journey into the Dream was less of killing the mind, and more of severing his ability to do so, his connection to the Dream (similar to what the Vision does to Ultron in Avengers 2). Further, that while the Mouth of Mordremoth is Mordy's "current body" it is not his original/true body, and that when we kill him, he possesses a Spitfire to grow into a brand new Mouth, explaining the similarity and Jackon's nickname for Spitfires. Basically meaning that Spitfires are "backup bodies" for Mordremoth should his current one die. With the meta's progress, we kill most/all of those backups, forcing him to go into a new type of body (Trahearne) shortly before we sever that tie, leaving his mind fractured between Trahearne and the last Mouth. Which we then kill, first Trahearne, then the last Mouth which merely held Mordremoth's "manifestation of its hunger" as Laranthir puts it.

 

 

(EDIT: Odd, why is the spoiler showing up as a block of gray one must highlight and not the usual spoiler button? Did the forum get changed?)

 

(EDIT2: And it fixed itself. Curious.)

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

Good questions.

(And thanks for separating out your personal theories — that allows the devs to focus on your main concerns, without feeling the need to comment directly on how we see things.)

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

-removing needless commentary, deletion of posts would be wunderbar...-

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Shameless bump to hopefully get this seen by last minute devs.

 

This is a point of constant confusion, what the relation of Mordremoth and the Mouth of Mordremoth is, and what the state of Mordremoth's body (or if there is a body) is.

[Tyson.5160]

Did you get any answers from your questions, Konig?

[MatthewMedina.5419]

Caveat - this is a complicated question and we only touched on it lightly in-game, and as our policy goes, if it's not in-game it's not necessarily canon, so take this overview as only semi-canonical until/unless its confirmed officially.

 

This is my understanding based on what we HAVE said about this in game (and which your theory closely matches).

 

Mordremoth may, at one time, have had a traditional corporeal body as a "dragon". Honestly, it's the only one who probably remembers and at this point it really isn't important. At some point in history as it fed and grew however, it "became" the jungle. It grew into the ground, spread vines and roots as offshoots of its physical self, while at the same time, its mind grew to encompass this huge mass. As such, Mordremoth isn't one single entity, unless you are describing the entire jungle.

 

The "Mouth of Mordremoth" is Mordremoth in the same way that the vines and roots of the jungle which tear the Pact fleet down is Mordremoth. And the Avatar of Mordremoth you fight in "Hearts and Minds" is also Mordremoth. All of its physical manifestations can be hurt/killed but until you destroy its mind entirely, it never really "dies". As you noted, there was enough concurrent attacks on Mordremoth's physical aspects at the end of Heart of Thorns, and while parts of its mind are distracted to fight off those attacks, the Commander's team enters its central mind and defeats it there. But even then there's still a kernel of its consciousness in a certain valuable "host", so that when you finally destroy the last vestige of that in Trahearne, Mordremoth finally does meet its end. This leaves the body (the jungle, vines, certain mordrem etc.) behind still somewhat functional, but effectively handicapped without that central overmind to direct it.

 

To reiterate, I can't say this is 100% officially accurate, because it's very much only inferred or implied at points in the story and it may be subject to change in subsequent releases. But as of the state of the in-game information today, this is, I feel, an adequate explanation.