Adamarc.7463 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 There seems to be a bug whereby keep/tower/castle lords are scaling with the total number of nearby players, rather than just the number of attackers. This means that when 15 people attack a keep, and 25 defend, the lord will scale for 40 people. Add in iron guards and it's effectively scaled for 80. Such scaling is illogical and imbalanced and is presumably not intended. The range also appears to be very long, such that a zerg passing through the outer northeast gate of Bay keep will already scale up the lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cogbyrn.7283 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Is there any proof to support your claim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X T D.6458 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I have noticed inconsistencies at times. Most noticeably the SMC lord. At times it will lose health very rapidly, other times it be very slow. I just always assumed it was due to the amount of damage coming from a group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coro.3176 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I don't have proof, but I can record this the next time it happens. My guild occasionally tries to steal a keep and will often make it to the lord room before the enemy zerg arrives to defend. So we're there trying to burn lord and the bar is dropping fast... but then it stops. You can feel the moment it scales up as the enemy zerg enters the keep area. At that moment, you know no amount of dps will let you finish the lord before that blob shows up. You might as well just leave the keep at this point, because your small 5-man group is about to get run over by 40-60. In the past, before the scaling, you could quickly finish the lord and cap the circle before the zerg gets there. Now ..the fact that the lord scales up from defenders, not just attackers has single-handedly killed the ability to ninja keeps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I actually noticed something the opposite way, less than 10 and occasionally the tower Lord gets curb stomped far harder than it should based solely on what I've experienced as a rank 3k. It sometimes feels like a scaled up camp boss. Wonder if something with lord scaling in general was changed intentionally or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 It has always scaled with defenders as well as attackers. This isn't new... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamarc.7463 Posted May 1, 2018 Author Share Posted May 1, 2018 Yes I think this bug has existed for a long time. But it would seem that many people are not aware of it including ArenaNet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 There were posts on the other forums... Players scale it up. Honestly, it's an early warning system for havoc teams. I mean, report it as a bug. But likely it's intended. It also likely has to do with the breakbar mechanic on bosses. It happens in PvE as well, and is likely based purely on numbers. Likely the mechanic can't be separated so it's now a "feature". Welcome to WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovu.7560 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Do we have hard numbers on each tier of scaling? There's very clearly a big jump at around 10+. The sweet spot, as many know it. ~ Kovu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morrolan.9608 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 I don't think its a bug, its just the way it works. As for the sweet spot the quickest I've seen Lords go down is having around 4-5 players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"Kovu.7560" said: > Do we have hard numbers on each tier of scaling? > There's very clearly a big jump at around 10+. The sweet spot, as many know it. > > ~ Kovu Methinks science is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Israel.7056 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 It would help to test this if we could see the exact hp numbers on the bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhiash.4910 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Problem is even more complex here, the keep lord scales with number of total players in capture keep event range. So for example if you attack bay from north with 10 ppl get to the lord room but meanwhile 3rd server approaches bay from south with 60 ppl, you basically cannot kill the lord as it scales to max. This is how it always worked, it was suggested to change years ago, I've never seen an official reply. Imo ideally lord should only scale by the number of attackers inside inner wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddie.5861 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 lord should be perma upscalled should get even more buffed when x players in range! so the fight cango on for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"Israel.7056" said: > It would help to test this if we could see the exact hp numbers on the bar. Would need cooperation from an enemy server to prevent inadvertent scale up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Arc DPS would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X T D.6458 Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 > @"Israel.7056" said: > It would help to test this if we could see the exact hp numbers on the bar. I think the devs are the only ones that can truly test this in a controlled setting, there are just so many factors involved. The rest is just based on personal experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackarps.1974 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 There is a bug and its been in the game for at least 2 years now. Its not generally an issue because you don't really try to kill the lord at the same time you're killing players. Its either before or after a fight. Anyways, from what I can tell, the bug occurs when too many people approach the lord too fast and get into combat with it. This isn't accurate 100% of the time but if you have say 10+ hit the lord all at once, it just bugs out and doesn't scale correctly then dies nearly instantly. I first noticed it in EOTM when a solid map queue hit the champion all at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 > @"Blackarps.1974" said: > There is a bug and its been in the game for at least 2 years now. Its not generally an issue because you don't really try to kill the lord at the same time you're killing players. Its either before or after a fight. Anyways, from what I can tell, the bug occurs when too many people approach the lord too fast and get into combat with it. This isn't accurate 100% of the time but if you have say 10+ hit the lord all at once, it just bugs out and doesn't scale correctly then dies nearly instantly. I first noticed it in EOTM when a solid map queue hit the champion all at once. Must say I have never ever seen this in 6 years of capping keeps pretty much daily, regardless of being in 5 man havocs or 80 man zone blobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"Blackarps.1974" said: > > There is a bug and its been in the game for at least 2 years now. Its not generally an issue because you don't really try to kill the lord at the same time you're killing players. Its either before or after a fight. Anyways, from what I can tell, the bug occurs when too many people approach the lord too fast and get into combat with it. This isn't accurate 100% of the time but if you have say 10+ hit the lord all at once, it just bugs out and doesn't scale correctly then dies nearly instantly. I first noticed it in EOTM when a solid map queue hit the champion all at once. > > Must say I have never ever seen this in 6 years of capping keeps pretty much daily, regardless of being in 5 man havocs or 80 man zone blobs. I thought the same thing, though I won't dispute his experience, I have comsistently seen the lords bar dropping fairly quickly with our 5 man havoc, then it suddenly slows to almost a crawl.,.. Usually if I don't see green dots, AND we aren't a hit or two away, we run lol. It's early warning for us lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malediktus.9250 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 > @"Kovu.7560" said: > Do we have hard numbers on each tier of scaling? > There's very clearly a big jump at around 10+. The sweet spot, as many know it. > > ~ Kovu Impossible to prove this bug without using 3rd party addon that shows the exact HP numbers. But it is clearly evidient that all players in the area scale up the lords. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dzeRnumbrd.6129 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 So you're saying if your blob of 50 gets into SMC lord room then you can have 15 people covering each corridor with AOEs and then send your mesmer's and thiefs to dispatch to the lord with super friendly scaling? That sounds wrong. If you choose to bring 50 people into a lord room that's your commander's choice to balance how many are doing defence and how many are doing damage. This is definitely trying to have your cake (very high defence) and eat it too (very high attack). It SHOULD scale based on players in proximity and not attacking players in proximity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celsith.2753 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > It has always scaled with defenders as well as attackers. This isn't new... > > This. It was stated on the old forums that they were unable to make scaling only be effected by attackers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 > @"dzeRnumbrd.6129" said: > So you're saying if your blob of 50 gets into SMC lord room then you can have 15 people covering each corridor with AOEs and then send your mesmer's and thiefs to dispatch to the lord with super friendly scaling? > > That sounds wrong. > > If you choose to bring 50 people into a lord room that's your commander's choice to balance how many are doing defence and how many are doing damage. > > This is definitely trying to have your cake (very high defence) and eat it too (very high attack). > > It SHOULD scale based on players in proximity and not attacking players in proximity. > It really depends on how you look at it. Defenders *should* have the advantage, right? Everyone always complains about the walls not doing anything, well this is the lord doing something. He gives defenders more time to react and bring in reinforcements. You could call it morale boost for the lord ;) Besides, why reward blobbing on offense without working for it? You want to take 80 people in to cap a keep then fine, but fuck it you better bring a majority of those to kill the lord instead of telling a couple of trash classes to kill it while you get your "fights" outside. I think its fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Mechanic´s that existed for years are bugs now. ONLY THIS FORUM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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