Spirits of the Wild

[RainPumpkin.7253]

Can the Spirits of the Wild hears us, Norns, in far places like the Heart of Magguma? What about in the Desert?

The most far act done by them we know is from the Orr Personal Story Step where we discover the map that was given to the Norn crew that was hit by the Rise of Orr and Zhaitan.

[Scott McGough.6897]

The Spirits of the Wild can absolutely hear norn who call upon them, regardless of where those norn are when they call.

 

Keep in mind that the SoW are not like gods who answer prayers or directly respond to their followers--norn call upon their patron Spirit to invoke the Spirit's power (e.g., wisdom from Raven, stealth from Snow Leopard) and inspire themselves to achieve great things, but one-on-one interactions between the Spirits and individual norn are very rare.

 

For example, a Wolf Shaman might preach about what Wolf teaches about cooperation and collective effort, and a norn in the middle of a desert might invoke Wolf to make sure everyone present works together effectively to reach their final destination, but their expectation is that it's less of a transactional thing ("I prayed for deliverance and so Wolf delivered us") and more of inspirational thing ("I called upon Wolf to guide and inspire us so we can fix this ourselves, and he did, so we could.")

[RainPumpkin.7253]

> @"Scott McGough.6897" said:

> Keep in mind that the SoW are not like gods who answer prayers or directly respond to their followers--norn call upon their patron Spirit to invoke the Spirit's power (e.g., wisdom from Raven, stealth from Snow Leopard) and inspire themselves to achieve great things, but one-on-one interactions between the Spirits and individual norn are very rare.

One of the very rare ocasions being the awakening of Jormag and the Norn fleeing South, with the death of Owl.

I was recently reading stuff about the Spirits of the Wild recently (big fan of Norn and Snow maps) and I found that currently we have no clue of who is, if there even is, the Havroun of Bear. The last Havroun of Bear died in Orr during the Personal Story and was risen and killed by us, Havroun Grechen. Did she left another person on her place when she went to Orr, or is there no current Havroun of Bear?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

@"Scott McGough.6897"

 

Since the events of Romke's Final Voyage were brought up, I'm rather curious...

 

We see a "Bear Spirit", a "Wolf Spirit", a "Snow Leopard Spirit", but rather than seeing a "Raven Spirit" we instead see "Vision of Raven", and the vision is purple where the other three are white.

 

Why is this?

[RainPumpkin.7253]

Also, if Braham went North to places Norn haven't been in ages, shouldn't he have found clues about the missing Spirits of the Wild, Ox, Eagle and Wolverine?

Or was the place where Jormag stayed for a bit much more South than he had ever been / where he found resistence from the Spirits?

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"Scott McGough.6897" said:

> The Spirits of the Wild can absolutely hear norn who call upon them, regardless of where those norn are when they call.

>

> Keep in mind that the SoW are not like gods who answer prayers or directly respond to their followers--norn call upon their patron Spirit to invoke the Spirit's power (e.g., wisdom from Raven, stealth from Snow Leopard) and inspire themselves to achieve great things, but one-on-one interactions between the Spirits and individual norn are very rare.

>

> For example, a Wolf Shaman might preach about what Wolf teaches about cooperation and collective effort, and a norn in the middle of a desert might invoke Wolf to make sure everyone present works together effectively to reach their final destination, but their expectation is that it's less of a transactional thing ("I prayed for deliverance and so Wolf delivered us") and more of inspirational thing ("I called upon Wolf to guide and inspire us so we can fix this ourselves, and he did, so we could.")

 

So what exactly does that make the notion that the Spirits lead the Norns away from Jormag and saved them? Did they do so literally by intervening or are the Norns just giving them undeserved credit for it? Like, some smart Norn came up with the plan on his own and decided to credit Raven for it?

[foozlesprite.8051]

> @"RainPumpkin.7253" said:

> Also, if Braham went North to places Norn haven't been in ages, shouldn't he have found clues about the missing Spirits of the Wild, Ox, Eagle and Wolverine?

> Or was the place where Jormag stayed for a bit much more South than he had ever been / where he found resistence from the Spirits?

 

I'm not sure to what extent he was _looking_ for those clues. In the vastness of "North," you're hardly liable to just stumble over clues without following a lead and/or having it as your mission.

[Scott McGough.6897]

> @"RainPumpkin.7253" said:

> > @"Scott McGough.6897" said:

> > Keep in mind that the SoW are not like gods who answer prayers or directly respond to their followers--norn call upon their patron Spirit to invoke the Spirit's power (e.g., wisdom from Raven, stealth from Snow Leopard) and inspire themselves to achieve great things, but one-on-one interactions between the Spirits and individual norn are very rare.

