1v2 far and the Community's Intelligence

[Huskyboy.1053]

Since at least HoT release, there have been a number of builds whose success relies on sustaining in outnumbered situations. The most egregious example is Mender Druid, but at times Scrapper has taken on this role, as has bunker Guardian and now Paladin Chaos Chronomancer. Sometimes these builds' role is called a "sidenoder."

 

What's really sad is that these builds are always on meta build sites because they're super popular. Everyone knows these builds. Yet time after time, someone always thinks to themself "Well I bet **I** can kill him **this** time." No, you can't. These builds are designed to be nearly invincible outside of a 1v3 situation.

 

I'm going to put this out there: _These builds only exist because you think you can kill them. They are useless if you ignore them._ For the love of the game, please stop trying to outnumber people playing these builds. Just ignore them, they are low-impact if you don't try to fight them.

[BMW.2951]

HA good luck with that one man. No one listens and that is why ranked is frustrating.

[Abazigal.3679]

It's been a long time you have " viable situations " or " carry situations " not because you're good, but because you bet opponents aren't smart..

You run thief, opponents aren't chasing you. Alternatively, your 2 teammates are chasing opponent thief the whole game. Not fair isn't it ? Actually, this has gotten even worse with the mesmer meta.

 

That being said, it is situationnaly good to outnumber close. When you're tricapped, it's better to make sure you get close rather than yolo 1vX on each point, like it usually happens in solo queue.

[The Night Fox.6018]

Try to convey that in teamchat in the most benign way possible.

 

"Get the F off of far youre doing nothing there" is a little dramatic, and could make your ally more hard-headed.

 

"The Night Fox, we need your support/dps mid ASAP" The language taps into what a player can offer if he rotates as opposed to the previous which denotes wasted effort. To call attention to failure only works in an understood relationship IE friends, family, work if done politely.

 

Not saying there are no players who don't know some elements of the game, but I do know there is a lot of apathy and intentional smashing-head-against-a-tanky-build to spite fellow teammates that are responding with vitriol and hate-laced advice.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"The Night Fox.6018" said:

> Try to convey that in teamchat in the most benign way possible.

 

 

> Not saying there are no players who don't know some elements of the game, but I do know there is a lot of apathy and intentional smashing-head-against-a-tanky-build to spite fellow teammates that are responding with vitriol and hate-laced advice.

 

This. I've seen matches run pretty close until about 300, then someone pulls a small blunder and the person doing particularly poorly bombs the chat with ignorance and toxicity, and it makes the whole team play incredibly poorly from that point on and often lose.

 

Bashing your team only makes you lose faster. Specifying where you want specific people to go /why as quickly as possible is a good way to get through to the people too nervous to know what to do. And if the person you're talking to responds with bitterness / ignorance/ toxicity, this shows everyone who the kitten is and might inspire them to play harder to carry them.

 

 

[shadowpass.4236]

Anytime my teammates start arguing, I say, "Stop talking. Focus."

[pah.4931]

A LOT of people just want to fight (there was a thread about it last week). They see RED, the fight. Who cares if that character is unkillable solo or if they destroyed 4 times already 1v1. If you see red, you attack..

 

The best thing you can do is call it out in teamchat without any swear words (as mentioned above). Let the bunker join the other two node (and back cap with mesmer or thief) or let the rest of the game be 4v5 on mid and close.

[pah.4931]

> @"shadowpass.4236" said:

> Anytime my teammates start arguing, I say, "Stop talking. Focus."

 

Warhorn is better than focus for necro, atm.

 

Wait. Wrong thread...

[dominik.9721]

> @"Huskyboy.1053" said:

 

> I'm going to put this out there: _These builds only exist because you think you can kill them. They are useless if you ignore them._ For the love of the game, please stop trying to outnumber people playing these builds. Just ignore them, they are low-impact if you don't try to fight them.

 

No they are not useless "if you ignore them". It's not a bunker guard who pushs a capped node 1v1 and hopes another opponent comes.

Druid back then and chrono nowadays create a winning 1v1 matchup which forces the opponent to either give up the cap or to invest a +1 or even a +2 which makes the builds extremly strong, no matter how you react to a side push. Best option you have is to create a stalemate with a mirror duell.

You can not "ignore" them, if they push your node. Even if it's 5v5 , creating favorable 1v1s has the same huge impact as winning teamfights.

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Huskyboy.1053" said:

> Since at least HoT release, there have been a number of builds whose success relies on sustaining in outnumbered situations. The most egregious example is Mender Druid, but at times Scrapper has taken on this role, as has bunker Guardian and now Paladin Chaos Chronomancer. Sometimes these builds' role is called a "sidenoder."

>

> What's really sad is that these builds are always on meta build sites because they're super popular. Everyone knows these builds. Yet time after time, someone always thinks to themself "Well I bet **I** can kill him **this** time." No, you can't. These builds are designed to be nearly invincible outside of a 1v3 situation.

>

> I'm going to put this out there: _These builds only exist because you think you can kill them. They are useless if you ignore them._ For the love of the game, please stop trying to outnumber people playing these builds. Just ignore them, they are low-impact if you don't try to fight them.

 

So what about the community's intelligence? What did you want to say?

[Arioch.4810]

I'm encountering this a lot since i created my 1st bunker for PvP:

Wayyyy to often opposing players notice i'm down something like 40% HP and try to focus/finish me off, this happens a ton in groupfights.

Parked on sidenode i often get those 1v2 visits where i know i can last at least 60 seconds while holding point before being forced to regroup, and meanwhile in the other parts of the map...good times!

 

I think this has a lot to do with tunnel vision - people wanting to down someone - and having PvP goals (achievements ) that push you to go for killing/hunting top stats/etc is not at all helpful to the average team.

 

Heck, there's an achievement i hope I'll never get in PvP: the one that requires my team to destroy trebuchet. That one encourages a player to leave rotation, and in a close game - that can be all it takes to lose a match.

 

[Spoichiche.1290]

Funny how you point out "Community's Intelligence" when trying to give a general rule to pvp rotation that is completely stupid because any general rule to rotation is just stupid by design.

 

+1 ing a Bunker/Bruiser/Duelist/WhateverYouWannaCallThem is not a bad play. It is entirely dependant on your own build, your teammate's build, the opponent's build, the state of the node, the state of the game, and how the 1v1's going in the first place. Condi thieves can do very good +1 on a bunker chrono, a rev can do very good +1 on a druid, there are good 2v1 and there are bad 2v1. If an enemy holo is pushing my bunker chrono 1v1, there's no need to +1 because chrono should win this matchup. If my chrono is pushing against an enemy chrono on a capped node, then i'll definitely consider a +1 just to force a decap and then leave them to an eternal and boring 1v1 on a neutral node. Or i may +1 just to force a full cap if i know that my ally won't be easily decaped in a 1v1. Or sometimes, i may have no other choice but to try and make a play in a bad +1 and leave when i'll see a better opportunity elsewhere.

 

Rotations are a lot more complex than "don't +1 a bunker, thx".

[Legatus.3608]

> @"The Night Fox.6018" said:

> Try to convey that in teamchat in the most benign way possible.

>

> "Get the F off of far youre doing nothing there" is a little dramatic, and could make your ally more hard-headed.

>

> "The Night Fox, we need your support/dps mid ASAP" The language taps into what a player can offer if he rotates as opposed to the previous which denotes wasted effort. To call attention to failure only works in an understood relationship IE friends, family, work if done politely.

>

> Not saying there are no players who don't know some elements of the game, but I do know there is a lot of apathy and intentional smashing-head-against-a-tanky-build to spite fellow teammates that are responding with vitriol and hate-laced advice.

 

If only people understood stuff like this, they'd literally increase their win ratio by being less annoying cunts. It's like everybody wins if you're not stupid, but everyone has to be stupid all the time anyways. Sad.