> One of the very rare ocasions being the awakening of Jormag and the Norn fleeing South, with the death of Owl.

 

Absolutely. We have not dramatized this moment in game so it's still not canonically defined, but I've always interpreted the tales as one of the rare cases of the SoW manifesting visibly to lead those who invoked them; very extreme circumstances (death of Owl, potential deaths of all those norn) called for very unusual actions.

 

> I was recently reading stuff about the Spirits of the Wild recently (big fan of Norn and Snow maps) and I found that currently we have no clue of who is, if there even is, the Havroun of Bear. The last Havroun of Bear died in Orr during the Personal Story and was risen and killed by us, Havroun Grechen. Did she left another person on her place when she went to Orr, or is there no current Havroun of Bear?

 

It's true, Gretchen died and there was no obvious replacement standing by to take up the mantle of Bear Havroun.

 

It's also true that havrouns routinely have an apprentice they've been training up to take their place while they're also actively havroun-ing, so it's very possible Gretchen left behind a partially trained apprentice who now either needs to complete their training on their own, or find another mentor to help them finish their journey. It's likewise possible that the Bear Havroun slot is vacant and there's no one even partially trained standing by to take the job.

 

Either way, I think that'd make for an interesting story to pursue (with the caveat that I literally have no idea if any such plans are in the works--it's just an idea that appeals to me).

[Scott McGough.6897]

> @"foozlesprite.8051" said:

> > @"RainPumpkin.7253" said:

> > Also, if Braham went North to places Norn haven't been in ages, shouldn't he have found clues about the missing Spirits of the Wild, Ox, Eagle and Wolverine?

> > Or was the place where Jormag stayed for a bit much more South than he had ever been / where he found resistence from the Spirits?

>

> I'm not sure to what extent he was _looking_ for those clues. In the vastness of "North," you're hardly liable to just stumble over clues without following a lead and/or having it as your mission.

 

Agree with @"foozlesprite.8051" here--Braham wasn't there looking for evidence of other SoW, so the fact that he didn't find any is not especially surprising.

[Scott McGough.6897]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> So what exactly does that make the notion that the Spirits lead the Norns away from Jormag and saved them? Did they do so literally by intervening or are the Norns just giving them undeserved credit for it? Like, some smart Norn came up with the plan on his own and decided to credit Raven for it?

 

See the above answer RE: Owl's death and the intervention of the other SoW--we have not explored this in game so it's still an untold tale, but I've always taken it as the SoW directly acted/intervened to help the norn survive.

 

Though, that said, it's also fair to say a norn called on Raven to get them out of this mess, then that norn had a brainstorm/figured out a way to get to safety--in which case that norn'd be equally likely to say, "Thanks for the inspiration, Raven!" as they would, "Let my legend show: I didn't need Raven's help this time, I came up with a way out all on my own!" or even, "Hey, everybody! I just got an idea--uh, from Raven! Yeah, that's it....from Raven! So you know it's worth listening to! Follow me to safety!"

[Scott McGough.6897]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> @"Scott McGough.6897"

>

> Since the events of Romke's Final Voyage were brought up, I'm rather curious...

>

> We see a "Bear Spirit", a "Wolf Spirit", a "Snow Leopard Spirit", but rather than seeing a "Raven Spirit" we instead see "Vision of Raven", and the vision is purple where the other three are white.

>

> Why is this?

 

I'm honestly not sure what the intent was/why Raven was presented as a vision when the other spirits were not.

 

But I think if we're accepting that distinction (the "vision" is different/a representation of the spirit, and the other "Spirits" present are the actual spirit), I'd say it's because Raven is too smart to manifest that close to Zhaitan and risk being killed like Owl was. Bear is all about self-reliance and individual strength, so she didn't mind manifesting (and in fact maybe even saw it as a challenge to be met), Wolf was expressing loyalty/concerned about supporting the pack so he manifested, and Snow Leopard counted on her stealthy nature to keep her safe so she manifested.

 

Again, I can't say that was the intent, but that's how I see it.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Scott McGough.6897" said:

> Again, I can't say that was the intent, but that's how I see it.

 

of course, unless we go tracking down whoever made that story mission, we can just say it is. ;)

[Oglaf.1074]

> @"Scott McGough.6897" said:

> > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > So what exactly does that make the notion that the Spirits lead the Norns away from Jormag and saved them? Did they do so literally by intervening or are the Norns just giving them undeserved credit for it? Like, some smart Norn came up with the plan on his own and decided to credit Raven for it?

>

> See the above answer RE: Owl's death and the intervention of the other SoW--we have not explored this in game so it's still an untold tale, but I've always taken it as the SoW directly acted/intervened to help the norn survive.

>

> Though, that said, it's also fair to say a norn called on Raven to get them out of this mess, then that norn had a brainstorm/figured out a way to get to safety--in which case that norn'd be equally likely to say, "Thanks for the inspiration, Raven!" as they would, "Let my legend show: I didn't need Raven's help this time, I came up with a way out all on my own!" or even, "Hey, everybody! I just got an idea--uh, from Raven! Yeah, that's it....from Raven! So you know it's worth listening to! Follow me to safety!"

 

Norns are soooo left in the dust and ignored when it comes to exploring their lore and whatnot.

 

I dream of an expansion that focuses on them and Jormag...!

 

Still, I’m glad that I at least got confirmation on that. Thank you.

 

[Rognik.2579]

Did we know before that Snow Leopard and Bear were female, while Wolf was male? I don't think so, but maybe I just didn't pay close enough attention when talking to the norn priests.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Rognik.2579" said:

> Did we know before that Snow Leopard and Bear were female, while Wolf was male? I don't think so, but maybe I just didn't pay close enough attention when talking to the norn priests.

 

We knew Bear was female in Eye of the North. And I think the first time we got told about Snow Leopard she was given a female persona. Not sure when we were told Raven and Wolf were male though (not in the first mention by Egil in EotN, I'm sure).

[Donari.5237]

If you guys (writers) (and players too I guess!) are looking for animal spirit inspirations and how they might affect a culture, I suggest Adrian Tchaikovsky's series Echoes of the Fall. Gritty bronze age cultures where everyone is a shapeshifter so you have Wolf and Tiger and Horse clans etc. Though his Wolf is a lot less friendly than the Norn Wolf. (Warning, these are not kid-safe books).

 

The Bear leader in the books is known as Mother. Definitely female, definitely powerful :)

[Rajani Isa.6294]

> @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > @"Scott McGough.6897" said:

> > > @"Oglaf.1074" said:

> > > So what exactly does that make the notion that the Spirits lead the Norns away from Jormag and saved them? Did they do so literally by intervening or are the Norns just giving them undeserved credit for it? Like, some smart Norn came up with the plan on his own and decided to credit Raven for it?

> >

> > See the above answer RE: Owl's death and the intervention of the other SoW--we have not explored this in game so it's still an untold tale, but I've always taken it as the SoW directly acted/intervened to help the norn survive.

> >

> > Though, that said, it's also fair to say a norn called on Raven to get them out of this mess, then that norn had a brainstorm/figured out a way to get to safety--in which case that norn'd be equally likely to say, "Thanks for the inspiration, Raven!" as they would, "Let my legend show: I didn't need Raven's help this time, I came up with a way out all on my own!" or even, "Hey, everybody! I just got an idea--uh, from Raven! Yeah, that's it....from Raven! So you know it's worth listening to! Follow me to safety!"

>

> Norns are soooo left in the dust and ignored when it comes to exploring their lore and whatnot.

>

> I dream of an expansion that focuses on them and Jormag...!

>

> Still, I’m glad that I at least got confirmation on that. Thank you.

>

 

If they do, I hope they include bringing back Owl - I had a soft spot for them even before you find that lodge, because my grandmother loves them.

[MithranArkanere.8957]

I always wondered if the Spirits we see in game like Bear during Blood Washes Blood in Eye of the North, the Wolf over the wolf shrine and the minotaur in the story are the actual spirits, or more like a 'piece' of them, like some form of avatar or messenger of a more abstract "Spirit of xxx".

 

Ox, Owl and Wolverine were lost to Jormag, but it was because the spirits we see are the actual bodies that got gobbled up, or because Jormag could grab their avatars and use them to 'pull' them out of the mists?

 

While the Owl shrine makes it very clear she is no more, and Wolverine's hints it with "emptyness", the shrine to Ox kind of gives one hope when it says you can hear an animal running. And what happened with Eagle? She didn't even get a shrine in Lost Spirits' Hallow. Is she still alive? When thinking about them should we play "We'll Meet Again" by Julie Andrews or "The End" by The Doors?