[Euthymias.7984]

> @"Huskyboy.1053" said:

 

> What's really sad is that these builds are always on meta build sites because they're super popular. Everyone knows these builds. Yet time after time, someone always thinks to themself "Well I bet **I** can kill him **this** time.

 

This right here was what I said over and over when people whinge and cried about how "OP" druid was way back. It needed some shaving yes, but the fault lied just as much on people being stupid in dealing with that encounter as it did the the build itself. Its not the first time a tough bunker showing up on a side node made some dard tunnel-vision it because they WANT to kill it so badly, and it wont be the last. Then when they fail and throw the game over it, they'll come here and cry that the build's OP and needs to be nerfed out of the meta because they cannot get their high off of soloing a build that prioritizes survival above all else.

[Kageseigi.2150]

> @"The Night Fox.6018" said:

> Try to convey that in teamchat in the most benign way possible.

>

> "Get the F off of far youre doing nothing there" is a little dramatic, and could make your ally more hard-headed.

>

> "The Night Fox, we need your support/dps mid ASAP" The language taps into what a player can offer if he rotates as opposed to the previous which denotes wasted effort. To call attention to failure only works in an understood relationship IE friends, family, work if done politely.

>

> Not saying there are no players who don't know some elements of the game, but I do know there is a lot of apathy and intentional smashing-head-against-a-tanky-build to spite fellow teammates that are responding with vitriol and hate-laced advice.

 

Indeed, I attempt to do this...

 

"Focus Home and Mid, I'll work to keep Far decapped :-)"

"Fight on point please"

"Please don't leave Mid after we cap it"

 

I don't know how effective it is, though... as I usually end up having to ping-spam Mid on the map, haha! :-P

[sephiroth.4217]

misread what I quoted, delete.

[Dreddo.9865]

> @"Spoichiche.1290" said:

> Funny how you point out "Community's Intelligence" when trying to give a general rule to pvp rotation that is completely stupid because any general rule to rotation is just stupid by design.

You 're right but I believe his point is that a lot of people don't understand when to back off - they may not be able to hurt the bunker yet they will spend a lot of time feeding his heals. Have seen many times even 3 ppl dedicating themselves on such 'fights' for no result (leaving us 4v2 on the rest of the map).

[Huskyboy.1053]

> @"Spoichiche.1290" said:

> Funny how you point out "Community's Intelligence" when trying to give a general rule to pvp rotation that is completely stupid because any general rule to rotation is just stupid by design.

>

> +1 ing a Bunker/Bruiser/Duelist/WhateverYouWannaCallThem is not a bad play. It is entirely dependant on your own build, your teammate's build, the opponent's build, the state of the node, the state of the game, and how the 1v1's going in the first place. Condi thieves can do very good +1 on a bunker chrono, a rev can do very good +1 on a druid, there are good 2v1 and there are bad 2v1. If an enemy holo is pushing my bunker chrono 1v1, there's no need to +1 because chrono should win this matchup. If my chrono is pushing against an enemy chrono on a capped node, then i'll definitely consider a +1 just to force a decap and then leave them to an eternal and boring 1v1 on a neutral node. Or i may +1 just to force a full cap if i know that my ally won't be easily decaped in a 1v1. Or sometimes, i may have no other choice but to try and make a play in a bad +1 and leave when i'll see a better opportunity elsewhere.

>

> Rotations are a lot more complex than "don't +1 a bunker, thx".

 

Rotations are complex, but generally plussing a bunker is a bad idea. A condi thief can help down a chrono *if* the chrono is missing a lot of their CDs. If you plus early into the 1v1, you're still wasting time. The point of a plus is to win within 10 seconds, preferably 5, not to win at some point far off in the future. Also you're lumping bruiser builds like DH in with bunker builds, those are different. Yes you can plus against a meditrapper and win quickly in a way that you could not against Mender Druid, I never claimed otherwise.

[Chilli.2976]

I've made a lot of money from selling bananas to PvP players.